Got pulled over today, I was in the middle lane and merged left across the solid line to turn left at the lights. This is a 70km zone, cars are wizzing by constantly, it's not possible to slow to a crawl from 70 holding up traffic and safely merge with only 2 car length of distance.
The copper was nice enough and gave a warning, upon asking how I could have merged otherwise he said to go down a block and loop back. I mean, fine… alas this seems very poorly designed, no?
You can go back in time on street view and see how that strip of paint has changed. It's been on and off a few times over the past 10 years. But mostly it seems like the they've wanted the white line solid up to the intersection (no merge possible). Looks like some road works has removed the road section containing that last bit of solid white line and when they've repaved after the road works, they haven't repainted the line. Then it's been repainted and been solid up until the September 2023 mark where they've put in a few meters of broken white line, presumably to allow you to merge over at the last second. Though that would be quite a poor merge even under the best conditions. You'd be merging to flowing traffic and then braking late to make the turn. It seems the intention of the unbroken line is to stop this from happening.
Does deserve a letter asking for a better resolution there.
It doesn't appear to follow austroads design guidelines
Nope, there is actually a sign for the center lane that there is no Left Turn onto Morrison Road that shows up after the bridge.
There is no way for OP to turn onto Morrison Road legally from the road he is on. Even if he tried to go up the off-ramp, there's no way to go straight back down the on-ramp to the Morrison Road turnoff. Getting on Morrison Road is ugly , with the best way looking like going down Belmore Street
We have a winner. Good spotting.
Good spotting.
In other people's posts? Or didn't you notice them?
Should have turn left at Albanese Road instead…
Lodge it with Dept Transport and road Assoc. Let them pursue a fix. Expect 10 years….
….Until they email you back, saying they will take a look at it in the next business decade.
I would love to hear your proposal for how OP could have moved over earlier..
Do you mean merge into the tunnel wall?
Cross the solid line earlier (the solid line that OP already got a warning for crossing)?
Maybe take the previous exit and end up in completely different areas to where OP was trying to go?
Sydney is a difficult place to drive
Absolutely, and probably will get worse as more roads are retrofit into more lanes and bigger intersections.
Sydney is a difficult place to drive
It's just shocking how bad it is, cannot understate how stupidly designed the roads are there.
@Ghost47: Driving in Sydney (I'm from Victoria) makes me nervous every time. Narrow lanes & twisty roads in suburban areas, in a rental car not familiar with. Fun times.
@Randolph Duke: Not only that but the drivers are a lot more aggressive. Which is basically the way you need to drive in Sydney, if you're relaxed and take it easy people will just cut you off, honk at you etc.
Thinking you kinda badass huh?
Difficult? maybe for you
I hadn't looked at the linked street view. Didn't even see it.
Sydney is a difficult place to drive and a lot of people aren't up to the task.
And some people aren't up to the task of clicking on the first link in a post. You lose some you lose some.
I do like how an important sign has fine print.
You're not meant to turn left there coming from the underpass.
Rather, take the Victoria Rd exit, or next left as the copper says.
Maybe actually look at the linked streetview before insulting OP. And demonstrating that you don't know what you are talking about.
Google maps ref and/or MS Paint required
Can we get a paint pic? Trying to understand this!
Click on OPs link
This is a 70km zone,
Nope, it's 60km zone
consider yourself very lucky he gave you a warning and not a fine
illegal
Man, that officer must have been boooored to even pull you over just to issue a warning, sheesh.
I certainly feel a lot safer knowing police are doing these types of useful things.
Edit, forgot the /s
The real question here is - did you get your cashback from Canon?
Also, if you swing around to the right in OP's street view link you get to see the new 2024 six wheel Camry.
What's the current wait time on new 2024 six wheel Camry?
Asking for a friend.
Between 69 and 420 days.
Nice.
I'm still waiting for my 5 wheel Reliant Robin.
Yeah I did, had to get it escalated to another dept, perhaps I should get a lottery ticket after today…
Great news. Well done.
I note it's the taxi-only model…. bigger boot, but not much in it for drivers/passengers.
Slightly scared to ask… what's the flagfall and per km charge on one of those suckers?
It's supposed to be a solid line all the way until the traffic light. There is a no left turn sign just before where you are. It seems the paint has either come of or something.
See solid line in 2022.
No left turn sign albeit you'd think there would be the same sign at the intersection?
EDIT:
OK, I think the 2 right lanes can't turn left which is why the sign is visible only there. Those who are already in the left lane can turn left. Those in right two lanes can't go into left lane.
If you go further back you can see in March 2020 lines have faded again but by November 2020, they are repainted. I'm guessing a lot of people illegally cross that solid line to make a left and thus why it's constantly faded.
I 'feels' like they want to let the left most on ramp to be able to turn left, but not vehicles already on Devlin. But they also want cars on the on ramp to merge right before the intersection. Maybe so they aren't stuck behind a car waiting to turn left?
I agree with OP it is confusingly marked.
Ah, that's my bad then, didn't even notice that sign further back, I saw the truck one when closer to the turn only. Fair enough, shall be more careful going forward. Ta
Not a very big sign at that! Think it should be made MUCH bigger & possibly another at the traffic lights?
I’m in Victoria & not familiar with any of these streets but could there even be a sign instructing drivers to turn left “at this street” for access to “this street”?
Agreed. If coppers are going to be strict about this, I’d atleast expect the sign to be somewhat prominent. Good on you op. Safe travels!
You did cross a solid line. Seems clear cut, even if it is poorly designed. Guessing the road designer wanted solid flow out of the tunnel.
Yep - my thoughts too.
The road design does not permit people coming off the ramp to move over too soon, or the people coming under to move over too soon.
Makes it tough for turners - but that's how its marked.
ah that one.
Everybody crosses that line when safe to do so, you got unlucky that there was a copper nearby.
Normally there's so much traffic that it's impossible to merge left anyway and I generally do end up going to the next street.
I have to agree though after looking at that google images shot, that is pretty profanity annoying to have such a long solid line right up to almost where you need to need to turn left at the traffic lights.
Wonder if the cop hangs around there waiting for vulnerable drivers…
Wonder if the cop hangs around there waiting for vulnerable drivers…
To give them a warning? 🤔
Yeah you're probably right. The cop might agree internally that it's a bad design hence the warning
In another life I've crossed that line many times because the left lane is often empty.
This whole intersection is a nightmare so I'm not surprised it's a no right turn from those two right hand lanes.
Oh yeah thats pretty rough. I think you'd be foolish waiting for that solid line to finish before getting into that lane.
The solid line could be intentionally long to deter drivers to merge left as it could be prone to accidents otherwise, with the heavy flow of traffic coming down that ramp, even those drivers cannot merge right until after the lights, so safe to assume, not many people turn left, unless you are already in the left lane
Consider yourself lucky , you should be greatful there was no infringement issued
what a power trip. poor design
Solution.
Make the solid line continue up to the lights, so only left lane drivers can legally turn left, save everyone the headache.
ah, looks like Neil already confirmed all this above, legend.
my guess is the dash line at the intersection is to prevent through traffic in the left hand lane being stuck behind blocked left turners when the right lane is clear to merge into.
Officer must have just been returning from a trip to Chubby buns
It looks like a year 10 work experience student designed this intersection.
I would say they need to put a concrete lane divider in the road because if their intention is for people to not turn/merge left from the centre lane at all then they should make that abundantly clear and not with a sign at the end of the tunnel with "At Morrison Rd" in fine print on it.
You should write to the road authority or whoever manages this strip of road and tell them it needs to be fixed.
Just be a dick about it and slow down in the middle lane to change lanes near the lights… hey it's legal.
Nek minnit - charged with obstructing traffic
Its not a stupid design. The reason its a solid line almost to the intersection is because that's a NO LEFT TURN intersection.
The sign saying NO LEFT TURN AT MORRISON ST is a bit further back up the road.
If the OP merged left across the solid line, then turned left at the lights, he should have been booked for that.
The only stupidities I see are that there no NO LEFT TURN sign at the intersection for the people like the OP who weren't paying attention when they passed the previous sign, and the LOAD LIMIT sign for Morrison St. Why tell you there's a load limit if you aren't allowed to turn onto it.
That No Left turn sign you're referring to is 400m up the road and there's no sign at the intersection on Morrison, so I think you'll find that sign is redundant. Roadworks/council crews likely forgot to remove it after they made the numerous broken/unbroken/broken/semi-unbroken line changes over the years.
Now I think about it, the reason there's no NO LEFT TURN sign at the intersection, and there is a LOAD LIMIT sign for the Morrison ST, is that you can turn left at the intersection, but only if you're in the left lane. If you're on Devlin St and therefore in the centre or right lane you've passed a NO LEFT TURN sign, it applies to you, and you can't turn left. If you're in the left lane you can.
The NO LEFT TURN sign and solid divider are there to stop precisely what the OP was trying to do. To push over into the left lane and turn left, and by trying to do that causing rear enders and other problems like being too busy concentrating on the traffic and missing the lights turning red at busy traffic times on Devlin St and the slip road.
There really needs to be a No Left Turn at Morrison for that first sign to have any relevance. A sign 400m away from an intersection means very little without the followup sign at the intersection (especially when it's a blink and you'll miss it/semi-sideways sign and there's an unbroken line at the intersection, allowing cars to cross over to the far left lane).
Either way, I think it's pretty clear that this is just another City of Ryde stuff up that should really be decided upon once and for all as to what they want to do. It's way too ambiguous as it stands today.
@KangaDrew: The left lane can turn left though.
Traffic coming down the right two lanes is not permitted to turn left, or to cross the solid line into the left lane. No left turns for them.
Then why have the broken line at the intersection then?
to let people merge right if the right lane(s) is empty and the left turning vehicle is at a dead stop blocking the left lane.
Ah, yes, this one. Shocking design. Really should put one of those blocker things along the lane divide and make people turn left at the next street down.
Agreed. Council need to make a firm decision on what they want to do, and if they decide it should be a no left turn, they should put a concrete road divider in to prevent drivers from turning into it. That whole stretch of road is a shitefight at the best of times.
The lanes are not wide enough for concrete dividers. Clearly the solid line should extend to the traffic lights, which would be all that is required to make the situation completely unambiguous.
Why are the lines broken right in front of the traffic light but solid before? Is this a Sydney thing? We have solid lines about 2 car lengths in front of traffic lights in WA
The dotted lines are for the pedestrian crossing. I just checked Google maps for a couple of other spots in Sydney and it looks like dotted lines are standard for pedestrian crossings.
There's a solid line on the other side of the road, where you would expect it to be so that cars stop before it.
There were solid lines to the traffic light until they changed it to broken lines a year or so ago. No idea how management decided that would be a good idea.
Ryde council took a bribe from the paint supplier
The copper was nice enough and gave a warning, upon asking how I could have merged otherwise he said to go down a block and loop back. I mean, fine… alas this seems very poorly designed, no?
Basically this for both points. The 'legal' way is you don't turn left as you can't merge.
But yeah, its a bad design indeed!
The problems start where ever the word MORRISONS appears.
I think I’ve solved it… move ahead on street view so that you get a proper view of the intersection… You’ll see skid marks on the road which turn left onto Morrison. The correct manoeuvre is a handbrake turn.
I drive on this road constantly, and that unbroken line is stupid AF.
From the looks from the incoming ramp traffic, it was broken lines then they painted it over to an unbroken line…. bad design.
There is a no left turn into Morrison road from your lane.
It is well posted.
It is dangerous to do so as the off ramp traffic typically arrives with speed (on your left).
You can take the next left (not the no entry road) and weave your way back.
OR, you can take the ramp up and then ramp back down and be in the correct lane.
But, if you are going to Royal Rehab or Putney shops you are better off taking earlier left hand turns to avoid Top Ryde Shopping congestion and the distributor entirely.
It is well posted.
Well posted? What, 400m back up the road? smh
No… no, it's not.
There are TWO signs - one at the start of the tunnel and one at the end.
That’s more than most intersections.
Ahh yes, you're correct. But that's still 200m up the road and not at the intersection.
There needs to be signs AT the intersection though. Those blink-or-you'll-miss-them signs are very easily blocked by traffic, trucks and the like. In order for the signs to be valid, there also needs to be a sign at the intersection. Especially since there is an unbroken line at the intersection, indicating that's possible to cross over and turn left.
@KangaDrew: But if you put the sign at the intersection, those in the left lane won't be able to turn left either.
@kerfuffle: Yeah, true - so there needs to be a sign to indicate that only the left lane can turn left.
@KangaDrew: Don't think that's a standard road sign. Do you have any examples of such a sign in Australia?
@KangaDrew: that's right, a truck could be in the left ramp lane, which could easily block the sign
council needs to make it more visible to everyone, like a hanging sign after the tunnel perhaps that tells the middle lane No Lefty Turny
Just turn left at the next street (Simpson), it's one block away, you will survive the extra 2 seconds this adds to your trip.
The famous left turn into Putney!
Depending on which way you came from (for example, from Eastwood), you could try continue on Victoria Road then turn into the area.
Coming from Pymble on Lane Cove Rd I take a left at Quarry Rd then take….
Gardener, Buffalo, Princess, Victoria and then Charles St.
Missing the Top Ryde Shops and the distributor.
(The traffic lights are favourable).
….the return journey is no good as the lights at Quarry Rd are not friendly when going back.
It's actually a 60kmh zone. I usually take the next exit and drive around.
Yep seems a really bad design