Choosing Speakers and Subwoofer for 7.2 Home Theatre Setup

zszs on 27/03/2024 - 22:21

Hi all :) I'm looking to upgrade my home theatre and would appreciate some advice, please.

My current 5.1 speakers:
* Centre: Yamaha NS-C444
* Front: Yamaha NS-50F
* Rear: Edifier P17
* Subwoofer: Yamaha YST-RSW300

I was using a Yamaha HTW-2071 receiver, but I was fortunate to snap up a Denon AVR-X1800H receiver from this deal and will be upgrading to 7.2ch, which means buying:
* a pair of surround back speakers
* another pair to replace my current rear speakers (the Edifier P17 has a rated power of 5-20W and is hardly audible)
* an extra subwoofer (or buying two and selling my current one).

I don't know much about audio systems but have been doing some research. Some potential options:
* New speakers - maybe Polk Signature Elite ES10 ($399 new)?
* Older secondhand speakers for $200-$400 (e.g. Yamaha NS-7900, Jamo E875, Monitor Audio Silver RX-FX?)
* Yamaha NS-SW300 subwoofer ($600-700 new) - do I need to get two of the same, rather than mix n match?

Budget is <$1k for 2 pairs of rear speakers. Not sure how much I should spend on subs :s

Honestly I know very little about audio systems but this is my thinking so far. Any thoughts/advice on what I should be looking for appreciated!

Electrical & Electronics Speakers Subwoofer

Comments

  • saitaris on 27/03/2024 - 22:32
    +3

    That subwoofer will be trash.

    There are lots of great subwoofer brands you will see recommended online - most are not sold here. A solid choice that is sold in this market is SVS. Buy an SVS PB-1000 Pro, and add a 2nd one later when you can afford. The sub is important, don't waste $700 on rubbish. If budget is tight, look out for a used one, or perhaps a used version of the non-Pro model (older model) which will be cheaper again. You say you aren't sure how much to spend on the sub - the answer is as much as you can afford. It is a very important part of your system.

    You will be better off spending more on the sub now and holding off on the 2nd set of rear speakers.

    • sumyungguy on 27/03/2024 - 22:43
      -3

      I've listened to that sub in a demo lounge at Harvey Norman. I don't think it's trash - have you auditioned it?

      • saitaris on 27/03/2024 - 22:53

        I don't do my shopping for home theatre equipment at Harvey Norman (or any shopping at HN). None of my preferred dealers stock that sub, and even if they did the specs give me no reason to audition it over many superior options.

        If OP is willing to fork out 700 bucks, a second hand SVS sub will do far better for possibly even less money than that.

      • Mechz on 27/03/2024 - 23:38
        +1

        My friend has that sub in his HT room. It's pretty crap for the money.

        +1 for the SVS

    • zszs on 27/03/2024 - 23:42

      Thanks for the advice! I thought the subs I have now are pretty all right but now I'm convinced to try something higher end. I'll have to look for a used non-pro version of the SVS; can I use it together with my current sub?

      • saitaris on 28/03/2024 - 00:02
        +1

        You could try it together with your current sub, although in all likelihood you will get a better result on it's own unless you calibrate with something like REW.

        The SB-1000/Pro series comes up for sale used probably a bit more often than the PB. The difference is sealed vs ported. The ported subs dig deeper and have more oomph, so are the preferred choice for HT but the sealed subs still pack a reasonable punch for the money. I've seen SB-1000 Pros selling used for around $550 in the past. Go PB if you can source one though.

        If you go to a proper Hifi/HT dealer, most will sell SVS and have it available to test. Even though you may want to buy used you can at least hear in person. Be aware many dealers will try and steer you towards higher margin (for them) brands, which are not necessarily better for your needs or at all.

        • zszs on 28/03/2024 - 00:21

          Really appreciate your detailed advice. Thank you :)

        • zszs on 09/04/2024 - 15:30

          Quick update - I ended up getting dual PB-1000s and am glad I followed your advice as they sound fantastic :) Thanks again!

    • Sal in SA on 28/03/2024 - 07:24
      • for SVS as well - personally run REL's but SVS would be my 2nd choice.
  • sumyungguy on 27/03/2024 - 22:41

    Do you listen to music as well as watch TV/movies? Organise a set of music and home theatre test tracks and narrow down the things you dislike about your current setup. Ideally test your reference tracks on someone else's setup. Best value for money upgrade would be to find a second pre-owned YST-RSW300 and upgrade your NS-50F mains (consider NS-555 or NS-777). Effects speakers don't work too hard so you can shop around to find four timbre-matched speakers.

    • zszs on 27/03/2024 - 23:45

      No, pretty much just movies. If I upgrade the NS-50F mains, perhaps I can use the NS-50F as the rears instead? ;) And thanks for the recommendations, I'll have a look!

      • sumyungguy on 27/03/2024 - 23:50

        If I had the space I'd do it. Saves buying more stuff. Also I'm happy for now running mismatched (Yamaha) subs. Audio is wholly subjective, the only opinion that matters is yours.

  • Sal in SA on 28/03/2024 - 07:25

    For HT - my goto would always be Krix for Speakers.

    • zszs on 29/03/2024 - 16:42

      Thanks, I'll check out some Krix ones :)

  • spackbace on 28/03/2024 - 13:18

    Unsure how they really compare, but my whole speaker system is the Sony speakers imported from the US:

    https://www.amazon.com.au/Sony-3-Driver-Bookshelf-Speaker-Is… - rears

    https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SACS9-10-Inch-Active-Subwoofer/d… - centre

    https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SACS9-10-Inch-Active-Subwoofer/d…

    Can't find a seller currently for the tower speakers up front, but yeah

    No doubt it's crap compared to something else but eh, no issues to report here

    • zszs on 29/03/2024 - 16:43

      Nice! It does seem easier to just get a whole home theatre package…

  • revheadgl on 28/03/2024 - 13:37

    Some suggestions for buying on a budget.

    SVS-SB1000 Classic. Currently selling for $799. I just bought one recently for a friend, for $760 delivered, just by asking for a deal via phone.call from CHT. Personally use a Rel, but this was and would be my 2nd choice, as commented by Sal in SA above.

    For your surrounds/rears have a look a 2 x pairs of;

    Monitor Audio Monitor 50. $179 a pair on clearance sale.I have these and I think they sound great, especially for the money. https://www.spacehifi.com.au/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/mon…

    Q Acoustics 3010i. $279 a pair on sale. https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/q-acoustics-q3010i-b…

    Wharfedale Crystal 4.1 $228 a pair on clearance sale. https://www.wharfedale.com.au/products/crystal-4-1-bookshelf…

    Focal Sib Evo $250 a pair. I believe they are on clearance sale. https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/focal-sib-evo-2-0-sa…

    • zszs on 29/03/2024 - 16:49

      Wow thanks for those recommendations. I'm surprised how small some HT speakers are; I'm guessing it doesn't really matter though.
      Still waiting for some used SVS subs to come up for sale.. Any particular model of the RELs you'd recommend?

      • revheadgl on 29/03/2024 - 20:20

        At current pricing I really cannot recommend any REL over the SVS SB1000. The REL I have is an HT1003 1st gen that I bought on sale last year for $690.

        The new one is $1500, and if I was buying today, it would be the SVS. They are so similar in performance that I personally could not justify spending twice as much.

        And good luck finding a used SVS at a decent price, lol. Due to their price/performance ratio,they hold their value on the used market.

        For movies, my next comment will no doubt attract some negative criticism. But, as far as speakers go, considering Dolby themselves recommend a crossover point of 80hz, I see no point in having speakers that go much lower than that.

        Smaller speakers cost less, take up less space and do the job, Why have a speaker that can get to 35hz when you cross it over at 80hz.

        However if you are a music purist and want to listen in stereo with no subwoofer, completely disregard my previous two paragraphs, lol.

        .

        • zszs on 29/03/2024 - 22:41

          That makes sense. Yeah, the only used ones I could find were close to RRP. I've decided to bite the bullet and buy a new PB-1000.. or maybe even two, as the room is fairly large and has a high ceiling.
          Still undecided on the speakers though; tbh I want to spend a bit now and future-proof, but there are so many to choose from it's mind-boggling!! Starting to think this is the start of falling down a rabbit hole……

          • sumyungguy on 29/03/2024 - 22:49
            +1

            @zszs: You can find calculators online for subwoofer room sizing, to decide on 10-inch vs 12-inch. I chose to stick with 10-inch because I need to be neighbour friendly.

          • revheadgl on 30/03/2024 - 09:00
            +2

            @zszs: Yes, can definitely be an expensive rabbit hole.

            I worked in the audio industry for a bit many years ago but managed to avoid going too crazy with my system back then. I had what you could say was mid tier.

            Currently running what I would call lower budget and I am very happy with it.

            My best advice is find something you like the sound of within your budget, and be happy with that. The law of diminishing gains definitely applies to audio. Just because it costs twice as much does not mean its twice as good. In many cases it may not actually be any better to your ears.

  • Heinz on 08/04/2024 - 10:12
    +1

    Hey OP, welcome to the endless rabbit hole of theatre upgrades :)

    Few things to consider, hope these help.

    1. Rear surrounds. Two things - the first, placement of these can be tricky, have you checked out the Dolby placement specs to see if you can actually properly place these? Secondly, I had rear surrounds that I later removed and installed in-ceiling atmos speakers instead. Way bigger difference - I didn't think the rear surrounds added nearly as much as the in-ceiling atmos speakers did. Your AVR can be set up to accommodate 2 atmos speakers in a 5.1.2 config - worth considering. In/on-ceiling speakers are also pretty cheap in comparison to bookshelf speakers.
    2. Subwoofer. These honestly make or break the movie audio experience, I would recommend you look at spending a decent amount on a capable subwoofer. They add so much to the movie experience. As stated by "saitaris" - we are limited in good sub brands here in Australia, but have a look at SVS, Krix, REL. I would usually recommend a ported subwoofer for movies, and especially if your room is not closed off. If music is your main priority, or your room is enclosed, look at sealed subwoofers. Do some research into this, the SVS website has a good article on sealed vs ported. If you can swing it, look at getting something like a PB2000, and then add a second one when you've saved for it. Dual subwoofers is another story, and you will need some additional equipment to properly run 2 subs with your current AVR, so don't worry about duals for now. Get the best, biggest one you can afford now. (Whilst your current AVR has 2 sub outputs, it cannot calibrate them independently, which is essential for duals. You need a higher tier AVR for this, or some external equipment.)
    3. You do not need good surround speakers, the most important is your centre speaker, subs, and L/R. So don't spend a heap on them, even look second hand for some Yamahas in the same range.
    4. If you really want to upgrade your audio experience, as per above, spend the money on a nice sub and even look at getting a new centre speaker (unless you are happy with your current one). Like 85+% of audio comes from the centre, so getting a capable one will elevate your movie experience a lot too.

    Hope that helps, happy to try answer any questions.

    • zszs on 09/04/2024 - 15:27
      +1

      Thanks so much for your detailed reply! In the days after posting this, I ended up spending way more than initially planned…..
      Ended up with a KEF R2c centre + Q350s, and moved the old Yamaha NS-50Fs to the back as rear surrounds.
      As for the subs… uh oh.. I've already ended up getting dual SVS PB-1000s! Currently have them near the front of the room on each wall facing each other, and they sound great to my untrained ears, but are you able to elaborate on getting a higher-tier AVR/calibrating them independently? Would it make a noticeable difference?
      I do feel that a better AVR might be the next upgrade anyway, as I've been hesitant to crank up the volume in case the AVR-X1800H is underpowering my speakers. Kinda hesitant though as I only got it a few weeks ago :(((
      Overall very very happy with the upgrade, movies sound fantastic and love how the subs shake the walls :) Also followed some instructions on YouTube on using Audyssey, but REW seems way over my head and I haven't even attempted it yet.
      Once I recover from the splurge, will have a think about in-ceiling/Atmos as well :) further down the rabbit hole I go…

      • Heinz on 11/04/2024 - 12:23
        +2

        Oh awesome, the R2C is a terrific speaker, congrats, and welcome to the KEF family. You basically have a centre that you will keep for life now, nice one. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get it/how much was it? I know that range is being run out, so I think my next upgrade will be the R6 Meta - I have the Q650c currently (which I love, but down the rabbit hole we go).

        Re your AVR and power - how loud do you usually listen? Power in speaker world is a funny thing- you only need 1 watt of power to get your centre to play above 85dB at a 1m distance, but to go louder and stay clean the power requirements goes exponentially higher. What I'm saying is- if you don't listen very loud, you likely don't need more power. Also, getting a higher tier AVR won't really help your power - you will need to invest into separate power amps with lots of juice if you want proper power. I know KEFs like a bit of juice, but if you don't listen very loud you'll be fine. For reference, I have a Denon X3800H and it powers a 5 setup KEF, and I usually listen around -12 to -20 and it does fine.

        Congrats on the subs too - I have dual PB1000 Pros (moving to something else soon but they are awesome). Do you have the Pro model with the app?

        Yeap, happy to elaborate on dual subs. Basically, speakers 'excite' and move sound waves in your space. When this happens, they interact with your room, and they can actually 'cancel' each out other at certain frequencies, creating this thing called a 'null'. Imagine a sound wave on a chart - moving from left to right as you go up in frequency (low to high pitch sounds). The nulls basically are massive dips in the chart - meaning you can't hear those frequencies well or at all. When you have a single sub, and you take sound measurements at the spot you listen to on your couch, you will most certainly have a lot of nulls (which you wont know about until you use something like REW). There is no way to EQ these nulls - you cant boost your signal at certain frequencies to counteract the nulls. The only way to get rid of them is to either counter the wave with acoustic treatments, or by having another sub. The additional sub will help to 'fill in' those nulls if it is calibrated properly. If the dual subs arent calibrated properly, it means that they are not working together to counteract the nulls, and they might also be out of time with each other and your main speakers, which could cause more problems.
        A higher tier AVR will calibrate your subs independent from each other, and then with your main speakers, so it all works together. THe X1800H can only calibrate one sub - so it's currently treating your dual subs as 'one' - meaning, you need to either a) manually calibrate your 2 subs so they are working together first, then re-run Audyssey so it handles the pair as 'one', or b) get something that can do this for you automatically.
        You have 3 options - calibrate them manually using the SVS apps and REW; get a miniDSP and calibrate it using REW; or get a higher tier AVR with something like Aydyssey XT32 (the x3800h and up range) or Dirac Live Bass Management. OR, leave as is if you are happy with them :) I can give you some links to help research into this further if you'd like? Honestly, REW seems daunting but it's actually very easy and it's an incredible investment for your system. REW is free, you will just need to buy something like the UMIK-1 mic to take sound measurements. It will also help you determine the best spot for your subwoofers - sometimes it's not where you think. You can't find the ideal spots without something like REW. People say to do the 'sub crawl' but it's actually flawed in many ways.

        Also, do you watch movies via streaming or via disc? I ask because the uncompressed audio from physical media is night/day above streaming, especially the bass. If you have the capability to, I'd recommend picking up a few titles in 4k UHD (or Bluray) because it will make you appreciate your system a lot, especially the subs :)

        • zszs on 11/04/2024 - 14:14
          +1

          Audio Junction and Digital Cinema had the discontinued R2c on their websites so I sent offers of $1.8k, and AJ came back within the hour with approval. Probably could've gone a bit lower but very happy with the upgrade… As for the R6 Meta, wow :o the reviews are impressive! Buy once cry once, hahah. Hope you enjoy it :)
          I usually listen at about -15 or -10; any louder and it seems to approach hearing damage territory. According to my SPL meter it seems to linger at around 85dB at this volume, which is pretty loud I guess. Interesting to learn a higher-tier AVR won't solve power problems, but since I won't be cranking it up much more than this, hopefully it should be ok!
          I got the PB-1000 Classics; watching Dune and A Quiet Place 2 at -10 was incredible!! Night and day difference compared to the old sub. Only regret is not getting these sooner, and buying two at the same time knocked $100 off the price which was great.
          I really appreciate the detailed writeup on dual subs - that definitely helped me understand how they work. Looks like I have a lot of homework ahead in learning to calibrate and use REW (and doing further damage to the wallet with the extra tools). I only have an ACM1HB mic that came with the AVR so will probably invest in the UMIK-1 you mentioned - it'd be a shame to spend so much on speakers/subs and not have them going at their full potential.
          Usually blu rays/remux + Shield TV Pro, or just Netflix when I can't be bothered :) Agree, blu rays do seem to look and sound waaaay better! I hear there's another rabbit hole when it comes to Dolby Vision/Atmos, OLED vs miniLED etc. which I'm scared to get into lol.
          Thanks again for all your advice, it's been invaluable. I'm really glad I asked here :)

          • Heinz on 11/04/2024 - 16:59

            @zszs: Good price on the R2C - enjoy! Really good speakers for dialogue clarity :)
            Yeah, I'd encourage you to look into power requirements at a high-level. I mean, there will be a potentially notable power difference to the very top end AVRs - but for that price you might as well just get a nicer separate amp and run the AVR suited to your speaker channel setup.
            85db is very loud, yes. I don't think I ever go above -10, and if I do it's because the audio mix is crap haha.
            Good movies to test bass for sure - can't wait to get Dune 2 when it comes out.
            Oh awesome, so you are already passing uncompressed audio - great to hear.
            I know, same with me on the subs - I never thought bass could make such a difference, and now I've gone down the rabbit hole to get bigger ones haha.
            Yes, TVs and projectors another rabbit hole…I prefer OLEDs myself, but when mine dies and I need a new one I'm sure other tech will look just as good (and hopefully cheaper).
            No worries - the Umik-1 is around $195, but very worthwhile investment I think. I know it's improved my bass dramatically (I run a miniDSP, have a look into those if you're interested too).
            Enjoy :)

          • sumyungguy on 11/04/2024 - 17:23

            @zszs: Good job on all your upgrades (so far) but you didn't really go for bargains. Anyway, the comment I wanted to add was about dual subs. I use them to compensate for my tricky room acoustics. You should be able to modify the orientation and placement of the subs to get a decent gut punch in your listening position. But move around your room and there are bound to be bass traps in the corners which really don't matter unless you want to add acoustic treatments.

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