Know Your Rights - Second Hand Cars

LSirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 15:17

Note this might only apply to qld. Please check within your own state.

When you purchase a car from a dealer or, in some cases, an auctioneer (grays, pickles etc) you are eligible for a statutory warranty in many cases.

https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-acc…

This warranty covers most mechanical defects.

"A statutory warranty will cover most defects. The vehicle has a defect if a part:

does not do what it is supposed to do
has worn out so much that it no longer works.
A statutory warranty does not cover defects in:

tyres or tyre tubes, batteries, fitted airbags or radiator hoses
lights (other than a warning light or a turn indicator light used as a hazard light)
an installed radio, tape recorder or CD player
an aerial, spark plug, wiper rubber, distributor point, oil or oil filter, heater hose, fuel or air filter
paintwork or upholstery
air conditioning ('class B' statutory warranties only).
Statutory warranty also doesn’t cover:

accidental damage due to the buyer’s own misuse or negligence
anything the buyer fitted to the vehicle after the time of sale."

The dealer will try to bullshit to you about it not covering wear and tear, but it does. If the ball joints are worn out, it's covered, if there are oil leaks, it's covered, if your exhaust has a hole in it, its covered, if your gearbox isnt functioning EXACTLY like it should, its covered. The legislation lists very few circumstances where something won't be covered.

If your dealer does try to screw you out of statutory warranty repairs you CAN search for previously judged QCAT (small claims court) cases and use those as evidence to push your case. When they know they won't win in QCAT they will, most of the time, give in to what YOU ARE LEGALLY ENTITLED TO. Make it clear that you will take it that far.

Don't be stupid, or unreasonable. You're not getting a brand new 2024 car to replace the 10 year old lemon you got lumped with, but also don't be afraid to push for your lawfull entitlements under your statutory warranty.

This comes from personal experience.. I bought a car without a mechanical inspection (always get a mechanical inspection). My car ended up needing a good $6000 in repairs, including a replacement gearbox. Yes, I had to fight for it, for nothing more than I was legally entitled. 8 weeks so far and nearly have the car back, but they've caved on everything.

Don't blame the victim. A dealer has to give a statutory warranty so if they choose to sell a car that they know is faulty it's a risk that THEY take. Buyers shouldnt have to foot the bill for a bad trade in the dealer took, then decided to act shady on by selling it as is… but still, get a mechanical inspection if for no other reason that saving yourself the hassle.

Queue the dealers crying about the law screwing them etc.

Automotive

Comments

  • iforgotmysocks on 23/05/2024 - 15:19
    +19

    Ok

  • Sye on 23/05/2024 - 15:31
    -1

    What model of car did you buy?

    • randomusername2017 on 23/05/2024 - 15:51

      The 6k repairs required upgraded model.

    • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 15:56
      +7

      Screams VW (insert DSG model here) to me.

      Possibly a 2012 Ford Focus with PowerShit transmission.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:26
        +1

        Interestingly a 2012 passat with dsg is what i just got rid of, though the dsg was fine.

        New car is a 2010 ford falcon with the german made zf box… just got unlucky as normally they're a pretty bulletproof box.

        • pharkurnell on 23/05/2024 - 16:53

          Quick google will show the ZF is known to fail… mate has also been through this… cost him 3800 to fix… quotes went up to $7000.. Now his cheapy repair is failing too out of warranty

          • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 16:55
            +2

            @pharkurnell: The gearbox cooler fails and allows coolant to go into the gearbox, ruining it, they just need a good aftermarket cooler fitted before it happens.

            • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:57
              +2

              @brendanm: Yep.. thats about their only achillies heel. That and people believing the 'sealed for life' bs that ford aus pushed.

              Mine didnt milkshake. Likely the latter scenario. Ive got an air to oil cooler here ready to go in the moment i get it back.

              • JIMB0 on 23/05/2024 - 21:25
                +1

                @SirFaffer:

                Yep.. thats about their only achillies heel.

                Not if the Falcon is anything like the Territory.

                • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 21:41
                  +1

                  @JIMB0: referring to the gearbox, not the car as a whole.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 23/05/2024 - 15:59
      +2

      Was it compatible with roof racks for kayak?

    • spackbace on 23/05/2024 - 16:10
      +8

      2010 FG XR50 in viper purple from Grays

      I did factor in having to swap in a second hand transmission if it was cactus, but the existing one seems fine. :D

      Lol

      • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 16:24
        +3

        Lol. FFS.

        Here is the beast in question

        • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:29

          Yes thats it.

            • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:35

              @Muzeeb: Good internet sleuthing. That is, in fact, my car.

            • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 16:36
              +8

              @Muzeeb: What the hell, paid $5k for a Falcon from an auction, then complains the gearbox is dead? I can't actually believe that grays would cover any of the costs, it's not their problem, auction vehicles like this are as is where is.

              • spackbace on 23/05/2024 - 16:45

                @brendanm: Unfortunately not, read the link in OP's post. They still have to provide a 1 month, 1,000km stat warranty.

                I think most states would give zero warranty on a car with 218,000kms on the clock (WA for one), but QLD are dumb

                Not to mention the car was sold unreg

                • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 16:49
                  +1

                  @spackbace: According to the link,

                  vehicles being sold on consignment, unless the owner of the vehicle is a licensee

                  Are exempt from providing a statutory warranty. Pretty sure if I've sent things to auction in the past, they come under this banner. As you say, it's even unregistered, and over 200k km, seems insane. I might just have to buy shitboxes then get them fixed for free.

                  • spackbace on 23/05/2024 - 16:51

                    @brendanm: https://support.grays.com/hc/en-au/articles/11671439267609-M…

                    A statutory warranty does not apply to motor vehicles sold on consignment, unless the owner of the vehicle is a motor dealer or someone who sells goods by auction (ie Grays). A statutory warranty also does not apply to purchasers who are motor dealers.

                    • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 16:54

                      @spackbace: To me, that reads that it only applies if grays themselves (or similar) owned the vehicle. I know this is the case for some vehicles sent to auction, and how the pickles "buy my car", or whatever it's called, works. Perhaps I'm incorrect.

                      • spackbace on 23/05/2024 - 16:55
                        +1

                        @brendanm: True, does depend I think on who has ownership of the vehicle and what Gray's does in the process. If that was a dealer trade-in, then either the dealer still owns it or Grays does…
                        Might do some digging to see what the go is :)

                  • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:02

                    @brendanm: Nothing is stopping you… the law exists, why wouldnt you use it for your own advantage? You can be sure businesses do all the time.

                    • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 17:03
                      -5

                      @SirFaffer: It is sold as is, where is, and cheap for that reason. I know the risk I'm taking going into it.

                      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:07
                        +6

                        @brendanm: So youre telling me that youll pay 6k out of pocket when you dont have to, just to hold yourself to some personal principal rather than the law? What do you owe to them (dealers)?

                        Besides, it wasnt sold as is, where is… im not taking them to court for civil damages… it came with a warranty that was provided by law and i am utilising it as i am allowed to by law.

                        There is a saying.. the law is the law is the law… we are all bound to it, including dealers and auctioneers. They know that going in and factor their pricing and business structute to compensate for it.

                  • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:03
                    +2

                    @brendanm: My car came with a statutory warranty.. if, but, why or how are irrelevent really. It did, it has one, thats it.

                    • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 17:04
                      -5

                      @SirFaffer: It shouldn't. This sort of thing pushes auction prices even further up for people who actually know what they are doing.

                      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:10

                        @brendanm: So what you are saying, is it hurts dealers and car flippers who buy at auction and arent eligible to receive or utilise said warranty, but have to pay higher prices as a result?

                        Im ok with that. Falls under not my concern.

                        • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 17:16
                          -4

                          @SirFaffer: No, simply anyone with any idea buying at auction. You purchased a $5k, 14 year old, over 200k km vehicle from auction with no inspection. Any issues should be on you.

                          • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:23
                            +2

                            @brendanm: But theyre not, are they? They were required by law to give a warranty, now they have to honour that warranty. That is their cost of doing business.

                            • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 17:26
                              -5

                              @SirFaffer: They should be. I'm a fan of personal responsibility.

                              • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:46
                                +2

                                @brendanm: My personal responsibility is to me and my family, not to a multimillion dollar corporation. Their shareholders can afford it, i cant. - im not working as my daughter was hit by a car in october and now has brain damage… but thats moot, the law is on my side and thats that.

                                • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 18:00
                                  -5

                                  @SirFaffer: I believe personal responsibility for people when buying things listed as "as is where is" from an auction, is that you accept it as you get it. If you want a warranty, go to a dealer.

                                  im not working as my daughter was hit by a car in october and now has brain damage…

                                  Unsure why this meant that you had to purchase a purple fg xr6?

                                  • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:19
                                    +4

                                    @brendanm: But, it came with a warranty… and im using it. Thats not illegal or immoral.

                                    My point was, unlike you i cant afford to self warrant.. i bought this car because it fit my budget and circumstance AND came with a warranty.

                • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 22:08

                  @spackbace: unfortunately? For grays? Sure.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:00

        Yes, it did seem fine. Only displayed issue in a very specific scenario. However once taken apart it was clear that there wrre faulty intetnal components.

        I did factor in having to replace the transmission, but thankfully that fell under the warranty… happy days.

        Does this help?

  • kerfuffle on 23/05/2024 - 15:32
    +2

    You posted this on Reddit too, right

  • geekcohen on 23/05/2024 - 15:33

    TL;DR

    In Queensland, when you buy a car from a dealer or some auctioneers, you're often eligible for a statutory warranty that covers most mechanical defects. This includes worn-out parts, oil leaks, and malfunctioning gearboxes. However, it doesn’t cover items like tyres, batteries, and certain accessories. If a dealer tries to deny your warranty claims, you can use QCAT cases as evidence to enforce your rights. Always get a mechanical inspection before buying, but know that you're legally entitled to repairs under this warranty.

    • AustriaBargain on 23/05/2024 - 15:44
      +1

      The things it does cover are pretty substantial, as far as used cars go. This is good info, for Queenslanders anyway.

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:15

      That's a good summary. Cheers.

  • geekcohen on 23/05/2024 - 15:35

    Also, in some cases, there is a warranty period of 5,000kms or 3 months (whatever comes first) according to ACCC (from my memory when we had issues with my wife's X3 when we bought that second hand).

  • jv on 23/05/2024 - 15:37
    +2

    In VIC

    A licensed motor car trader must provide a statutory warranty if the car:
    is less than 10 years old, and
    has travelled less than 160,000 kilometres.

  • mskeggs on 23/05/2024 - 15:50

    I don't like your chances of getting an oil leak fixed under a statutory warranty.
    Leaking a bit of oil isn't failing to work or do what it is supposed to do.
    Same with worn parts - if they function for 5k or 3 months, that's all that is covered.
    If your gearbox had kept going for 4 months you wouldn't be covered.

    And you pay a premium to buy from a dealer for this coverage, compared to a private sale.

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:11
      +5

      https://www.queenslandjudgments.com.au/caselaw/qcat/2021/17

      This determines otherwise. :)

      • mskeggs on 23/05/2024 - 17:09

        That is very interesting!

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/05/2024 - 17:39
        +1

        Determined because the dealer didn't show up. Don't think this is a precedent. Just another example of someone buying a 10+ year old, near 200k km euro with absolutely no idea. If you can't afford a new BMW, you can't afford an old one.

        • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:54

          Agreed on the old euro thing… thats why i sold my 12yo vw diesel dsg and replaced it with an aussie falcon thats cheaper to maintain.

          • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 22:55
            +2

            @SirFaffer: 2.0tdi and 6 speed wet clutch dsg is an extremely reliable combo, and very fuel efficient. You now have a fuel guzzler.

          • Euphemistic on 24/05/2024 - 09:01

            @SirFaffer: Cheaper to maintain after $6k in repairs? Gotcha.

  • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 15:54
    +3

    Why do people spend so much money and do such little research?

    The fact that people still purchase used Captiva's and Cruze's shows how easily some people hand their money over. FFS.

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:37
      +1

      I did plenty of research. Which is why it took me less than a day after receiving the vehicle to personally go over it and find about 8 items that ought to be covered under warranty. :) - and ARE getting fixed under warranty.

    • pharkurnell on 23/05/2024 - 16:59

      Because its purple… and nobody else on earth wanted that colour

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:57
        +5

        I love it… the roads are too full of shades of grey. Give me purple, bright green, electric blue and so on… shit on it if you want, from your dull car, i dont care. :)

        • miwahni on 23/05/2024 - 22:00
          +1

          I loved the "jelly bean" colours that the Fords came in. I think yours is brilliant.

  • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 16:01

    Queue the dealers crying about the law screwing them etc.

    Don't be a dick

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:39
      +2

      I found the used car dealer, did I?

  • cashless on 23/05/2024 - 16:03
    +1

    Queue the dealers crying about the law screwing them

    Why would the dealers be queueing?

  • El cheepo on 23/05/2024 - 16:07
    +1

    Don't be stupid,

    This means getting a mechanical check before purchasing an older car.

    the 10 year old lemon you got lumped with,

    I would refer to the afore mentioned advice…

    But anyway, Back to the main point here…

    but also don't be afraid to push for your lawfull entitlements under your statutory warranty.

    Absolutely.
    But don’t be stupid and buy an old car with out getting it checked…

    Otherwise this happens:

    I had to fight for it, for nothing more than I was legally entitled. 8 weeks so far and nearly have the car back, but they've caved on everything.

    Its all well and good to fight for your rights, but who wants 2 months+ of stress and troubles to deal with what could of been avoided…

    Some cars you can take an educated guess/risk and avoid a check… but a 10 yo car… LOL.

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:12

      Which is why i posted.. maybe it helps someone else.

      Thanks though.

  • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:20
    +6

    If anyone is wondering why i didnt get a pre purchase done.. the car was from auction (but with statutory warranty) and i found it only after the inspection period had ceased and its an uncommon model in a less common colour (2010 falcon xr50 in viper purple) that i really wanted… i knew full well that i may have to lean on the warranty, was prepared to do so and am not angry about it. What does annoy me is having to fight for legal entitlements… but still, i knew id have to and was prepared for that eventuality.
    If it didnt come with a stat warranty i wouldnt have bid on it to start with.

    What i did notice is a lot of people buying used cars from dealers and then getting shafted on the statutory warranty by being told things aren't covered when they are… im hoping this post helps people in that situation. This post isn't for any sort of validation… I don't care what you think, what I care about is others not getting screwed because they're a little less clued in that I am.

    • El cheepo on 23/05/2024 - 16:30

      With full context this is a much clearer story and makes sense where you are coming at it from.

      Should add it to your main post.

      • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 16:31
        +1

        But then there would be less forum drama if all the facts were clear from the get go.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:32
        +1

        The original post was meant to help people know their rights in case a dealer does try to screw them. Which does happen a lot.

        But you can be assured that on the internet every prior school bully will pop up to shit on you to make themselves feel less worthless.
        Its a shame, but ill live with it in the hope that just one person finds it useful and avoids getting screwed over.

      • randomusername2017 on 23/05/2024 - 16:36

        Isn't there a word limit 🤔

        • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:40
          +2

          I tried to find it, but failed.

    • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 17:06

      Buying from a used car dealer, and buying from an "as is where is" auction, are two very different things.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:00
        +1

        Not if they come with the same warranty.. that overrules any claim about 'as is where is'.

        You wouldnt be happy if you went to buy a phone that should come with warranty, only to be told 'we have to give you this warranty but the phone is as is where is'… if it died youd 100% be claiming it… have you ever looked into consumer protections? They supercede warranties.

        • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 18:02

          If I buy things from auction, that is my choice, and I accept that it may be a piece of shit. If I buy a phone, I buy it from a retailer, specifically with warranty.

          I'm well aware of consumer protections, and have used them in the appropriate situations.

          • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:12

            @brendanm: Well, if youre happy to ignore what you are legally entitled to and have the money to 'self warrant', good for you, go hard. But dont be putting down people for utilising the protections that the law entitles them to.

            • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 18:15

              @SirFaffer: Your reading comprehension is lacking. I don't think protections should exist when buying a vehicle as is where is from an auction.

              When buying from an auction, you should be paying far less than retail, specifically to "self-warrant", that's the whole idea of them

              • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:25
                +2

                @brendanm: But they do exist. How you personally feel about that is irrelevant. You can be sure the issue was addressed in court and those who feel as you do lost.

                Consumer protections are important and im glad that they exist.

                Hell, if you buy a phone on ebay and it arrived non working what would you do? Suck up the lost $500 or put in a claim with paypal? If its the latter ive got 3 phones to sell you.

                • brendanm on 23/05/2024 - 18:29

                  @SirFaffer: Consumer protections are important in the appropriate places. An as is where is car auction, for an unregistered car with no roadworthy, is not an appropriate place.

                  Hell, if you buy a phone on ebay and it arrived non working what would you do? Suck up the lost $500 or put in a claim with paypal? If its the latter ive got 3 phones to sell you.

                  I wouldn't buy a phone off eBay. However, the terms of what are not "as is where is". Two completely different things. A better analogy is going to someones house and buying a used phone. I would expect no warranty.

              • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:29
                +1

                @brendanm: Anyway, neither of us are going to change the others mind here… i think im right, you think you are right. I think we should leave it at that tbh.

  • Dollar General on 23/05/2024 - 16:48
    +1

    I purchased my car from a drug dealer. He has denied all responsibility to date

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 16:49
      +1

      But are the drugs of sufficient quality to offset any vehicle related issues?

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:30

      Hello? Im looking for a new plug. Dont leave me hanging.

  • mapax on 23/05/2024 - 17:07
    +1

    When did this start in QLD? Wondering if it’s why there where so many ex-qld vehicles at the auctions in Vic a couple of years back.

    • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:22

      Few years ago things changed, if i recall.

      Beforehand it was only for cars under 10yo and 160,000km and didnt apply to chattel auctioneers.

      Im sure it has factored into used older car prices rising and staying higher post covid. But, that also means those on lower incomes have SOME protection against being lumped with a lemon.

    • spackbace on 23/05/2024 - 17:29

      Consumer protections for used car buyers increased from 1 September 2019.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:31
        +1

        That sounds right. :)

        Known as the 'lemon laws' from memory.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 25/05/2024 - 15:47

          Yeah that name rings a bell. Must have got some media coverage at the time.

  • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 17:14
    +1

    Anyway, why has this turned into a debate anout my own personal situation? Are you all angry from a shit day at work and looking for someone to take it out on?

    The simple fact is, if you have a warranty you are entitled by law to get things fixed under it. That is your LEGAL RIGHT. Dont let them bullshit their way out of it.

    HTH just one person…. in fact, if anyone in qld is having issues with a statutory warranty youre welcome to message me. Im not a lawyer, but i might be able to help.

    • Muzeeb on 23/05/2024 - 17:33
      +4

      It's just the way it rolls around here.

      You dangled the carrot and a lot want a bite of it.

      • SirFaffer on 23/05/2024 - 18:01
        +2

        Lol, seems so… lots of unhappy people taking their shitty lives out on some rando on the internet.

        • SpainKing on 28/05/2024 - 13:21

          Just be happy Protractor was penalty boxed, that user was unhinged and made the forums their own playground of negativity

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