Tenant has been running aircon at 16c and for long hours. This caused drain leakage due to icing which resulted in staining of walls.
In this case, is it fair to pass drain unblocking charges to the tenant and ask them to do cleaning of wall stains?
Is Landlord or Tenant Responsible for Repairs?
ShazOz on 15/02/2024 - 18:53
closed Comments
16 degrees isn't normal use. Speaking as a tenant, not a landlord
Then why is it a setting?
Why does your car break if you ran it at max revs 24/7 in 1st gear? Why is it an option?
To answer your question less facetiously. Because the aircon gives you options for a range of humidities. You might be able to run 16 degrees in a dry heat like alice springs. You definitely can't run it at high humidity like in Darwin.
Speaking as someone who lived in Darwin for 6 years and dealt with 3 months of 36+ temps at 80%+ humidity.
@Tech5: Cars don't break if you run them at max revs in 1st gear. They might wear out quicker, but rev limiters have been a thing for a long time.
Get a better analogy.
@Mechz: What happens when it wears out? It breaks. In what world does something wearing out cause it to go to heaven or something? What do you think wearing out means lol
An aircon doesn’t break the first time you run it at 16 either
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
Like peeing into the wind.I don't see an issue with running an ac at 16c tho, of you have an undersized unit for the room size or are trying to cool the whole house I can understand someone turning it low as it can go and running it for hours.
The A/C's user manual is the only place we'll find out if it's considered normal operation that wouldn't breach warranty conditions.
If the landlord has made sure that's available to the tenant and it is not considered standard operation, then the responsibility is on the tenant.
Sounds like aircon was being used in manner consistent with normal use
Landlord surely.
What rent you charge?
FFS
STOP GIVING LANDLORDS A BAD NAME
TAKE SOME OWNERSHIP YES THIS IS 100% ON THE LANDLORD.
It's normal use/wear and tear, yes it's only 16 degrees but the system should be designed to cope with this, if it's not then it's on the owner of the property to rectify.If you don't want to put money back into your investment or manage it buy shares.
/rant.According to Australia's Department of Industry, Science, Energy, and Resources, the ideal air conditioner temperature for the cooling mode for summer is 24 to 24C while the National Australian Building Rating System suggests a target of 25C.
Ok? Just struggling to see your point, just because a body says it's ideal doesn't exempt an air conditioner from failing under its designed operating conditions. Does this mean that if i set my air con to a reasonable 20 degrees and it fails it exmempts the land lord? No
I'd tell the tenant that they're being unreasonable in running it at 16 degrees. Else if it still happens might have to get a new air con installed/plumbed better.
We have plenty of air cons we have to set on "16-18C" just to get the room down to 24-27C …
Just because it's set on "16C", doesn't mean the room will be at 16C, especially if it's a typically undersized aircon for the room ;)
@Shazoz You are obviously looking for an excuse to alleviate burden from yourself and place it squarely on the tennat. The operating manual will take precedence as this is what the unit lists as normal operations. A governing body's recommendations is not going help our cause one iota if you had to go to court.
If I was the tennant I would tell you to go play on the train tracks.
Tennat did not damage it. I think you fail to see that.
Tennat did not damage it
Yes they did
What kind of a person runs the aircon at 16 degrees? That is just craziness. They must have had to wear jumpers around the house.
It was 42deg in Perth today
Maybe lack insulation means the aircon struggles to lower or maintain the temp
I guarantee the slum the AC is in didn't get anywhere near 16 in Perth today. It would have made no difference if they set it to 25 instead of 16, it'd be running non stop either way.
Landlord may have cheaped out and gotten an AC that didn't have the power to properly cool the room, thus needing lower temp (and higher fan) to actually cool the room down.
16-18c all the time here. hate the heat.
It doesn't mean the room reached 16c
Pass that information onto the tenants and let them know that this is a one time deal, I guess.
What kind of sh!t aircon con can’t run below 24c during hot and humid days (ie when you are most likely to use aircon)?
The kind that is installed in slum rentals it seems.
Lots of people run their aircon for most of the day and night, particularly during hot days over summer
It sounds like the unit allows the temp to be set at 16 deg
Sounds like a landlord issue
On a hot day if the house is poorly insulated it'll run exactly the same whether it's set to 16 or 22, because it'll never get the house below 23 anyway. When the sun sets then it'll keep going at 16 when it may have shut off if set to 22. But the tenants are paying for the electricity, they should be able to run it at 16 if they really want. How old is the AC system that it won't automatically de-ice and drain itself properly? You may have been due or overdue for a replacement anyway.
Did anyone explicitly tell the tenants that prior to their use?
No.So why would they need to pay for using what they (wrongly) assumed was the best and most effective cooling method available?
Even after this ordeal, you still can’t really tell someone what temperature to run their ac at.
If you don’t want more ice/staining, time to invest in a better AC.Total BS to not running AC below 24C, though 16c is somewhat extreme even for one's own health.
Recent Sydney temps haven't been too crazy high…
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/australia/sydney/histori…
Sounds like a poor, cheap and faulty installation job that the repairer doesn't want to take ownership for.
Who organised the tradie, the real estate agent or you the landlord?
Is the aircon tech talking about the insulation around the pipes? How does this lead to drain blockage? Assume the invoice was considerable if your thinking of trying to offload it back to the tenant.
ShazOz
Anyone else have a double take at that name?
maybe its his wife :)
Maybe they now identify as Shaz
That would be a surprising twist.
maybe it's a homage
You can get special remote controls for AC which you can set secret limits (but they display something else).
That explains so much.
Got a link? Could make some good pranks.
A lot of ACs in other countries I've visited that tend to be non English speaking, have the temp displayed on the unit as well as the remote.
So you can't hide the temp by holding your hand over the IR blaster and changing it while the wife isn't looking.
What does your rental agreement state?
What do you consider long hours vs reasonable hours anyway? Can you prove running the aircon at 16 degrees and running it for long hours caused the problem?
I am confused as there is no mention of water damage to the wall that is what would be expected to be the cause of the "stain".
Hey OP
how old was the aircon unit?
what city is the tenant living in?
Aircon is ~ 4 years old. Location is Sydney….
In this case, is it fair to pass drain unblocking charges to the tenant and ask them to do cleaning of wall stains?
If an aircon can be set to 16c, it's not unreasonable to think a tenant would set it to that. If the AC was known to cause issues at the 16c setting the landlord should've replaced it to prevent that happening.
But really, how much of their life do you expect to control? Are they not allowed to cook certain foods because you don't want the place to be stunk up? Are they banned from drinking red wine in case they spill it on the carpet? Are they not allowed to have toddlers because they might draw on the walls? Are they banned from having friends over in case they walk in with their shoes on and muddy the floors? All these things can happen if you own a rental; tenant risk is an inherent part of property investing.
Landlords in the country seem to think it's an endless money maker and don't need to put in effort to keep it running. All the while thinking they're being altruistic in enabling people to rent out their place.
Indeed, some people don't seem to understand it actually requires effort, and people can be totally inconsiderate slobs. The good landlords are the ones who realise it's a symbiotic relationship; what benefits the tenant will benefit the landlord. Often the relationship is parasitic though.
Make and year of the Air Con?
It's certainly nowhere near new if it can no longer de-ice properly.
Also why is it improperly installed to allow condensation to penetrate the wall?
When was the last time you had the aircon cleaned?
If it's regularly cleaned it shouldn't be icing up. I'd get the evaporator coils cleaned before you start blaming the tenant. Also seems odd that ice alone clogged the drain.
Landlords undertaking voluntary/preventative maintenance? That'll be the day lol
I think this the reason as mine started sputtering water droplets recently till I cleaned it.
I also did this myself as a tenant.
That's general maintenance not repairs imo and saves your power bill too
Is the aircon not powerful enough for the area it's trying to cool?
Christ, landlords are the worst… I’m going to put this right up there with withholding bonds because you found 2 dead flies in a window track.
And it’s no business of yours what they run their AC at, so long as it is operating within manufacturer’s specifications.
If it wasn’t de-icing, it’s because there is a problem with the unit. That’s on you. You’re the landlord, you should pay.
Can’t wait for your next post where you complain a tenant used the stove and turned it up to 9 when state government recommend that the average user only cooks on 6…
Landlord reporting in. I'd pay the bill. Why should my tenants pay for it? It's my aircon not theirs.
Same. But also would replace the aircon with a decent brand, and one which wouldn’t ice up due to reasonable use. Heck, I would have replaced a POS brand before renting it out.
Cost to resheet a wall and replace rotten framing? Probably 10k. Maybe more. Cost of an 8kw Mitsubishi heavy or Panasonic 8/9kw (i.e. premium and highest capacity) unit installed is about 7k. Its a no brainer, and I really doubt the OP’s rented place is actually physically large enough to need 8kw+.
Invest in a better A/C, save you both a headache
Back when I was a tenant, and the aircon belonged to the landlord and not me, in summer I would run that baby into the ground, max fan at 17 degrees day and night, wasn’t my aircon to worry about, and I was paying $600 a week for the privilege to live there. Aircon broke once and the landlord fixed it no issues, as he should because there ain’t no rule book on how to use a damn aircon. Now I own my house and I do the same damn thing I did as a tenant as I do as an owner. If aircon breaks I will fix it. Just trying to soak up all that free midday solar to avoid my energy company giving me a measly 5 cents in buy back the pricks.
What a surprise this is the same OP that agreed to a labour charge from a mechanic then complained the mechanic did the job quicker than he thought and mechanic should give him a discount. Would hate to live inside the OP's head it sounds stressful
Get in the Bin OP… seriously give the rest of us a chance at a better society as a whole ffs.
It's kinda stupid to run aircon at 16 degrees. It's less power at 20 degrees and it should feel cold enough. Hopefully they don't use sweater too or thick blanket.
Don't ask tenants to clean the wall stains.
They'll probably use acid or some other crap that will burn a hole in the wall and then try to fix that problem by patching it with play-doh and covering the whole mess with dodgy wallpaper. Don't think I'm joking. They'll think they are doing the right thing.Too many tenants don't care to look after the property they are in, then complain when they are asked to move on to another property, and then complain about the state of the new one that another tenant failed to care for and the landlord stopped trying to replace after the same thing was damaged & replaced 3 times after 3 tenants in a row.
That said, the air-con should cope with 16 degrees and shouldn't leak, and if it does the tenant should alert the owner as soon as it is noticed.
But most don't, because they don't care about the landlords property.But the landlord should fix the aircon if it breaks.
A couple of observations.
Is the property a west facing apartment that gets cooked every afternoon in the warmer months? If so, then of course tenants need to run their aircon excessively. Those properties are a blight on communities.
The other one is I can't imagine what the tenant's electricity bill will come to.
Pay up and possibly treat people a bit better?
You cant dictate what temperature others want to use in appliances THEY pay rent for.Why are you even asking?
Sounds like the property is potentially unsuitable for the tenant as there's some sort of mould/water damage issue after normal appliance use. Do you think the landlord should compensate the tenant?
I dont have aircon at home but in the car it set it to "LO" which is below 16. If I drive 10 hours up the coast I would expect no issues with it.
If the aircon plays up, it's a warranty issue for the manufacturer, or a repair bill for the owner.
If the AC has a setting for 16°c, then it should.be able to operate at that temp, that's why it's an option. There is an issue with the AC if it can't do that.
Which residential AC unit has 16c setting? Lowest ive seen is only 18c.
Tenant should have reported the leak to the realestate.
oh dear, I never usually comment on these threads, but if OP were my landlord, I will quickly find another place…geez, this is a form of landlord entitlement, right?
No. Blame the numb nuts who let the condensation go somewhere it can stain the walls……..
And perhaps ask said numb nuts why someone might want to cop the energy bill for this. Does the property have shading to northern/western walls in summer? Is it insulated properly? Are there draughts from anywhere - doors, windows?
Perhaps numb nuts is renting a pretty cr@p house……My Daikin A/C can only set to lowest 18c…..
Looks to me the existing A/C isn't meeting the demand and cuasing some issues (eg, set to 16c because they can only get 25c in another room/area)
Rather putting the blame on the users, I would recommend to upgrade the A/C to suit the needs, eg, more units in other room if there's only one outlet, or upgrade the power so that there's no need to set the temp so low, etc. Get an A/C expert to provide the new setup.
Landlord should fix the issue and upgrade the A/C.
Absorb the cost of replacement. If possible, work on dealing with sealing the area’s windows and doors to reduce leaks.
Get REA for this tenant and future tenants to advise recommended energy saving operations of the air con. It’s a benefit for both you and the tenants (where the air con is being run optimally and the tenant pays less electricity). This might be including the obvious, the aircon is currently only going to cool this room and it will not reach these other rooms by design.
Will never be able get tenants to pay for a replacement unless they intentionally or unintentionally throw something at it to the point it stopped working.
My god, think of the energy bill
There is a lot of interesting information here about appropriate and inappropriate settings for air conditioners in various climates, but if we are talking about staining the walls, I don't think that the question of who set the temperature would be taken into account. If the tenant had brought in the air conditioner himself, then maybe. But if the air conditioner was brought in by the landlord for the tenant's use, then I don't think you can hold the tenant responsible for damage caused by him using it, regardless of the temperature setting. The aircon — not the tenant — stained the walls. The aircon is just part of the fixtures and fittings supplied and owned by the landlord. The fact that the tenant set it to a lower temperature than you would have yourself doesn't matter… it's just something which might encourage you, when you are preparing the unit for the next tenant, to simply take out the aircon and let the next tenant arrange his own cooling. Your agent, however, will then tell you that you will have to lower your rent expectations. So it's a juggling act.
Are there readily available specific instructions for the Tennant not to run the aircon at that specific available setting, because it would ice up?
Sounds like an AC installation issue, pay up or get onto the installer
Yet another shonky tight arse landlord…you pay!
Landlord buys investment property with poor insulation
Tenant runs air con at low temperature to be comofortable
issues arise
Landlord: surprised pikachu faceThis is on you mate. I love how landlords just want returns and expect their tenants to live like sub human slaves to fund their lifestyle. Cough up
Also
This caused drain leakage due to icing which resulted in staining of walls.
This is a defect with the air con. We have one that we run at 16 degrees in summer and never had this issue. When was the last time you serviced the air con? you know theyneed to be serviced, right? yeah.
Inbred tenant behaviour
Tiktok is that way mate.
OP has requested comments to be closed.
Now, I'm no big city lawyer, but if they were using the AC normally (as in, in a way that wouldn't void warranty), then it's wear and tear, no?