I have contacted 4 solar panel installers recently. I live in 2-story townhouse.
3/4 advised that I don't have enough roof space for even a standard 3kw system. The 4th installer advised that I could have a 3.96kw system (JINKO) with micro inverters.
He has quoted a total of $5500 including the solar rebate.
Is this a good price?
Cheers
OMG
Every solar panel installation is a custom installation and no two places have the same circumstances.
Therefore nobody here can answer your question
Just get more quotes!
Alternatively if you are not happy with paying the quoted amount of $5500 then just dont go ahead.
If you ahead then make sure you do qualify for the rebate!!!
Also take note of what the other installers 3 told you.
That will not change no matter how many quoates you get
yeah im just curious to see how much people paid for a similar system to gauge what the average price should be.
I get that prices will differ due to how many stories they have, the material of roof etc but I doubt it will be anything significant
I'm guessing it's a small largely south facing roof with lots of shade and obstacles. Hence why no one wants to quote on it due to the difficulty and potential complaints about performance later on. Also a lot of companies won't touch 2 story jobs.
As op replied similar sized system compared to the one I have then it is very competitive compared to the system I put in 15 years ago.
Systems were very expensive 15 years ago. Going by the 7kw SolarEdge system I had put in 3 years ago for $5k after all rebates it's on the expensive side, but given inflation over the past few years it may be an ok price, especially if it's using an Enphase system. I wouldn't use SolarEdge again, their string system is flawed and requires careful design to get the maximum production out of each panel. The support just fobs you off as well. I wish I'd gone with the Goodwe inverter, at least the Chinese will help you with their product.
its actually not. The main reason is because I have hot water panels taking up a lot of roof space.
Why not get rid of them?
@JIMB0: This. If your existing hot water panels are reducing your ability to install a decent sized system, rip out the hot water panels, replace them with PV (solar) panels and install a heat pump HWS.
@JIMB0: I havent moved in yet its a new house.
I still would only have enough room for a 3kw system but I wouldn't need to use microinverters
@CheapAsianGurl: I think you need to speak to an installer who's a) inverter agnostic and not shoving microinverters down your throat and b) more competent in their design capabilities.
Have you calculated your break even timeline?
Small, inefficient systems can be false economy.
the installer said around 2-3 years
Of course they did.
What do your calculations show?
according to an online calculator around 8 years lol.
the upfront cost will be $4100 as I'm qualified for the gov loan - so around 6 years for the upfront cost
@CheapAsianGurl: If you got a more powerful system are you financially better off after 8 years than wit this one?
@CheapAsianGurl: at $5500 for 3.9kw you're not going to see payback for 10 minimum.
Have a 6.6kw that was purchased for $2500, payback is around 4-5 years.
Dream on - try around 5-6 years for that size system
According to my installer I would have zero power bills ever again. Like winter doesn't exist or something.
Anyway, $5500 after rebates for a 4kw system is incredibly expensive. And if 3 out of 4 say it's a no go you already had your answer, don't trust the one with the expensive option with huge promises. That's why you get multiple quotes in the first place.
yeah I know, I will be getting more quotes as well. I just really want solar as I use a lot of electricity. I wfh and my energy bill is around $500 per quarter.
@CheapAsianGurl: Well the immediate red flag is that to pay it off in 2-3 years, $5,500 is 2 and 3/4 years of zero electricity bills. Seems unlikely. And you don't really want solar, you really want lower power bills. Don't throw money away on the former when it costs more than you'd save without clearly knowing.
Do a proper breakdown of what you use and when in terms of power and what it costs. Overlay that with a solar system offsetting the middle of the day in terms of usage in summer, then a small amount in winter. Then compare that to just sticking $5,500 in a savings account.
Also I'd look at efficiency rather than solar, WFH doesn't really impact my power bill that much, mostly heating in winter when there isn't much solar anyway.
sounds like its not worth it unless you plan to live there for a very long time.
For a under 4kw system for $5500 out of pocket thats one hell of an expensive system and total rip off. For a townhouse you will as the installers say have limited roof space unfortunately. For such a small system I don't think it is worth it for that price.
Seems like a decent deal to me, allowing for the extra hassle factor of a 2nd story installation, which massively increases the installation complexity. As you have discovered, a lot of companies just won't do it at all, so the people who do are entitled to charge a premium.
You won't get a 2-3 year payoff though. Think closer to 8, in my experience. If you're paying $500 a quarter, about $100 of that will be your daily grid supply charge, which solar won't save you anything on, then at least half of your remaining use will be while it's dark or cloudy; furthermore, in the middle of winter solar production more or less falls off a cliff. Feed-in tariffs are trivial, nowadays, and should largely be discounted from your calculations as they're only going backwards. So the fraction of your quarterly power bill that solar is going to help you with is perhaps around $200 a quarter, at best.
Working backwards from the above, a solar system might save you roughly $800 a year, which on a $5500 spend gives you a seven year pay off period.
I've had a 4.2KwH system installed for just under four years and those numbers track pretty closely with my situation, including the payoff period. The sytem covers 100% of my use during the day when the sun is out in a household with two adults working from home, two kids, and a split system air conditioner.
Also, there is no such thing as "small inefficient systems". There is a fixed cost for an inverter, and then a cost per panel. As the inverter is mostly a fixed cost, however, there are efficiencies in installing more panels if you can afford them. These efficiencies, however, are largely irrelevant once your system is covering your max daily load, after which your panels are just supplying trickle feed into the grid for a miserly payoff.
It's just not an efficient use of your money to buy extra panels nowadays simply for the feed in tariff, or for some hypothetical "future proofing", whatever that means. I mean, for the most part electrical appliances are becoming more energy efficient, not less. And regardless, you can always add extra panels if you have the roof space for them later on if you do decide to run a crypto currency mining operation out of your bathroom.
yeah i dont think a lot of companies offer microinverters which is why the quote I received is a lot more expensive than the standard 4kw system.
The upfront fee is $4100 as I am also eligible for the gov loan. So roughly it will take me around 6 years to break even and 8 if its the total cost.
Which I didn't think was too bad…? But after reading all these comments I'm having a lot of doubts.
I don't regret installing my system, which if nothing else gives me guilt-free air-conditioning over summer, and is almost worth it for that piece of mind alone. I can even justify leaving the aircon on for the dogs when I go out in the middle of a hot day.
I've also shifted some ad hoc usage, like clothes washing, from off peak hours to when the sun is out, but in the end there's not a huge amount of discretionary use worth the effort of shuffling things around.
I also took the Vic solar interest free loan, which is a pretty great deal given current interest rates, but the −$38.54 debit from my account each month detracts a bit from the perceived savings. It doesn't change the pay-back calculation though, it's still roughly 8 years either way.
Essentially, with the loan, you're taking the $50 you save each month and for the first four years you're using that to pay back the monthly solarvic $38.54 debit from your accounts, not leaving you much in the way of total energy savings.
The price of electricity will continue to go up, energy retailers gotta nickel and dime to keep the shareholders happy, because a company not making more profits than last year is no good and executives lose their jobs or bonuses.
So as the devil’s advocate - not having panels will mean you end up paying more money to support those of us who are not paying for electricity during the day.
But when I look at our usage we normally use the most energy in the evenings when solar doesn’t work, so we now use the dishwasher and washing machine etc during the day to offset and have chosen the best feed in tariff rate which is no where near what we pay for off peak energy even.
The payoff for this system will be closer to 10 years, when the system needs to be replaced anyway, panels don’t last forever. Never believe what the installer says they just want the $$$. Do your own calculations.
The inverter, in theory, will need to be replaced some time between 10 and 15 years. Solar panels, however, will easily last between 25 and 30 years.
Furthermore, when you do need to replace the inverter it's a simple matter of pulling the old one off the wall and sticking a new one on. All the cabling should still be good, and will remain good for the life of the building.
When someone does need to replace a standard inverter the current replacement cost for most situations should be less than $1500, which is a small fraction of the initial installation cost.
No it’s not a good price but the price will vary.
First 4kw or solar will not give you what you want in my opinion, I just installed 13kw - bigger space to install obviously in rural (430 kms from Adelaide) for $6600.
When I did my calculations it was going to take 5 years to break even, so your breakeven will be much longer at that price vs panel configuration.
If I had installed on my home in the city it would have been a lot cheaper.
The problem is that you have a two storey home and this probably has a health and safety requirement for scaffolding for the workers so keep that In mind for pricing.
Finally with 4kw of panels you won’t get 4kw of electricity as the power generated increases as the sun is more directly overhead so at lunchtime awesome, but for the rest of the day it will be lessening. Also with 4kw of panels they may well use a smaller inverter that doesn’t allow for the maximum power to be generated anyway.
That's an impressive price/kW @ ~$500/kW. What panels and inverter did they install?
Solis inverter and jinko panels. Actually the price was $6900 through Sunboost solar.
Microinverters are a waste of money. Time and time again, independent studies have shown that decent quality string inverters (Fronius, Sungrow, SMA etc.) and modern panels with bypass diodes will perform better than or as well as micros even in shaded environments.
That's a horrendous price too. I had 20kW of solar installed last year for $13k.
Its just due to the awkward spacing on my roof that requires me to use microinverters
Microinverters will be better in your situation anyhow because they have a 25 year warranty, not 10 years, and therefore should not normally need to be replaced within the life of the solar panels. Furthermore, the additional up-front cost will be partially offset by not having to replace a string inverter in 10 years.
Additionally, even if one of the microinverters did fail you would still be able to use the remainder of your solar panels. If a string inverter goes out your entire solar array goes out with it.
Basically, microinverters have many advantages for second story roofs because it's much less likely that someone will need to get up on your roof to play around with them under normal conditions.
Do you (anyone) have any papers comparing Microinverters and Strings?
All I could find is a few blogs, like
https://www.penrithsolar.com.au/blog/microinverters-vs-strin…
https://vistaelectricalcontrols.com.au/string-inverters-vs-m…
which don't seem to understand bypass diodes,
or https://ornatesolar.com/blog/are-microinverters-better-than-…
which mentions a 30%shade=70%output figure,
or https://www.nrgsolar.com.au/blog/enphase-fronius-testing-sta…
that says with full sun, a string outperformed microinverters!
and https://www.choice.com.au/home-improvement/energy-saving/sol…
which at least mentions "conventional wisdom" and "recent tests"
This page: https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/string-vs-micro-inverter…
references the following French study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S101836392…
That Penrith Solar page is good too.
From memory there's other studies around the web too but all of them come to the same conclusion - micros are a waste of money and good quality string inverters perform better than or as good as micros in shaded environments and outperform them in non shaded environments.
The only tangible benefit of micros is being able to see per panel performance and you can see if there's an issue with one. I'd prefer to go on the roof with a multimeter and check if I have to.
Thanks.
I saw that study, but it seems to be bulk data from a number of customer installs.
Not actual scientific bench tests in varied conditions.
Nup, terrible value for money.
$3k for a 6.6kw system is about par.
+$300 for a 2 story townhouse
With micro inverters? That's cheap.
Thats with a standard inverter.
Micro inverters are overrated. Split cell solar panel technology have vastly improved shaded panel performance.
If you need microinverters just to get an output i dont think a solar system is going to work out
Op said micro inverter system.
So I wanted to confirm that your system price was not, and confirmed it.
Thanks.
@dasher86: yeah it seems like either microinverters are just very expensive or I'm getting overquoted
from a Fronius fanboy:
Enphase microinverters are often the best solar inverter solution for townhouses and unit situations.
They are cost-effective for smaller systems.
Because they work independently of each other, they work well on small – multi-oriented roofs.
You only have an indiscreet box to install on a communal wall or in your unit, keeping that whinging chairman of the body corporate happy.
Because we run AC cable from the roof, the cable run can usually be more discreet and snuck inside wall cavities. You are welcome, Mr Chairman.
Got to love the vast quality of the information supplied for others to make a very informed decision…. NOT
How much rood space do you have?
Which direction is the roof facing?
Is the roof shaded during the day?
Are there any obstacles on the roof? TV antenna, pipe for venting stuff?
Is the townhouse a single or double story?
What size are the panels size?
What Wattage are the panels?