Are People Who Sell Trading Courses Scammers?

bargain huntress on 03/01/2024 - 17:18
Last edited 03/01/2024 - 17:56 by 1 other user

There are lots of people online selling trading courses - all kinds of trading - stocks, currency, crypto.

I follow a few on their socials where they attempt to sell their courses. One thing I've noticed is they have multiple trading accounts. They'll show positive results from them. This obviously means that they could have a bunch of losing accounts too, that they just never admit too. It could also obviously mean their trading strategies are useless, because hypothetically they could take opposing positions and then only show the successful one.

My question is why are they allowed to have multiple accounts at exchanges? Is everyone allowed to do that?

Do people sometimes wipe themselves out doing leveraged trading, and have a huge negative balance, and then just open a new account without ever paying the negative one?

Financial

Comments

  • MrThing on 03/01/2024 - 17:26
    +47

    Yes its all a scam, how else do they really get rich, by scamming stupid people

  • mskeggs on 03/01/2024 - 17:27
    +28

    Of course.
    I don't think there is a worthwhile paid trading course.
    If they were any good at all they could make literally millions working for the hedge funds.

    • EightImmortals on 03/01/2024 - 17:29
      +1

      Not always. Power to the people!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmr8YmwnZ3w

    • ihbh on 03/01/2024 - 18:17
      +4

      I don't think there is a worthwhile paid trading course.

      There are a few, but it requires hard work to apply. E.g. Benjamin Graham's investing courses - cost of his books. Read Buffett's foreword to the Intelligent Investor for the performance of his students.

      • CocaKoala on 06/01/2024 - 00:21
        +1

        Benjamin Graham's investing courses

        Those are not "trading courses" though. Buffett, Munger, Graham, all teach you how to identify and invest in businesses.

        "Trading courses" are rather the get rich quick bs perpetrated by con artists aimed at the gullible.

        • ihbh on 06/01/2024 - 12:32
          +1

          That's why I wrote investing course, which is long long term/forever trading, in case op wanted to learn about it.

          Yep, I realise the bs aspect to con gullible people that want to get rich quick.

    • furyou on 05/01/2024 - 23:37
      +3

      Why waste 5min a day making millions on trades, when you can spend months creating a course to sell for $50?

  • Worf on 03/01/2024 - 17:28
    +48

    They wouldn’t need to sell courses if they were successful traders.

    • CyberMurning on 03/01/2024 - 17:50
      +14

      Agree. And

      They wouldn’t have time to teach others courses if they were successful traders and made millions instead.

      • kraigg on 04/01/2024 - 08:02
        +11

        Exactly, as the old saying goes: "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."

        • Ade99 on 04/01/2024 - 09:19
          +1

          unless it is more profitable to teach as opposed to do of course.

      • cloudy on 05/01/2024 - 21:41
        +2

        They wouldn’t have time to teach others

        That isn't true. Lots of people are happy to share their methods of mkaing money, no better well known than the Buff himself.

        I have also given my time in sharing my ideas occasional.

        More than doubled my money on this
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10903039/redir

        Same here
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/10609122/redir

        I still hold these as the yield is crazy good, plus a healthy return also
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/9284299/redir

        Please note, the date stamps on my calls and what has happened since.

        • bargain huntress on 05/01/2024 - 23:13

          How do you do your analysis?

        • blighst on 06/01/2024 - 12:34

          Except trading (in the context of what these people are trying to sell) is a zero-sum game. By teaching others you are inherently giving up some edge and compromising your ability to make money.

          Investing is a bit different, as one is arguably incentivised to tell others to buy/sell the stocks they buy/sell so it can reach perceived fair value quicker, and people already have a stake in said position typically before sharing.

          • cloudy on 06/01/2024 - 18:37

            @blighst:

            so it can reach perceived fair value quicker

            And what happens when perceived fair value is reached?

        • DKZ370 on 07/01/2024 - 19:16

          any suggestions on what i can invest in next??

          • cloudy on 07/01/2024 - 21:20
            +2

            @DKZ370: I can't be bothered typing my whole theory on this, but it's actually a pretty common one I happen to believe in ( I usually don't like theories that everyone else does though), but RMD looks interesting. I bought at around $22-23. But I was prepared to buy at 24ish too.

            Feel free to time stamp this and check back in a couple of years, this stock, if history is any guide, will be a good longer term investment, grabbing more market share, growing the market and creeping into adjacent services.

            The main thing is, you have to be quiet skeptical on both the velocity and breadth of Ozempics rise. Ozempic is the reason why RMD can be bought at a discount, and if it proves to be a flash in the pan RMD will regain its mojo, if Ozempic is the miracle its made out to be, well I'm happy for society and be poorer for it.

            • DKZ370 on 08/01/2024 - 01:35

              @cloudy: Thank you!! I read your other ones. Im definitely down. Much appreciated.

    • Protractor on 03/01/2024 - 18:08
      +6

      "They wouldn’t need to sell courses if they were successful traders. there weren't so many lazy, gullible drop-kicks wanting to get rich quick"

      Ironically,not a single arm is ever twisted.

      • Worf on 03/01/2024 - 22:45
        +5

        I’ve watched a bunch of fintubers, it’s all recycled baloney in my opinion.

        • captain womble on 04/01/2024 - 23:15
          +3

          Not all of it.
          Some of it's people attempting to influence demand by suggesting things they can then profit off. Ala Rene Rivkin

    • Brianqpr on 05/01/2024 - 11:28

      Wouldn't need to work at all.

    • bargain huntress on 03/01/2024 - 20:29
      +4

      Wouldnt i annoy the asx with questions like these?

      • Protractor on 04/01/2024 - 17:48
        -3

        Clearly, we'll never know.

      • borrisz0r on 04/01/2024 - 21:36
        +4

        No one would.

        I get the feeling protractor is a Scientologist, he sees things very differently to the 99%

        Kinda like a slavoz v2.

        Just ignore and move on :)

    • SpainKing on 04/01/2024 - 17:18
      +2

      They told me to ask OzBargain forums last time I had a similar conundrum

    • R-Man on 06/01/2024 - 01:39

      Interesting angle

  • ihbh on 03/01/2024 - 18:11
    +5

    Do people sometimes wipe themselves out doing leveraged trading, and have a huge negative balance, and then just open a new account without ever paying the negative one?

    Imagine they could behave like builders and declare bankruptcy and walk away from the losses and like a phoenix, rise from the ashes as sth else… who would wear the losses? The broker?

    Hell no. They have a process called margin calls - Google it. If you can't cover a move against you, they'll close your position out.

    Re selling courses - they have to earn a living. You've heard of the saying - those how can, do, those who can't, teach.

    • bargain huntress on 04/01/2024 - 11:27

      Helpful, thank you

    • frewer on 04/01/2024 - 21:36
      +1

      Correct about margin calls, there's degen gambler, dumb money moves the market. https://twitter.com/0xTDG/status/1742520090573124055. I've seen ppl get liquidation in million lives before

      My question is why are they allowed to have multiple accounts at exchanges? Is everyone allowed to do that?

      Yes, you allow multiple accounts, but some exchanges do not allow certain citizens to open accounts at all.

      Crypto's exchange is the wild west, I've been warned about FTX a few years b4 SHTF.

    • Brianqpr on 05/01/2024 - 11:31
      +1

      Many got wiped out in the GFC thru margin calls. Herd mentality of leveraging and piling into the market in around 2007 after 4 years of 20% or so annual returns in shares. What could possibly go wrong?

      If you are going to gear into markets, better off using home equity or some other form of finance, so at least you have a choice about what happens if things start to go backwards. Margin loans take this control away.

  • garetz on 03/01/2024 - 18:14
    +12

    If people had the secret to endless success trading stocks then why would they give that information away even at a fee. They would simply sit and follow that trading course themselves making unlimited money.

    • djones145 on 03/01/2024 - 19:16
      -1

      cause they are nice people and like to share?

      • JIMB0 on 03/01/2024 - 20:58
        +8

        If they're so financially successful and well meaning why not give it away for free?

    • AustriaBargain on 03/01/2024 - 22:43
      +1

      Or start Berkshire Hathaway..

  • Empharand on 03/01/2024 - 18:17
    +8

    Of course.
    You may be interested in buying my totally legit Trading Course "How to make 7 figures in just 30 days' for the initial cost of $299.99, with an ongoing subscription of $19.95 per month, with a minimum contractually bound subscription length of 20 years.

    [*the average success rate is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000047% per person]

    • donga100 on 03/01/2024 - 21:25
      +3

      "How to make 7 figures in just 30 days'

      Not that hard. Just put $240,333,333 in a savings account paying 5% interest.

    • AustriaBargain on 03/01/2024 - 22:45
      +4

      I already make seven figures. If you count decimal points.

  • ihbh on 03/01/2024 - 18:25
    +3

    If you want to learn or get a feel for trading by the pros, not scammers, one interesting avenue is the story of the Turtles. It's not about some mickey mouse rule, but discipline, risk management and constant testing and adapting.

    • skid on 04/01/2024 - 15:17
      +1

      Yeh, interesting story about how the 23 turtles trade with their own personalities. Read the book.

      • ihbh on 04/01/2024 - 15:40
        +1

        Be careful which books you read. Author is a writer, interviewing, transcribing, etc. best read from actual Turtles and the more successful ones - e.g. Faith, and also other recognised successful traders.

        • SpainKing on 04/01/2024 - 17:19
          +8

          My favourite's Donatello

  • Ozbar Gain on 03/01/2024 - 18:42
    +2

    Not all of them. Mr Gupta make nice for me and my family

    • Drpepper666 on 03/01/2024 - 21:06
      +3

      I asked Mr Gupta and he did the needful. Now I have many iPhone

      • HelpMeiCantSee on 04/01/2024 - 10:53

        All I got is a stack of iTunes gift cards

      • R-Man on 06/01/2024 - 01:41

        Kindly share his mail ID and WhatsApp ID and I will forward the same

  • Drakesy on 03/01/2024 - 19:21

    If you have to ask then you already know the answer.

  • iguana on 03/01/2024 - 19:26
    +5

    If you've found a surefire way to make money on the share market/crypto why would you share it?

    To answer your question: Yes, they are scammers.

  • BoltThrower on 03/01/2024 - 19:57
    +8

    Go long on one account, short on the other. Spam multiple low-lot trades, claim I won 20 trades in a row when it's just one trade. Post the winning screenshot. Rent Lambo and holiday home for photoshoot. Profit.

    My question is why are they allowed to have multiple accounts at exchanges? Is everyone allowed to do that?
    They're not. They'll have another account with a different broker. It's also possible they're using someone's else screenshots. If you never see someone's verified trading history from a reputable broker, then it's fishy.

    Do people sometimes wipe themselves out doing leveraged trading, and have a huge negative balance, and then just open a new account without ever paying the negative one?
    No. In order to leverage trade, The broker requires a margin. If your balance reaches that margin, your position is liquidated.

    If you want to find a mentor, look for those who trade LIVE on stream and let you look over their shoulder.

    As for trading education, start with Babypips. It's free. You'll get a feel of the type of trader you want to be and can find more advanced education based on that.
    Don't use leverage until you've got a successful trading record.
    This game is 90% handling your emotions and mindset. This game will F with you big-time.

    • bargain huntress on 03/01/2024 - 20:26
      +1

      Thanks so much @BoltThrower your post was very helpful

    • CyberMurning on 04/01/2024 - 09:02
      +2

      thanks for Babypips info, is there any similar ones but for shares/stocks ? i prefer shares than forex.

  • Rako on 03/01/2024 - 21:51
    +6

    All scams, probably better off with dollar-cost averaging into ETFs

    • Antikythera on 04/01/2024 - 18:37
      +3

      probably better off with dollar-cost averaging into ETFs

      you should sell this information in a pamphlet.

      for OP - look to educate yourself on the mechanics.

      about the stock picks themselves, your guess is as good as anyone's. a market ETF will on average beat managed funds. look for a market ETF with the lowest fees possible. or use your own knowledge in what ever field you are an expert to make your own stock gambles. I gambled on AMD and am happy so far. just wished I had started doing so much earlier like when Ryzen 2 saw them competing with Intel finally.

      someone like Warren Buffet has the time to investigate hundreds of stocks. he also has years of experience to know what to look for. but as others have said he isn't gonna give his insight out for free. don't trust people who claim to give out their insight for free or even for a small fee. if they had relevant insight they would be using the information themselves.

      people do trade information and make loads of money doing it. google "high frequency trading". they position themselves to have the tradeable information milliseconds before the competition and trade using super fast connections to the exchange to beat the slower traders orders to market by microseconds.

      there are also "free trading platforms" who are likely using the information of their user's trades to pre-trade those orders for profit. either that or they operate as "bucket shops" to make money that way.

      one other reason someone might be eager to give out free stock advice… they already invested are are now trying to get others to pump up the price so they can exit. PS - buy AMD.

      • bargain huntress on 04/01/2024 - 23:50

        Thoughtful. Thank you

      • Brianqpr on 05/01/2024 - 11:35
        +1

        The thing with managed funds is they tend to hug the index anyway as straying too far from it is disastrous for them if they get it wrong - everyone would ditch them and they'd drop off adviser approved investment lists. Therefore a cheap index fund or ETF is usually just as good if not better. From my time in financial advice only a very small number of managed funds consistently outperformed. Platinum international fund is one that springs to mind, although the guru behind that is now retired and someone else is running it.

  • Oofy Doofy on 04/01/2024 - 00:50
    +2

    If you want to learn how to do active trading and investing stuff… Learn from Martin Shkreli on YT. He has lots of good videos on his channel about all this stuff, several dozen hours worth.

    • CyberMurning on 04/01/2024 - 09:07
      +1

      just checked martin channel, mostly are kind of podcast thingie, and he is not australian - analysed usa based shares, etc. any similar but local trader and more like education contents?

    • SpainKing on 04/01/2024 - 17:25
      +7

      I don't think I want to be the type of investor Shkreli is. Jacking the prices above RRP is what we despise here at OzBargain, and Martin did that to a life saving drug which could've cost people their lives. Maybe his advice is good but I'd want it from a more ethical (and Australian-focussed) source

    • gromit on 04/01/2024 - 18:16
      +6

      of all the people to follow in this area why pick a fraudster and outright piece of shit like Shkreli

      • Oofy Doofy on 04/01/2024 - 18:47

        I only see surface level thinking here…

        There's a lot more to it than that. I could link videos and things, but if youre interested (or anyone else) you should DYOR and find out for yourself.

      • Drakesy on 04/01/2024 - 21:43
        +4

        Agreed, this guy is the living definition of human scum.

        Zero ethics.
        Did some insider trading (albeit not proven) and leveraged it to increase his wealth and bring pain and suffering to a minority.
        Not sure why people would suggest his courses.

    • bargain huntress on 04/01/2024 - 23:47
      +1

      Shkreli's justification for raising the price of drugs was so he could use the money to create new drugs

      Whats not clear to me is if he actually did that, or if he was lying?

      • TightLikeThisx on 05/01/2024 - 06:28
        +1

        He just realised that it costs a lot of money to create a new drug and that if he had the only drug on the market for a particular ailment he could charge whatever price he wanted and the medical insurance companies would have to pay it.

        What he did with the money who knows and whether he made true on the promise to give the product away to uninsured patients is another story.

      • Oofy Doofy on 05/01/2024 - 12:24

        Him raising the price made it viable for pharma companies to make better drugs for the particular condition it treated. He said nobody lost out to getting the drug despite the price increase, and he said anyone who may have fallen into the cracks only needed to have their doctor/hospital contact the company and they'd let people have it for free.

        He literally priced it based on opportunity in the market once his company owned it, and has stated many times he just took Warren Buffett's advice about pricing.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/01/2024 - 10:32
      +1

      Shkreli is a huge pile of excrement.

    • SolitaryMan on 05/01/2024 - 21:24

      Should we talk about how he went to prison?

      • Oofy Doofy on 06/01/2024 - 17:16
        -1

        And? What about it?

        • SolitaryMan on 06/01/2024 - 18:00
          -1

          Remind us what he went to prison for, and what you’re recommending people take advice from him about?

          • Oofy Doofy on 06/01/2024 - 20:37

            @SolitaryMan: Because he's showing you things other people charge money for, for free. Valuable skills.

  • CyberMurning on 04/01/2024 - 09:04
    +1

    paid trading courses are not good, but there are many good books and online resources.

  • Dollar General on 04/01/2024 - 09:19
    +1

    There’s some reputable ones out there.

    Mark Minervini runs an excellent course and Trader Lion is also great. I haven’t done either but have been following their work for some time now

  • LFO on 04/01/2024 - 10:45
    +5

    Reminds me of those selling "computer programs" to win the lottery.
    As someone already mentioned: if they know how to always win, why on earth will be selling their system to then share each win?

    • hasher22 on 04/01/2024 - 20:44
      +1

      Exactly. This what gets me.

      I see so many ads "I sold over 2000 of these lamps in a month and I'll show you how! we will pick you a winning Amazon product to sell! Guaranteed!"

      I'm like… Well, if you know the winning products then why are you exposing yourself? Why don't you sell the winning products and keep the profit?

      People get reeled in by the thought of get rich schemes.

  • Sinnerator on 04/01/2024 - 11:15
    +2

    a few courses are reputable (most are scams) BUT it takes a special type of person to be able to consistently trade successfully, are you that special type of person?

    • bargain huntress on 04/01/2024 - 14:56

      What attributes does the right person have?

      • Antikythera on 04/01/2024 - 18:55

        high disposable income

    • Cluster on 05/01/2024 - 13:58
      +1

      That's the thing, everyone thinks they are that special type of person.

      Go to your local casino and ask random people if they expect to win. They all do, even though most will not. Same thing with trading extremely volatile commodities like crypto. Everyone thinks they'll win.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2024 - 17:10
    +1

    I mean if you do enough digging, coughcough let's say on torrents you can literally find every course available in regards to Amazon FBA, Trading on various platforms and or Spotify etc

    • bargain huntress on 04/01/2024 - 18:34
      +1

      🤣 kind of serves them right doesnt it

  • gromit on 04/01/2024 - 18:09
    +3

    If they were so incredibly successful they would not be wasting time selling their knowledge to victims, they would be simply letting the money roll in from their highly lucrative trading.

  • amzinguserman on 04/01/2024 - 18:23
    +4

    No one will share the secret to their wealth legitimately. No one smart wants to saturate their own market.

    The M.O is weirdly the same , they been lucky to be born into rich families or have had some luck VERY early in the crypto game.

    The ones i can think of are @new.money.official thats selling useless courses for $500+ or his friend @tashinvest who's dad is the General Manager at mining company but gives "financial coaching" advice for $200 a pop.

  • Ughhh on 04/01/2024 - 20:17
    +2

    I know someone who tried dropshipping, but got no where. Now heshe sells courses on how to do it.
    The saying "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach." could not be more true.

    • McFly on 04/01/2024 - 21:43

      They/them?

      • Ughhh on 05/01/2024 - 00:17

        No, Does it matter?…
        Trying to keep it vague.

  • frugalftw on 04/01/2024 - 21:18
    -3

    No, they are not all scammers. If a single person has ever found value in the course, then the teacher has every reason to be. Trading well requires confidence, just as any other trade, but I’d say a much stronger requirement. A good teacher is able to instil this for their student, regardless of the teachings. Teaching is an art that requires a ton of skills of its own, a great trader do not automatically make a great teacher. You know this through parenting multiple children. (Adults aren’t better students than children, because children are able to be fully open and retain the materials a lot easier. While adults have the advanced communication skills, whatever you are pouring out might just go over them.)

    And to respond to all the comments on ‘if they are so good they wouldn’t have to be teaching’: not everyone does everything for money, but if you decide that is how the world is, there’s not a lot of room of possibilities for you to ever meet a teacher who is also a true master of their trade. It’s not that hard to imagine someone who is so good at trading and they know they don’t have to do anything but choose to. Obvious examples are celebrities: they already have plenty but do not just stop working. And they would usually mentor others too. It’s a basic human need to contribute to community (ie not always a conscious choice, especially if you come from a culture where you were raised to think collectively), same reason people responded here to share their own perspectives, same reason people share deals on this site.

    • gummibear on 05/01/2024 - 02:55
      +2

      And to respond to all the comments on ‘if they are so good they wouldn’t have to be teaching’: not everyone does everything for money

      If they gave their knowledge/ courses away for free then you might be right. However they charge for these courses so we can assume they are doing it for money

      • frugalftw on 05/01/2024 - 09:39
        +1

        That’s an interesting assumption to make. If your parents charge you rent, they must not love you then?

      • BoltThrower on 08/01/2024 - 02:01

        It may be a fair assumption and 90% of the time you'd be right about them being motivated by money.
        However consider that these people's (if they're successful traders) time is worth money. There's no shortage of free groups.
        If you've paid $500 for a course, you ARE going to study it. Whether the mentor is motivated by money or not, they're motivated by removing time-wasters.
        They likely have Discord servers that they don't want to fill with spammers, beggars, and askholes. They want people with "skin in the game", who are serious about learning. The funny thing about many people is that they won't value something that's free.
        Chances are you've seen a Discord server or two in your time and you likely turn off notifications on the free ones because they're spammy.
        Many will offer Free and Paid sections to earn while you learn and upgrade.
        These sentiments above have been curated from many groups and people. You can make up your own mind as to whether that's just a marketing ploy or not.

  • Alexxx on 04/01/2024 - 21:48
    +2

    I think they are a scam, unless they are affiliated with some educational institution.
    ASX does have free courses though.
    https://www.asx.com.au/investors/investment-tools-and-resour…

  • Penguin30 on 05/01/2024 - 00:16
    +1

    If they can't tell you what price is doing before hand and actually trade it live to teach with executions shown most likely they are frauds.

  • Herbse on 05/01/2024 - 00:32
    -1

    The only people who make money from crypto are the ones tell others how to make money from crypto

  • digitalbath on 05/01/2024 - 08:05

    Just don’t tell the person in the other thread who is buying houses because a priest told them to.

  • mrvaluepack on 05/01/2024 - 08:19
    +2

    They are teaching you "techniques" that you could learn yourself for free online if you know how to search but in saying that this applies to a lot of other industries.

    The problem is these "techniques" do not really work and you won't know when to apply them.

    So I would say it isn't a scam if all they do is teach you the methods but it is a scam if its advertised as a guaranteed money making system.

  • wau2 on 05/01/2024 - 08:43
    +2

    Watch the market or even do the asx game (fake money to invest for like 30 days). You will figure out if it’s for you and what your preferences are like. I’ve been trading casually for over 5 years, I tend to stick to blue chip or large corporates, trading in weekly movement. Lose some win some. But overall still positive. Treat it as a learning experience and a bit of fun

  • Roe Jogan on 05/01/2024 - 09:13
    +2

    YES, stop looking for quick ways to get rich, it does not exist, besides for selling courses

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