Parking Fine - Representing Myself at The Court

sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 05:16
Last edited 05/12/2023 - 09:09

Having read multiple posts and polls on parking fines and traffic violations, I never thought one day I would be seeking advice on this. Anyway, here I am.

Long story short, I experienced a medical episode while driving, feeling unwell due to low blood sugar (didn’t eat much that day) . I was so cooked that I had pull over to a quiet off-street location, I thought I might faint.

Several weeks later, I received a $302 fine for double parking. I didn’t someone was behind, I disputed the fine but was denied. Just applied to have this sorted out at the court. I've paid fines without issue before, but this time I’m gonna contest.

Yes before you say follow the road rules, completely understand. I know my body the best, at that moment I could keep driving and risk hitting a car/person or I did what I did.

Has anyone done a self-representation scenario in court? Any insights or tips would be greatly appreciated!

Edit: Read some good comments here and would like to clarify that I do not have a pre-existing medical condition. I maybe stubborn here but do I keep driving and potentially cause an accident or do I pull over to the nearest street and I particular chose a quiet off-street.

Automotive

Comments

  • Fredfloresjr on 05/12/2023 - 06:18
    +5

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/725278

    I did and was denied. Not worth it. Lesson for me that greedy Council C**** are just inside random car at all times taking photos for profit.

    Was at cul-de-sac, blinkers on (evidence) as the parked car was ABOUT to move, no cars at the back (Rear dash cam),

    Just pay and move on. My tip. Not worth it. They will treat you like a cashing cow inside. JUST PAY!

    • Euphemistic on 05/12/2023 - 08:31
      +4

      Where was the council ranger recently when some idiot decided to pull up and wait for a car to leave - while the driver was still loading stuff into the back seat. Held up half a dozen cars while waiting. Selfish idiot blocking the road.

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 08:46

      Did you go to the court?

      • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:42
        +1

        They did and they lost.

    • bobbified on 05/12/2023 - 08:53

      What did the magistrate say? Did they give you a chance to explain?

      It seems to be a pretty grey area about whether you're actually "parked" or not.

      You can get a ticket for being "double-parked", but then if a cop sees you playing with your phone, you'll probably get a ticket for using your mobile while driving because you're 'not parked'.

      So which is it? (not expecting an answer here!)

      • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:45
        +5

        It seems to be a pretty grey area about whether you're actually "parked" or not.

        It wasn't grey at all, The law says

        You must not stop or park your vehicle:
        alongside another parked vehicle (double park)

        The OP in that post said they STOPPED and waited over 2 mins for the spot to become free. This is clearly double parking by the rules. Anyone blocking traffic for 2 mins should be fined, and they had been. Then went to court and lost.

        • bobbified on 05/12/2023 - 10:26

          It wasn't grey at all

          Anyone blocking traffic for 2 mins should be fined

          So where does it specify how long is too long? Are you telling me you've never stopped and waited for someone to leave a spot so you can park there?

          If you're "double parked", are you 'parked' or not?

          • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 10:40

            @bobbified:

            So where does it specify how long is too long?

            The law simply says stopped. So any amount of time stopped next to other cars while waiting is technically double parking.

            Are you telling me you've never stopped and waited for someone to leave a spot so you can park there?

            Of course I have, but never held up traffic for over 2 minutes. Its the risk you take.

            If you're "double parked", are you 'parked' or not?

            Huh?

          • CurlCurl on 05/12/2023 - 14:19

            @bobbified: In New South Wales (NSW), double parking is not allowed. According to the NSW Government, you must not stop or park your vehicle alongside another parked vehicle (double park), as this is against the parking rules1. The ROAD RULES 2014 - REG 189 also states that a driver must not stop on a road if doing so would place any part of their vehicle between a parked vehicle and the centre of the road2.

            Therefore, you cannot double park while waiting for a carpark in NSW. It’s important to follow these rules to avoid penalties and ensure the safety and flow of traffic. If you’re picking up or dropping off passengers, you may stop across a driveway for a brief period, but otherwise, double parking is not permitted1.

      • jv on 05/12/2023 - 14:02

        What did the magistrate say?

        "Ring-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding!"

  • BillyStm on 05/12/2023 - 06:48
    +5

    They'll likely say whilst they emphasise with the situation you describe the onus is still on you to obey all traffic/parking laws as the person in control of the vehicle. They will also likely point out that they aren't there to rule on special circumstances just on the actual facts/legal basis of the matter/fine. In summary they will likely also point out that the alternative safe and legal option was you could have pulled into a driveway or nearby parking space. It also would be easier to explain to someone in a residence the reasoning for pulling in their driveway to recover for future occasions

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:07

      I wasn't in the state of mind of walking out my car and go explain someone in a residence but I do get what you mean

      • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:46
        +2

        Be careful what you claim, you might get some new 'fines' added ;)

      • BillyStm on 05/12/2023 - 17:53

        Nor was I suggesting you had to, I was more so referring to if you were approached from the resident in that instance, they may not have even been home

    • blitz on 05/12/2023 - 10:50

      emphasise with the situation

      "empathise"

      • BillyStm on 05/12/2023 - 17:56
        +1

        Sorry my bad, guess I'll just get a merit and not distinction grade on that post

        • blitz on 05/12/2023 - 23:27

          Nah, I don't want to be that guy. You were still right.

  • haroldmac on 05/12/2023 - 07:01
    +5

    If you go in with the mindset that you will probably lose and it might cost you more, then at least you won't be disappointed.

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 08:51

      Hi thanks for this.

      Definitely not going in with the mindset of me winning the case.

      What am I supposed to do if I was feeling close to passing out. Stop or keep driving ?

      • Chimichanga on 05/12/2023 - 09:10
        +1

        Whether you believe you can or can't, you are right.

        Go in with a proper mindset which should be "anything but paying the full fine".

        • Say you are guilty with an explanation,
        • if you have a good drivers record, reference that.
        • if you have financial hardship, refrence that…

        Odds are they will knock the fine down a fair bit.

        I'm with you, (profanity) the council. if you're going to pay, go to court, let it cost them more.

        • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:19

          Thanks for this.

          If I didn't have a reason to stop, I'm more than happy to pay the fine. I've only had one parking fine in the past 15 years, which was my own mistake.

          This one, I'm not giving it to the council. I rather give it a shot, if I need to pay more so be it.

          • Protractor on 05/12/2023 - 10:27
            -1

            @sauce2k: If you take it to court - and win - the ratepayers will effectively paying your fine 10 times over, by way of legal costs.
            You have also defined yourself perfectly as a person unfit to hold a drivers license, BTW.

            • Chimichanga on 05/12/2023 - 10:49
              +1

              @Protractor: No he has not.. things happen to anyone, could happen to you too.
              You ok with handing out money to the government so who cares if it cost 10 times then to rate payers.. keep handing money.

              Fight it mate, let them not make a dime off of you, whatever you pay will be nothing to what it cost them. They can have discretion and waive it, they can have lower fines that rise for repeat offenders, but they don't cause fines are all about revenue generation, not public safety and order.

            • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 11:08

              @Protractor: A person unfit to hold a drivers license, what are you on here? I’m sorry but that’s a very unconvincing statement from you.You never suddenly felt ill ever in your life?

              • Protractor on 05/12/2023 - 11:11

                @sauce2k: Hahaha, 'look over there'!

                3 episodes and read how you described the episodes. The fact you have NOT sought to do the right & safe thing still, reinforces the call.
                Hand it in.

      • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:47
        +1

        Definitely not going in with the mindset of me winning the case.

        Then why go in at all?

        What am I supposed to do if I was feeling close to passing out. Stop or keep driving ?

        Pull over, own your actions if you parked illegally, pay the fine and move on with life.

        • Chimichanga on 05/12/2023 - 10:52
          -1

          What if this was you and the fine was say $4,000? would you not have wanted a bit of leniency? you'll probably reply "no".. thats great you pay the fine.. others will fight back a system that is rigged to just keep making money off of us.. you can pay though.

          • Protractor on 05/12/2023 - 11:08
            +1

            @Chimichanga: I hate rangers, detest parking fines and would love to see local govt scrapped. But this situation doesn't warrant dying on a hill for it, in any way,shape of form.

            There's more serious issues if you're going to play the 'what if' card.
            What if OP had blacked out, and ploughed into a car with your family in it.

          • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 12:23

            @Chimichanga:

            What if

            What if aliens are coming and the only way to save the plant was to double park and pay the fine!? Would I do it!? Hmmm

            Your what if isn't even remotely close to the OP issue.

            OP felt unwell from not eating all day, continued to drive until a point it was a 'major' issue, then double parked.

            OP could have done many things to not get fined.

            • Ate food during the day, this happend at 3pm. So heaps of time to eat.
            • Pulled over earlier when they felt their sugar levels getting low
            • Pulled over into a safe legal parking space instead.

            This wasn't some heart attack that happened without warning.

        • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 11:11

          To defend myself? Sure I would like to win the case but I’m also not a senseless person, I can definitely see why the fine was given. What do you do in your life if you got slapped with something, just move on with life? Probably exaggerated but back to the question, wtf am I supposed to do in this situation? Keep driving and risk of hitting a car or something? Sorry for my language.

          • Muzeeb on 05/12/2023 - 12:12

            @sauce2k: Please refrain from such foul language in the future. Cheers

          • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 12:19

            @sauce2k:

            wtf am I supposed to do in this situation?

            Manage your sugar levels and this would be a 'situation' to begin with.

            Keep driving and risk of hitting a car or something?

            No your pull over in a safe legal place. If you can't manage to do that and get fined, you own it.

            Your 'medical issue' of feeling unfeel isn't a valid reason for double parking.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 05/12/2023 - 07:14
    +12

    Prosecution to apply for show cause re: unfit to drive a motor vehicle due to medical condition.

    • bobbified on 05/12/2023 - 08:38
      +3

      It would really suck to win in court for the parking ticket but licence taken away because of medical condition.

    • jv on 05/12/2023 - 08:56
      +3

      re: unfit to drive a motor vehicle due to medical condition.

      which sounds like it should be the case here…

      Reminded me of this recent story…

      Driver had a similar 'medical episode'…

      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/royal…

    • Chimichanga on 05/12/2023 - 09:14
      -2

      that doesn't work like that. You don't apply penalties that are not in line with what you've been charged with nor make up a whole new case to charge you with. what you say is as ridiculous as saying "he should be in jail for life!" its not the penalty for the infraction. .prosecutor doesn't get to make some new shit up…

  • EightImmortals on 05/12/2023 - 07:15
    -2

    Good luck. You might fluke a magistrate with half a brain but as others have said, you probably wont. I have heard some positive outcomes though so it's probably worth a shot. At the very least you'll gain some experience.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 05/12/2023 - 07:33
    +7

    Unless you have a pre existing condition I don't see "I didn't have enough sugar" as a reasonable excuse.

    The only way I'd see this playing in your favour is if you either had dashcam with audio where you can be heard going "wow that was close. Almost fainted" OR you went to the dr after and there were notes from it.

    Remember that this is a council fine to generate money, not a court of law where actual logic applies. They're greedy ass hats

  • Dogs on 05/12/2023 - 07:48
    +2

    Drove to Queensland in my slow hiace had a road rage incident because I was going to slow for the druggie nutter. Drove a bit further and got a speeding ticket for 67 in a 60 zone. First ticket ever and im 67. Queensland dont accept sob stories or excuses. I just paid it and moved on.

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:15
      -1

      A different scenario but I understand the pain.

      • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:49
        +1

        Same moral of the story though applies. They made a mistake, they paid the fine and moved on with life.

  • brendanm on 05/12/2023 - 07:53
    +3

    Do you have a legitimate medical condition?

    • Muzeeb on 05/12/2023 - 08:10
      +11

      It doesn't matter. They know their body best. Magistrate might even revoke OP's license and force OP to obtain a full medical review before they get it back. 😉

      • Sal in SA on 05/12/2023 - 09:04
        +3

        Needs to happen..

      • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:14

        Thanks for this. I will get my medical review done before I go to the court.

        • Muzeeb on 05/12/2023 - 09:16
          +4

          Good for you but it will cost more than the court fine.

        • brendanm on 05/12/2023 - 11:20

          I'll take that as a "no" to my question then.

          • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 11:25

            @brendanm: yep I don't.

            • brendanm on 05/12/2023 - 11:29

              @sauce2k: Then your claim of "low sugar" is just made up, and you aren't getting out of any fine.

              • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 11:34
                -1

                @brendanm: Sure. Rather hear it myself from the Judge.

                • Muzeeb on 05/12/2023 - 12:14
                  +1

                  @sauce2k: I like your confidence. It's an admirable quality.

        • Eeples on 08/12/2023 - 15:38

          Some people need to get their Doctor to approve their driving EVERY year because of medical issues.

          Additionally your specialist (or specialists) may also be required to send a report to your doctor.

          You are opening a can of worms.

          Enjoy your meal.

  • dts88 on 05/12/2023 - 08:20

    not worth it. just pay the fine to these greedy council.

  • Ozbar Gain on 05/12/2023 - 08:20
    +1

    My body, my choice (where I park)

  • franco cozzo on 05/12/2023 - 08:49
    +3

    this is why you never leave home without a 6 pack of donuts!!!

    • holdenmg on 05/12/2023 - 08:55
      +1

      Good advice and I don't even drive… :+)

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:13
      +1

      hah thanks. learned the lesson, the misus bought me jelly beans -_-

  • jv on 05/12/2023 - 08:55
    +1

    I had pull over to a quiet off-street location
    double parking

    Outside a primary school at school drop off time?

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:12

      Nope nowhere near a school and it was at 3pm.

      One way off-street.

  • holisticboy on 05/12/2023 - 08:59
    +4

    I am a type 1 diabetic, so I totally understand the plight of low blood sugar. One warning I would give, however, is that if you are also diabetic or prone to low blood sugar, you should have a medical certificate on your license which usually comes with a condition about not using the vehicle unless your blood sugar is at least above 5mmol/L (or similar). I'm not sure it would be wise to go into court and admit that this was not considered in your decision making before using the vehicle (just a thought) as I have heard of people having their licenses suspended for not having controlled blood sugar.

    • jv on 05/12/2023 - 09:05
      -1

      as I have heard of people having their licenses suspended for not having controlled blood sugar.

      The license suspension is nothing compared to other repercussions…

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:11
      +1

      Thanks, I will visit a doctor this week to have a chat.

      I have had this happen to me three times in the past 3 years. I have gone to the doctor when it first happened and everything looked to be normal.

      Appreciate the heads up on the license suspension.

  • GordonD on 05/12/2023 - 09:04
    +6

    Expect to be asked for some sort of substantiation of this medical condition that was so serious you had to pull over so urgently you didn't have time to find somewhere safe and legal to do so. Confirmation from a doctor. That you have reported it to your state's drivers licencing authority. That its recorded on your licence. And expect to be asked why if you've done all these things you didn't follow the recommendation/requirement that you carry something with you to restore your blood sugar level. And if you haven't done these things why you should expect to keep your licence.

    Courts aren't stupid. They've heard every excuse before.

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:10

      Thanks will do.

  • CurlCurl on 05/12/2023 - 09:09
    +7

    Next post.

    Had an accident and badly injured to people. I knew I should have pulled over as my blood sugar was low but I didn't want another parking fine.

    Please have your low blood sugar investigated.

    • sauce2k on 05/12/2023 - 09:10
      -2

      Cheers for stopping by.

  • JimmyF on 05/12/2023 - 09:42
    +1

    Several weeks later, I received a $302 fine for double parking

    Are you sure the fine is from the same event? Have you seen the photos of your double parking?

    Yes before you say follow the road rules, completely understand. I know my body the best, at that moment I could keep driving and risk hitting a car/person or I did what I did.

    Road rules trump your 'body' issues. You are very well aware of your body issues and as you said yourself, you failed to eat much that day which caused your sugar levels to drop.

    Has anyone done a self-representation scenario in court? Any insights or tips would be greatly appreciated!

    I'm not really sure what your angle will be? You stopped illegally because you failed to eat enough causing your blood sugar to drop?

    Not sure that is a valid reason.

  • Protractor on 05/12/2023 - 10:23
    +3

    OP,
    Hand your license in now

  • bazingaa on 05/12/2023 - 11:19

    just check, if you go to court and loose the case, you will be a criminal and might come in the police checks in future. I am not sure though, just check 100 % before going to court. Once, I got a parking fine just for stopping in the rain and I didn't see the sign, but paid it right away and called it a day.

  • geekcohen on 05/12/2023 - 11:54

    Long story short, I experienced a medical episode while driving, feeling unwell due to low blood sugar (didn’t eat much that day) . I was so cooked that I had pull over to a quiet off-street location, I thought I might faint.

    If you do go to court and explain this. The court could suspend your licence pending a medical review. Not 100% sure, but it is a possibility…… then you are going to be very inconvenienced and spend more time stuffing around trying to get the review and then showing that to VicRodads (or such authority).

    As also mentioned above

  • Drakesy on 05/12/2023 - 12:08
    +3

    Do you have a medical certificate stating that you get fainting episodes?

    If you do submit it, but you may lose your license on medical grounds, if not you're SooL

  • Porker on 05/12/2023 - 14:43

    When is the court date?

    It would be good to know what the outcome is and what the Magistrate says about it.

  • yoho on 05/12/2023 - 21:46

    Yeah, contest it. I can feel your passion.

    Most likely, the Council will pull out before the court date. They will keep writing to you, saying how they may have extra charges etc. Just keep responding nicely and calmly with the reasons given, and would like the opportunity for the magistrate to consider the circumstances.

    I took one all the way to the magistrate, and "won"… sort of. I was dropping my daughter off at school and council took a photo (cant remember the offence, maybe double parking). As cars were stationary in front and behind me I took the opportunity to let my daughter out of the car (safely). As the council photos supported my argument I wasn't going to let it go.
    Pleaded not guilty and explained myself, politely. Magistrate said I could continue to plead not guiltily and he would set a new court date or go for guilty and he reduces the fine and any costs the council may have to zero. Suffice to say I swallowed my pride and said "guilty, your honor".

    There were many other similar situations before my case, the magistrate seemed very fair, especially on small and silly infringements. I suspect the magistrate expects Council to deal with these matters prior to seeing him. BUT, be prepared for the wrath if you are rude to any one in the courtroom (especially the magistrate).

    Is it worth it? I did it for adventure and a bit of fun. I spend most of the day in court listening to lots of interesting stories before my case came up. Even though I had my penalty removed, the day out cost me money as I am consultant.

    Some other points:
    1. The council had a whole heap of cases to get through, they offered the base fine, and warned again the magistrate may increase the penalty… no dice.
    2. Don't wait outside for your case, watch to see how the other cases go, and what is working. Its good to understand the process.
    3. I cannot emphasize enough the need to be calm and reasonable, wear a shirt and pants, and speak politely about the other party. You really are at the mercy of the magistrate so be nice.

    I like to think of myself as a confident sort of guy, but the whole experience is quite stressful, and out of the ordinary. You are up against the council prosecution who does it every day. I was just testing the system on a frivolous matter, it would be no fun representing yourself on a more serious matter.

  • rambutann on 06/12/2023 - 11:43

    I know one bloke who took a fine to court, but it was a 'standing on the train tracks whilst the gates were down' fine. He claims they closed after he had entered the crossing.

    He rocked up at court, started rambling on about why he didn't deserve the fine, showed images of how the police were not in a good position to determine whether he was indeed in the wrong. Anywho, the judge had to stop him and say 'are you done?' and eventually he stopped speaking and the fine was revoked.

    If you work near the court, and you work is flexible, and its just a matter of waddling down to the court at 11am and you're back by 1pm, then give it a crack, yolo.
    Take heaps of photos, get a doctors note, ramble about safety, why not.

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