Who Is at Fault? (Car Reversing out of Driveway)

GachaGamer on 02/04/2024 - 14:25
Last edited 04/04/2024 - 19:52 by 1 other user

So, it's one of those times again.

Driving, exiting a roundabout, driving straight, a car suddenly exits their driveway with no indication. I forcibly swerve my car to see if I can avoid him and we unfortunately hit each other the back of his car is damaged, whilst the side and back of mine is. The driver is a man in his 80's, admits fault for reversing as I was going past (50km zone) - unfortunately neither side made a written or recorded agreement.

Both agree to not involve insurance, and we'd both be in contact later. A week passes, gets a call from the man's son saying that his dad would require $1k for the repair. Asks me how I would like to pay. I'm confused, his dad already agreed he was at fault, and that they would be paying for my repairs (not the other way around). Can't agree, argument ensues. Neither party has dashcam footage.

So who is actually at fault?

Obligatory MS paint.

For reference, between the exit of the roundabout and the old guy's house, it's about 8 metres* (for tht one guy), with a crosswalk about 6 metres before it.

Forgot to say, I'm from Vic, so by right, the reversing give way rules are on my side.

Edit.

So the son said they had security footage, and the claim is that they'll show it to the police station since neither party can agree on fault. I'm not sure if the Police station can actually make a verdict or not, but it seems the only choice is insurance, or both parties just drop it. Now the problem with going with insurance is this: my excess is 900. The insurer is unlikely to waive the excess, and the repairs are likely less than the damn excess. Do I go through with insurance just to prove a point, or do I just take the L.

FYI the argument the son is making is that because his dad was exiting slowly, and I was apparently going fast, I'm at fault for not stopping when his dad was "clearly" reversing onto the main road (his argument hinges on security footage that he says shows his dad already had a wheel on the main road (even if he was doing it slow).

Edit 2.

So figured I'd update you folks, and after waiting on the phone for 2 hours finally managed to speak to someone on the other end. I explained the situation, and they agreed that I was not at fault, and that provided I can give them the details of the other party (I can and did), they would waive the excess (I assumed they wouldn't since I had a previous incident about 6 years ago - also not at fault - where they did not waive it. So all's well but ends well? (assuming nothing else happens of course - no death flag intended).

Poll Options expired

  • 10
    I'm at fault
  • 576
    He's at fault
Automotive

Comments

  • Breno785au on 03/04/2024 - 13:29
    +1

    This sounds like a great Judge Judy case.

  • gromit on 03/04/2024 - 14:03
    +4

    Now the problem with going with insurance is this: my excess is 900. The insurer is unlikely to waive the excess, and the repairs are likely less than the damn excess. Do I go through with insurance just to prove a point, or do I just take the L.

    your excess is refunded to you assuming you are declared not at fault. So assuming your story is 100% factual you have very little risk of losing 900.

    • trapper on 04/04/2024 - 09:51

      The excess won't even be charged in the first place.

      • gromit on 04/04/2024 - 14:01

        It sometimes is when there is a dispute. e.g. I was hit in a carpark and the driver tried to claim it was my fault somehow (he rear ended me). I had to initially pay the excess and had that refunded.

  • Dollar General on 03/04/2024 - 14:54

    If repairs are less than cost of excess, send the driver a letter of demand & make it a civil matter. Bit of work involved though.

    The security footage he has helps with your case based on what you have written (but not seeing the footage)

  • digitalbath on 03/04/2024 - 15:31

    So you have no proof, no photos, your word against his. Choose a handshake agreement instead of involving insurance.
    Now they aren’t coming to the party? Haha.

  • lonewolf on 03/04/2024 - 15:53
    +3

    While the old man sounds like he is in the wrong as he does have to give way, the thing i will add is i wish people driving on suburban streets will be just a bit mindful of people trying to get out of their driveways, I always reverse park so i can come out headfirst but even still at some houses / driveways, especially with randoms parking massive SUVs or UTEs on the street outside, even when you inch your way out slowly trying to see between the dark tinted windows of the cars and also between the cars to see if you can see any cars coming, at times you end up in a situation where you have to slowly inch your way out until you are far enough that you can see yourself of course by that point if the car had been speeding or not paying attention, they may still hit the front of your car.

    • Doofie69er on 03/04/2024 - 16:33
      -6

      exactly - sounds like a lot of the road users on this forum are inexperienced on inner city roads

  • justAguyHere on 03/04/2024 - 16:57
    +1

    Call the insurance company and let them know every detail. I got into a small incident where I was making a right turn and one coming car kissed my front bumper, I thought it was all my fault and even called the insurance company and told them that. But later on from the dashcam footage, they found the coming car was trying to outrun the traffic light by using the bus lane. I did not pay anything at the end, my car was fixed within a week after dropping off to the workshop they appointed.

    • Roney on 04/04/2024 - 01:11
      +3

      Sounds like you've got a reputable insurance company! Can we please do us all a favour by telling us the name?

  • harrywwc on 03/04/2024 - 17:00

    insurance - let them deal with the crap from the son.

  • pop4 on 03/04/2024 - 17:08
    +4

    The roundabout is irrelevant: the other vehicle failed to give way while entering a road from a road related area or adjacent land.

    From VicRoads:
    "Entering or leaving the road

    You must give way to all vehicles and pedestrians when you enter or leave the road from a driveway or adjacent land."

    Further details at ROAD SAFETY ROAD RULES 2017 - REG 74

  • saine on 03/04/2024 - 17:25

    Insurance companies can waive the excess when you're not at fault.

    (Currently me.)

  • Assburg on 03/04/2024 - 18:19
    +1

    Cars coming from private property always give way to cars on the road - this is the requirement at law for traffic offences.

    In terms of damage arising from accidents like this, when considering civil liability, road users have a duty of care to one another, and to pedestrians.

    If you think you can establish on the balance of probabilities that you did not only nothing wrong, but nothing breaching your duty of care to the man reversing, then you should be fine, go to your insurer.

    Note, the fact you swerved and mitigated the accident severity suggests to me you fulfilled your duty in full, and the other party is fully liable.

    Note, the above does not constitute professional legal advice and if it goes to trial there's a possibility you'll be considered partly liable.

    • Doofie69er on 03/04/2024 - 19:33
      -4

      Exactly all it takes is the old man to claim the OP was excessively accelerating and/or speeding and the court could very well find the OP partially to blame. This comment will get neg but people find the law difficult to understand.

      • rumblytangara on 03/04/2024 - 19:38

        This comment will get neg but people find the law difficult to understand.

        So…. are you a lawyer?

        • Doofie69er on 03/04/2024 - 19:56
          -2

          34 years experience

          • brendanm on 03/04/2024 - 21:34
            +2

            @Doofie69er: Mate, you don't even know the difference between breaking and braking, your aren't a lawyer 😂

          • redfox1200 on 04/04/2024 - 12:28
            +2

            @Doofie69er: DAMN AND YOU STILL DON'T KNOW THE ROAD RULES, I HOPE I NEVER HIRE YOU BY ACCIDENT

      • trapper on 04/04/2024 - 09:54

        Exactly all it takes is the old man to claim the OP was excessively accelerating and/or speeding and the court could very well find the OP partially to blame.

        No chance.

        • Doofie69er on 04/04/2024 - 10:36
          -3

          So your saying if you were at a giveway and didnt see a driver going 200km/h in a 60 zone it still be your fault? No chance

          • redfox1200 on 04/04/2024 - 12:29
            +1

            @Doofie69er: DIDN'T KNOW THAT OP GOING 50KM/H IN A 50 ZONE WAS SPEEDING, THANKS FOR LETTING ME KNOW

            • Doofie69er on 04/04/2024 - 16:18
              -3

              @redfox1200: he could have been doing a massive burnout for all we know.

          • trapper on 04/04/2024 - 13:46

            @Doofie69er: Yes, an outrageous lie like that would not be believable at all.

            No chance.

          • brendanm on 06/04/2024 - 20:57
            -1

            @Doofie69er: It's "you're" not "your" Mr lawyer.

      • smartazz104 on 04/04/2024 - 10:18

        Exactly all it takes is the

        OP to claim the old man's eyesight is failing and boom, there goes his license.

  • Kranbone on 03/04/2024 - 18:26

    He's at fault. Call his bluff and tell him to come to the police station. Next time just involve your insurance, that's what you pay them for.

  • McFly on 03/04/2024 - 18:42
    +1

    footage that he says shows his dad already had a wheel on the main road

    Oh, he "had a wheel" on the road… case closed! You owe them $1,000 plus interest, plus psychological damage, plus lost wages, plus a hot lunch.
    What a dumbass thing for him to say. SMH

  • Johnsy5252 on 03/04/2024 - 19:16
    +1

    I have to reverse onto a busy main road and wouldn’t dream of reversing in front of an oncoming vehicle. Time to get a dash cam mate. Might solve a multitude of hassles.

  • Zondor on 03/04/2024 - 21:13

    Their house is in a terrible location for this but that's there problem not yours.

  • logistics on 03/04/2024 - 21:16

    The person reversing has a duty of care and are automatically at fault. It's as black-and-white as a car hitting another car in front and them being automatically at fault for not keeping distance.

    They can say whatever they want and provide whatever footage they want; at the end of the day, they were revering and thus as fault. That's all the insurance company needs to know.

    Regarding your excess, depending on the Insurance company you are with, some won't ask for excess until the matter is settled while others ask you to pay up front but then refund once they confirm you are not at fault.

    It's never too late to raise it with your Insurer. I'd take that path and let them deal with it.

  • nobro25 on 03/04/2024 - 22:53

    Better Call Saul!!! Or Bikies….. Or both!!!

  • Randxyz123 on 04/04/2024 - 00:32

    Why not just make an insurance claim and let them deal with it. This is what you pay them to do.

  • aboogee on 04/04/2024 - 00:34

    If you are confident that he is at fault + you think your own repair costs less than $900, then (1) let him take to police and (2) dont repair and dont involve insurance first.

    What is the worst thing that could happen? Footage shows you are indeed at fault and then you pay $900 excess at that point.

  • hasher22 on 04/04/2024 - 00:36

    Sweet, from the son's logic, im gonna exit, enter and drive slowly and if I do get into a car accident, I am not a fault cause I was going slowly.

  • RainbowChad on 04/04/2024 - 03:25

    Remind his greedy son that you know where he lives

  • sophielouise869 on 04/04/2024 - 06:07

    I went through a similar scenario in a carpark.

    I made an insurance claim and mentioned the other driver was at fault. I submitted photos of the damage on my car, photographs where the accident occurred and mocked up a picture on paint showing how the accident happened. The insurance company deemed the other driver at fault and my damage was paid for by them.

    I hope it works out for you. They definitely sound in the wrong.

  • chillin222 on 04/04/2024 - 07:27

    Why is everyone saying the OP needs to go through insurance?

    A car accident is a civil matter that anyone can deal with. When insurance are involved they are simply acting as your agent in civil proceedings.

    If the OP doesn't want to involve their insurance company, there is no issue with that. The next steps are simple - a letter of demand, followed by filing a Statement of Claim at the Small Claims Court.

    • ajm07 on 04/04/2024 - 07:33

      Probably experience.

      My first car bungle it was a nightmare trying to deal directly. Started out simple but it always devolves. At least it has in this case.

      Life just got easier when deciding to lodge a claim. Done.

      Maybe some people have good experiences the other way and are just better at dealing with people directly.

    • squaredonut on 04/04/2024 - 09:11
      +3

      Because you pay for comprehensive insurance to deal with these headaches and dishonest people of society who decide to take you for a ride.

    • trapper on 04/04/2024 - 09:35
      +1

      A car accident is a civil matter that anyone can deal with. When insurance are involved they are simply acting as your agent in civil proceedings.

      Yes that's why you have been paying them every month. To act as your agent in this exact situation… why would you do it all yourself??

      Use the agent you are already paying for.

    • joelmuzz on 04/04/2024 - 12:47

      Because it wastes hours preparing and usually attending the court. And then when you win all you get is a court order saying they have to pay you, but it is your problem to chase that up and lodge more recovery action if they ignore you. It can take years to get paid, especially with a pensioner who might have a legitimate hardship claim or might even die before settlement.

      Part of what you pay insurance for is to eliminate that. Comprehensive insurance will pay/repair in a few phonecalls and you never hear about them chasing the cash for another 3 years.

  • Miss B on 04/04/2024 - 07:50
    +2

    Send a message to the driver saying something like "As you were entering the road from a driveway you need to give way to all traffic. As you are making things difficult despite knowing you are at fault I will just let my insurance handle this. Please do submit the footage to insurance as this will make things easier. The police are unable to assist in these matters, but please feel free to submit the footage of you failing to give way to them as well."

  • kalithreaver on 04/04/2024 - 08:34

    He has to give way as hes entering the road, you are already on the road. Get your insurance company involved.

  • squaredonut on 04/04/2024 - 09:10
    +1

    Ask for a copy of the footage from the son, it's great evidence for you to give to your insurance.

  • trapper on 04/04/2024 - 09:28
    +1

    Both agree to not involve insurance, and we'd both be in contact later.

    Why do people do this… you are not at fault, you will pay nothing.

    Use your insurance, even if you are at fault it's almost always better to use your insurance.

    • Hangryuman on 04/04/2024 - 13:19

      a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it's written on - forget that and claim the full amount on insurance as indicated by the insurance expert below

  • Eeples on 04/04/2024 - 11:11

    Claim.

    Don’t communicate anymore with the Son or driver.

  • joelmuzz on 04/04/2024 - 12:36

    Generally the reversing car, to be your fault it would have to be stopped or moving forward prior to you exiting the roundabout, or proof you were majorly speeding.

    But your options are court and a lot of time wasted chasing up the payment. Or simply lodge the claim and cease contact.

  • WhatWouldBiggieDo on 04/04/2024 - 13:12
    +3

    I used to work for a large insurance company in settlements and recoveries whilst I was at uni. In the 4+ years I was there, I never saw a reversing party be deemed not at fault - it's just not the way it works. The road rules say you should only reverse if it's safe to do so, and if there's a car approaching it isn't safe to do so.

    I am 100% sure that your insurer will side with you and not charge you an excess. Block the son's number and lodge an insurance claim and let them deal with it.

  • 4foxache on 04/04/2024 - 13:12

    The difficulty with insurance is they usually go off the rule if you hit someone from behind it's your fault.

    Technically I agree he shouldn't have been reversing out of his driveway at that time as he needs to giveway to the incoming traffic.

    The challenge is neither of you have dashcam footage to prove what actually happened. In either case it's up to insurance to argue that between parties.

  • Hangryuman on 04/04/2024 - 13:17

    reversing out of a driveway is a major irrit for me -

    not least for the regular stories of parent who didn't see the infant who wandered behind to car to see parent departing - reversed, crushed, killed - golly, how did that happen !?!?!?!

    WTF - simply reverse in to your yard when you see there is no infant standing in the way, and then you will ready to drive straight out with best visibility next day, especially if during busy traffic times. Reversing onto a busy road generally strikes me as unbelievable stupidity.

    sounds like the son is trying a game "I've got video" - call his BS and say "sure - let's go to the police to discuss responsibility - old man should get an unsafe driving charge" - that should put a cork in his claims that you are at fault.

    • fredk1000 on 04/04/2024 - 21:48

      I would agree with you, I always reverse into my driveway for this reason. Plus also there is a slight incline, reverse upwards, so the rear windscreen and camera sees the sky, so you can't see anything.

      But I can see in some situations say you lived on a really busy road, sometimes it is so busy you can only drive into the driveway, reversing is impossible because the person is too close behind and has not idea you are indicating to reverse into a drive way. And the parking spot is tight.

      I feel sorry for anyone who lives on a major multi lane road, I could not do it every day.

  • Brianqpr on 04/04/2024 - 13:41

    You have to give way to traffic already on the road. His fault. The son is just trying it on.

  • Bignudge on 04/04/2024 - 13:49
    +2

    If you've got comprehensive insurance, have his full name and address, and the dude actually reversed out of his driveway into oncomming traffic…. then lodge a claim.

    You won't be pay excess at all. (Your premiums may go up during renewal though. Also some insurances will ask if you've made a claim whether at fault or not in the past 3/5 years etc)

  • pulpfiction on 04/04/2024 - 13:59
    +1

    100% they will be found at fault. There may be an argument for shared responsibility if the front of your car hit his, however, it sounds like he didn't stop until he collided with your car (striking mid-way).

    Tell them what you're doing and that you're ceasing contact so that your insurer can handle it from here. It's good trying to do the right thing, but they're being shit about it.

  • b0rnwithabeard on 04/04/2024 - 16:20

    Go to insurance. Seems like a pretty easy one here - i have no idea what drugs those people saying you're at fault are smoking.

  • Marcsie on 04/04/2024 - 17:59

    1st question,do you have insurance ?

  • Relapse on 04/04/2024 - 18:58

    Was he established in the lane and you rear ended him?

  • Pufff on 05/04/2024 - 08:19

    His sons an idiot.
    Hopefully their whole family and then the extended family learn the road rule isn't people should notice you coming or going and give way to them. Unless the sons driving an ambulance for a living. Don't let them get away with this.

  • kiitos on 05/04/2024 - 08:46

    Good outcome OP

  • Hangryuman on 05/04/2024 - 10:39

    'not at fault, and that provided I can give them the details of the other party (I can and did), they would waive the excess'

    OP shoots, OP scores ! A Win for the Ozbargain community - Yay !

  • keejoonc on 05/04/2024 - 11:32

    At fault driver's son is just like so many entitled drivers on the road these days where they think indicating gives them an automatic right to change lanes nilly willy.

  • Nirmitha on 05/04/2024 - 16:24
    +1

    Glad it is seemingly working out for you via insurance.

    Be ruthless in this instance when it comes to next steps. The son may try to reach out for a compromise. But he was clearly being dishonest (twisting his dad's admission of fault), twisting the law (pretty straightforward here) and trying to manipulate you with police threats when this isn't a police matter.

    He made the situation worse for himself through this conduct.

  • andyken on 05/04/2024 - 19:11

    Call his son and say "well, you try your luck and you are f#ked now", wait from my insurance letter.

  • Willy Beamish on 06/04/2024 - 09:47
    +1

    Send it to insurance and let them deal with it, security footage is probably a bluff since they flipped the story so hard.

    If they reversed out into you then they are at fault since you are already on the road.

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