Unregistered Vehicle Ponderings

Ghost47 on 19/12/2023 - 18:42
Last edited 19/12/2023 - 18:44

So paying my rego today (~$870 in total, ~$550 making up the TAC charge) made me wonder how many cars could be out out there being driven unregistered on our roads, either wilfully or by mistake. My lack of faith in people makes me think the number could be quite high. From a couple of old articles I've found online it seems historically there have been 700 caught per week in Victoria in 2014 and 66 caught per day in NSW in 2011 driving unregistered vehicles.

I wonder a couple of things:

  1. Could the TAC charge (Green Slip in NSW, taxes in other states etc.) be lower if everyone (or at least a higher proportion of people) paid their fair share?
  2. If accidents are increasing year on year, but not everyone pays their registration fees, could this mean TAC charges/Green Slip fees/taxes will increase at a quicker rate?

Anyone in the know able to shed some light on this?

Sources:
Budget Direct data on accidents
More data from Road Trauma Australia Interesting because it says 2022 had more road deaths than 2021, but deaths per population is down. Could this be because more people are moving to Australia, but not everyone who moves here ends up driving a car, e.g. international students?
Article about Victoria unregistered vehicles
Article about NSW unregistered vehicles

Automotive

Comments

  • Stewardo on 19/12/2023 - 18:50
    +8

    Depending where you live there is plenty of cameras that will check the number plate and its registration status.

    • Ghost47 on 19/12/2023 - 18:53

      I see, that was mentioned in the NSW article. A quick Google indicates the same tech also exists in Victoria. Definitely a good thing to help catch rego cheats.

      This article is from 2018 and says an estimated 38,000 unregistered or unlicensed drivers were on roads in Victoria in day, but only 40 per day could be picked up with the technology, I would guess because it relies on being in the right time and place as an unregistered driver to be caught.

      • No on 19/12/2023 - 19:07
        +3

        If the people are driving on major roads I reckon the Police will catch them fairly quick.

        It's a very easy conviction and nearly impossible to disprove when Police show the photo so they'll go hard on it.

        • Ghost47 on 19/12/2023 - 19:14

          Possibly, I guess it would depend on how close the patrol vehicle is to the offending car because the camera would need to be able to pick up its licence plate. Anecdotal but I personally don't see patrol cars every day on the road. Does sound like an easy conviction though.

          • No on 19/12/2023 - 19:17
            +3

            @Ghost47: I donno about other states but in WA they have mobile ANPR cameras that look the same as speed cameras which can scan 3-4 lanes of traffic.

            • Gdsamp on 20/12/2023 - 11:36

              @No: Definitely no privacy issues there btw the WA government would never use data collections for anything other than their stated purpose

              • No on 20/12/2023 - 12:01

                @Gdsamp: I disagree. They'll use the data to punish hard whatever the crime of the week is.

                • Gdsamp on 20/12/2023 - 12:40

                  @No: didnt think it needed a /s but alas

    • apple2016 on 20/12/2023 - 11:20

      Not very sure of this. I recently forgot to renew the rego for about a month. I was traveling frequently on springvale rd in Melbourne which has cameras in most intersections. Never had an issue!

      • Gdsamp on 20/12/2023 - 11:31

        There is of course a grace period that varies by state. In VIC, 28 days; WA 3 months.

  • holdenmg on 19/12/2023 - 19:15
    +1

    Calls for national Automatic Number Plate Recognition system to crack down on crime
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-17/anpr-loophole-allowin…

    • Ghost47 on 19/12/2023 - 19:21

      Thanks for sharing, I'm not surprised at all that states aren't talking to each other about this kind of thing.

      Mr Douglas believed fixed ANPR cameras would become more common in the future as they would allow officers to catch offenders before they crossed interstate borders.

      Seems like a no-brainer to have ANPR cameras set up at major border checkpoints to catch this kind of thing.

      • Protractor on 19/12/2023 - 19:37
        -2

        Cops don't need more power, the public needs better cops. The more data they get, the more corruption will prevail.

        The covid data in WA was co-opted by the police after stating multiple times it would be destroyed after that state opened up.
        Until police are actually investigated independently, rather than from within, we have third world standard policing.With the amount of plate scanning tech in already the hands of the police , they should be able to keep on top of crime involving false plates ,and unreg cars

        Maybe when the police have rid the community of meth and ice and other crime driving drugs and the crims who distribute it, we can reward them with new toys.

        OP should be more concerned with where all that $$$ goes from over the top regos and CTP insurance etc.
        Hint> mates of politicians and contractors and pork barrelling

        • Ghost47 on 19/12/2023 - 19:44

          OP should be more concerned with where all that $$$ goes from over the top regos and CTP insurance etc.

          I didn't mention it in the OP but I am definitely concerned with where it all goes, but I'm also concerned about people dodging the system when other people are honest and pay their rego on time.

          I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of leakage for whatever reason.

          Didn't downvote you btw.

          • Protractor on 19/12/2023 - 20:20
            +3

            @Ghost47: I just think there are bigger fish to fry for plod, and I'd need to convinced the rego issue is as bigger problem as claimed.I see it as more data harvesting, and privacy loss.

            Lets see the peer reviewed independent data that shows the real size and risk of the 'alleged' problem.
            Media beat ups drive this stuff, and that's another issue. The police and media are too cosy.

            Yeah I noted the negs. Probs a mix of those I offended on both sides of the fence. I see that as defending the problem at hand.Not surprised at all.

  • mskeggs on 19/12/2023 - 20:10
    +3

    I have a friend who got done 48 hours after failing to complete her rego online because the system timed out.
    In NSW every hwp and most normal patrol cars have an always on, scanning camera on the roof racks that gives a real time alert to the officers if they pass an unregistered vehicle.
    The fines are brutally high.

    If they are catching 60+ per day, I reckon they are catching pretty close to everyone driving unregistered.
    And that is a drop in the ocean of the 5.9million registered vehicles.

  • Switchblade88 on 19/12/2023 - 20:33
    +1

    I had a trailer that was apparently unregistered for TWO YEARS without me knowing, as I didn't receive the renewal notice emails, nor the hardcopy letters to let me know it was expiring and/or expired. No separate insurance or CTP like a car to remind me, either.

    Thankfully the cop who picked it up (whilst I was parked down the street) let me know and since I wasn't actually driving it anywhere, I wasn't breaking any laws and I promptly got it re-registered.

    I couldn't imagine NOT registering a car, and drawing the ire of the cops intentionally.

    • mskeggs on 19/12/2023 - 21:18
      +4

      I knew people when I was growing up who couldn’t afford both food and rego the week it was due, some years.
      They always acknowledged they couldn’t drive until it was registered. But if a kid had to be urgently taken to hospital, or Mum called when she had a fall and needed help, they were the kind of circumstances when a car was in the driveway that was ready to drive, and its hard to imagine the opposite - I couldn’t stand waiting for a taxi, a friend to arrive or an ambulance in similar time critical situations.
      So I don’t want people driving unregistered, but now it costs $1000 or more to rego a car, I am sure there are some pretty sympathetic stories among the people getting caught.

      And probably some pretty unsympathetic stories too.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 19/12/2023 - 20:49
    +1

    its like an 800 dollar fine if you're driving unregisters and it is bloody easy for the cops to check i think you would be insane to not ensure your rego is up to date

    • mskeggs on 19/12/2023 - 21:21
      +1

      $2200+ in NSW as you get done for unregistered and uninsured, as the insurance isn’t valid on an unregistered car (even if you had paid it, which really annoyed my friend who got caught!).

  • GordonD on 19/12/2023 - 21:26

    Interesting because it says 2022 had more road deaths than 2021, but deaths per population is down. Could this be because more people are moving to Australia, but not everyone who moves here ends up driving a car, e.g. international students?

    The population keeps going up, but at a varying rate. The road toll goes up and down. The last couple of years have been unusual because COVID reduced the amount of travelling by car in country areas, the places where road deaths disproportionately occur.

    What correlates best from year to year with road deaths isn't population, or number of registered motor vehicles, but vehicle kilometres travelled. VKT is the term. So if you want to compare the risk of , say, cars with motorcycles, you find that cars have a fatality rate of about 3 deaths per billion vehicle kilometres travelled. But for motorcycles its 106. And if you want to compare 2020 with 2021 with 2022 and 2023 you find the increase in vehicle kilometres travelled after COVID ended pretty much explains the increase in road deaths this year.

    Of course this year the population has increased by over 500,000 largely due to a huge increase in immigration.

  • elgrande on 19/12/2023 - 21:38

    Saw a car without plates hooning down the M8 from Ballarat to Melton the other day.

    • Mechz on 19/12/2023 - 21:57
      +1

      Could have had an unregistered vehicle permit.

      • elgrande on 20/12/2023 - 08:30

        Was also covered in spray paint

    • Protractor on 20/12/2023 - 10:46

      I saw a werewolf with a Chinese menu in his hand….

    • md333 on 20/12/2023 - 15:11

      I drove from Melbourne to Perth last year with no plates (movement permit).
      No attention at all from police but a few random bystanders asked if I knew my plates were missing.

      I'm guessing might have had more attention from police if it wasn't a stock, near new car.

  • websterp on 19/12/2023 - 22:01

    Well, this post got me thinking. What if you drive or park a car with suspended rego on the road? Would it be considered the same as a car with an expired rego? I got a very special type of neighbor who seem to think road rules and laws somehow do not apply to him. Has had his car with a suspended rego(Fines VIC sanction) parked on the street for two months now. Cops drive past this spot all the time but this doesn't seem to trigger any of their license plate scanners and our mate has been driving his wife's car the whole time and seem to be getting away fine. I could be wrong but my understanding is they'll suspend the owner's license along with the car rego if someone has failed or in this case refuses to pay their fines.

    • kingsville on 19/12/2023 - 23:13
      +1

      i think the cops only care if the car is being driven.
      a parked car is a council matter - they care (and act) if an unregistered car is parked on their roads.

      • try2bhelpful on 20/12/2023 - 05:12
        +1

        Sounds like time to notify the council then.

    • BeamMeUp on 20/12/2023 - 09:27

      A neighbour went through a period of buying and trying to resell unregistered old luxury cars, they only had on street parking. The cars often sat there for ages. The Council put an end to this.

  • ifyareckon on 20/12/2023 - 07:22
    +3

    One of the things the TAC charge covers is ongoing care and support for those that are victims of road related accidents. With rising costs over time, that charge will be very unlikely to come down through a few more people paying their registration when the cost of that care is continually rising. When the TAC does have excess funds, they will fund road safety projects rather than let it sit there.

  • BeamMeUp on 20/12/2023 - 09:46
    +1

    Rego is so eye watering expensive. I feel really sorry for a lot of people where things are so financially tough at the moment. I understand where people run the gauntlet with things like this and horrible for them when caught/fined or in accidents. Its the trash in society that are doing it to just to abuse the system that should get all they deserve.

  • payless69 on 20/12/2023 - 11:15

    They say Nimbin occasionally has a lost registered car sussing out the place.
    Kuranda range is closed due to Jasper, when them cameras went in rego rates were rather sketchy!

  • Montyjpm on 20/12/2023 - 12:31

    After 9/11, the technology for numberplate recognition increased fastly and now they can scan a number in like 1 seconds and can scan many numberplates at once.

  • Mad Max on 21/12/2023 - 10:13

    The other question is why does it cost over $1000 to register a car for 1 year?
    And how is that fair to the little old lady that drives to the shop and back once a week and does 3,000km per year vs the sales rep or the uber driver that clock up 80,000km per year?
    And what about the battler that limits the use of the car to the minimum to save on fuel. Why does he have to pay like people that use the car all the time?

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