Just wondering if there is go to forums for investing, trading, etc. I know property chat is there for property related.
Australian Forums That Discuss Investing and Trading
yjun355 on 04/03/2024 - 10:42
Last edited 04/03/2024 - 13:04 by 1 other user
Last edited 04/03/2024 - 13:04 by 1 other user
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and trade things you buy but you dont need with others/
there. cover all points: discuss, invest, and tradingHigh yield cars
High yield
carsinvestment vehicles.
beware of forum/chat platform that purposely trick members to buy penny shares so the owner can dump them
HotCopper is a prime example
Yep, some of these chat sites are filled with little more than pump and dump merchants.
You know why there isn't many good ones right? Because you basically need an license (AFSL) even then they keep telling you it isn't personal financial advice. Listen to some podcasts on Australian investing. They either tell you to ETF or buy property (this one is the best for them because they don't need to have a licence).
2 of the top finance podcasts in Australia.
1 is pushing you to do their investor course for $499 or use their referral into mortgage brokers or financial planning
1 is pushing their books on how to get your finances in order then buy propertyTop tip. Best investing and returns are mostly not in Australia. Few exceptional micro caps you will never get into unless you get insider tips.
Removing property, and any got lucky/right time and place etc etc. What's % return per year is considered as "good" for an average Joe?
Probably between 8-12% on average per year.
average Joe
2023 Vanguard index chart poster
So if you look at the poster average is 10% for US shares, 9.2% for Australian shares. Joe should fall between that.
Now you have to consider how much effort you need to go to (and risk) to get say 12%. Very few fund managers or shares can consistently beat the index over time.
Some US financial planners did the analysis. Like 20% of stocks in the Index drive 80% of returns over time so if you miss those stocks you under perform.
What about managed funds? It's there simpler charge that compares all managed funds?
@yjun355: Managed fund there is 3 issues.
- They all use methods to dress up their performance. Look at their 5 year returns vs S&P500. They either won't beat it or beat it by very little is it worth it?
- Managed funds depend on collecting your money then investing it. They need to hold cash just in case someone wants their money back. That cash is earning like 5% vs the market long term average of say 8%. This is the cash drag.
- Fees. S&P500 tracker is 0.1% fees. Fund manager are more like 0.5% plus performance fee (like 20% of outperformance vs their chosen benchmark)
@netjock: Thanks. Are they any that simply return similar to Super funds. So say if Australian Super balanced growth or high, etc
@yjun355: Superfunds are basically a managed fund except with scale the fees are lower.
If you look at the table I put a link to earlier from Vanguard and have a look at long term returns between US shares, Australian and International Shares and compare that to your super fund you'll find super funds are pretty much in line with International Shares ETF. Why bother with all the research and trading to get an extra 2% per year?
That said I have ETFs like Global Share Index, S&P500 Index, Global 100 Index, Technology Index ETF. I also have some listed investment companies because they have good returns and share price is 40% off asset values. I have some fun just buying them and see share price recoveries. One of them I bought last year and it has gone up 100%. It consists of something like 20% asset returns within the company but also 40% discount share price to now a 20% premium. But there is one that's been flat for years and at 20% discount. It is because half the company is held by one family (basically small shareholders are in it for the ride with the 1%)
Some of those forums are kind of bizarre to read. Thousands of comments about buying houses to get rich, but zero comments on what the housing bubble is actually doing to real people. It's like the housing investment sickness Australia has suffered from for decades now distilled into a pure form.
Warren Buffett said good advice is expensive, don't expect it from cheap people. People giving free advice is cheap people in my book.
People are always talking their own book. Easy to pretend to be knowledgeable online and actually just pushing property prices higher to make your PPOR or IP higher / maintain value.
Real good advice is actually the ones that can help you make another $100k per annum real cash flow (okay something like $55k after tax if you are on top marginal rate) with little effort.
but zero comments on what the housing bubble is actually doing to real people
….yeah? because they're in it to make money, not friends.
It's one of the reasons investing in shares is so bizarre to me as well. Literally no value is being provided to society with all this share trading, it's just about making money from others. No value.
You've provided some capital to an operating business and will share in its future profits?
Pretty straightforward. You might as well argue providing loans creates no value as well if you have a problem with that.
Buying Aussie shares is literally investing in Australia. Real businesses and science and technology and art and stuff. Real jobs.
Right. Traders on the ASX are really all about the arts.
Mmmm! I ALWAYS get my financial advice from anonymous strangers.
hotcopper has some aus stock discussions
just need to learn the lingo - tree shake, market has no idea, oversold, overreaction, market needs to wake up, manipulated, shorters. AKA bought a stock that has gone down and need to blame someone else.
Hot copper is 85% crap and 15% semi decent analysis. However its definitely a forum that discusses trading…
tree shake, market has no idea, oversold, overreaction, market needs to wake up, manipulated, shorters
They should buy more if this is the case. Golden opportunity. Most likely they've ran out of money by dollar cost averaging each time it dropped. At least it reduces their loss in percentage terms.
OP asked for investing not gambling advice.
Do you want trading or investment?
If you want investment, read the 'financial independence' (FIRE) blogs, forums and the bogleheads forums. They all distill down to much the same advice (buy diversified ETFs, hold until you retire, use super to the max). But they will give you a lot of core information backed by analysis and good discussion. The US forums are also worthwhile although obviously their tax structure is quite different
If you want to trade, then jump into the cesspools of Hot Copper or ASXbets or similar and try gold prospecting. Every month you will find a small nugget that is useful and a huge pile of cr*p
use super to the max
Up to $1.9m reasonable benefit limit where pensions in retirement are tax free
Then there is other avenues available too.
Thanks a lot. That is really helpful
"buy diversified ETFs, hold until you retire"
YES BUT, BUT, BUT, …
they have management fees, which if high, could seriously degrade your returns.
Make sure you select LOW FEE ETF's such as A200 which follows the ASX 200 index and has an excellent management fee of 0.04%.
Steer clear of high fee ETF's such as GEAR with a 0.8% fee.
Here's a list of ASX ETF's …
What do you want to discuss?
Just DCA into VDHG or DHHF.
Didn't get that reference.
Basic at this stage like ETFs and managed funds
VDHG and DHHF are the names of two ETFs.
These are ETFs that are 'single all in one' ETFs, because they contain a mix of australian and international shares (and bonds in the case of VDHG). Very simple investment, you just buy DHHF and thats all you need to own. Excellent product for the simplest investment option.
The other option is a 'three fund portfolio' (or 4 or 5, depending) eg https://passiveinvestingaustralia.com/the-australian-version…. This essentially gives you the same holdings as DHHF or VDHG, but at a slightly lower cost (annual management expense ratio or MER) and more flexibility (you can change the proportion of AU shares vs US shares etc). It does have downsides, you need to keep rebalancing to maintain your intended ratios (between AUD and US and International etc) and its 3 (or 4 or 5) funds you have to buy instead of one.
DCA means 'dollar cost averaging' - you buy a regular parcel of shares at a set time (eg each month or 3 months) regardless of how the market is doing. This way you end up averaging out your buys so that sometimes you buy low and sometimes high but overall you get a medium average. Vs buying all at once, you might be buying when the market is high and it then goes down.
My go-to site for both investing and trading is …
https://www.marketindex.com.au/
Excellent for keeping track of the markets and for sound investing advice.
You can have daily market updates delivered to your inbox.
Thanks. Site looks good. Would you know equivalent which gives me comparison of all managed funds?
"Would you know equivalent which gives me comparison of all managed funds?"
YEP.
THE SAME SITE!They have an ETF link at the bottom of the page.
Not sure about off market managed funds though if that's what you're after.
Also, if you're after recommendations on stocks, there's a BROKER CONSENSUS link at the bottom of the page which indicates which stocks brokers recommend from STRONG SELL to STRONG BUY.
I hadn't heard of that, it looks really useful. Thanks!
not a forum as such but intelligent investor is an australian subscription-based service. their podcasts are free to listen to on spotify etc.
Thanks. Would you have the link. On podbean their last episode was in 2019
Thanks
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