Car Stolen, Alarm Didn't Go off. How to Prevent? Also, How to Defend Home in Australia?

900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:12
Last edited 02/12/2023 - 15:13

Had my 2010 Xtrail get stolen out of my driveway in Hobart last night, bit of a shame. 4 weeks living here so it was a nice welcome to the state.
It had a pretty touchy alarm, like if I mucked up locking it and using the door it would go off, so definitely worked. How did they manage to steal it without breaking any glass or setting off the alarm? I still have the keys.

Cops said another 2010 Nissan (Navara) was stolen nearby the night before. Thinking maybe there might exist an electronic tool that beats them? Kinda want to learn more since I'm stuck in this house for 12 months more and figure it's a target now (dark, dirt laneway).

So, what's the Ozbargain countermeasure if alarms apparently are worthless? Samsung/apple tags? GPS? Bikies?

Second question, how are we supposed to protect family in this country? Genuinely looking for advice here. I work away from home and the police recommended a cricket bat for my now scared partner. She's like 4 foot, it won't do a thing. They've even banned pepper spray which is about the only 'weapon' that can't be used without all parties being messed up, surely making it the ultimate defence.
All cameras are going to do is let me watch it happen, if the worst arises.

Feels very frustrating when the recommended way to defend your family is to wait for them to be assaulted and then lodge a police report. I love Australia but it feels lousy being both nanny-stated and unprotected.
I can buy a new car but you can't undo the effects of a genuine home-invasion, which is now a somewhat warranted concern.

Automotive

Comments

        • 900dollaridoos on 03/12/2023 - 23:28
          +1

          I know I was flaming the tae kwon do guy as well but if my gf learns rogan's spinning back kick I'm sleeping like a baby when working away from home haha

          • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 14:21

            @900dollaridoos: It would help if she was male and 180lbs of muscle of course

          • Kangal on 04/12/2023 - 21:53

            @900dollaridoos: Maybe you need to break up with your gf, and find yourself a nice strong man-partner instead 😂

        • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 18:03
          -1

          Oh ye Joe Rogan, the scum bag who thinks Elon Musk is a hero when the truth is he is a scum bag of the worst kind, just ask his ex-wives.

          • Gnostikos on 04/12/2023 - 18:20
            +1

            @CowFrogHorse: You need to get that politically-triggered Tourettes under control buddy, you've been on a losing streak this entire thread spewing some hardcore verbal diarrhoea and lame, woke talking points lifted straight from Vice/Vox/Salon whenever one of your trigger words is used.

            • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 18:35
              -3

              @Gnostikos: WOW.

              You cant actually address my points so you demonstrate your high level intellect by calling me names.

              How many years of uni did you take to write like that ?

              Can i use those skills in a professional manner like brain surgery ?

              • Gnostikos on 04/12/2023 - 18:45

                @CowFrogHorse:

                You cant actually address my points so you demonstrate your high level intellect by calling me names.

                What points?

                "wAAAAhhhhh gUnS R bAddddddd!!!11!"
                or
                "aMeRiCa bAAAAddddd!!1!"?

                Does your username refer to all of the animals that all have a higher IQ than yourself?

                • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 19:01
                  +2

                  @Gnostikos: Hypocrite.

                  Go work for Musk at a Tesla factory, and after a year, come back and tell us how much you love him.

                  • Gnostikos on 04/12/2023 - 19:11

                    @CowFrogHorse: I don't give a sh*t about Elon Musk, I just know that you're spouting even more BS than he does in this thread.

                    • CowFrogHorse on 06/12/2023 - 20:59

                      @Gnostikos: What BS have i said here ?

                      When Musk took over Twitter he wanted everyone to basically move into the Twitter HQ and work double the hours.

                      Thats a fact.

                      Do you want to live in conditions where you are owned by the company and can basically enver go home, btecause thats thelife Musk wants. He wants to own his employees just like his family owned blacks in South Africa. You can take the man out of South Africa, but given his background and wealth you can be sure he his past there is not one to be proud of.

                      Yeh you dont love musk and yet you stood up as his champion a few comments above….

      • Drakesy on 04/12/2023 - 17:03

        I think the only martial art that pips it in uselessness in everyday life is Brazilian ju jitsu.

        Nothing like rolling around on a floor telling your enemy to mount you!

        • Gnostikos on 04/12/2023 - 17:52

          F**k me, the Bullshido is strong with this thread.

          Nothing like rolling around on a floor telling your enemy to mount you!

          You know you can use BJJ offensively and take people down to submit them as well instead of pulling guard on an opponent? Let's see how useless it is when someone sweeps your legs, mounts you and chokes you unconscious/snaps a bone while you literally flail around like a fish out of water.

          BJJ is about a million times more useful than TKD and one of the best singular martial art disciplines currently practiced. Modern MMA was largely founded because of the Gracie family's legendary status for 80 years and BJJ's wildly unparalleled success against every other martial art it encountered until training camps figured out how to mix BJJ with other styles to overcome it.

          Pound-for-pound, blow-for-blow BJJ is the most bang-for-your-buck, one-size-fits-all, broad appeal martial art that most people could learn which is both realistic and applicable to a hell of a lot of self-defence scenarios.

          You and zeggie really should start your own Steven Seagal-approved McDojo where you fight off attackers that are running at you full speed while preparing to throw themselves to the ground.

    • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 20:55
      -1

      Wow someone thinks they are hero because they have been wtching too many American movies.

      Facts are most people dont have the courage in these situations. Even gun owning hero america are actually cowards, dont believe me, 99 out of 100 gun massacres end with the police of sucide, none of the gun owning heros are anywhere to be seen. Heres another, remember 9/11 again Americans were no where to be seen when trying to stop the hijackers.

      Your advice will most likely only result in the woman getting raped or murdered or serious hurt even if she is a tae kwon do expert. Secondly whats most likely to happen with the pepper spray is the male invader will use it against her.

      Hey dont believe, go ask your local police station, they wont be giving your hero advice.

      • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 14:30
        -1

        You bring up 9/11, but famously Flight 93 was taken back by passengers and crashed into a field instead of a populated area like the hijackers had intended. Also the situation of being on an airborne aircraft is a lot more difficult to deal with that an unmoving house that isn't travelling at hundreds of kilometres per hour.

        • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:01

          Oz: You bring up 9/11, but famously Flight 93 was taken back by passengers and crashed into a field instead of a populated area

          cow: That story is complete fiction. There was no communication between 93 and any ground station of any authority. We have no idea what happened on board, all we know is they crashed. Secondly If they did take control of the 93 cockpit the heroes would have radioed the ground, but they didnt.

          Read the story now here does it actually say a pax called somebody on the ground to say they had taken the plane back. In a court of law you need actual proof, there is ZERO proof that the pax took the plane back, because like i said they would have killed the hijackers, and they would have at least tried to turn away and lane the plane anywhere. Most people dont want to die for any noble reason, they would have tried to land the plane somewhere.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

          There is disagreement among some family members of the passengers and the investigative officials as to whether the passengers managed to breach the cockpit or even break the cockpit door. The 9/11 Commission Report concluded that "the hijackers remained at the controls but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them".[32] Many of the passengers' family members, having heard the audio recordings, believe the passengers breached the cockpit[83] and killed at least one of the hijackers guarding the cockpit door; some interpreted the audio as suggesting that the passengers and hijackers struggled for control of the yoke.[85][86

          The other 3 planes were completely hijacked and at no stage did any heroes try and take the planes back at all.

          So 4 dead planes, over a thousand people, zero heroes… i wouldnt call that a good example of heroes, not even 1 in 1000+.

          Stop talking bullshit - the reality is they were scared and all 4 planes died, there was no heroic fight back etc.

  • thatonethere on 02/12/2023 - 15:33
    +3

    The old Nissans have pretty basic keyless entry. If you get it back you may want to disable it - or install a hard to find button immobiliser.

    You can also buy speaker disabled air tags. But ideally you dont want it stolen.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:34

      hard to find button immobiliser

      I like this, definitely going to investigate.

      • Kangal on 04/12/2023 - 22:03

        I would suggest an engine immobilizer, and have the button somewhere that you can reach and press each time you're getting into the car. The thing is, it much be invisible.

        I saw one guy that out the switch inside the gear shifter. I would suggest the driver's side hand holder could house a hidden button.

        Another suggestion is to buy some Apple AirTags. Maybe put one in the glove box, so it's easy for the thieves to find. But a second one hidden somewhere like in the boot or engine bay.

        Sucks to hear about your predicament. Had my 2015 Navara stolen in front of my house a month ago, it had a couple thousand dollars worth of upgrades to it (linoleum spray, sports rack, big spotties, tow/bull bars, big speakers, new Sony entertainment unit, front and back cameras, mint condition interior, etc etc).

        • SpainKing on 05/12/2023 - 17:54

          Dude that sucks. Good luck getting the Navara back, hope the police aren't too useless. Something big like a car is generally pretty difficult to hide so they may have a decent chance of actually finding it but if not I really hope you had insurance

  • bobbified on 02/12/2023 - 15:36
    +2

    It had a pretty touchy alarm,

    I didn't think anyone had car alarms these days. Years go when they were popular, the constant false alarms just got annoying and noone cared anymore.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:40

      Doesn't every car have one? I didn't 3rd party mine, it's stock.

      • bobbified on 02/12/2023 - 15:42
        +3

        I've had four cars and none of them had an alarm. Even my MY2000 WRX in the year 2000 (when they were getting stolen left, right and centre for ram raids) didn't have one (but it did have a keypad that cut the ignition).

        • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:08

          There you go. I genuinely thought they were standard..

          • Speckled Jim on 03/12/2023 - 15:04
            +1

            @900dollaridoos: Immobilisers became mandatory in some states IIRC. Even a 97 Mirage I once owned had a chip in the key shell (no remote locking tho).

        • Subere on 03/12/2023 - 23:25

          My 1985 mazda 323 had a keypad (thanks for reminding me about it!). It ended up failing eventually but I got our autoelectrician to hide an immobiliser that needed to be pressed when turning the ignition.

        • montorola on 05/12/2023 - 11:03

          Just out of interest - why were they being stolen for ram raids - how are they different to any other car for that purpose?

          • bobbified on 05/12/2023 - 11:07
            +2

            @montorola:

            how are they different to any other car for that purpose?

            The WRX had superior handling and acceleration (not many cars had turbo and AWD at the time) and were able outrun the cop cars (commodores and falcons) during a chase. It got to a point where the cops got a couple of their own WRXs.

            • montorola on 05/12/2023 - 11:33

              @bobbified: Ahh makes sense, thanks!

              I was thinking they had a more robust "face" compared to the rest for ramming haha

              • bobbified on 05/12/2023 - 11:48
                +1

                @montorola: hahaha 😂

                I was just trying to picture the angry WRX face! 😋

  • 2jzzzz on 02/12/2023 - 15:39

    Put on a tow truck?

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:40

      ???

      • Minimum chips on 03/12/2023 - 00:01
        +3

        They're saying that might be how they stole it. Don't have to break glass or access the car, just lift the car and tow it away.

        American-style tow trucks can do this a lot quieter than the full tilt tray ones you see most of the time in Australia. You can see videos on them reposessing cars with them, which has to be quick and not attract attention to avoid confrontation.

  • dylanando on 02/12/2023 - 15:42
    +5

    ive thrown an airtag in my car, i know it will alert the thief, but it will give me enough time to track right?
    I dont even remember where i put it in the car.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:45
      +5

      Yeah definitely doing this.
      Annoyingly, like a bitcoin day dreamer, I played with one in a store just a week ago tossing up putting one in my car. Gonna relieve that moment more than once in the coming weeks…

    • brendanm on 02/12/2023 - 15:45
      +2

      Why would you even want it back after some crackhead has had their way with it? I'd rather get the sweet insurance money.

      • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:47

        Mainly because it was a ripper deal that I will unlikely find for the same cash, especially after excess loss and future rate rises.
        Obviously if it's trashed that's different.

        Airtag also helps point the cops in the right directions and maybe get the interal valuables back. Few mementos and sports kits sadly lost to all this if they burn it out.

      • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 15:43
        +2

        Insurance companies are paying out less than half the current inflated market value on cars at the moment, so that would not be an ideal situation to find yourself in.

        • brendanm on 03/12/2023 - 15:46
          +2

          That's why agreed value was invented.

          • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 22:11
            +2

            @brendanm: Insurers are ignoring or devaluing the "agreed value" after it's been agreed upon and leaving those making a claim dramatically short-changed. Insurers can adjust an agreed value any time they like, so long as they do it in writing, even if it's buried 16 pages deep in a TOS/policy update e-mail.

            https://www.insurancenews.com.au/daily/agreed-value-catching…

            Acting Senior Solicitor for Financial Rights Legal Centre Marianna Zaunders says a significant number of consumers have sought advice on the issue over the past two years.

            “Policyholders are finding that they are underinsured and short-changed,” she tells insuranceNEWS.com.au

            The Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA) has ruled on a number of agreed value disputes.

            In one case, a man complained about a Suncorp settlement of $33,600 after his vehicle was written off, arguing that its value was between $55,000 and $60,000.

            But AFCA sided with Suncorp, saying that it was an agreed value policy, and that an agreed value does not need to reflect the true value.

            “To be clear, in proposing a figure for which it is prepared to cover the vehicle for the new policy year, the insurer is not giving personal advice or representing it reflects ‘market’ value,” AFCA said.

            • brendanm on 04/12/2023 - 00:20

              @infinite: Lol, that guy agreed to a lower value 😂 Lrn2insurance mate. Also lrn2read.

              • infinite on 04/12/2023 - 17:53

                @brendanm: Go back and read what was actually posted.

                Policy holders are getting their agreed value reduced by the insurance companies without knowing, then paid out less than what was agreed upon when they go to make a claim. When the policy holders take them to court or consumer tribunals, they are losing their cases because the insurance companies successfully claim the reductions are "natural depreciation of value, to the agreed upon value".

                • brendanm on 04/12/2023 - 18:07
                  -1

                  @infinite: I think you need to read it correctly. In your article, the policy holder insured for agreed value years ago, however values rose, and they didn't change the agreed value. They then couldn't buy a car the same as they were underinsured. The insurance company didn't do squat, the policyholder underinsured their vehicle.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 02/12/2023 - 18:26

      AirTag notifies if person is being followed btw

  • GordonD on 02/12/2023 - 15:58
    +1

    When I read what the OP wrote, that his car was stolen without them having the keys or tripping the alarm, I was reminded of this article I read this morning from the UK.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/keyless-car-thef…

    It doesn't tell you what the solution is, but it suggests what at least part of the problem might be.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:06

      Thats an interesting read, thanks.

      Fwiw my car isnt keyless start, still needs the ignition key. I guess they fob method from your link plus a screw driver would probably achieve the same effect though. Pretty disheartening either way!

  • Mechz on 02/12/2023 - 15:58
    +5

    Car thieves aren't typical home invaders, they might cat burgle you if the opportunity is there, but if not then nothing to really worry about.

    But if you genuinely think you or your partner aren't safe, just pack up and move. Find another job. Nothing else will really change your mind.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:04

      Good advice on all counts tbh. Cheers

  • FoxJump on 02/12/2023 - 16:06
    +2

    radio frequency blocking pouches for all car keys when not in use

    also they could have towed your car away

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:08
      +1

      Nah they definitely drove it out. Its an incredibly tight lane that doesnt fit even small trucks.
      So much so the shitheads knocked a wing mirror off and took out a fence post on the way out haha.

  • Hellfire on 02/12/2023 - 16:32
    +1

    Home invasions are very rare in Australia (except where the home belongs to a criminal or someone with large amounts of cash/gold).

    Basic security to dissuade a common burglar is all you need. Bars or shutters, visible cameras, and don't leave doors or windows open.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:36
      -2

      Home invasions are very rare in Australia

      I disagree

      If your street has 50 houses, statistically one will be robbed this year. Thats high enough for me to sweat it.

      • Hellfire on 02/12/2023 - 18:33
        +8

        That's not home invasion.

        Burglary is common and which is why you have deterrents so that the burglar picks another house.

        • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 18:36
          -3

          This is such a weird hair for you to split.

          From the source:
          "A break-in is defined as an act of unauthorised forced entry into a home or other private residence."

          Based on that description i think its warranted to be concerned about a 2% annual probability.

          • Hellfire on 02/12/2023 - 18:40
            +11

            @900dollaridoos: No it's not.

            A home invasion is where the intruder is looking to hurt the occupants. Burglary doesn't have that intent so the burglar will just go to another house if yours is secure or appears to be occupied.

              • Hellfire on 02/12/2023 - 18:46

                @900dollaridoos: Because it's a different type of crime. You are generally safe in a break in but not a home invasion.

                I'm astounded that you don't see the difference.

                How many people are hurt in break ins?

              • Hellfire on 02/12/2023 - 18:48
                +2

                @900dollaridoos: You are also misunderstanding the statistics. The 2% includes all break ins, not just those "with loved ones inside who aren't allowed adequate defence"

              • vi9ilante on 03/12/2023 - 20:45

                @900dollaridoos: Confusion was always with you sir.

                Relevant enough to argue and die on this hill. RIP

      • Mechz on 02/12/2023 - 18:34
        +7

        Home invasion is not the same as a break-in.

      • GrueHunter on 04/12/2023 - 14:09

        If your street has 50 houses, statistically one will be robbed this year.

        That's…not how this works.

        Some neighbourhoods have much higher crime rates than others (for example, it took two seconds searching to find one suburb in Canberra that had 3 break ins in the last quarter, and another that had 29, despite having about the same number of people)
        Some houses are more likely to be targets than others
        Deduct the proportion of break ins that are crackheads and bikies stealing from one another
        Deduct the 21% of premises that had more than one break in

        …and so on.

        Thats high enough for me to sweat it.

        And yet you drove a motor vehicle, facing possible serious injury or death every single day?

        You walk around the street, when the national risk of a break-in and the national risk of physical assault are about the same?

        Assessing risk isn't your strong point, is it?

  • Malik Nasser on 02/12/2023 - 16:53
    -3

    Apply for a firearms licence for 'animal / pest' control.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 17:03
      -3

      Honestly considering it.
      Jail seems more palatable than a lifetime of a loved ones trauma.

      • BigBirdy on 03/12/2023 - 09:24
        +30

        Someone steals your car, and now you're considering getting a gun? Hobart is not the OK Corral. Petty crime does not imply violent crime. Get a grip on reality mate

        • lachhelix on 03/12/2023 - 19:17
          +4

          100%, really quite insane, I've managed to use up all my negs in 30 seconds
          How tf could guns be a solution to anything lol. Piss off back to the US

          • ssfps on 04/12/2023 - 02:39
            -4

            @lachhelix: You've been watching too much bullshit in the media.

        • borrisz0r on 03/12/2023 - 21:32
          +3

          They are just lucky they didn't kill his dog. We could end up with hundreds dead whilst he attempts a rage fuelled vendetta….

      • Juggernauto on 03/12/2023 - 16:26
        +4

        You seem to imply that doing jail time will not cause some sort of trauma/breakdown of your relationship

      • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 21:21
        -1

        So wht happens if the home invader grabs the gun befor eyour family does and uses it on them ?

        eg: you arent home, your family comes home and mr home invader found the gun and uses it when they walk in teh door ?

        Did you even think this thru ?

        Death by ones own gun is one of the highest causes of death in gun hero states of america. Guns kill more owners than anything else… not sure you want to go down that path.

      • Commander1201 on 04/12/2023 - 12:52

        You're not at all wrong, with the law the way it is your trauma will be more significant than their punishment

    • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 21:22

      Yeh we all know how well weapons in everyones hand worked out in your home country.. but hey thats why you moved here isnt it ?

      • SpainKing on 05/12/2023 - 18:03

        That's quite insensitive to say. What if they were a refugee? It has a very "go back to where you came from" tone

        • CowFrogHorse on 06/12/2023 - 20:53

          We are all eventually migrants from a foreign country and given our friends name, its obvious they are first or second generation of migrants.

          Whether they are refugees or not doesnt change the facts about the country of their forefathers. In fact if they are refugees it re-enforces my point that they probably left there because that country is a shithole.

          Most of the world is a shithole compared to australia, so do yourself a favour and think about WHY those places are shitholes and do everyone a favour and dont wish or want to copy dumb ideas from those places.

  • Malik Nasser on 02/12/2023 - 16:57
    -1

    Make your property harder to enter / steal.
    Criminals / thieves are looking for easy pickings. Look around your neighbourhood and make your property more secure than your neighbours.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:58
      -2

      Hard in a rental. Buying is a solution but not for the entire country.

      • gromit on 04/12/2023 - 10:29
        +1

        It isn't hard in a rental at all, visible Camera's, removable sensors on windows and doors, floodlights. All easily done in a rental. basically the majority of thieves are looking for easy marks.

  • Ryanek on 02/12/2023 - 17:14
    +1

    When at home, keep your keys in a faraday box.

  • MEDBEDb on 02/12/2023 - 17:33
    +4

    You can also put a metallic steering wheel lock, those are pretty cheap on Amazon or ebay

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 18:33
      +2

      Neighbor has that. I should have copied

  • franco cozzo on 02/12/2023 - 17:35
    +11

    boiling hot water

    • djones145 on 02/12/2023 - 17:56
      +1

      damn was 21 minutes to slow

      • Mugsy on 03/12/2023 - 14:06

        The joke that keeps giving.

    • Protractor on 03/12/2023 - 14:21
      +2

      Trained garden lizards

  • Gnostikos on 02/12/2023 - 18:17
    -3

    Feels very frustrating when the recommended way to defend your family is to wait for them to be assaulted and then lodge a police report. I love Australia but it feels lousy being both nanny-stated and unprotected.

    Yeah, you basically summed it up.

    You're going to receive a lot of defensive, evasive, hand-waving BS in this thread from typical naive, middle-class Aussies who've never had to defend themselves in a life-or-death situation but the fact of the matter is that the right to self-defence simply doesn't exist in this country.

    You have a legal right to retreat/not engage criminals intending to inflict you and your loved ones harm and/or death and even when no other option exists, assuming you survive the ordeal, there will be an obligatory, protracted criminal case with many asinine legal hoops to jump through before you're exonerated and there are countless examples of people defending themselves against violent criminals who still ended up facing some sort of legal repercussions afterwards, because the laws are written and interpreted by crusty, senile geriatric f**ks who were born well into the previous century and who live in some of the wealthiest, least crime-ridden suburbs in the nation, who once again, fail to have any understanding of people less fortunate than themselves.

    It all comes back to the uncomfortable truth that Australia has no bill of rights, the only democratic nation in the world without a national bill or charter of human rights. There is no tradition of rugged individualism in a nation which has a collective servile/boot-licking mentality dating back to colonial times, there's no concept of "castle doctrine" and since 1996 gun ownership has been systematically demonised as being equivalent to indulging in pedophilia or some other insane equivalence and our politically-apathetic, sedentary population will never actually vote into power politicians who care about their lives, rights, personal safety and punishing/deterring violent criminals.

    All of this means that ordinary, well-meaning, good-natured people like yourself who fall prey to criminal elements have an incredibly rude awakening as to how powerless you really are, when it comes down to defending yourself and your family.

    The right to self-defence is the only right that actually matters. The exercise of all other rights is entirely dependent on you being able to protect yourself from anyone who may choose to deprive you of some/all of your rights and in the 21st century, the only way to level the playing field in self-defence scenarios and give all people regardless of ability, the same equal footing against any aggressor, is to have them be armed and know how to use firearms effectively. Any other suggestion is just enabling/excusing criminals who don't play by the same rules as law abiding citizens and hence forfeit their rights when they choose to violate those of others.

    Unfortunately, this concept is completely lost on people here where the onus is on the law-abiding person to prove why they should be able to defend their life instead of waiting for a life-threatening situation to occur and then attempting to improvise their way out of it for the first time in their lives or relying on police assistance.

    An even more depressing fact is that armed cash-in-transit security guards are legally allowed to use deadly force to protect their cargoes but ordinary citizens can't use deadly force to protect their lives.

    It's utter insanity but once again, explaining this to the average Australia is like trying to explain quantum physics to a cockroach.

    • AustriaBargain on 02/12/2023 - 18:26
      +2

      You can use deadly force if it's the only way to save your life. You can't use deadly force just because someone wants to take your wallet without permission. Your wallet isn't worth a life, unless you got the cure for cancer or Taylor Swift nudes in there or summat.

      • Gnostikos on 02/12/2023 - 18:30
        -5

        You can use deadly force if it's the only way to save your life.

        Yeah… whatever helps you sleep at night.
        See how you go in court with that one.

        As I said, do some reading and you'll find countless examples of people using proportionate deadly force against an imminent threat to their lives and STILL being shafted by the legal system of this country.

        Also, have you been through the process of legally-owning a gun in this country? It's structured in such a way to make the average person give up all of hope of every obtaining one so good luck having that legal, deadly-force option at the ready when you need it.

        • AustriaBargain on 02/12/2023 - 18:33

          I mean GEORGE ZIMMERMAN should still be in prison today, if that's what you are asking. The kid he kills got not justice from the system.

          • Gnostikos on 02/12/2023 - 18:36
            +1

            @AustriaBargain: What the hell are you on about?

            You're talking about "using deadly force" in a country where legally owning a gun is an extremely time, money and sanity-consuming ordeal and even then, actually using it against a threat to your life is still legally problematic for so many reasons.

            If you knew anything about gun laws in this country you'd know that just having a loaded firearm at home at the ready, even if legally-acquired, is completely illegal. Firearms and ammunition have to be stored separately in approved gun safes so good luck explaining to the judge why you had a locked and loaded firearm on your person the moment someone broke into your house and tried to murder you. You're going to be charged with manslaughter at a minimum.

            Seriously… you're way out of your depth here. Do some reading about the Trayvon Martin case while you're at it too because your take on that story is garbage.

            • AustriaBargain on 02/12/2023 - 18:45
              +4

              @Gnostikos: Defensive gun use is actually relatively rare. Studies have shown that gun ownership is associated with an increased risk of suicide. Firearms are a highly lethal method, and their presence in a household can elevate the risk for family members. Accidental discharges or misuse of firearms can also lead to injuries or fatalities within the family.

                • AustriaBargain on 02/12/2023 - 18:56
                  +1

                  @Gnostikos: I didn't realise this was USBargain…

                  • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 18:58

                    @AustriaBargain: Youre citing gun stats and ignoring the most westernised example of a high gun ownership country? Ok, definitely arguing in good faith arent you.

                    • AustriaBargain on 02/12/2023 - 19:03
                      +4

                      @900dollaridoos: I was looking at Australian gun stats. But let's look at the US

                      The NRA is wrong, Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you: Gun ownership doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk of suicide. This research is bolstered by a national survey that found that a gun in the home was far more likely to be used to threaten a family member or intimate partner than to be used in self-defense. https://slate.com/technology/2015/01/good-guy-with-a-gun-myt….

            • sulmar on 03/12/2023 - 21:55
              +3

              @Gnostikos: Go move to America as I'm sure its a better and safer country for you than here.

              • CowFrogHorse on 06/12/2023 - 20:56

                @sulmar: He wont move to america, because america is the land of bullshit.

                Not everyone drives a Ferrari or has a dad that is a billionaire. There are so many broken lies about american culture and promises its not funny. Deep down our friends knows its ALL bullshit from jobs that want to own your life, to lack of medical care, or respect for holidays and sick days.

                Its all crap and like you said Gnostikos doesnt have the mental integrity to actually go there because he knows its all fake.

      • Vita85 on 03/12/2023 - 18:24
        +4

        If they break into a home, their life is worth less than the cockroach I stepped on last night.

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 18:31
      +1

      Honestly im with you pretty well entirely. The thing is ive always felt this way. This situatuon i guess just reignited the frustrations.

      It's funny too what you said about the naive. If you scroll up there people begging me and splitting hairs about whether a break in and home invasion are comparable stars. Outstanding head in the samd behaviour.

      • Gnostikos on 02/12/2023 - 19:04
        +6

        Sadly I don't have a solution for you (other than it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6/dead men can't take the stand) but you're not alone, there are many people who do go against the grain on this topic in Australia, they just keep quiet about it for obvious reasons.

        Actually I do have one suggestion: a large breed dog. Case in point, there was a string of robberies in a neighbourhood I used to live in many years ago, committed by the same group of serial burglars. As part of the evidence presented against them in court when they were finally apprehended (probably after dozens and dozens of home burglaries) was a map they had drawn up of the suburb they were committing burglaries in, that had any homes with dogs on the property marked in red. None of these homes were targeted.

        A family friend I knew who was a dog breeder (specifically Dobermans, Shepherds, Rottweilers, etc) also told me that he'd often sold dogs to people who had been burglarised multiple times at the same house and he never knew of a single case where their home was targeted again after they had a big ol' guard dog on the property.

    • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 21:25
      +1

      Wow someone really believes taht American gun owner bullshit.

      DO you know guns in the community causes more violence, dont believe me, again look at America. Did you know the story of the gun owner being a hero is basically zero. 99 out of 100 times they are cowards and do nothing, dont believe me just look at al the gun masscares, almost always the supposed heroes never actually help in anyway - they hide. Sop the reality is guns actually means one day your kids find them or someone in teh family is depressed and a lot more horrible stories.

      Grow a brain, Americans are cowards and not heroes, guns doesnt make America safer, its actually the opposite.

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