Road Rules Involving Cyclist Who Has to Give Way?

Ljuns on 18/02/2025 - 10:18

Good morning OzBargain, I seek the wisdom of community to make sure my understanding of road rules is correct.

Location is Perth, Roe St Westbound close to the train station.

I was riding my bicycle going downhill on the Roe St on the bike lane. I was fully aware that there's a truck (probably about that size) in front of me indicating turning left.

So the trajectory looks like this.

I was probably either at the truck's tail or just behind the truck. So I thought the truck would have to give way.

But I instinctively applied emergency brake as soon as I saw the truck's trajectory moved to left.

I shouted to the truck saying "watch your mirror man", to which he replied "yeah buddy, did you see my indicator? that's right!"

Now intuitively I thought the truck have to give way, but I also remember that when I drive my car on a two lane road and a car indicated to merge to my lane, I have to maintain my speed (to allow the merge to happen).

What do you guys think?

Poll Options

  • 62
    Cyclist (OP) have to give way
  • 311
    Truck has to give way
Automotive

Comments

        • juns on 20/02/2025 - 11:20

          If you watch the second half, the cyclist applied brake when the vehicle is already mid-turning. There was plenty of distance to stop gracefully.

          I applied hard brake as soon as I saw the truck's trajectory changed and I barely hit the truck. That seems to me it's way too close to pull the second half version of the video.

    • OhmyRyzen on 19/02/2025 - 13:14
      +1

      That's if the bicycle rider was in the same lane as the truck.

    • danwylie on 19/02/2025 - 13:51

      Victorian road rule 148(1) says
      A driver who is moving from one marked lane
      (whether or not the lane is ending) to another
      marked lane must give way to any vehicle
      travelling in the same direction as the driver in
      the marked lane to which the driver is moving

      • gutwagon on 20/02/2025 - 11:21

        Rule 141(2) contradicts that rule , none of these will help a dead cyclist ! The above video also shows 2 differing versions of the rule. The poll results show that the rules are not clear and the blame for this lies with the government.

        • danwylie on 20/02/2025 - 12:20

          I don't think they do contradict each other. If there was enough time and space for a safe lane change, there was enough time and space for the cyclist to give way to a vehicle turning left, if there wasn't there wasn't. Neither law specifies anything with regards to time/space/distance. The mistake comes in thinking that either rule gives the driver or rider the "right of way" in all circumstances, one rule doesn't override the other.

  • blorx on 19/02/2025 - 11:02

    I would just try to act defensively and decisively if I was in either position. Slow down and evaluate. Trucks have bad blind spots too.

    I had a similar situation but with a left turn and no bike lane. Car came from behind though (rather than you being behind) did a quick overtake and turned left in front of me with indicator on, leaving me little time ot brake and I skidded to a stop avoiding slamming into the car. Absolutely wild and scary but difficult to hear/feel/see that car approaching behind me.

    • juns on 19/02/2025 - 11:05

      Yes, that's the sensible move. The purpose of the question is mainly to know if I had actually been in the wrong in terms of road rules.

      • blorx on 19/02/2025 - 12:36

        Honestly don't know the letter of the law for this one - so that's my fall back, and kind of my point here. There's certainly specific rules people will have split opinion on regardless of law. Like this and like a 2 into 1 lane merge point with no dashed lines. So best to just be visible and considerate. Even when you find your answer - you may encounter this situation again against what is correct.

        • juns on 19/02/2025 - 13:00

          In my opinion, knowing the actual road rules provides a few benefits.

          1. I have better situational awareness of the cyclist around me and their expectation of the situation. (How much brake pressure to apply next time I saw a car indicating left about to cross cycle lane)
          2. If I know a driver did not follow the rule, I could stop and let them know for future reference.
          3. (This is for myself) I feel less guilty for shouting at the truck driver that day if it turns out that I wasn't wrong.
  • Nebargains on 19/02/2025 - 11:36

    How far ahead was the truck? I get that the consensus seems to be that the truck gives way but at a certain distance that seems completely impractical for everyone.

    • juns on 19/02/2025 - 11:38

      My memory is a bit vague, but it had to be very close hence I had to brake very hard to the point my wheels locked and I stopped and barely hitting the truck's side.

      If I were a bit further I would've had more chance of slowing down as soon as I notice the truck is not giving way.

    • OhmyRyzen on 19/02/2025 - 13:16
      +1

      Considering OP had to brake suddenly, the truck wouldn't have been far enough ahead to avoid failing to give way.

    • jrowls on 20/02/2025 - 17:01

      in any situation on the road, if your actions force someone else to stop doing what they're doing, you generally do not have the right of way.

      i'd rule in the truck's favour (morally) if they were genuinely quite far ahead and were able to get across the bike lane and where they were going without making the cyclist come to a stop. if not, the truck should simply back off a few km/h a bit earlier and let the bike zip through, then commence turning. it's not rocket science.

  • brad1-8tsi on 19/02/2025 - 12:30
    +1

    As a commuting cyclist I don't worry too much about the road rules. My main consideration is "will this cause a crash?". No point being in the right and in hospital.

  • OhmyRyzen on 19/02/2025 - 13:18
    +1

    You are 100% in the right, and your reaction was 100% warranted. The driver of the truck was required to give way to you.

    You also acted correctly by riding defensively and protecting yourself.

  • jrvb42 on 19/02/2025 - 18:37
    -1

    Regardless of the law, it seems to me there are two points that need stating:

    1. A large vehicle is less maneuverable. Common courtesy (if not common sense) demands that the truck should be given the right to complete the turn they indicated.
    2. In running over a cyclist, the truck would sustain little to no damage. The cyclist would sustain considerable "damage" to the point of not being able to either learn the life lesson here, or take legal action….. Because they'd be dead. Period.
      I'm not a truckie, and they don't always do the right thing, but steering a big rig is hard, especially when people are more worried about the law than getting along and letting others do their job.
  • Dabbler68 on 19/02/2025 - 21:17

    A truck that can not make a turn and stay in one lane MUST have "Do not overtake turning vehicle" signs (there are other conditions but this is the most obvious). There are other situations where a vehicle MAY have those signs. The sign entitles the truck to take two lanes to make the turn. Any vehicles (bikes) in the lane next to it must not overtake.

    On that basis I would say the cyclist is obligated to give way ….. unless there is some rule about a cycle lane having greater priority than a normal road lane, which would surprise me. I don't see why turning left into a driveway would make a difference.

    Imagine if that rule did not apply. In heavy traffice, a truck in the right/middle lane wantng to turn into a driveway would have to stop in that lane and wait for all the left lane traffic to pass. Not logical.

  • dealBuoy on 20/02/2025 - 00:21

    This has been put to bed by Vic Roads via detailed video.

  • Hangryuman on 20/02/2025 - 10:56

    basic life principle for survival - smaller gives way to bigger

    if you assume your little bicycle can take your assumed 'right of way' over a huge truck with limited visibility and much more difficult and time-consuming turning and braking arrangements, then you might just be dead right

    dead - right there.

    bicyclists, motorcyclists, and scooter riders I see zooming along as if everyone will just get out of their way, I call - temporary Australians …

  • whitepuma on 20/02/2025 - 14:53

    Legally: Truck has to give way
    Personal Safety: You should have given way

    Not that it will make it safer for you, but i recommend getting a camera. On both my motorbike and bicycle i always ride with a camera. I had 1 incident on my motorcycle where my camera helped with finding out who was at fault for an incident, resulting in the other guys insurance having to pay for everything. I've also had a couple of Crazy drivers try to run me off the road where i submitted footage to the police, and i can confirm that in 2 of those cases it got their licenses cancelled/penalized (so i like to think that made the road a little safer).

    However be mindful no amount of cameras will keep you safe in the event of an incident, it will only be useful post-incident.

    • jrowls on 20/02/2025 - 17:02
      +1

      what camera are you running on your bike(s)? i was looking earlier at one of the wee insta360 cameras to do double duty (for commuting, not adventures). what's your experience been like filming your rides?

      • whitepuma on 21/02/2025 - 06:32
        +1

        Now I'm using a GoPro hero 13.

        But I hear great things about the insta360.

        Whatever you get just make sure it does continuous recording and that you can get the right mounts for where you want to stick it.

        • jrowls on 21/02/2025 - 09:55

          Nice, thanks mate! How do you have yours mounted?

          • whitepuma on 21/02/2025 - 10:00
            +1

            @jrowls: front handlebar mounted for both bike and motorcycle. I should note that my motorcycle helmet has a camera built in, so i'm actually running 2 cameras on my motorcycle.

            However i have heard some people rear mount them looking backwards because their supposedly more likely to catch something

  • 2027 on 20/02/2025 - 19:59
    +1

    While ya’ll try and argue the finer points of your road rules, SA government have nicely clarified it for us:

    *When crossing or turning into a bicycle lane, drivers can only travel in the lane for 50 metres and must watch for and give way to bicycle riders.

  • belongsinforums on 20/02/2025 - 21:56

    The amount of people here who don't know simple road rules like giving way when turning or entering roads smh. Had a lady try to tell me that cars don't need to give way to pedestrians crossing on a slip lane

    • OhmyRyzen on 21/02/2025 - 10:22

      Do they not notice the dotted line that indicates they need to give way?

      • belongsinforums on 21/02/2025 - 12:07

        It's not just dotted lines. Any point on a slip lane. I was the driver btw

  • SetTheFaqUp on 20/02/2025 - 23:58

    Well. Glad that you are alive to do a post on this. You are right (right of way), but what's left matters more.

  • ratman on 21/02/2025 - 07:13

    You 10000% have right of way. Just another case of a d!ckhead in a car who hates cyclists for some unfathomable reason.

    Also love all the victim blaming going on. Truck driver was a nutcase who tried to kill you, but that's ok because he's a big man in a truck, and you should expect that to happen when you're on a little bike! Perfectly fine.

  • EspressoDan on 21/02/2025 - 10:18
    +1

    1. It's a lane. Cyclist had 'right of way' as truck was crossing a lane.

    2. As a cyclist, always assume every driver on the road had the same situational awareness and patience as a wasp in a jam jar.

  • EspressoDan on 21/02/2025 - 10:24
    -1

    Wow, a whole threat about a cycling issue and nobody has brought up Traffic Lights, cycling two-abreast and even the "should pay rego" threat is basically people explaining why it's such a stupid idea.

    Has…. has OzBargain gone cyclist friendly?

  • kabammi on 21/02/2025 - 11:36

    I'm squishy, the truck is metal, massive, and will turn me into jam. I respect that, and want to stay alive.

    So when I'm on a bike, I don't care about the giving way rules. Things that kill go first. Same when I'm a pedestrian.

    That said, I need room to ride in a straight line. When cars don't go around me (and they can cross a solid line to do so in Victoria now), that annoys me.. because I'm conscious that there's a traffic jam forming behind me, and people are getting frustrated by me, but it's only because the car directly behind won't go around.

  • try2bhelpful on 21/02/2025 - 12:16
    +1

    Truck should give way but always best to drive/ride defensively. I see some guys hooning down the bike lanes who haven’t got a hope in hell of stopping if a car, or pedestrian, crosses into the lane. It doesn’t matter who is in the wrong whilst you are hurtling over your handle bars.

    The reality is nobody has right of way, everyone needs to be driving/riding in a manner they can try to prevent an accident.

    The Truckee was an arsehole, but that isn’t unusual. Just glad you aren’t injured.

  • Muppet Detector on 23/02/2025 - 10:22

    IMO rules around this is irrelevant.

    Heavy vehicles should always give way/do whatever they can to dodge, cyclists, scooters, motor cycles, those 4 wheel scooters that old people get around on, wheelchairs and any other type of pedestrian whether they're using a designated place legally or not.

    Even extend this to cars smaller than you.

    Maybe you're in the right, but how do you sleep at night after watching the ambos scrape them off the road?how do you sleep at night hearing that heart wrenching scream as the victim gets spread over the road and all the onlookers watch and scream? How many nightmares does it take before you stop reliving this in your head at night? How many flash backs? How many panic attacks?

    Now imagine it is someone you know or love. Don't you wish the driver that hit them was in the right and managed to avoid hitting them?

    Not a free pass for all the small vehicles and pedestrians to forgo common courtesy to those with whom you do share the roads. Just think about what happens to you if you are a victim of an accident. When your insides are scraped all over the road, not many people ever come back from that.

    • b0son on 27/02/2025 - 09:42
      +1

      If the onus were entirely on the truck driver to avoid anything smaller than themselves, it would ultimately just encourage a proportion of drivers to put themselves in harms way. How many times have you seen a car wedged between a kerb and trailer because they either didnt notice the truck in the right lane making a left turn, or thought if they could squeeze down there, the truck had to give way? I think the danger lies in having different rules for different classes of vehicles. If we all operate on the same playing field (as much as possible, trucks being a major exception), then we all have the same expectations as to how the other will act. If a car driver must give way to a turning truck, it seems sensible that a cyclist should too.

  • Ughhh on 23/02/2025 - 10:32
    +1

    Being right doesn't mean you're being smart. No point being right if you're dead.
    Even though the truck has to give way, protect yourself first by not making assumptions with high risk, not riding next to a truck or staying in your blind spot.

    • klaw81 on 23/02/2025 - 17:31

      You're right - this is good advice about how to act.

      But the question was one of road rules - OP wanted to check his understanding of the law was correct.

  • hitworm on 24/02/2025 - 13:55
    +1

    I believe the truck has to give way, but as a cyclist that got hit by a car twice (they had to pay for the damage both times), I have now realized many car or truck drivers don't think the same way or just simply can't see bicycles
    It's better to slow down, give way to them, and stay safe

    • try2bhelpful on 24/02/2025 - 21:37

      Not giving the truck drivers too many excuses but cyclists can be unpredictable compared to car drivers. They are hard to see and can dart around stationary cars and ride between stationary cars. I think the answer is everyone drive/ride defensively.

  • ratoloko on 27/02/2025 - 16:18
    -1

    Cyclist aren't special (although they think otherwise), it's a truck with limited visibility and indicators on, what else did you expect the driver to do??
    Offer you some coffee???

    Australia is full of driver, riders who because they are hypothetically in the right, they keep going allowing the accident to happen to prove a point.
    You said it yourself, you saw the truck giving hints of the driver intention but yet, you ignored it because you have "the right".

    Continue riding like you are always right and soon you will become statistics, that's the naked truth.

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