Stuck with Rubbish nbn Fixed Wireless - 5G Is Terrible Indoors Will an Antenna Help?

richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:22
Last edited 27/11/2023 - 14:34 by 1 other user

Hi,
I live in QLD in a newish development in Logan that's currently supplied by a NBN Fixed wireless antenna. Most of the time it's fine for everyday use but for video calls and uploading and downloading files it's pretty rubbish.

Currently on 5G with Telstra and even that is pretty unreliable, I can get 1 of 5G indoors and 2 bars of 4G, both of which are not usable for anything except calls or texts as it's not constant. Haven't tried the Optus network yet but am considering just getting a cheap SIM just to test.

There's a possibility of more WFH in my job so I'm just looking at options for a more reliable solution.

I was looking at the Netgear 5G modem routers and there's a bit of a price difference between the models. What's the main difference and would I get an improvement on any if connecting them to an antenna (whether that's indoors or outdoors)?

Internet Broadband Fixed Wireless nbn

Comments

  • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 11:27
    +2

    If your phone is 5G, perhaps walk around the place doing 'speedtest' (via app or web) to see if there is stronger signals at various locations in your house. If you get all the same results around the house and/or location, then an external intenna may not be an improvement as it could be an overall network issue.

    • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:30
      -4

      Sorry but your post doesn't contain a lot of helpful information and is a bit false in some parts.

      If your phone is 5G, perhaps walk around the place doing 'speedtest' (via app or web) to see if there is stronger signals at various locations in your house.

      They said the get 1 bar inside…..

      If you get all the same results around the house and/or location, then an external intenna may not be an improvement as it could be an overall network issue.

      But if they get 5 bars outside, an external antenna will help.

      • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 11:33
        +2

        If they get 1 bar inside, is it at only that one location? - It's unknown if it's at the centre of their house or (say) near to a window? hence, advising to check at other locations around the house.

        They haven't said they get 5 bars outside, such that my advice was to test it. Indeed if they do get more bars outside and/or at other places within their household, then relocating the modem and/or an external antenna may assist. If they still get 1 bar outside of the home, then an external antenna is unlikely to assist.

        • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:43
          -1

          If they get 1 bar inside, is it at only that one location? - It's unknown if it's at the centre of their house or (say) near to a window? hence, advising to check at other locations around the house.

          I would assume they are either getting 1 bar in a specific spot and 0 bars elsewhere or 1 bar all around. The OP sounds switched on, so I am sure they have tried and investigated.

          If they still get 1 bar outside of the home, then an external antenna is unlikely to assist.

          Not true. If they get 1 bar outside on a phone then a directional antenna like this white one will definitely help and be able to get them maybe 5 bars. They could even test it on a roof and see if they get more bars on their phone. In the install I did, I got 2 to 3 bars on the roof standing their with my phone. So by adding a higher gain directional antenna, then you are likely to get 5 bars.

          Source - Me doing an install where they had 0 bars inside the house and maybe 1 bar outside plus having radio frequency knowledge and understanding

          • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 12:13

            @geekcohen: If there's any point in clarifying, I've interpreted the OP's mentioning of external antenna as one they're connecting directly to their modem (via the antenna port) albeit indoors, that is, it's not using the modem's internal antenna. Your mentioned 'external/roof' antenna is clearly a different interpretation to mine of the OPs information.

            • ESEMCE on 27/11/2023 - 12:20
              +1

              @Porker: He understands that.
              What you are unaware of is that External Antenna can not only be elevated to get a better (more direct) signal, but they can also Amplify the collected signal, because they can be designed to be Directional, wheras the internal antenna in the modem/phone must be Omnidirectional.
              As such, an External antenna can pick up excellent signal even in an environment where a modem/phone is unable to achieve any.

            • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 12:23
              +1

              @Porker:

              Your mentioned 'external/roof' antenna is clearly a different interpretation to mine of the OPs information.

              If you are thinking about something like this it wouldn't help much.

              • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 12:25
                +1

                @geekcohen: Yes, that's what I was originally trying to inform OP based on one interpretation of their information. Hence, suggesting they could try doing some tests if not already to see if it's a network issue or house issue at the least.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:44

      It's not great outside either, the reception picks up about 50m down the road on the other side of the street. Though it is more usable outside in the back yard. Like I could watch youtube or TT without buffering but couldn't upload a large file to google drive for example.

      • ESEMCE on 27/11/2023 - 11:51
        +2

        What is reception like on your roof where an antenna would be mounted?

        A directional Antenna WILL improve signal strength, but they're not cheap.

        Also have you tried restricting the modem to 4G only (if that's possible). Could get better signal from a closer/better positioned tower.

        • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:53
          +1

          Yeah tried that, it's slightly better.

          • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:55
            +2

            @richadam: Slightly better on your phone is good, because it means a direction antenna will improve your signal.

      • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 11:54
        +1

        Perhaps consider ISP change as you've indicated..??

        I recently moved to Telstra from Optus as result of the network crash. For my area, Telstra is much much worse than Optus for internet speeds. I get that Telstra prides itself on Australia's largest network, but within my main use areas in Melbourne, Optus is much faster and reliable. I suspect Telstra may be able to provide wider coverage, but not necessarily at their top speeds.

        • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:59

          Optus is much faster and reliable

          Yeah, because everyone bailed like you have due to the outage. It was probably faster because everything is linked together where Telstra have their stuff segmented, so might be a bit slower. But if there is an outage with Telstra at least isn't a national outage like Optus had.

          Optus is much faster and reliable

          Optus and reliable in the same sentence after the recent events? Yeah, nice.

          • Porker on 27/11/2023 - 12:03
            +2

            @geekcohen: Have I offended you or something @geekcohen? - seems like you've got issue.

            For my experience, yes, Optus provided fast and consistent speeds for my location, as example, always around 70-80mbs. It was reliable in so much as I could visit some of the larger shopping centres and still be connected to their service. With Telstra, it ranges from about 2 or 3 mbs for the same location to no connection within the same shopping centres. There's only been one exception that had 300mbs.

            Either way, say what you will. I'm merely trying to assist the OP. If you have issue, so be it.

            • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 12:14

              @Porker:

              @geekcohen: Have I offended you or something @geekcohen? - seems like you've got issue.

              No, there is no problem.

        • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 12:03
          +1

          Yes this was my next step. I'm not a fan of Optus because I was a part of the data breach however perhaps a carrier using their network might be better.

  • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:36

    Look a Cel-Fi Unit which is a phone repeater. If you are getting 1 bar outside that is something especially for a phone. It means an outside antenna elevated on a roof pointing in the direction of the closest tower is going to help.

    5G Cel-Fi Units are a bit pricy, but you could go a 4G Cel-Fi which is cheaper (around the $1300 mark for a kit).

    I did a Cel-Fi Installation where they had 0 bars inside and 1 bar outside but had to be in a specific spot to use data and have a reliable phone call. Now, with a Cel-Fi on their roof (the white antenna) they have 5 bars inside and have no problems inside. Combined this with a Starlink and they have no phone issues or internet problems.

    Alternatively, for internet, look at Starlink. The speeds are very good.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:41
      +1

      Didn't think of a repeater for mobile service. Though this is a rental so I don't think it would have permission to attach anything to the roof.

      Mobile is more more usable outside (not in the backyard but more like a few houses down the road).

      • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:45
        +1

        Though this is a rental so I don't think it would have permission to attach anything to the roof.

        If it is a rental, you could still go down a Cel-Fi path and just use a larger pole off the side of the house or maybe off the TV antenna (if there is one). I used to have VHF/UHF two way radio on top of the TV antenna pole in a rental I was in and ran the cable in through a window.

        Plenty of options to secure a temporary pole to the side of a house. Might need to be a 4m, 5m or 6m pole but there are options.

        Even a rental, you could do a Starlink solution, just have to run cables in via windows. I've done cable runs in via windows in plenty of the rentals I have lived in. Never had a problem with Real Estate Agents.

  • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:45

    The other thing with the NBN Fixed Wireless is that it's only got 2 bars out of 3. Perhaps there's a way to improve the signal there to get better Fixed Wireless speeds? I didn't want to get up on the roof an move the antenna just to have it worse.

    • Twix on 27/11/2023 - 12:03

      You have to wait until the nbn FW upgrades are completed. Most likely mid-late 2024.
      https://www.nbnco.com.au/residential/upgrades/more-fixed-wir…

      Try out Starlink.

    • Paul Atreides on 27/11/2023 - 16:58

      i've got 2/3 bars on my fixed wireless and it's fine wfh.

      previously I was using this setup: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/11944490/redir

    • Ramrunner on 28/11/2023 - 16:54

      Bars don't matter.

      Had about 75Mbps with the older style antenna. 3 bars
      Getting 82Mbps with newer style antenna. 2 bars.

      I miss the all green LEDs because I'm OCD but the speeds are actually better with the newer antenna showing less bars.

      Make sure when measuring your speed for maximum speed and diagnosing where speed issues lie, you plug ONLY your computer directly in the wall. If the speed is slow then, yes, it's the ISP OR NBN.

      You can't always tell behind your router, specially if it's a nasty cheap one.

      If your ISP publishes their CVC graphs (such as ABB here: https://www.aussiebroadband.com.au/network/cvc-graphs/), then you can see whether it's an ISP or NBN issue.

      If it's ISP, switch.

      If it's NBN you can request to be put onto another cell but you have to do that via the ISP. You have to prove slow speeds.

      Failing that find some good WISPs in your area (here in Perth we can use Node1 or Pentanet).

      Failing that Starlink is indeed the go. Only reason I have it last is that it's expensive for simple WFH needs but maybe your employer will wear some of the costs I don't know.

      • richadam on 28/11/2023 - 17:12

        I'm with Tangerine Fixed Wireless. Can't seem to see any CVC graphs for them.

        Wasn't sure if different ISPs mattered much these days, would moving actually help?

        • Ramrunner on 28/11/2023 - 18:07

          Reviews on Tangerine are mixed. On whirlpool there seems to be a lot of posts about congestion in QLD but on most of the review sites generally people seems to be quite positive on Tangerine.

          I've never tried them - so I can't give advice on whether or not they are good in your area.

          The backhaul capacity in any form is provided by NBNCo.

          The providers simply buy capacity (CVC) off them to split between their customers.

          PROVIDED NBNCo can service connections to 100% capacity, it comes down to the ISP as to whether they've purchased enough CVC to cater for all their clients using that node.

          Without a graph there's simply no way of knowing. I can only suggest you chat to your neighbours (ON FW) and see what speeds they are getting and who their providers are.

          If the provider has not bought enough capacity, yes everybody on that provider and that node will not get their advertised speed. But if your neighbour is with ISP X and getting double what you are on ISP Y it's a safe bet it's an ISP issue.

          In short - although NBN provides the backhaul network, moving ISPs can DEFINITELY help IF they are not providing enough capacity for their clients (it's a money issue additional CVC means additional $$$ for them to have to spend).

          But I can't say they have or they haven't without seeing a graph. aussie broadband , superloop and launtel all provide that data. Ones who don't MAY have something to hide. Maybe you can email them for the graph?

  • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 11:47
    +2

    The other thing with the NBN Fixed Wireless is that it's only got 2 bars out of 3. Perhaps there's a way to improve the signal there to get better Fixed Wireless speeds? I didn't want to get up on the roof an move the antenna just to have it worse.

    I wouldn't do that. Not technically allowed to tamper with NBN equipment. Plus, it would've been installed by an NBN Tech (who hopefully knew what they were doing) and it should be set to where it needs to point too.

    • ESEMCE on 27/11/2023 - 11:53
      +2

      Agreed, the only thing you could possibly do is trim back trees that are blocking a direct line of sight to the tower.
      Strictly speaking they'd have to be trees on your property of course.

      • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:56

        My thought was that there's some trees near the tower itself that could have grown since the installation.
        There's nothing on my property that would hinder the line of sight.

        • geekcohen on 27/11/2023 - 12:01

          My thought was that there's some trees near the tower itself that could have grown since the installation.

          Unlikely and even if there was, moving the antenna at your end isn't going to improve your things.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 11:57

      Yeah I was under that impression as well.

  • apple2016 on 27/11/2023 - 12:22

    I was looking at the Netgear 5G modem routers

    I would suggest looking at higher grade 5G modems which support external antennas (peplink, cradlepoint etc). They are expensive but should provide you will a stable highspeed internet.

    alternative is starlink.

  • phila63 on 27/11/2023 - 12:41
    +3

    Find out what towers are near to you using https://www.rfnsa.com.au Enter your address and click on "near address".
    Go to the side of the house where the nearest Telstra 5G tower is and do some signal tests inside the house and outside. That side of the house "should" have minimal obstructions and get the best signal. If you get a bar or 2 outside, get on the roof and see if you can get more - if yes, then a pole with antenna on the outside of the house cabled through a window as suggested earlier is the way to go. Connect the cable to a Celfi or get a "modem" which has external antenna connections.

    If really keen, grab some cheap SIMs for other carriers and do the same tests.

    A handy reference is https://www.telcoantennas.com.au/buying/smart-guides/guide-t…

    The "Aus Phone Towers" app for Android and iOS is also useful for finding tower locations for each provider. Can be con figured to show coverage prediction/modelling based on antenna heights and patterns.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 13:28

      Thanks for that link, it shows that the closest tower only has 850MHz and 3500MHz frequencies for Telstra and 700MHz, 900MHz, 2100MHz, 2300MHz, 3500MHz for Optus, would the imply that Optus may have better coverage? Or is that just standard for Telstra?

      I know that another carriers SIM would answer that question for me, but I'm working on the other side of town so I can't exactly answer that question yet.

      • ESEMCE on 27/11/2023 - 13:37

        Note higher Frequency = lower range but faster data at the same signal strength.

        850MHz is Telstra 3G (it'll switch to 4/5G in June) and the 3500MHz is the 5G, so apparently no 4G on that tower at the moment!

        Optus has 3500MHz 5G, 700MHz and 2300MHz 4G, and 900/2100 3G

        So yeah, Optus might be better on 4G, especially the 2300MHz which is usually offered with Channel bonding (I can't recall the official terminology)

        • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 13:42

          Sorry, that wasn't the full list for frequencies, only that in the 5G section,

          Here's the full list of frequencies:

          Telstra
          3G
          850MHz
          4GX
          700MHz, 1800MHz, 2100MHz, 2600MHz
          5G
          850MHz, 3500MHz

          Optus
          3G
          900MHz, 2100MHz
          4G
          700MHz, 900MHz, 2100MHz
          4G+
          1800MHz, 2300MHz, 2600MHz
          5G
          700MHz, 900MHz, 2100MHz, 2300MHz, 3500MHz

          Vodafone
          3G
          900MHz
          4G
          700MHz, 850MHz, 1800MHz, 2100MHz
          5G
          700MHz, 850MHz, 1800MHz, 2100MHz, 3500MHz

          NBN
          4G
          3550MHz

          • ESEMCE on 27/11/2023 - 13:51
            +1

            @richadam: So definitely worth check to see if you can lock down the 5G modem to only connect to the 5G 850MHz signal, and/or lock it down to only connect to 4G.
            That way it'll be connecting to stronger signal.

            I'm not sure if Telstra allows you to do that with their modem though.

          • phila63 on 27/11/2023 - 14:08

            @richadam: Saw this after I posted my reply.

            Depending on what speed and reliability you want to achieve, it might be worthwhile aiming for 4G.
            At my location, I can get 5G and 4G. 5G gives me speed but it's inconsistent whilst the 4G is far more consistent in speed and much more reliable.

            As E SEMCE mentions, lock the modem to 4G and if you can, lock the band.

            Some time back, I used Teltonika RUT240 which are only 4G but from memory you can lock technology and band. They performed very well and no failures at any of the sites over 2 years that I knew of.

      • phila63 on 27/11/2023 - 13:56

        My "guess" would be the Telstra site is running 5G only and likely would be a new site to provide 5G fill-in coverage for the locality. 4G would be coming off other towers. Might be worth looking at the Telstra 4G towers.
        Telstra have many different combinations of bands and technologies at their sites so I doubt there is a standard.
        Optus look to have all their services on the tower i.e. 3G, 4G and 5G

        Coverage may be similar, however it will be determined by the direction of the antenna sectors and their height. For that detail, you need to go to the ACMA site and get the details of the antenna azimuths, beam width, height and see what fits best for your location - getting technical!

        PM me and I'll see what I can help with

  • AustriaBargain on 27/11/2023 - 13:00
    -1

    You should have voted for the ALP. And if you did, then you should have joined the party and encouraged others to vote for them too. Your new development would have had FTTH.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 13:15
      +2

      Implying that I didn't, what an odd comment.

      • AustriaBargain on 27/11/2023 - 13:29

        Well it is the outcome of that election that determined what kind of internet you have right now.

      • Protractor on 27/11/2023 - 14:56

        Well QLD is a very right wing state federally.It must be the red neck politician capital of the southern hemisphere, and someone must have voted for them

        • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 14:57
          +1

          Yes but it doesn't help the situation now, so it's kind of irrelevant…

          • Protractor on 27/11/2023 - 16:13

            @richadam: Free hint and opportunity to note what not to do though.They also cost us 40 years on doing SFA about climate change.

  • kanmen on 27/11/2023 - 14:19
    -1

    If you bought brand new, check your Contract of Sale for what telecommunications they should have provided you with- as a side note.

    • CodeXD on 27/11/2023 - 14:24
      +1

      OP said it is a rental.

    • richadam on 27/11/2023 - 14:26
      +2

      Rental but building somewhere else that will have Opticomm connected.

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