Why was the 20% off horoscopes deal deleted? It seems like religious discrimination to me

Lmycosys on 11/05/2013 - 19:34
Last edited 11/05/2013 - 20:42 by 1 other user

I thought this was a site that was against discrimination and racial and religious hatred.
Why on earth would this be deleted? It seemd like a great deal to me, $20 for a full interpreted natal horoscope made in australia seems pretty damned cheap to me, did somebody go out and find a better deal?
I know that it isnt the religion of everybody here, and i know the owner is a christian, but surely we wouldnt be deleting 20%off at the christian bookshop, or the catholic bookshop, or a muslim or jewish equivalent?
Why are these guys being singled out?

Edit
Also wanted to point out one of the site T&Cs
"use the Service to upload, transmit or otherwise distribute any content that is unlawful, defamatory, harassing, abusive, fraudulent, obscene, contains viruses, or is otherwise objectionable as reasonably determined by OzBargain;"
Pretty sure calling somebody providing an agreed to service which is exactly as advertised is not a scam, and that calling them a scammer is pretty clear defamation.

I feel very betrayed by the mods in that a mob was allowed to descent on people purely because of their religion and the fact they offered a religious service, and that rather than stopping the slander and hatred, they instead called it spam. I do not share their exact religion, but a similar one, and it makes me very sad.

Mod: Removed trolling poll.

Site Discussion

closed Comments

  • c64 on 11/05/2013 - 19:37
    +20

    site that was against discrimination and racial and religious hatred.

    lol horoscopes have nothing to do with any of the above. you whole poll is based on a non sequitur

    i do believe ozbargain discriminates against spam though …

    while i've got your attention, can i interest you in buying some magic beans? very cheap at only $20 a handful :)

      • dealman on 12/05/2013 - 14:14

        Horoscopes are part of several religions. There are the Hindu forms, and the Gardnerian/Wiccan forms

        All Equally BS.

        • -.- on 12/05/2013 - 15:34
          +15

          Whilst I am a strong atheist at heart, I don't go around defaming other religions. People are free to believe what they wish to believe. It's just plain rude and disrespectful. Not to mention, one thing I don't like about SOME atheists is their air of arrogance. We all have different opinions and that's good because we're all individual, unique humans. So why don't we all play nice?

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 16:01
          -2

          Thank christ there is one person here who can see the point.
          Thank you so much.

    • mycosys on 11/05/2013 - 19:57
      -1

      How about some magic beads? They do? http://www.rosarybeads.com.au/rosary-beads

    • mycosys on 11/05/2013 - 19:59
      -1

      lots and lots of magic beans and beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_beads

      • c64 on 11/05/2013 - 23:06
        +6

        i'd be more than happy to sell you some of those magic beads as well

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 00:12
          -3

          If if you were doing them at a great price, having taken the time to hand make them to order for every order, I would likely give you a Pos, even thought they arent my thing. I Sure as heck wouldnt abuse somebody selling rosary beads or prayer beads or holy comumunion cards as a scammer, nor would I want to see it happen to them.

          Horoscopes are an important part of quite a few modern religions, Including Hunduism and many forms of Neo-Paganism - Despite being banned in Christianity and Laughed at (like all religious rituals) buy atheists. That doenst mean that People making them should be called scammers and spammers and turned into jokes because we believe something different. I find the concept of the eucharist pretty odd but i dont hassle Christians about it, or as noted, catholics about their rosary beads.

  • m0nkeycheese on 11/05/2013 - 19:45
    +6

    interpreted natal horoscope

    interpreted anal horoscope.

    Fixed

    • mycosys on 11/05/2013 - 19:54
      -3

      I dont believe in eating zombie flesh bread and drinking its blood wine to wash away sin, but i dont go putting down people just because they dedicate their lives to providing it.
      I dont believe st christopher medals help keep people safe, but i wouldnt neg a good deal on them.
      I dont believe the virgin mary appeared in Loreto, but i wont be negging great deals on trips there either.
      If a brilliant trip deal to the wailing wall was posted, I would think that was great for the jews that got to go, and If a trip for to mecca was offered, tailored specifically for pigrims, I would think it was great that they got to fulfill what they believe is an obligation to do at least once in their life

      It isnt my religion, but i am ready to respect that others believe in what I see as utter woo.
      It doesnt seem like a big deal to suggest that the deal shouldnt only be for christains, or jewish derived religions?

      • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 16:55
        -2

        You're misinformation does little to help you with your cause and credibility. It's consecrated bread and wine. It's prayer to St Christopher. The use of the Christian Lord's name in vain a few comments above.

        If you are going to reference other religions, don't make up what they're about.

        I have comments for all your comments but I don't want to take over this thread.

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 17:37
          +1

          oh - so you did get the point - it isnt nice when people speak badly about your faith, misinterpret it, villify others of your faith for keeping it. The difference is that your religion is the one dominates our society, the loudest voice, and nobody has abused you for having your faith.

          Why should we have to be called scammers and the like when we sell the articles of our faith?

          How would you feel if you posted about the things that matter to you above and were flooded with muslims or hindus or whoever else calling it all a scam?

          And to your last point, only the only people you should care about as to whether they follow your rules are others of your faith - Just because you cant say a word should not mean that I cant (that fact is even in the bible in amongst the letters - that you should only hold your bretheren to your rules, not expect the outsiders to follow them). Just because your religion calls astrology delils work doesnt mean mine does - in fact your religion calls everythign my religion believes evil and makes fun of us as often as possible, but we dont go out and taunt YOU about it in return.

        • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 18:23
          +1

          sorry i shouldve been clear. i didnt raise it because i cared, i raised it to say you should use reason rather than provocation.

        • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 18:27
          +1

          i would answer your questions here, but you havent answered my earlier query below as to what was the religion. then i might be able to consider if it was a scam. i missed the original post.

  • Moderatorneil on 11/05/2013 - 19:54

    I deleted it as I interpretted it as SPAM. The last deal received 8 negative votes. The now deleted one had 3 negative votes. These are not deals anyone wants to see. Claiming "discrimination and racial and religious hatred" is just ridiculous.

    And for the technical reason:

    Merchants should note that small reductions, excessive conditions, and other costs related to the deal will NOT be well received. Users will likely vote negative for your deals and moderators may BAN or restrict deals, reps, or sites that are not well received.

    • mycosys on 11/05/2013 - 20:18
      -1

      It clearly had nothing to do with the price - it is clear the people that gave it negative votes would have done so at any price, because it is a religious item from a religion they dont believe in.
      This seems pretty damned unfair to me.

      20% is not a small reduction, at least not anywhere I have been. People talk about a 20% increase as masssive.

      How big would their reduction have to be before you admitted it was just pure religious bigotry?

      Sure, they are not deals that are for everyone - which would bring us to the guidline
      "No Vote
      If the deal doesn't apply to you, you don't like the company, or you want to leave a warning for people about the business or deal, you can leave a comment and then not vote."
      and I cant find any rule or guideline here they have broken "http://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:deal_posting_guidelines"

      I did however find "Personal Attacks
      Abuse, name calling and malicious comments directed at a person or a group of people are unacceptable."
      and i cant see how calling people honestly selling religious articles (nobody suggested they wouldnt supply the artcile) scammers and worse is clearly malicious comments directed at a group of people - and at the same time putting down everyone else who shares their beliefs

      Sure - you saw a LOT of loud people from other religions (the religions these people serve here in australia are small compared to the religions who see it as sin and blasphemy) but there are certainly people here who DO want to see their horoscope, or their child's horoscope - just they tend to come from religions of peace, or even more so are scared to confront the mob

      Mob rule shouldnt run here. This is clear and unmitigated religious descrimination. IT was called a scam on principal because it was a horoscope - banned by christianity and laughed at by sceptics, sure, but that doesnt mean that we shouldnt repect the rights of those who do believe in them to buy and sell them, and it doesnt mean that the mods should ignore the mass of abuse piled on them by believers in other religions.

      What we saw there was plain out ugly abuse on purely religiious grounds. nothing more, nothign less

      • andy19363 on 12/05/2013 - 09:00
        +4

        Mob rule shouldnt run here.

        It never used to…. but unfortunately it does now

    • mycosys on 11/05/2013 - 20:19
      -8

      how on earth was the poll trolling???? it simply asked if people believed we should allow all religions, or just the ones the majority believe in.

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 10:13
      -1

      What we saw yesterday was people posting defamatory and derogatory statements. That is absolutely undeniable. It is also undeniable that those postings had nothing to do with price and everything to do with content, a content which is integral to many people's religions.

      Whether the deletion had anything to do with that or not - the site did nothing about what really, truely was an awful display of bigoted behavior by people who almost entirely dont even know what a horoscope is.

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 13:15
      -1

      and to be totally clear i never claimed "discrimination and racial and religious hatred", I said that i had thought that OzBargain was against all of these things - not that all of therm had happened - there is a SERIOUSLY HUGE difference

  • m0nkeycheese on 11/05/2013 - 20:33
    +16

    Sounds like you are just looking for an argument. Use the 'talk to a moderator' forum to sort out your issues. Otherwise you just look like a whinging fool..

      • pommm on 12/05/2013 - 00:36
        +1

        Soon you'll accuse OzBargain of being racist, sexist and anti-sematic.

        • pommm on 12/05/2013 - 12:55
          +16

          And there we go.

        • dealman on 12/05/2013 - 14:18
          +5

          OzBargain of being racist, sexist and anti-sematic.

          semantically speaking you meant to say anti-semitic

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:49
          -1

          You did note that in that case the mods DID deal with the racist ridicule and contempt shown in that thread, right? OzB members did something bad, and the mods reacted entirely appropriately.

          In this case people were villified, ridiculed and shown utter contempt, and no action was taken agianst the perpetrators.

        • dnnnnnnnnng on 12/05/2013 - 20:43
          +1

          anti-semantic? :)

        • retiredfeline on 12/05/2013 - 20:51
          +3

          Or maybe he had a bad experience trying to get into the Maldives. :)

          http://www.immigration.gov.mv/index.php/entry-to-maldives.ht…

          About 40% down the page. The page dates from 2008 and they don't seem to have bothered to correct it.

  • pommm on 12/05/2013 - 00:30
    +3

    What is this? I don't even…

  • pommm on 12/05/2013 - 00:35
    +10

    Horoscopes can be put in the same bin as monster cables.

    • deal88 on 12/05/2013 - 08:44
      +3

      Ha ha. I was thinking the same thing.

      But I never discriminate against the Monster Cable devoted!

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 10:26
      +3

      Honestly, I agree.

      But the fact is they are part of a LOT of people's religions. We can make all sort of excuses for the mob that descended on these people yesterday - but the fact is it was atheists and people of a religion that has tried (from their perspective) for 2 milennia to wipe their religion out ganing up on them in the same way christianity always did.
      April fools day is a lovely hangover where christians would make fun of the stupid pagans who started their year in april. Bressing up on Halloween is designed to make fun of them too.

      We cant change the past - but we dont need to behave the same way in our supposedly enlightened times -
      Surely we can be respectful of other people's religion - we dont need to pillory them or burn them at the stake anymore?

    • flingshot on 12/05/2013 - 14:42
      +13

      Say what you will about monster cables but they do at least perform an actual function!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/05/2013 - 01:34
    +7

    Hey, I got 20% off the latest snake oil, anybody interested?

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 11:51
      -3

      A better equivalent would be 20% off celebrant fees for a wedding - It is a charge for a time taken to perform religious service

      • Pandamony on 12/05/2013 - 17:16
        +3

        Celebrants aren't all religious, some perform secular ceremonies.

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 17:38

          I dont think that actually has any relevance to the debate, but it is of course true

  • ozy on 12/05/2013 - 08:45
    +2

    Sounds like the God's of Uranus are agitated.
    Good thing you know how to look into Uranus's future at 20% off to avoid the wrath of the mods kickin you in it.
    Next time try Google Adwords that'll help you spread the news like a Mormon.
    http://goo.gl/Eq1K7
    Peace be with you & Allahu Akbar.

  • Mikinoz on 12/05/2013 - 11:55
    +5

    And here i was thinking this would an interesting read, highly disappointed!

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 13:13
      +1

      sorry to have disappointed you :) do you have any opinion on the fact that somebody had their post deleted and cannot post another for a week because they posted a deal on a religious article?

      • Mikinoz on 12/05/2013 - 15:41
        +3

        I do, shut up! its not a religous issue. :)

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:57

          So it isnt science, it is entirely formed around people's faith and beleifs in the abilities of the position of planets viewed relative to earth (and the observed angles between them) to somehow affect one's personality and the personalities of other, further believing those same observed planets and angles deeply affect all the events in every society on the planet, and show whether people are romantically compatible - and that isnt religion??

          Sorry but if that isnt religious then just how based in faith does something have to be before it is? Pretty much every hindu marriage is preceeded by an astrological check of the couples compatibbility, They are traditional birth gifts among modern pagans, just how religious can you get?

        • Mikinoz on 12/05/2013 - 16:24
          +2

          I think you have made your point clear already. Did you get my point though?

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 17:41
          -1

          yep, pretty clear that you dont care about the rights of others and cannot see outside your little comfortable worldview.
          You dont even want to hear enythign that doesnt fit it.

  • gwho67 on 12/05/2013 - 13:41
    +5

    How a Horoscope is religious article?

    Horoscope shows the relative position of planets and the signs of the zodiac, as at the moment of a person's birth, used especially to predict events in a person's life. Horoscope reading is the prediction or advice for the future, based on such a diagram. I don't understand where the religion has come from? Planets get revolving in the sky, these heavenly bodies do not care which religion we belong to. They give us their effects regardless. Can you see Sun provides its heat to everyone on Earth regardless of their religion, colour or race.
    As a Human being I respect every religion and every belief on this planet Earth and personally I don't see Horoscope belong to any specific religion. Religion and Horoscopes are entirely two different aspects. Horoscope is a based on astrological science. Mixing Horoscopes with religion only shows lack of knowledge and complete ignorance.

    Mod: This is a ghost account for the rep in the deal mentioned above

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 14:21

      Sorry? the attributionm of qualities to the signs of the zodiac, the description of good and bad angles to have between them - that is all based on faith, it is all part of religion. The fact that there are western (Roman etc pagan) and Indian (Hindu) interpretations makes that all the clearer.

      Are you seriously trying to claim that a Horoscope interpreting the aspects of your personality based on the observable position of the sun and planets in relation to star patterns given their names and 'qualities' before the very concept of modern science evolved is anything other than religion? Sure it was part of the religion of great men in the dawn of science like Plato or Socrates or Archimedes, it was also part of the religion of the Ceasars, But I cant see how that can give it any credence as a science in the modern sense of the word. Sure it takes a lot of mathermatics, but interpreting those positions (and giving them any meaning at all) is religion.

    • Duff5000 on 12/05/2013 - 14:45
      +4

      "Mixing Horoscopes with science only shows lack of knowledge and complete ignorance."

      Fixed.

      :)

      • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:58
        -1

        So that has to make them religious. doesnt it.

  • DarrylD on 12/05/2013 - 13:43
    +11

    mycosys, the problem is that you are offering 20% off an unverifiable value. The worth of the original cost of the horoscope is purely at the discretion of the seller. For instance, you could say you regularly charge $400 for a consultation and offer 80% off. There is still no yardstick for the value of your offer except what you say it is. If there was a list of proscribed fees across Australia for such esoteric services, then you'd have a legitimate point of reference to offer a discount. You're arguments above seem to miss this point entirely.

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 14:30

      The point is more that people were calling them scammers and the like, and ridiculing them in just about any way they could. In a number of states there is even laws against behaving that way to people due to their religious beliefs - in tasmania
      ". Section 19 of our Anti-Discrimination Act 1998 (Tas) (the Act) makes it unlawful for a person, by a public act, to incite hatred towards, serious contempt for, or severe ridicule of, another person or group of persons on the ground of disability (and also race, sexual orientation, lawful sexual activity, or religious belief, affiliation or activity)." (link from www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/racial-vilification-law-…)

      Note the ridicule and contempt bits.

      There is also a definite verifiable value involved - the time of the human being who has to develop and interpret the chart. I can say it seemed like a bargain to me, being a former cunsumer of such things.

      The big problem is not one of the commenters (other than myself) gave a damn about the price, and whether it was a bargain for the product or not. They were too busy calling the posters 'scammers' and their product 'woo' and the like to care. Most of them didnt even have any idea what a horoscope was.

      • dnnnnnnnnng on 12/05/2013 - 21:01
        +4

        How about you have a read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man, then re-read what you posted here

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 22:06

          I directly answered you
          "There is also a definite verifiable value involved - the time of the human being who has to develop and interpret the chart. I can say it seemed like a bargain to me, being a former cunsumer of such things."
          If you need that further clarified there are indeed national standards for wages to be paid for various tasks if you want to go in that direction, and given a horoscope tends to take a couple of hours at leat in my experience, <$10 per hour seems like a bargain.

          I further pointed out that the value was not at issue - it was clear that there was no price at which the people involved in vilifying and ridiculing would have thought it was a good deal. It was a scam and a fraud etc to them on principal, no matter what amount of work the person had to put in to make it

    • Duff5000 on 12/05/2013 - 14:47
      +4

      I wouldnt pay $1 for a horoscope hence it isnt a deal.

      Edit, worth noting that if the deal was 20% off having someone pray for you it would also get downvoted and deleted regardless of the religion.

      I could do a deal for blessing peoples pets for $20 and say it is 80% off but we know where that would end up as well.

      • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:38

        hence the voting guidline of 'doesnt apply to you' would apply and you should just go past.

        the fact a deal doesnt apply to you doent make it 'not a deal'

        There is no reason to abuse somebody for providing a simple service, just because you dont believe in it. If rether than blessing pets, I perhaps a discount on wedding celebrant services might fare better - it is part of the dominant religion.

        • Duff5000 on 12/05/2013 - 22:57
          +1

          You have brought up wedding celebrants several times but i dont see the link. They don't have to be linked to any religion.

          One is a service that most married people use, one is something many (most?) people would call a scam.

  • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 14:12

    one more try

    A Business posts an offer to supply an agreed and standardised service, consistent with established standards accepted for that service, providing no claims other than they will provide that service and the results obtained from undertaking that service. They provide no warranties on the service, state it is for entertainment value, and state that they have had some level of positive feedback from previous purchasers of the service.
    Whether or not these charts are meaningful to an individual, there is and was no suggestion that they do not provide the charts that they say they do, or that they do not provide them in accordance with established standards.
    They are abused and called scammers among other things because of the service they provide, primarily a series of mathermatical calculations and chart production therefrom, meaningful only to those who profess certain religions. They are called scammers and trolled, told 'they should have predicted this' (despite being astrologers, not claiming to be psychics) and the like.

    Even outside any religious slant to the matter - this does not seem to be be in keeping with the letter or spirit of the rules of the site, or even the rules of common courtesy.

  • gk0r on 12/05/2013 - 14:53
    +2

    I think you meant to post this on 4chan. Clearly you hit the wrong button.

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:40
      -2

      I might have got more mature and considered responses, frankly

  • Almost Banned on 12/05/2013 - 15:17
    +1

    I know where you can get a Book of Mormon for free - should I post that as a bargain? ;-)

    Seriously, I agree that not liking horoscopes is no reason for a neg or a deleted deal - but I guess if enough users just aren't into that sorta stuff…

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 15:39

      Only if it isnt normally free - that is the rule I believe. if it is always free i think its supposed to go into the forums.

      The fact is that they were called scammers and all sorts of things. Not just negged and deleted. It was pretty ugly.

      • Moderatorneil on 12/05/2013 - 18:08

        Freebies are fine but things like say free hangers at Kmart or free straws at McDonalds are not really freebies.

        The thread is unpublished. Any published comments that you find violates our commenting guidelines should be reported using the report link. Any suspensions made to users are made in private.

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:58
          -1

          So there you go blaircam - feel free to post away if you feel like you want mormons out there, or the mor-curious. MASSIVE Extra points for finding the gold tablets the angel helped him find, used to decipher the text and then providing it in its original indigenous american tongue, that no indigenos aamerican ever heard of.

  • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 16:12
    +1

    Mycosys, which religion was offering the full interpreted natal horoscope in the deal?

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:54

      They are clearly neo-Pagan from what i can tell. Beyond that it would be hard to be specific (like trying to guess what type of christian)

  • SuperMrBlob on 12/05/2013 - 16:20
    -2

    IMHO, The site's good, but the moderators are WAAAY too controlling and have WAAAY too many rules. I completely support the OP.

  • jo3080 on 12/05/2013 - 16:41
    +7

    Despite my beliefs about horoscopes, there seems to be a lot of online bullying here. The administration of this site should show that they do not condone online bullying by issueing a temporary suspension of members who are found to say defamatory comments.
    Honestly, we're all adults here. If you see something you don't like, unless it's profoundly offensive, then ignore it and move on. And for the record, I do find online bullying profoundly offensive.

    • andy19363 on 12/05/2013 - 17:57
      +3

      Honestly, we're all adults here.

      I think not….

    • Moderatorneil on 12/05/2013 - 18:01

      Welcome to OzBargain. As this is your first comment, please see our commenting guidelines.

      The administration of this site should show that they do not condone online bullying by issueing a temporary suspension of members who are found to say defamatory comments.

      Personal attacks are removed and users suspended in accordance with our moderation guidelines.

      As for the rest of the comments and accusations on this thread, it's gone beyond a logical argument. I can only present facts. No one wins arguments on the Internet anyway.

      • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 22:17

        I really did hope we could reach some position on religious articles or services on OzB. I was hoping that it would be as simple as
        'If a post of items of a religious nature isnt your cup of tea, keep moving. Religious harassment, vilification and ridicule will not be tolerated, just as any other form of discrmination is not welcome here. In the case of items such as homeopathy or religious cures where health may be endangered by misuse, posting of applicable scientific evidence is both allowed and encouraged, but it is do be done so without language designed to enflame or ridicule'

        That is what i dearly hoped we could come up with here - not just a bunch of people callign other people names over their religions.

        The wording was supposed to be thought provoking, not just fight provoking.

      • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 22:41

        you seem to be insinuating here that maybe those who were vilifying and ridiculing the people selling those horoscopes recieved some form of discipline. I hope so, but I DEARLY with you had made the stand against that kind of bigotry, intolerance and defamation public.

        I dont understand why you cannot seem to see at all my position about religion - given the religious history, roots, and current use of Astrology. Certainly atheists dont use it lol.

        To be clear - I was not trying to allege that you made a decision yourself based on religious discrimination - I realise atm that i have not been clear enough about that. what I have been saying is that the decision was made due to the actions of a bunch of people who WERE discriminating on that basis - it is afterall something banned in christianity and derided by atheists, and really only used by hindus, buddists and neo-pagans akaik.

        I was amased with the viciousness with which they were attacked and firmly believed you would be there as you always are to gently but firmly right the worst of the wrongs, to remove the negs that were clearly based purely on the type of object, not the deal or provider, and to warn people that OzB is a civil place, a community, and we should act like one.

        I am heartened to think some action was taken, but i still feel seriously awful for the poor people who posted that bargain

  • c64 on 12/05/2013 - 17:46
    +2

    when's godwin's law going to kick in?

  • SpaceNinja on 12/05/2013 - 18:18
    +1

    This is not fair we should encourage bargains related to horoscopes and also: Satanism, black art, demon worship, demonianism, diabolism, mysticism, necromancy, sorcery, voodoo, witchcraft , witchery, wizardry.

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:33
      +3

      No reason to encourage them, no reason to abuse, ridicule or vilify them either.
      To be fair - it would be hard for a religion to be any more bloodied than the histories of Christianity and Islaam.

  • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 19:01
    +3

    Hi Mycosi, when you posted the deal, was it apparent that the horiscope was for entertainment purposes only, or otherwise. if otherwise, then it would be a scam.

    from horiscopezone's terms and conditions… (I believe this is the business your deal related to, from my google searching. yes, they call themselves a business not a religion).

    http://horoscopezone.com.au/information.php?info_id=1

    "(D) THE CONTENT AND SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, "

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:31

      I didnt post the deal - I was just a horrified bystander to the mob that crashed down upon them. I dont think it matters whether they posted that clause - horoscopes are made to widely agreed upon standards and calculation systems and it was a simple service they were posting. That clause is something that is used by a LOT of religious services btw, it avoids having to prove accuracy, which would of course defeat the point of faith. And it was pretty clearly available on their site.
      A lot like Adult toys are supplied as a novelty only - they arent supposed to be used.

      There is a previous post by them which i think was similar, although they put the code in the right place this time, and were treated MUCH more viciously this time.

      • grasstown on 12/05/2013 - 21:43
        +1

        Perhaps they should seek donations rather than fees

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:52
          -1

          why shoudlnt they charge for their time like everybody else? It isny like they are charging as much as a tradesperson or labourer or barely qualified tax agent

        • dnnnnnnnnng on 12/05/2013 - 21:54
          +1

          I refer you to the first comment on your OP…

  • altomic on 12/05/2013 - 19:20
    +3

    if we allow horoscopes then will we allow tomwaterhouse.com.au?

  • Marrk on 12/05/2013 - 20:44
    +4

    This whole thread is a storm in a teacup. If the deal had not been removed, it probably would have just received a bunch of down votes, and have been quickly forgotten. If you want to spend your hard earned money on horoscopes, then that is your prerogative. The majority of OzBargain users probably wouldn't consider any sort of paid horoscope to be a bargain though, no matter the discount.

    • berger on 12/05/2013 - 21:29
      +1

      Horoscopes are free all over the Internet. Borrow a herald sun and get your lucky numbers there.

      • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:47
        -1

        Berger:-
        There is a mazzive difference between the joke of a thing based puely on your sun sign you get in a newspaper and the INCREDIBLY complex thing that is a a Horoscope. It involves the measure ment of the relative positions of the sun, moon, all the planets, what sign was coming over the horizon and other things, along with the angles between all these things (which are believed to be just as meaningful as the positions). It is actually mind bogglingly complex and I have seen calculations indicating there are more variations available in the astrological system than in our genotype (i have not bothered to chech these in any depth).
        Certainly it is an extremely complex and and time consuming process to create one well.

        Mark - if it hadnt been removed you would still be able to see the REAL issue - the abuse, slander and villification piled upon these people for simply offereing a service at what seemed to be a pretty good price (assuming manual interpretation) - many people charge well over $100 for a horoscope done properly. And if a deal doesnt apply to you , the rule is you should not vote at all, so it is hard to see why there should have been many negs.

        Even the people pedalling powder to alkalise your body (ACTUAL charlatanism) and claiming all sorts of cures didnt get this kind of abuse, but then they offered a free sample.

        It may seem a storm in a teacup to you - but it looked rather like a bunch of keyboard warriors re-enacting a cronulla riot online from where I sat. Whether you believe in something or not, there is no reason to treat people that way

  • retiredfeline on 12/05/2013 - 21:34
    +2

    Maybe someday someone will hack one of those horoscope sites and mix up the forecasts for the signs. I bet nobody would even notice. :)

    • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 21:50
      -1

      please do - the sites that are charging and not doing the interpretation by hand dealy deserve it, tho anybody with the least familiarity with it would notice pretty quickly.
      The calculation of the planetary positions is no longer done by poring through an ephemeris for the positions of the planets at a given time, and you no longer need to use a bunch of geometric instruments to work out the angles, but putting what it all means together into an integrated whole the size of a novella is a job that should be done by a human being.

      • retiredfeline on 12/05/2013 - 21:55
        +1

        I think the whole horoscope thing is rubbish and this is not vilification. If one of my friends wants to believe in crystals, for example, that's his prerogative; he's still my friend and I'll treat him just the same as before, same as other humans.

        If you think a poster is calling others foul names, report that post. But expressing disbelief and skepticism is not vilification or discrimination.

        Edit: In my opinion you have gone about this in the wrong way. Instead of trying to defend the horoscope thing, you should have asked people to be civil to each other. That is something most people here can agree on.

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 22:27
          -1

          But calling a person offering a clearly spelled out service for a clear fee, with clear terms and even a sample provided a 'scammer' 'fraud' 'bunch of woo' saying 'you should have predicted this reaction' and the rest of it in a mob, by the dozen, clearly is discrimination, vilification, and humiliation (that is what happened, and that is why i posted). It would pretty clearly breach the law in some states.

          The fact that the action that appeared to have been taken was to delete the post did dont seem to be anything to make up for that behavior to the victims, nor help the victims at all.

          If the thread had contained a bunch of people saying "I believe horoscopes are a load of rubbish" and leaving it at that - hopefully being open minded not to down vote since the guidelines say not to sdownvote something because it doesnt apply to you, that would totally be fair enough. As I said before - it didnt. It was vile. And I feel it needs to be discussed.

        • retiredfeline on 12/05/2013 - 22:30
          +2

          Yes, but your action showed otherwise. You entitled this post … religious discrimination … As I said, wrong strategy.

        • mycosys on 12/05/2013 - 22:50
          -1

          I didnt see your edit when i replied. Maybe you are right - I just called what I saw.

          I was deeply disturbed by what I say - it was one of the worst instances of mob vilificatoin and ridicule I have seen in my decades on the internet, esp given regard to it simply being to a simple custom made article of faith, and a pretty cheap one at that. I mean it was only $20 - if it had'v been $200 I might have joined in calling it a scam (they arent worth that, tho seom do charge that).

          I had really hoped when i reported this awful behavior that they would show everyone publically that it wasnt ok to slander vilify and ridicule people like that. But instead it disappeared. Any easy way to deal with it, but it seems to make things even worse for the victims.

          Not sure what you mean by my actions saying otherwise tho

        • retiredfeline on 12/05/2013 - 22:55
          +5

          You chose to argue this as an attack on religion and embroiled yourself in controversy. You should have chosen to argue against incivility.

  • dre23y on 12/05/2013 - 23:37
    +2

    What rubbish…wasted few precious moments of my life.
    Go and take your rant elsewhere.
    This IS OzBargain.

  • Moderatorscotty on 12/05/2013 - 23:50

    As neil has already pointed out near the beginning of the thread, the deal was unpublished has nothing to do with horoscopes or religion. If it is the case, then why was the store's first deal still published? The first deal however has received -8 votes, and the second one, at the point of unpublishing, was at -3 votes and it does not look like it's going to go down well. We chose to unpublish the deal as it's clearly not something our community wants. Why keep it there so the store rep has to cope possibly more negative comments from the community?

    As of @mycosys, again we ask people to report comments that are against our terms of use and the moderators will evaluate those reports.

    There is really no point to keep the discussions here. Use TWAM if you have more issues.

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