Merchants Not Disclosing EFT Surcharges - What Do Others Think?

Natt on 16/06/2024 - 14:01
Last edited 16/06/2024 - 14:05

Don't really want to be the 'old man that yells at clouds'. I am pretty unfussed with a business deciding how they want to get paid and how much extra it will cost me to do that. If I don't like it then I vote with my feet.

But I want to know and have that choice. Upfront, rather than deciding not to stress out a retail work who has zero ability to change it.

Putting it on a sticker in teeny writing on the EFT machine doesn't do the job either. Especially after I have ordered, have the goodies and you JUST handed the machine to me. Cafes/food business are terrible for this. Is it hard to put it on the menu/website? Just like a public holiday surcharge?

And if I have no choice but to pay that surcharge, stop displaying the 'base price'. Its not $20 if there is no way I can actually just give you $20 and make it mine.

I totally get it, costs for businesses are increasing. 'User pays' is legit. I know the legal framework, I know that business shouldn't be charging the same surcharge for debit vs credit (although that's a more complicated issue).

So I guess, I am asking others to be aware and see what they think?

Is it a case of hey its just a little bit, not worth stressing about. Or do you tackle it? Or do you carry cash more that you did?

If our bosses docked our 'after tax' pay by 1.5% we would be quite upset. And it does add up. Sometimes its more than that too.

Financial

Comments

  • godofpizza on 16/06/2024 - 18:32

    tried to buy a used car for 15k using eft. They're didn't want to wear the cost, so ended up transferring funds in their office and getting an IOU note home with the car.

    • Agret on 17/06/2024 - 10:22
      +1

      I'm surprised eft allows a transaction that high. For that type of purchase you are best to go to a bank and request a bank cheque. This is where you prepay the bank for a cheque that is issued from them not you so it can't be cancelled or bounce. It's as good as cash.

      • godofpizza on 17/06/2024 - 14:29

        i was trying save on purchasing a bank cheque and offered to pay 15 x $1000 amount on their etpos machine.

        • gromit on 17/06/2024 - 14:50
          +6

          So trying to save $10-$20 by imposing a heap of fees on them for 15 EFTPos transactions?

          • godofpizza on 17/06/2024 - 21:37

            @gromit: the thing was that a few days before picking up the car, i had called up and asked if it was ok to pay via card. On the people handling the handover didn't want to accept it.

            Hence i just transfer the money via bank transfer, and they sent an invoice with zero balance once the money had gone thru.

        • Agret on 17/06/2024 - 14:51

          I guess if you agree to pay them $15100 instead of $15000 they might let you do that for the inconvenience & fees factor. Your bank might block it halfway through for being suspicious activity on the card. There's still the risk of you doing charge back on the card too so they would probably make you wait a few days for the transactions to fully clear before they let you take the car.

  • GordonD on 16/06/2024 - 18:35
    +3

    A store I use regularly charges me the specified amount if I use my debit card, no surcharge, but gives me 5% off for cash if its over $60. They say its to incentivise customers to use cash to save the business paying EFTPOS costs. But I think we all know what they are doing. There's a record they can't hide of card transactions, but none for cash that goes into the till. So they can decide how much of that gets officially recorded. And taxed.

    • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 19:36

      At least in this way, you have the option to pay less rather than be shocked that your bill is more than what you saw on the menu. Americans can deal with adding up sales tax and tips.

      • Grunntt on 17/06/2024 - 09:36
        +3

        Americans can deal with adding up sales tax and tips.

        Please don't start using the American system as a positive example.

        • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:08

          How is it a positive example?

    • AustriaBargain on 16/06/2024 - 19:37
      +1

      Meanwhile I bought something for $50 with a $50 note from Target and had to use my card to buy a 15 cent bag to carry it. And yeah restaurants are famous for wanting cash to not declare. That would increase the margins by a lot!

      • bamzero on 17/06/2024 - 10:33

        Kind of reminds me of back when the change was first introduced, I bought something from my local bottle-o.

        Paid with Amex, then girl behind the counter realises and says oh there's a fee for Amex (but not others), you need to pay this much extra…

        I say you need to display that, I would have paid with a different card. She looks around at the counter, finds the sign and turns it around so we can actually see it.

        Couldn't be bothered arguing, said fine and paid the fee with Mastercard.

    • hasher22 on 16/06/2024 - 20:48
      +4

      I rather give cash to a small business and if they dodge tax, so be it. Sole traders and small businesses already have high overheads to manage…

      • askbargain on 16/06/2024 - 21:02
        -4

        you mean exploit their employees

        • hasher22 on 16/06/2024 - 21:16
          +5

          yet medium, large and corporations exploit their employees too… you imply only small businesses "exploit" their employees….

          Please…. wake the eff up. Downvoted me cause you're offended

    • Brianqpr on 18/06/2024 - 14:50

      Which is exactly why you see all these "cash is king" comments whenever this subject comes up. The tax evasion gravy train is at risk.

  • X200T on 16/06/2024 - 21:16
    +2

    And EFTPOS suppose to be less fees but alot of business just charge flat card fees as VISA/Mastercard
    Yes, looks like we need to go back old cash days

    • askbargain on 18/06/2024 - 18:09
      -1

      Square charges the same fee. Blame them.

    • viper8548 on 19/06/2024 - 03:25

      CBA terminals also charges a flat fee regardless of credit or debit card

  • gyrex on 17/06/2024 - 08:35
    +15

    I wish the ACCC would revert back to the old system where the cost of the transaction is borne by the merchant and they have the option to build the transaction cost is into their price. Being slugged these extra fees on top give me USA state taxes and tipping fee vibes.

    • Poor Ass on 17/06/2024 - 11:53

      agreed…. it's almost like a compulsory tip these surcharges but if they made costs inclusive people would be happier

    • Molebag on 19/06/2024 - 21:40

      The system is a mess. The problem is that the fees for transactions depend on the charge type. What customers use isnt known (for us at least) until afther theyve paid. Sometimes theyll paywaylve their credit card, sometimes their debit card, sometimes their savings card, sometimes afterpay, etc etc etc. So what cost do you build into your price. Sure, there's ways of working it out like Aldi do, but their card payment system isnt typically what you get as a merchant.

  • KaTst3R on 17/06/2024 - 09:45
    +5

    I love places which gives you a small discount for cash payments. Win win.

  • bamzero on 17/06/2024 - 10:15

    Agreed. They should revert the change to allow charging of processing fees. (How do we go about voicing this to government? Surely there are enough of us)

    It's a running cost, factor it in. It's not like most people don't pay with cards these days anyway.

    S#!ts me even more when they are charging top dollar and still adding on the fees.

    And if I have no choice but to pay that surcharge, stop displaying the 'base price'.

    If this is actually the case and you don't have the option to pay cash or some way without a (lower) fee, then legally they can't display that price.

    • Natt on 17/06/2024 - 13:50

      Definitely agree, but like most things when it comes to enforcement it depends on how active/responsive the regulator is.

  • lint on 17/06/2024 - 10:24
    +6

    Given the majority of retail transactions are now cashless, it really is time laws are passed so retailers cannot pass transaction fees onto customers. It's a de facto hidden cost to consumers at this point.

    • CalmLemons on 17/06/2024 - 19:12
      -3

      You cannot force businesses to absorb costs they do not control.

      Most SME have little bargaining power when it comes to these fees are pay 2-4x the fees of what major chains do.

      The consumer can always pay with cash. It's legal tender until there is a referendum and it is voted not legal tender.

      If the business only accepts card - then I believe it is fair for the consumer not to pay the surcharge.

      • lint on 18/06/2024 - 10:01

        You know in the EU and UK (and many other places) businesses aren't allowed to pass on transaction costs to consumers, right? So how are they able to do it if it's apparently so hard for businesses to account for?

        It's not a cost they can't control as much as electricity isn't an input cost they can't control.

        We already have pretty strong laws in place that make component pricing illegal - the price the customer sees is the final price they pay. So why then is there an exception carved out for transaction fees?

        Maybe it was reasonable when 80% of customers paid by cash, but when 80% of customers pay by card, it really should be included in their displayed price.

        • CalmLemons on 18/06/2024 - 13:37
          -5

          There is a reason why the EU/UK are in an eternal recession, such silly restrictions on businesses is why it is so hard to do business there.

          I agree, it should be included in the price to make it easier, government should stimupate an additional compulsory surcharge on all prices like in america, just add 2% to the final bill. Don't include the 10% the way GST is done because the business ends up paying for that.

  • CL123 on 17/06/2024 - 10:55
    +3

    I hate it and think if there are any fees on any transaction the merchant should advise verbally as you can never even find the signs let alone read them. I had this happen to me at a Dr's office. It was a long consult so the fee was expensive so I paid with cc and thought nothing of it until I got home and saw the charge on the invoice. It was over $6.
    I rang the centre and they said all cc get charged and apparently they had a piddly little sign on the other side of the counter !! No where near where you pay.

    I complained and they said you can avoid the fee by debiting your account instead so next time I went I gave them my debit card to take the cost directly out of my account. Again when I got home I see they had charged me a fee !! This time I think it was around $4. I was peed off and rang to find out what had happened. It turned out that my new debit card has a chip (I didn't even know this) and the receptionist had not asked if I wanted her to use it or swipe and me put in my code. Apparently if you swipe instead of tap there is no fee. Same card, cash coming out of same account, different 'method' of using that card for payment makes the difference.
    I am still so annoyed about this so now I try to remember to ask if there are any fees before I decide which way to pay. This responsibility should not be on us but on the retailer taking the extra charge, I am sure the person taking payment probably doesn't care and most customers probably don't either but being a tight arse OzBargainer, I definitely do and I feel we should be made aware that item/s are costing more depending on how we pay and given an option to change that.
    You can probably tell you touched a nerve with me on this this subject. LOL. :-)

    • Poor Ass on 17/06/2024 - 11:54

      trigger successful :)

  • holdenmg on 17/06/2024 - 11:59
    +1

    Offer to buy the Coffee using your Card and offer to pay the Surcharge in Cash.

    (Bonus points if you tender 1c, 2c and 5c coins).

  • firestint on 17/06/2024 - 12:58
    +1

    So many Asian countries have QR code based digital wallet and here in Australia we're stuck with either paying with card and get hit with transaction fees, or paying with cash and having to keep those coins which is an inconvenience.

  • ParkingFine23 on 17/06/2024 - 13:50
    +3

    The Bavarian is a surcharge monster. Have a look at the surcharges at the bottom of the menu: https://www.reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/12sm1ip/the_bavaria…

    No wonder so many of their locations have closed. People do vote with their feet. If the customer needs an Excel spreadsheet to work out how much something is going to cost because the surcharges are so complicated, they won't return.

    • browser on 17/06/2024 - 14:27

      I wonder what is their justification for 5% service fees from Monday to Saturday?

      If a fee is applied around the clock, shouldn't it be built into the cost of food?

      When will they start introducing energy fees?

      • lint on 18/06/2024 - 10:06
        +1

        They're just using the loophole that restaurants are allowed to add a surcharge on certain days of the week in order to not display their true pricing on their menus.

        But yes, vote with your feet and don't go to The Bavarian or any of their sister chains. It's a gross practice that we shouldn't tolerate.

    • bamzero on 17/06/2024 - 14:31
      +2

      Just charging a 5% service fee is enough for me to walk out.

      Looking at their current menu tho seems they got rid of that one. Instead card fees have gone from 1 to 1.5% for credit and 0.3 to 0.5% for debit/EFTPOS to 1.7 to 2.7% for all.

      Tell me they aren't milking the fees. No way a group as big as them is paying that high a processing fee.

    • McFly on 17/06/2024 - 17:51
      +3

      That's illegal.
      They are the wurst restaurant.

      • CurlCurl on 17/06/2024 - 18:31

        That's illegal.

        Nope. It's perfectly legal as they are upfront about as it's in writing for customers to see.

        • McFly on 17/06/2024 - 22:52

          No. It's illegal.

          • CurlCurl on 18/06/2024 - 10:41

            @McFly:

            No. It's illegal.

            Ok. If you say so.

            • McFly on 18/06/2024 - 11:30

              @CurlCurl: Yep, I just made it up.
              I didn't look at easily accessible official information.

    • megaclix on 18/06/2024 - 13:54
      +2

      I've not purchased from the Bavarian since I became aware of their surcharge around 18 months ago. Its a pity the general public are weak and put up with their garbage, both in terms of their surcharge, and overpriced salty food and beer. I will give a cheer one day when this company goes bust.

  • Al09 on 17/06/2024 - 15:43

    I reckon not putting up the sign for weekend surcharge and public holidays are worse.

    Specially after you pay and realized…

    • McFly on 17/06/2024 - 17:52

      Also illegal.

      • lint on 18/06/2024 - 10:11
        +1

        Dopa does this.

        They have self serve ordering screens, but nowhere are there signs saying they have a 10% surcharge on Sundays. Their ordering screens know to add it on… at the very end when you pay.

        You'd think if you have ordering screens, they can dynamically display the correct price including surcharge if you can't be bothered to put out signs saying so, but nope.

        I called them out on it my Google review but they replied and claimed they did have signs displaying 10% surcharge, which was clearly BS. I haven't eaten there since but I walk past them regularly and still not a single sign saying 10% surcharge on Sundays.

  • Al09 on 17/06/2024 - 15:47

    *realised. ,..

  • McFly on 17/06/2024 - 17:55

    But I want to know and have that choice. Upfront

    That's exactly what the law says.

    And if I have no choice but to pay that surcharge, stop displaying the 'base price'.

    Also the law, although the base price is allowed to be shown but can not be more prominent.

  • Nebargains on 18/06/2024 - 00:06
    -2

    I honestly don't care about these surcharges. It is a convenience tax and even if I didn't know about the surcharge it probably wouldn't stop me making the purchase in the first place. The alternative is I carry cash around just in case I want to save a few cents.

  • mrvaluepack on 18/06/2024 - 07:26

    I love using tap and pay with my HSBC. 2% off for me, so im still ahead if they charge 1.5% compared to cash.

  • meowbert on 18/06/2024 - 08:57
    +1

    Hi OP, yes it's BS and you should use cash.

    Cash management is a cost already built in for the finance ecosystem (e.g. mint, banks, cash distributors, large business, etc). Business, large and small have integrated it into the cost of business, unlike payment processors which they consider an additional cost (right or wrong). Simple as.

    • Brianqpr on 18/06/2024 - 16:54

      Or you could see it as a small price to pay for the convenience of being able to tap to pay, not having to to go ATMs (many of which also charge fees), line up, carry cash around and anticipate how much you are likely to need.

      • meowbert on 18/06/2024 - 19:53

        Sure, if you like paying for something you didn't have to pay for before.

        • Brianqpr on 19/06/2024 - 14:46
          -1

          So you've never paid an ATM fee, or for petrol to get yourself to and from an ATM or bank? Not to mention the value of your time.

          The vendor is providing a service and convenience, why shouldn't we pay what is a very small price for that convenience?

          • meowbert on 20/06/2024 - 22:28
            -1

            @Brianqpr: We're talking about payments at shops, not those other things you mentioned. I've already told you why you shouldn't pay this "small" price for convenience in my first post, re-read that.

    • Molebag on 19/06/2024 - 21:43
      +2

      Except that banks just willy nilly decide to shutdown their branches so all of a sudden the 30 minute trip to the bank to deposit your cash takings takes an extra hour. Banks suck.

      • meowbert on 20/06/2024 - 22:28

        Yes they do suck

  • browser on 18/06/2024 - 09:21
    +2

    Paying by card is a convenience for both parties, not just the consumers. So it is unfair the customers are expected to bare the cost.

    There is a cost to business in handling cash, but of course small businesses are willing to ignore that cost due to "off the book flexibility" cash offers.

    Examples: having adequate changes, securely storing cash, miscounting and recounting, giving out incorrect changes, longer transaction times, lost sales if not accepting card payments. Card payments have none of those issues, surely the productivity gain can offset some if not all of the bank charges.

    There are automated cash registers to assist with cash payments, but they are not cheap to lease and require regular maintenance, and still require manual handling to load and unload.

    • Molebag on 19/06/2024 - 21:47

      Absolutely! We prefer to have card payments over cash for the reasons stated. But those against a cashless society dont quite get that angle. No, we dont charge surcharges on card users. Its just the cost of doing business for us.

      • CurlCurl on 20/06/2024 - 17:20

        We prefer to have card payments over cash for the reasons stated. But those against a cashless society dont quite get that angle

        Until the system goes down, then all hell breaks lose.

  • megaclix on 18/06/2024 - 09:48

    My local bakery has a sign up saying you get a 30c deduction per item for cash. They then add on a surcharge anyway when you pay by eftpos. So, a $4.50 loaf of bread becomes $4.87 via eftpos. The other local bakery just has a 50c surcharge for card transactions less then $5.

    This is annoying when it looks like eftpos fees are actually a lot less.

    So, this is either price gauging on fees, or tax dodge for cash.

    • lint on 18/06/2024 - 10:14

      I know a lot of places still do this, but it's supposed to be illegal to demand a fixed surcharge for card transactions. It must be a percentage of the price. It's just a pain to report businesses that do this and you don't even know if the ACCC will follow up on it.

      The solution? Again, make it illegal to pass transaction fees to consumers, period.

  • Brianqpr on 18/06/2024 - 14:52

    More angst on here about this than about businesses such as Colesworth jacking up their prices 25% in the last couple of years.

    What a time to be alive.

    • CurlCurl on 18/06/2024 - 19:53

      More angst on here about this than about businesses such as Colesworth jacking up their prices 25% in the last couple of years.

      Do you seriously think Coles and Woolworths jack up their prices for fun. Do you think the suppliers may have a hand in it by jacking up their prices to Coles?

  • apple2016 on 18/06/2024 - 16:18

    Merchants Not Disclosing EFT Surcharges

    Use eftpos next time. Not credit / debit. You wont have to pay extra!

  • ALBastru on 18/06/2024 - 16:24

    Here's how they fixed that problem in Europe:

    Traders in the EU are not allowed to charge you extra for using your credit or debit card. The only exceptions to this rule are American Express/Diners Club cards and business or corporate credit cards, where your employer is billed instead of you. If you use these cards, you may still be charged a fee but the fee can't be more than what it actually costs the trader to process your payment.

    Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri…

  • whatgift on 18/06/2024 - 21:03
    -2

    Now that most people are using cards, fees need to be included in the cost, just like processing cash is (and yes, there is costs in managing cash).

    Keeping cash as an option is NOT a solution, and people need to realise that its going away, and need to get with the times.

    • Assburg on 19/06/2024 - 00:56
      -1

      You're part of the problem. Businesses get to charge more because of the costs of dealing with their profits? Sure, bake it into the advertised price.

      Why not just get to the counter and pay the whole thing itemised out as patronage fee, service fee, clean-up fee, waste disposal fee, composting fee, staff well-being fee, indemnity insurance contribution, fee calculation fee, etc?

      Cash is king, I'm not paying an extra 1.5% tax a year.

  • BluebirdV on 18/06/2024 - 21:51
    -1

    Wouldn't this all go away if nearly everyone used cash?

  • Assburg on 19/06/2024 - 00:53
    +3

    Honestly, only way forward is to carry cash and pay with it anytime there's an EFTPOS fee.

    Why? Illegal to charge a "cash fee" but you get to sting them with the
    1. Additional labour cost of counting cash
    2. Additional labour cost of banking cash
    3. Additional risk of keeping cash in the till
    4. Risk of money being miscounted/stolen by staff

    EFTPOS was initially adopted by business because they knew it was more convenient for them to just do everything electronically, now it's widespread so they're trying to unload the cost onto us. Let them burn.

  • centrelink on 19/06/2024 - 01:30

    It is very annoying, who still uses cash these days? Just increase all products by $16 and y’all be fine

  • Dyl on 19/06/2024 - 05:57

    It's only against consumer law to charge more than what they pay, so if it's actually what they pay (if it's automatic it's more likely the case) it's usually allowed. A small sticker is enough.

    If it's a ridiculous fee (5-10% for example) it's unlikely they pay that and it's illegal under consumer law.

  • duketing on 19/06/2024 - 10:13

    It's the Government fault that allowed the RBA who is made up of people from businesses to allow surcharge.(conflict of interest much?) In Malaysia and europe, it is banned.

    The business would save money already not handling cash and the Bank just closing other avenues so they have the monopoly on the transactions and charge all the fees they want.

    https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislat…

  • JimB on 19/06/2024 - 10:50
    +1

    I started to carry Cash around again.

    @ 1.5%, l save at least $10 a week on surcharges.

    I went to the market the other day, cash only. some places accepted PayID.

  • ripesashimi on 19/06/2024 - 11:27

    I dont mind car surchage at all if some roast pork noodle continues to cost $14. Surely $14 with surcharge is cheaper than $19.

  • sauce2k on 19/06/2024 - 16:00

    some of the restaurants charging 2% ffs, I usually walk when I see this much or pay cash.

    I've stopped using my cards as much as I can as it really adds up

  • workingpoor20 on 19/06/2024 - 16:15
    +1

    I run a small business. Lots of people about the cost of handling cash etc blablabla here so businesses shouldn’t impose a EFTpos surcharge.

    They failed to realize that majority of the SME, especially cafe DO NOT suffer from rising cost of handling cash. They suffer from LIMITED revenue and no. Of customers.
    We can’t just increase the basket size and no. Of customers at our will. We have almost non-existing pricing power as well.

    We are likely to have idling staff and inflexible wages cost due to FW. Heck most restaurants are run by owner which make cost of handling cash practically equal to zero. Majority of the workers aren’t working at even 80% of the capacity, even their salary are the same. (Assume no wages theft). Most restaurants shouldn’t exist at all given the low return rate. The return rate for a cafe easily requires at least 200% a year based on the risk taken.

    Anyway, Limited revenue is the first constraint and the product margin is the 2nd constraint. Moving to EFTpos only and absorb the cost will NOT increase additional sales that can translate to more dollar net profit.

    The average no. of customer is usually limited. Can’t increase margin and basket size at will.
    Eftpos surcharge is the nexg most legible way to reduce cost.

  • ATTS on 19/06/2024 - 17:17

    I thought theres legislation the retailer are not allowed to charge credit card surcharge more than the cost of providing that service? The payment terminal thing

  • Scrooge McDeal on 21/06/2024 - 11:43

    There are easy solutions to the problem.
    It could be a legislation saying that for example.

    • A poster A4 size needs to be displayed at the front door of the shop. That poster needs to be visible at all times.
    • Also another poster visible at the counter where you pay.
    • Also on the menu, it should be highlighted that % surcharge applies when paying by card. Same rule should apply for online.

    These suggestions are pretty common sense in my opinion.
    I am not sure if these rules/legislation it's already in place.

    But if there is such legislation, there should be people responsible of checking premises for compliance. (Definitely don't inform premises that you are going to inspect)

  • gamemaster on 22/06/2024 - 14:17

    Now we have a case of both banks and businesses profiteering on electronic transactions.

    Personally it should be covered by the banks and the business imo. The banks get to harvest expenditure data and also profit with credit card interest rates. The business has less issues with dealing in cash and it also reduces the risk of employees theft etc. The government benefits as it reduces the black economy and forgone tax revenue.

    Unfortunately the government is always years too slow to react either deliberately or through incompetence.

    The main reason I use a CC is for reward points but now that these transaction fees are becoming excessive and greater than the value of reward points, it becomes enticing to revert to cash.

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