Yet Another Car Accident Post

LAnalytical Therapist on 16/11/2023 - 20:11

Hello Ozbargain,

I was involved in an accident today and wanted the opinion of all the Ozlawyers and Oztraffic cops in this wonderful forum.

To cut a long story short i was in the left hand lane of a 2 lane road approaching a round about, as i am approaching I see a black Prado enter from the right hand side which is a single lane road. So i begin to slow down as she has right of way, she sticks to the right hand lane so i accelerate and enter the round about on the left hand side, as i am exiting the round about she suddenly attempts to changes lanes and merges on top of me side swiping the rear of my car.

Who do you learned experts believe is at fault here? And before anyone asks, yes i have full comprehensive insurance and i'm not afraid to use it i just want some opinions.

I also have a side question related to this incident.

When we pulled over she was adamant that she had full right of way and that i was at fault, not even 2 minutes after we pullover her husband shows up in a seperate vehicle and is also claiming that i am at fault but that they are happy to let this go as the damage "Isn't even that bad, it'll buff out" (Hint, it won't buff out some of the scratches on my car go down to bare metal and plastic) Take a look at the attached photos and tell me why they would be willing to let this go when the damage is clearly worse on their vehicle.

MsPaint drawing is included as legally required in the Imgur link. https://imgur.com/a/K5yNrjX

Poll Options expired

  • 28
    You done goofed
  • 35
    I'm just here for yet another car crash post
  • 260
    She done goofed
Automotive

Comments

  • kalithreaver on 17/11/2023 - 14:51
    +2

    she is at fault as she merged into your lane after exiting roundabout without checking.

    rules say

    Turning right at roundaboutsHide
    If you want to turn right at a roundabout you must:

    indicate that you want to turn right as you approach the roundabout, and
    if practicable, indicate left just before the exiting the roundabout, keeping your indicator on until you have left the roundabout.
    ——————-If there is more than one lane going into the roundabout, you must approach in the right lane and stay in that lane.——————————-

  • Hangryuman on 17/11/2023 - 17:07

    bonus points for "Oof Ouch Owie" !

  • Hangryuman on 17/11/2023 - 17:15

    'This took hours to do in Photoshop…'

    yes but have the red and yellow lines been certified by the authorities … ?

    I'm guessing when you accelerated, it was from behind and in the other driver's blind spot, when they were looking to the right to go around the roundabout, so they hadn't noticed you and weren't aware that you were alongside accelerating past them when they went to change into the left lane.

    in which case, you didn't use my defensive driving advice to 'assume everyone else is trying to kill you - and your job is to avoid them'

    in this case, assume put scratch marks on the red and black vehicles … have a nice day now y'all !

  • Muzeeb on 17/11/2023 - 17:47
    +4

    Why has no one mentioned that the accident happened on Glasscock Road? Lol.

    • Analytical Therapist on 17/11/2023 - 18:20
      +2

      Finally lol, it only took 24 hours for someone to mention it and it ends up being Muzeeb haha

  • Drakesy on 17/11/2023 - 18:05

    Prado Driver Cooked it
    Lol

  • SpendLess on 17/11/2023 - 18:18

    Sounds like Prado at fault if I'm reading this right. If it's a 2 lane round about then she should have given way. I always think of it as once you are on the round a bout then think of it as the same rules as if your were on a normal straight 2 lane road.

  • vengeance88 on 17/11/2023 - 19:34

    Does your yellow line at 12 oclock cover lane markings (similar to what's visible at 6 oclock)?

    If the lane markings are faded, from her perspective it was a 1 lane roundabout until she exits and unfortunately chooses the left lane.

    • Analytical Therapist on 17/11/2023 - 19:34
      +1

      Lane markings have been recently repainted, they are super obvious in person.

      • vengeance88 on 18/11/2023 - 12:11

        Had a look at google streetview. I'm not excusing her but if the lane wasn't painted on the roundabout for years and she wanted to turn left at the end of Glasscocks, she might be used to veering into the left lane. All complicated because you were travelling at different speeds.

        https://maps.app.goo.gl/4HFUN8FCQNCKNxYYA

        • Hangryuman on 19/11/2023 - 21:02

          thanks - yeah I see there are two lanes separated by a traffic island just before they merge

          if I wanted to bash Prados I'd say their poor visibility to the left over the high front didn't allow the driver to see the red car, and/or the driver was just in a big car because they knew they were a bad driver and wanted the most protection in their next crash ("I'm a busy mum distracted with kids - on the phone …")

          if I wanted to apportion blame I'd guess the red car accelerated strongly assuming as they got ahead of the other vehicle that the black Prado would let them go first as the lanes merged, but they didn't quite get clear of the Prado when … 'crash!'

          OMG how did that happen ? because the Prado driver wasn't paying attention and didn't notice the red car before it accelerated past them in the now-merging left lane.

          as I saw the Google Streetview, it wasn't one lane merging into and having to give way to vehicles in a continuing marked lane, it was both lanes merging together into one lane - the dotted line finishing in the middle - so BOTH cars should have taken care - I'm guessing the red car assumed they were ahead and were good, until … 'crash'

          so yeah - he said, she said - claim it on insurance and done.

  • anhtarus on 17/11/2023 - 20:23
    +1

    Prado at fault.

    1) hits you from BEHIND i.e. you got rear ended.
    2) they changed lane in a careless manner

    Ofcourse, they can argue YOU were the one who changed lane in a careless manner. Hence dashcam is so important.

    Double laned roundabouts seems to be especially tricky and confusing for drivers who have no clue how to drive in them it seems.

    I thought the golden rule in double laned rounabouts is : stick to ya effin lane!

    And if you wanna change lane whilst in a roundabout (god knows why) or on any double laned road, aren't you suppose to do so in a safe manner anyway?

    Dashcam footage would have been useful to see how fast Prado was going and where it was in relation to when Red car entered the roundabout. If red car entered rounabout just as Prado was turning infront of it, I can see how Prado might have missed its own blind spot on passenger side. Still doesn't excuse Prado driver for lane changing without checking properly.

    • basketballfreak6 on 18/11/2023 - 14:43

      "Double laned roundabouts seems to be especially tricky and confusing for drivers who have no clue how to drive in them it seems."

      100% this. I've had drivers get mad at me because I entered a roundabout from the outer lane while they were coming from a right turn only inner lane.

      I've also seen plenty of times drivers again in the said right turn only inner lane exit straight.

  • mangoman on 18/11/2023 - 05:35

    Im not an expert.
    You might want to start by downloading a copy of the road rules for your state (as they may differ from state to state).

    Personally i would never change lanes in a roundabout (its very dangerous). I do believe its legal but normal rules apply for changing lanes (ie you must giveway when changing lanes, just like on a straight road).

    Where you have indicated the crash appears to have occurred outside of the roundabout. But either way she has to change lanes to get that point which i would interpret to mean she must giveway to any car in the lane which is trying to change into (regardless of whether its in the roundabout or outside of it).

    As she is in the right lane in the roundabout she should exit into the right lane.

    She would have right of way in and to exit the roundabout but not to change lanes.

    • mangoman on 18/11/2023 - 05:40

      I wonder how rules for indicating to change lanes would also work.

      She would need to have her left indicator on to the leave a multi lane roundabout. Which means its not possible to give the required warning of a lane change with the indicator as its already active.

      • Ughhh on 18/11/2023 - 10:31

        Doesn't matter. Indicators purpose is to indicate, doesn't mean others have to brake and give way to you (when both are already in the round about).

  • Piranha2004 on 18/11/2023 - 09:31

    Ah yes the old Glasscocks Rd roundabout. What a schmozzle of an intersection.

  • hippieyippie on 18/11/2023 - 09:46
    +1

    From vicroads,

    Turning right at roundabouts
    If you want to turn right at a roundabout you must:

    indicate that you want to turn right as you approach the roundabout, and
    if practicable, indicate left just before the exiting the roundabout, keeping your indicator on until you have left the roundabout.
    If there is more than one lane going into the roundabout, you must approach in the right lane and stay in that lane.

    Looks like she did not stay in the right lane and changed to the left lane without giving way to the vehicles already on the left lane. The law is 100% in your favor if you can prove it.

  • ribze1 on 18/11/2023 - 10:20

    Good MS diagram, open and shut. She's in the fault.

  • grr1701 on 18/11/2023 - 11:57

    Damn!! Until I saw your diagram, I thought YOU were at fault. Now it's obvious SHE was; but I can't change my vote. Take one from you and add it to her :-)

    • Ughhh on 18/11/2023 - 18:35

      Ops doing himself a disservice by confusing people with stuff about entering round about, when it is irrelevant as Collision occurred after round about.

  • unleadedFuel on 18/11/2023 - 13:35

    This in re. to the comments about the husband claiming it is OP's fault.

    As it was pointed out to me by a very helpful claims lady at RACV: You've got comprehensive insurance, let the insurance people deal with. No need to engage and/or argue with anyone after an accident especially one you are not at fault. Just get their details and pass it on to your insurance.

  • Saver Scott on 18/11/2023 - 14:56
    +1

    She changed into the lane you were in and crashed into you, therefore, it’s her fault. Plain and simple.

    Unless she was indicating to change lanes and was in the process of doing so when you pulled out in front of her - then it’s your fault.

  • figarow on 18/11/2023 - 15:14
    +1

    That round about is messed up, half of it is two lanes and the other half one lane? What am I missing here?

    • PopCounty on 18/11/2023 - 16:42
      +1

      Yeah. And if the woman wanted to go right … She’s entering n turning right from single lane. Don’t know how could OP then be coming along until she’s turned right and enters either of lane.
      Fact that she rear ended OP, it seems more of fault of OP to assume the woman would turn right and would stick to right lane. Effectively going straight when the woman was Turing right. Meaning OP didn’t give way properly to the lady.

      God knows. But if roundabout was full 2 lanes all direction, the lady was at fault. Except this is not the case hence the OP.

      • figarow on 18/11/2023 - 19:09

        I think you are right

      • ozfool on 19/11/2023 - 11:37

        And OP must have been fanging it to have got ahead of her

    • iLLUME on 18/11/2023 - 20:54

      I agree what a shite roundabout, there should be an option in the poll saying vic roads is at fault!

  • TiredKitty78 on 18/11/2023 - 17:23
    +1

    I'm glad that picture was included. Because that's alotta words for 'having just exited a roundabout a car attempted to change lanes - merging into mine - and hit my car'.

    They are at fault.

  • lilyesp on 18/11/2023 - 19:34

    Hope you can use the Ms diagram as evidence in court.

  • Cave Fire on 18/11/2023 - 20:36

    Yeah, minimal damage for what it should have been. Maybe check alignment + any electronics in that area. Unless there's a reason they changed lanes, should be okay.

  • fredk1000 on 18/11/2023 - 22:39

    Prado strikes again;

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/810396

    Stay away from those Prados it seems.

  • Mantsa on 19/11/2023 - 07:55

    Accident happened after both cars left roundabout.
    So, no point discussing who entered when and who's mistake in entering.

    All we have to know is when the yellow line car hit there other one during coming to left lane from right…. Whose car is front
    Did the yellow line car hit right side back of other car then yellow line car is fault.

    Keep a dashcam bro

  • GordonD on 19/11/2023 - 09:13
    +1

    I can understand why someone who entered from a dual lane road into what appears to them to be a dual lane roundabout would think its OK to overtake another vehicle on the left in the roundabout, and consider they were in the right when a collision occurred. I can also understand why someone who entered from a single lane road into what appears to them to be a single lane roundabout would not be expecting someone to pass them at a higher speed on the left in the roundabout.

    The roundabout appeared to alternate in each quadrant between being two lanes and one, the lane markings at the points of transition are non-existent meaning there is no guidance where on the road a vehicle in the roundabout should position themselves, and what road markings there are are poorly maintained.

    The fact is though that at the point the OP says the collision occurred there are lane lines, and if it occurred there the car that was changing lanes had an obligation to do it safely. The other driver could simply say though that it occurred slightly earlier and she was entitled to be doing what she was doing - exiting the roundabout in the left lane - when the lane markings were as poorly thought through and maintained as there clearly were.

    The cause of this collision wasn't the drivers, they saw the scene from two different perspectives that entitled them each to do what they did, it was poor road marking and maintenance.

  • UFO on 19/11/2023 - 12:56
    +1

    Roundabout/Give Way is irrelevant as collision (going by Ms Paint diagram) has occurred AFTER the roundabout. She has changed lanes unsafely, and you were entitled to be in your lane. 100% per fault.

    She is allowed to change lanes coming out of a roundabout, but only with indicator, and only when safe to do so (doesn't have right of way to do it).

    Show your insurer that Ms Paint diagram and she's toast (unless she tells them you hit her IN the roundabout because you didn't give way on the corner).

    • hasher22 on 19/11/2023 - 15:51

      I agree, based on the diagram, the round-a-bout was irrelevant as they both exited.

      Either way she was in the wrong or miscalculated.

  • hasher22 on 19/11/2023 - 15:50
    +1

    How do you even merge and hit the car in-front of you, round-a-bout or not.

    She's 100% at fault.

    The only time I can see a merger hitting the car in-front if:
    1 - The merger was looking at their blind spot and at the same time sped up and hit you
    2 - The car in-front suddenly slowed down.

  • Eeples on 21/11/2023 - 19:45
    +1

    So OP you accelerated around the Prado on its left… and the Prado didn't see you when the Prado changed lanes (on exiting) which they didn't have to do.

    An insurance company might say you contributed to the accident because you were travelling too fast through the roundabout. (Evidenced by you being behind the Prado on your entry then in front of it on your exit).

    For what it's worth I think you were not as safe as you could have been. ie. an experienced driver might expected a stupid early lane change by some idiot driver on exiting the roundabout….. and from your description you may have been in her blind spot from the moment you entered the roundabout to the moment you were hit.

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