Bitcoin ETFs Approved by The SEC

Lbargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 11:48
Last edited 11/01/2024 - 11:50

It has finally happened after an alleged "hack" of the SEC's X (formerly Twitter) account jumping the gun yesterday, Bitcoin ETFs in the US has now arrived, potentially opening the flood gates for retail, institutional and pension funds to have exposure in Bitcoin without having to worry about the loss of private keys and interacting with the blockchain.

To me, this kinda defeats the purpose of Bitcoin, but it is an overall positive because it will increase adoption in this space, so that will outweigh any negatives.

Do you guys hold any Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies? I know they have a bad rap and has been dissed by this community, but reality and the market has proven those people wrong. It is a fact that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have outperformed many shares and property returns in even Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

The SEC has now fully endorsed Bitcoin and its impossible for the US to ban Bitcoin. Does this change your view on Bitcoin, are you going to be buying some now?

I've started buying Bitcoin last year, I have an average volume weighted price of around $28500 per Bitcoin I hold and around $1900 per ETH. I have a handful of other alts, but BTC and ETH make up the majority of my portfolio.

Poll Options expired

  • 69
    I already hold Bitcoin
  • 7
    I will now look into buying Bitcoin
  • 140
    I will still not buy Bitcoin (its a scam)
Financial Cryptocurrency

Comments

  • jv on 11/01/2024 - 11:50
    -5

    Approved by The SEC

    Is that still going ahead now that Dan's gone?

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 11:51
      +2

      Lmao, this has nothing to do with Dan. Even if Dan was here, he can't stop Bitcoin. No government can, just ask China, they are trying, but failing.

      • jv on 11/01/2024 - 12:05
        +1

        He wanted to set up the SEC.

      • KangaDrew on 11/01/2024 - 12:07
        +17

        JV's attempt at wordplay humour is usually pretty cringe, bordering on lame. Best to ignore and move on.

    • illusion99 on 12/01/2024 - 19:59

      hi hungry, I'm dad

  • Fredfloresjr on 11/01/2024 - 12:01
    -1

    The future.

  • Dollar General on 11/01/2024 - 12:15
    +2

    What’s the use case for Bitcoin as after all these years I still haven’t seen one?

    Now Wall St will just manipulate it

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 12:28
      +3

      Here's a few just off the top of my head

      1. Decentralised and censorship resistant network - no government or court can confiscate your Bitcoin as long as they can't take your private keys
      2. Store of wealth and wealth generation

      Now Wall St will just manipulate it

      They don't manipulate shares and property? That's not really a disadvantage, in fact it shows that Bitcoin has made it, it is now worth their time to manipulate just like shares and property.

      • payless69 on 11/01/2024 - 12:35
        -4

        Lol, they turn off the access, clear out your exchange

        • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 12:59
          +10

          I store my crypto on a Ledger Nano, can't turn off my access to that

      • richadam on 11/01/2024 - 12:35

        long as they can't take your private keys

        Yes but if you have it stored in an exchange like a lot of general users do. Then they can.

      • Dollar General on 11/01/2024 - 12:39

        Decentralised is just a word that gets thrown around for bitcoin. It means nothing in the real world. Cash is better

        How is it a store of wealth? Have a look at the chart for bitcoin. People who bought in 2020/21 have lost money. I’ve seen collector cards & shoes have better wealth generation

        • redfox1200 on 11/01/2024 - 15:41
          -4

          apart from about a 2 month window, everyone who has ever bought bitcoin is currently in profit.

          • Drpepper666 on 11/01/2024 - 15:49
            +3

            @redfox1200: 100% wrong

            • redfox1200 on 11/01/2024 - 15:51

              @Drpepper666: ok a 4 month window…

              • GregRust on 12/01/2024 - 17:37
                +1

                @redfox1200: So you’re just pulling numbers out of thin air at this point.

                • redfox1200 on 12/01/2024 - 20:35

                  @GregRust: Go look at the charts, theres only been about 4 months in its whole existence that's less than the current price

                  • Mikeer on 13/01/2024 - 10:52

                    @redfox1200:

                    about 4 months in its whole existence that's less than the current price

                    Surely you meant to say the opposite…

                    • redfox1200 on 14/01/2024 - 11:06

                      @Mikeer: No bitcoin had only been lower than its current price for about 4 months total

      • MantistobogganMD on 11/01/2024 - 12:51
        -1

        the part that worries me is everytime there is a massive dip the exchanges freeze withdrawals.
        granted no-one can confiscate it but they can restrict your access to it

        • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 13:00
          +4

          You buy and withdraw immediately, that's what I've been doing this past year

        • EightImmortals on 11/01/2024 - 13:22
          +6

          I've seen the same thing happen a few times with the stock market too.

      • DingoBilly on 11/01/2024 - 14:23

        These are both incorrect. It annoys the hell out of me how little people understand about their finances and how much risk they're willing to put into it. It's why I can't invest in it as there really is little use case for it and people advocating for it are easily disproven.

        For no. 1, see:
        https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/cryptoasset-realization-exp…

        It's easy for government to seize your crypto. Time has shown that because everything is public, everything is completely traceable. If government deems your activity illegal they can seize it. It's the perfect government coin actually as it allows full control of anyone to see what you are doing, and can be traced back to an exchange with credentials. It's an accountant's wet dream.

        For no. 2:
        You are mistaking past history for the future. It is easy to point to something that is valuable now and say "Look, it's valuable!" You have zero clue what happens tomorrow. Maybe AI can figure out how to undo the whole block chain which means it's now worth $0. Maybe it goes to $1 million per BTC. We have no clue and you're guessing/gambling.

        • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 14:29

          For no. 1
          I didn't say its impossible for governments to seize your crypto, just hard. There are mixer services which makes it harder to trace, or you can exchange your Bitcoin into privacy coins like XMR, then its impossible to trace. The point is, its harder for governments to take, alot harder than some house, luxury car or jewelry.

          For no.2
          Everyone is guessing. Do you think property will definitely increase? Property investors are also guess/gambling, same goes for shares.
          Investing is gambling, there's no such thing as a sure thing.

          • DingoBilly on 11/01/2024 - 14:39
            +1

            @bargainhunter168: There is no service that can hide your activity. Even mixers have been shown to not work and major players who have mixed their coin have had it all traced. Again, it's all there, you can hide it however you want but it's all there publicly. XMR covers that yes, but we're not talking about that, Just BTC.

            And for 2, there is such a thing as risk. Do I know that stocks and properties will rise? No. Are they highly likely to rise? Yes. Crypto is a completely different level of risk and it's unclear whether it's of any value long term. Time has shown that lower risk options are more likely to make you wealthy due to the fact they are more predictable.

            Otherwise by your logic, you may as well go to the casino and take a few flips on roulette. It's just a high risk investment at end of day.

            • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 14:46
              +1

              @DingoBilly: The good thing is that DEXes and mixers exist, so its not too hard to hide your tracks.

              There risks in any investment, and one of the biggest risk of crypto has been eliminated today. The risk of it being banned by governments is real, that's what kept me out of the crypto market all these years, but once I saw that it had a good chance of getting legitimised (a chance because I bought Bitcoin before the SEC lost the case, so there's risk there).

              • DingoBilly on 11/01/2024 - 15:00

                @bargainhunter168: Even using mixers can be traced, and high profile criminals have been caught with all their mixed coins being tracked. Again, you need to deposit money using credentials, and then withdraw them at some point if you want to use them, at least as it currently stands. So no, it doesn't offer you anything privacy wise.

                And again, I feel like you're misusing risk. I have a pretty good reason for why stocks and property values will go up. It's relatively easy to make an argument for it.

                If you look at crypto, the argument for it is….? It has no inherent value. It has nothing backing it besides faith. The risk is significantly higher. Also - you have to remember that nothing stops the government from going back on their word and banning it. You act like it's a done deal when it's still just a new technology and noone knows what to do with it yet.

                • netjock on 11/01/2024 - 16:13
                  +1

                  @DingoBilly: When people are talking their own book (up the value of their investments on their books) they will find anything to back it up.

                  Once they tell you it is "digital gold" it tells you everything. Only people who make money out of gold ETFs are people who charge a fee to run those ETFs (and store physical gold) and traders (if they are good traders but most traders lose money).

                • resisting the urge on 12/01/2024 - 23:56

                  @DingoBilly: Reality is that most money is already transacted digitally, and the rest is set to go electronic in quite short order.

                  Traceability is the driver, not financial corporations. Governments want control and traceability. While regulated currencies gave them control, but criminals can and do launder most of their funds using Fiat currencies and Financial institutions make a lot of money out of them as well as everyone else.

                  Bitcoin provides transparency and also supports traceability in a practical sense (basic privacy is built in, and is also easy for governments and institutions to surveil. The transactions are atomic and immutable. They can be used to trace funds, and the data is legally admissible, so is regularly used to prove ownership and track transfers. These records are far more reliable than records from numerous parties and jurisdictions, and are easier to collect, too.

                  The only question is whether we want public transparency, and:

                  • Accept the idea that banking institutions are capable of handling everything in house with their custom built, poorly maintained logic built by people who left decades ago (Eg COBOL, T-SQL, XML, etc.), running on porous systems connected to constantly compromised Internet-connected networks.
                  • Trust blockchains of their choosing as the bible of our financial affairs, controlled by them, all potentially hackable so transactions can be analysed, modified and/or reversed by multiple actors.
                  • Accept that the technology supporting the blockchains they use is practically robust (as opposed to something battle hardened as much as Bitcoin)

                  History tells us only that the systems 'they' choose will be abused. The question is how much of our assets are stolen (in fees and misappropriations) and if we can survive the transition without catastrophic failures, and potentially, complete collapse.

                  Given that governments know well how expensive it cvan be to underwrite a currency, it will be interesting to see of they will risk underwriting their choice of CBDC. I doubt in this day and age that they would even underwrite Bitcoin, unless they were encouraged to do so deliberately and corruptly.

        • TheBilly on 23/01/2024 - 14:56

          Is use case the benchmark for which items you choose to invest in?

          Say you buy Apple shares, what is the use case for it? or precious metals?

          Almost everything is just a speculative item that has been tokenized in some form or the other.

          I somewhat agree with your point 1 and 2 though.

          But I would state that point 1 and 2 applies to almost everything (shares, property, precious metals, currency). I don't think that those points necessarily make one type of asset better or worse than crypto, as the principles can be applied to all.

          What I consider to be a good investment is risk adjusted return ratios - throw aside the asset class (crypto, property, gold, silver, shares blah blah blah). What has good risk ratios.

          https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/riskadjustedreturn.asp#….

      • trapper on 12/01/2024 - 18:09
        +3

        no government or court can confiscate your Bitcoin as long as they can't take your private keys

        Of course they can. A court order is legally binding, and compliance is not optional; it is mandatory under the law.

      • buffalo bill on 12/01/2024 - 22:18

        Yeah they can blacklist your holdings are proceeds of crime or otherwise. It's not fungible.

    • mskeggs on 11/01/2024 - 16:16
      +4

      Money laundering, ransom ware, tax avoidance, buying child abuse pornography - the list is endless.

      • Dollar General on 11/01/2024 - 16:22
        +1

        Fair point. I stand corrected

    • AustriaBargain on 12/01/2024 - 17:28
      +1

      I mean it helps deflate the housing bubble if people invest in coins instead of houses. But it consumes a lot of energy/creates a lot of pollution. It creates chip shortages because investing in new coin means buying up chips. Also when coin bubble bursts for the last time a lot of people will end up broke, but that can happen with housing bubble too because one day the Greens will get into power and we'll have modern high density housing with public transport connected to it and all those million dollar shacks won't be worth a million dollars anymore. And even if a million dollar shack would be nice to have, by the time the greens get full power we'll all be living with AR/VR headsets anyway and even in Alice Springs you'll have your 50 foot tall ceilings and harbour side views (until you take your AR contact lenses out anyway).

    • nobro25 on 12/01/2024 - 17:38
      +3

      You can buy Pizzas with it.

    • Toffees on 12/01/2024 - 18:22
      +1

      It doesn't inflate away like the dollars in your bank account

  • Cluster on 11/01/2024 - 12:38
    +3

    Bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized, but it's becoming ever more centralized.

    Wallets on exchanges, centralized trading, and now people buying ETFs stored at a few companies. Satoshi would be turning in his grave.

    But whatever, who cares. Line go up.

    • Poor Ass on 19/02/2024 - 00:04

      Satoshi should still be alive

  • BoltThrower on 11/01/2024 - 13:01
    +4

    Yep. I swapped some BTC for ETH prior to the approval. It's been a good month.

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 13:01
      +2

      That's a good trade, ETH ETFs will be next

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 13:17

        i sure hope so.

      • CrazyTachikoma on 11/01/2024 - 15:11
        +4

        ETH is a security according to the SEC, while Bitcoin was admitted to be a commodity for years now

        as holder I'd like to believe it will get its ETF, but realistically it should get rejected

        maybe after Ripple and other projects actually fully win over the SEC, then that can open a path

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 13:11
    +6

    i am literally hyperventilating on hopium rn with the run ETH has…might have a chance of getting back in the black..by 2029 at this rate :')

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 14:05

      ETH can blast past its previous ATH this year, don't need to wait till 2029.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 14:06
        +1

        as someone who got rekt going balls deep at ath, i sure hope so

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 13:11
    +3

    uncle @rektrading if you still out there I am thinking of you

  • Fredfloresjr on 11/01/2024 - 13:15

    Been playing my CS (Counterstrike) skins and Bitcoin as my hobby at the start of 2023. Late to the party yes, but ain't too bad generating $$$ and building my portfolio.

    Gonna love the market relationship of the two. ^_^

  • EightImmortals on 11/01/2024 - 13:24
    +1

    Isn't there another halvening happening this year? They're usually good for a bull run.

  • brendanm on 11/01/2024 - 13:41
    +1

    The SEC has now fully endorsed Bitcoin

    I don't think they did this.

    While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin.

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 14:04

      Gary also released a statement essentially saying, they didn't want to approve it but was forced to by the courts.

      It doesn't matter, Bitcoin ETFs are legal, its now impossible for the US government to ban it.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 14:07

        gary must be fuming lol

        • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 14:12
          +1

          Have you read his statement? He is obviously fuming, he was like 20 previous applications has been denied but the court had to overturn their last denial saying the reasons for denial were not valid, the SEC cannot think of better reasons to deny so they were forced by the court to approve (because if they tried to deny again with dodgy reasons, it will be overturned again by the court).

          So funny, I knew its pretty much approved when the SEC got slapped by the judge, I loaded up alot after that.

          • netjock on 11/01/2024 - 16:09
            -1

            @bargainhunter168: Courts rule on matter of the law not on moral grounds. Let that sink in.

      • GrueHunter on 12/01/2024 - 19:34

        The SEC has now fully endorsed Bitcoin
        They didn't want to approve it but was forced to by the courts

        …which is it? Oh wait

        It doesn't matter,

        Well that's convenient

  • CrazyTachikoma on 11/01/2024 - 14:20

    Do you guys hold any Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

    nah just a little bit, if things go well maybe can buy a house :D

    solana mostly

  • CrazyTachikoma on 11/01/2024 - 15:12
    +3

    2/3 of votes so far saying BTC is a scam

    boy we are still early

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 15:19
      +1

      Yep, its a good indicator, we are still pretty early, very good.

  • Drpepper666 on 11/01/2024 - 15:22
    +1

    Threads like this from new members are good sell indicator

    • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 15:25

      lol, that's pretty funny.

      • Drpepper666 on 19/01/2024 - 13:42
        +1

        I made that comment on the 12 month peak price. Downhill since then . Lol

        • bargainhunter168 on 21/01/2024 - 23:27
          -1

          Have you looked at the charts? Its clear that it has hit a bottom and is rebounding.

          Same goes for shares and property price for that matter. Are you going to say property prices hit a peak and then downhill since then? You just described a market cycle.

          Yes, a market hits a peak, then its downhill from there until the trough, then it goes up, usually exceeding the previous peak to create a new peak, then repeat.

          For Bitcoin, look at the previous 4 year cycle, notably the peak of the previous cycle was $19900 USD. Is it "downhill" since then? The peak of the cycle before that was $1100 USD. Is it "downhill" since then?

    • bargainhunter168 on 21/01/2024 - 23:29
      -1

      Just remember to buy back in if you sell lmao.

      Reminder on the previous Bitcoin peak:
      $100
      $1100
      $19900

      If you sold in one of the previous 3 peaks, you might feel good about it, until it gets exceeded by the next peak lmao.

  • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 15:39
    +1

    So far, my crypto portfolio is doing much better than my friends who have invested in property. So glad I chose crypto.

    • redfox1200 on 11/01/2024 - 15:48
      +1

      just remember to sell before the 90% drop

      • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 15:51

        I have observed the previous 3 cycles, I will definitely take some profits, but there will be a portion which I will hodl.

        Bitcoin's peak last cycle was $69k USD which it will surpass for sure. The previous cycle was $19.9k USD and $1100 USD the cycle before that.

        Each cycle it fell 70-90%, but it doesn't really matter when the trend is up.

        Asset prices have cycles, I've heard alot of these "cycles" from property investing friends. When they are in negative equity, they always say, "cycle, it will come back up". The same will apply for Bitcoin and other good quality cryptos.

        • redfox1200 on 11/01/2024 - 15:54
          +2

          yes but if you sell at the top and buy after a 90% dip you can 3x your bitcoin each time, rather than hodling.

          i have a friend at work who bought 10k worth of LINK and it got to about 1.5 million, now its back down to about 400k.

          • bargainhunter168 on 11/01/2024 - 15:56
            +1

            @redfox1200: I'm a realist, no one is gonna be able to sell at the top, no one knows what the top will be, only in hindsight will you see the top.

            As for your friends, $10k to $400k is still pretty good. A much better investment than an investment property.

            • CrazyTachikoma on 11/01/2024 - 16:09
              +1

              @bargainhunter168: technically, 1 guy will sell at the top

            • BoltThrower on 13/01/2024 - 08:40

              @bargainhunter168: It's not impossible, and not perfect, but you can get glimpses behind the curtain. Take a look at CoinGlass charts for "aggregated liquidations". The markets will rise up high enough to liquidate the short-sellers before a drop. When BTC hit $49k, there was 7.75m in liquidated shorts before the drop. There were a few following candles that tested the water higher and when there was no more short orders, the price reversed.
              There's another tool called aggr.trade which gives audible alerts of liquidations and lets you set thresholds for example $100k+ Takes a bit of fiddling, make sure to mute the regular orders.
              This by itself isn't a trading signal, but to be used in conjunction with technical analysis.

          • Jimothy Wongingtons on 11/01/2024 - 20:33
            +1

            @redfox1200:

            link

            Damn I would prob never recover from that kind of high…

        • Poor Ass on 19/02/2024 - 00:05

          Bitcoin's peak last cycle was $69k USD which it will surpass for sure

          Let's hope so anyway

  • netjock on 11/01/2024 - 16:07
    -3

    You know why they want a Bitcoin ETF right? The management fees. Follow the money. People can gamble on Bitcoin. Long there is a big enough market and there is big enough fees someone will decide to design an ETF.

    It is regular investors that will be left holding the bag like Celcius / Voyager / DeFi mining scams.

    • techlead on 12/01/2024 - 10:29

      Unless there's fraud, spot ETFs must hold the corresponding amount of Bitcoin, it is always backed by Bitcoin.

      • netjock on 12/01/2024 - 11:09

        Think you miss the point of my comment which is ETFs are for the management fees. Nothing to do with adoption. Just as there is many different ETFs or same strategy just different fee structure.

        Re: backing Bitcoin maximalists love to change the topic.

        Celcius had people's coins as security and had security over the lending but look what happened.

  • Tiredman on 11/01/2024 - 16:15
    +3

    Been buying since 2016. Will keep buying.

    • netjock on 11/01/2024 - 16:30
      -3

      I know a few people who throw good money after bad.

      • techlead on 12/01/2024 - 10:28
        +1

        Throwing good money after bad is definitely not a good strategy.

        However, that doesn't apply here, I've thrown good money at Bitcoin, which has turned golden, so I'm throwing more money after that good money.

        • netjock on 12/01/2024 - 11:09
          +1

          Same things boomers say about property

  • Farrba on 11/01/2024 - 16:22
    +1

    my holdings from 2021 still down 80% :(

    • Tiredman on 11/01/2024 - 17:17

      Too much shitcoins.

    • techlead on 12/01/2024 - 10:27

      You might have too much alts in your portfolio lmao

      • Farrba on 13/01/2024 - 00:04

        only dot lrc ftm dent, still down 80%

        even my sol is still in red. 2021 was a bad timing for me.

        • techlead on 06/02/2024 - 12:07

          They might be still red now, doesn't mean it will always be red.

          When you invest in property, you are instantly in the red due to all the costs, like stamp duty, lawyer fees etc and you need wait for the market to move in order to break even.

  • capslock janitor on 11/01/2024 - 18:03

    HODL

  • Sye on 12/01/2024 - 00:46
    +1

    Buy the dip. If it keeps dipping, keep buying.
    /$

    • techlead on 12/01/2024 - 10:27
      +1

      Yep, that was a great strategy for me, I just kept buying all last year. Now everything is green!

  • TheCosmicOctopus on 12/01/2024 - 09:35

    Just had to come, comment for posterity, to laugh at the people still clicking it's a scam. I know that 50% of all people are dumber than the average IQ but it's hard to imagine that many stupid people until you see them in the wild.

    Everyone will buy BTC at the price they deserve.

    • techlead on 12/01/2024 - 10:25
      +1

      So true. Bitcoin is definitely not a scam at this point, it has been proven beyond any doubt now. With the SEC approving spot ETFs, its also very hard for Bitcoin to be banned in the future which was one of the key risks, because if all Western countries banned it, it still wouldn't kill it, but it will reduce its adoption for a while, Bitcoin will survive, but it would just be a set back.

      I know that 50% of all people are dumber than the average IQ

      That's only true if IQ is distributed normally where the median and mean is the same for a population of people's IQ's. It is more mathematically correct to say the median because that will always hold true, 50% of people will be below the median all the time no matter what kind of distribution the population is.

    • Never Pay RRP on 12/01/2024 - 10:29
      +2

      The only poll option for someone not planning to buy bitcoin includes the text about it being a scam. There is currently no option for “I’m not planning to buy it but I don’t think it’s a scam”
      Also you seem quite triggered by people not investing in bitcoin, attacking their intelligence and IQ. I’d recommend some introspection

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