Buying a piano for the kids

LOzWizard on 08/09/2013 - 22:03

I have 4 kids (2 primary school age, and 2 still toddlers) I'm thinking of getting piano lessons for the 2 older ones. After doing all the web browsing and talking to a sales person at the shop, I realise there are 3 options for me at the moment.

Option 1. Get a brand new upright piano. The Koehler & Campbell kc121 that the sales person recommended for beginners cost $5k, which she claims will last my kids until they finish Grade 8. It sounded really nice at the showroom, so I'm a bit tempted.

Option 2. Transfer a 30 year old Yamaha from my parents home. It was bought for me as a kid, but I hardly played on it. No idea about the current condition, since its been sitting there untouched and unloved for the past 30 years.. The cost of the removalist ($300) and the tuning ($200x2) should set me back at least $700 to get it up and running.

Option 3. Buy a digital piano. From the spec sheets I've read, it seems like the latest ones feel and sound like the real thing, and for an ";interactive learning experience" there's an integrated display will even show which note you've played wrong, and has games to make the practice fun for the kids. They never need to be tuned and the sounds has been digitally sampled from the sounds of finest grand pianos. The one I had in mind is the Roland HPi50 (http://www.roland.com/products/en/HPi-50/)

With the collective experience of OzBargainers, could you please advise me on which option I should choose?
Thank you.

Entertainment

Comments

  • MrAria on 08/09/2013 - 22:30
    -3

    To be totally honest, I wouldn't go for Option 1. You wouldn't want to drop $5k for something that your kids might not enjoy. The only time I would get an upright would be if I knew they would be playing it.

    I also wouldn't go for option 2, as the piano would probably be beyond repair. I'm not sure how much you know about pianos and what not, but a piano which hasn't been tuned in 30 years.. definitely not worth it.

    That said, I would definitely recommend option 3. Digital pianos require the least amount of maintenance, and its a lot more useful if your kids want to branch into other fields in music. You don't need something too expensive or too fancy like the one you linked, especially as early as this.

    • OzWizard on 08/09/2013 - 23:46

      I was inclining towards getting a digital piano to start off (with the bells and whistles to keep the kids interest going for a while), then by the time kid #3 and #4 starts learning in around 4 years time, then we'll get another piano, this time a real acoustic for the more advanced kids.

      In that way, they don't have to fight over practice session times. (Yeah fighting over who gets to practice on the piano?! Am I having wishful thinking?)

      • Mikeologos on 09/09/2013 - 23:03
        +1

        If you do go for a digital piano, my recommendation is to buy one with weighted keys. They are a tad more expensive, but they are much better in the long run. The added resistance of the keys helps to build up strength in individual fingers while playing.

        Try one next to a traditional keyboard, the keys on the keyboard will be far more spongy, while the weighted piano will be far easier to recognize when you have pressed the key.

        Also, if you end up getting a real piano down the line, being already adjusted to the weight of the keys will be a massive benefit. It takes months, even years of some people to adjust depending on how long they had learnt using a keyboard.

  • Wallyt99 on 08/09/2013 - 22:33
    +1

    Yeah, go the electric piano to start. Make sure it has weighted touch sensitive keys. Later on if they get serious get the furniture.

  • scotty on 08/09/2013 - 22:37
    +5

    We recently bought a new Kawai K3 for less than $6k. One of my girls went through grade 4 on an old Yamaha Clavinova (digital piano). HUGE difference in sound and key dynamic. I never learnt piano myself and initially I was hesitated in buying an acoustic — annual tuning cost, extra work looking after it, no fancy integrated features etc. However once I went and check out the "real thing" in show room, I realised how wrong I was :)

    Yeah. Don't just check the spec sheet and read the marketing material. The latest digital pianos are much better these days comparing to our old Yamaha, but I am not sure it can match a real piano. You also get piano teachers who insist on the kids to play on the real thing. Ask him/her first, as we got nagged by our daughter's teacher every now and then, thinking we are "too cheap" to buy a piano :)

    Option 2 would be the cheapest, and the older Yamaha might actually be made in Japan rather than China. Since it was hardly played so not much wear and tear. Shouldn't be too hard to have it tuned and fixed to its formal glory.

    • OzWizard on 08/09/2013 - 23:41

      How old is your Clavinova? I'd like to know just to compare and see if the "weighted keys" technology has improved since your purchase.

      • scotty on 09/09/2013 - 07:12

        We bought it second hand. CLP-120 so it's about 10 years old now. The keys are weighted, but the dynamic range is a bit lacking.

  • scrimshaw on 08/09/2013 - 22:53
    +7

    My parents bought me an upright for 3k when I was a kid.

    I ended up playing the violin instead.

  • sraymond on 08/09/2013 - 23:17

    I would get somebody to have a look at the piano at your parent's house and see if it's worth doing up. If so, it's probably the most sensible option.

    • Macgyver on 08/09/2013 - 23:26

      Yeah have a look at it. Maybe it has held up real well over the years.

      • OzWizard on 08/09/2013 - 23:43

        Would the appropriate person to check the old piano be me (the ignoramus), or a friend who can play the piano, or a qualified tuner?

        • Daabido on 09/09/2013 - 06:50
          +2

          A tuner. Your friend may be able to drive a piano but that doesn't make her qualified to look under the hood.

        • buzymum20 on 09/09/2013 - 10:38

          Yes, I would agree with Daabido, get a tuner to look at it. I bought a 2nd hand Yahama for 3K (the black shiny ones in immaculate condition) and the kids loved it. They now fight over who will take it to their house when they get one. Well worthwhile checking it out as it would be a good investment.

        • p1 ama on 10/09/2013 - 18:29

          Probably might be worth having your friend check it out before getting in a tuner, you wouldn't want to get a tuner in and waste money if it's too badly busted up.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/09/2013 - 23:19
    +7

    You can't plug headphones into options 1 & 2.

    Do you really want to listen to each and every practice session x 4 kids??

    I found it painful enough listening to MYSELF practice the piano!

    • OzWizard on 08/09/2013 - 23:40
      +1

      Yes! Thanks for your subtle point, I just realised it would be really painful to listen to x4 sessions of piano practice every day, esp in the initial stage where most of the tunes are probably something like Twinkle Twinkle Little Stars?

      A headphone is another merit for the digital piano.

  • sal78 on 08/09/2013 - 23:43
    +4

    i bought an upright piano brand new for $3.9k 2 yrs ago. i have 3 kids and im committed to ensuring that all 3 play the piano. my 8yo practices every day and my twins will be starting lessins next yr. for us, it was completely worth it. also fulfilled my own childhood dream if owning a piano. i can play the piano but i had to practice at my aunt's house so i only got to practice once a week.

    i'm glad that i was able to buy a piano for my own kids. piano lessons is not cheap either.. it's a big committment and investment of time and money over many years. if you are certain then i'd recommend getting an upright piano. the weighted keys are also important for strengthening their lil fingers.

    honestly, we love waking up to the sounds of my son practicing piano. we feel very blessed. teaching them young has been so worth it.. we recently discovered he has debeloped perfect pitch for piano i.e can play a song just by hearing it… he knows which note just by hearing it… pretty cool. initially he wasnt too keen but now he loves it. he plays all the time and we never make him.

  • CapnCal on 09/09/2013 - 08:27
    +3

    +1 for digital pianos. (Option 3)

    I bought a lovely little Kawai KDP80 for about $1100 in 2011, back when the Sydney Allans Music Pitt St. store was still a thing. (Mourned its passing! Then just did a quick scan whilst writing this, the site still lists the store? Did it re-open? Was it never truly closed? Has it been that long since I was actually IN the city?)

    Anyway, the action is great, the sound is terrific, and I put a fair bit of research into what would be the best sound/action/price combo. I've loved every minute I've played it, which admittedly has not been enough. Plus, if you're unsure about the longevity of your kids' interest, dropping anything from $3-6k on an upright can be daunting for a starter.

    Ability to plug in headphones can't be overstated, particularly for practice sessions. We all enjoy listening to someone play a magnificent concerto, but the practice to make it magnificent can be grating. Scales lose their auditory joy after the first listening, particularly if you live in an apartment block. (Curse you child with recorder!)

    The more expensive digitals that have the little screen with the learning tools are good, but the ones I tested did not really stand up to my final solution. The screens were a bit small, hard to navigate, not as tutorial-y as I would've liked. I ended up actually sitting a small LCD monitor from the PC on top of the piano, and connected the piano to the PC with a midi I/O to USB. Works a treat! Programs like http://www.synthesiagame.com/ take the input and allow you to slow it down, speed it up, go note by note, or even just do left hand or right hand! You just need a midi of the song you want to learn. (Plus, Synthesia is currently having a summer sale at 25% off, so that's very appropriate to OzBargain right there!) There are probably heaps more tutorial programs out there, but I've not put any research into it.

    Lengthy post, sorry, but hopefully there's some useful info in there.

  • _Bruce_ on 09/09/2013 - 08:38

    If you want a peice of furniture invest in a good piano. If you are not interested in this get a keyboard/digital, at least for a few years to see where things are going.

    You can get a tuner out to tune up the Yamaha and they might give you an idea on if the piano is salvagable. If it wasn't that great to begin with it is probably not worth anything now. If it was once a very good piano it will be worth restoring.

  • ridinkidonk on 09/09/2013 - 09:07

    Get this:

    http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP24-Digital-Home-Piano/dp/B0007…

    Can be had for $600 or less secondhand in wonderful condition (I know because I sold mine due to moving) and it is the best option for beginner to intermediate players so it will last a long time and sounds/feels excellent for the player.

  • onefromoz on 09/09/2013 - 10:05

    There is nothing like the real thing!
    I bought a Clavinova for $5200.00 - fiften years ago and still sounds as new- very very happy!

    Kids always compalined about "the plastic keys!" but:
    -has great Piano sound (plus I can connect it to my sound system and/or have headphones -good for others when they are practicing)
    -has many other sounds-functions (to keep the kids interested)
    -does not take up as much space
    -does not need tuning
    -learning mode -follow the keys- helps the learners
    …
    I would say go for option three and find a used one in good condition (what I should have done)
    When the kids are really up to it, it will be easier and a pleasure to spend the money for the real thing if you want to.

  • netpenthe on 09/09/2013 - 10:24

    get a 2nd hand nord piano off ebay

    they'll hold their value pretty well as bands like them if you decide to get rid of it in a few years

  • cannedhams on 09/09/2013 - 11:16
    +1

    I am making my kid learn classical guitar instead. Takes up a lot less space, and he seems more enthusiastic about it. If he doesn't become the next David Williamson at least it might help him get the girls.

  • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2013 - 12:30
    +3

    Some eclectic thoughts:

    I read recently no matter how similar manufacturers claim their digital pianos are - they are still different enough to cause problems for some people when they want to switch to acoustic. (And if you intend your children to go high in grades, you definitely will need to switch to acoustic at some stage. I believe higher grades require you test on an acoustic.)

    If I were trying out a piano just to see if my children had any aptitude for it, then I'd probably buy a second hand digital - expecting to resell it at some stage.

    When you move acoustic pianos they go out of tune. Even when sitting still they should be tuned regularly to keep them up to concert pitch. One that's been sitting around for years without being tuned MIGHT not be able to be brought back up to concert pitch. Or replacing strings, felts, hammers, etc. may cost so much that you could have spent a little more and just bought a new one.

    The way the piano renovators manage to sell second hand is, they take the piano away for nothing - and reno it in their spare time. In other words, they're paying for the materials but not their own labour - whereas we will.

    I spoke to a piano mover a few months ago that tuned pianos after moving them. He said if I wanted to buy second hand (ebay, etc.), he could check it out first before putting it on his truck. But that's not much use when you have to bid and pay for it first.

    Anyway, keep in mind if you don't move the piano first, you may be up for two fees - because the guy may want to be paid to check it out - then paid again to tune it. (The guy I spoke to charged a fee to check out a piano, but then took that fee back off if you said yes to tuning directly afterwards.)

    So you'd probably want to relocate it first and THEN get a tuning guy in to see if he can get it up to concert pitch. If he can't, give it away on gumtree (etc.) and buy whatever other option you decide.

    Even if he can get it to concert pitch, some faults can show up later on. For example, I've heard of micro-cracks in the string peg holes in the frame. The tuner guy tunes the piano but a short time later it goes out of tune again.

    If they can't tune to concert pitch, they can sometimes still tune the piano "to itself". In other words, they may think the frame can't take the tension if they tighten all the strings up to concert pitch. But they could compare the pitch of most of the strings, then tune the few strings that are way out, matching them to the majority. This of course means the piano is not at concert pitch which presents other problems I won't go into.

    It might be worth noting that a lot of guys that tune pianos, also rent them out. For a weekly fee you get a piano that's regularly tuned at no extra cost.

  • AlanHB on 09/09/2013 - 13:35
    +2

    Wow! OP do you have a burning desire to waste your money and floorspace? You're seriously considering spending $5k on something you don't even know whether your kids will like.

    Here's option 4. Buy a keyboard. They're portable, and can be packed away after, so you won't be loosing your floorspace. Your kids can use headphones so they won't annoy you whilst you watch TV. If your kid ever wants to play outside the house, they can take the keyboard with them. If you really want to pay that above amount of money, you can buy a Nord Stage 2, which is the exact same keyboard used by the keyboard player of Mumford and Sons when they play live.

    So good enough for Mumford and Sons, good enough for your daughters hey? But here's the thing - will this keyboard sound any better than a cheaper keyboard at this point in their learning?

    There's a strong possibility that your children will play for 3 months then move on. At this point you will be left with a large expensive thing in the corner collecting dust. My advice is buy a cheaper keyboard. There's many good ones out there, and they're a lot easier to sell due to them not taking up as much space. I appreciate that the more money you'll spend, the better the instrument is, but this is not a benefit that will show through at this point.

    • djones145 on 09/09/2013 - 15:14

      agree
      go option 5 (if you have tablet) download a keyboard app and see if they like it lolz

      kids and musical instruments and sports, rent first and confirm they like it!

      • OzWizard on 09/09/2013 - 16:03

        Djones145: I see you are on the extreme end of the frugal spectrum… Heehee

  • airzone on 09/09/2013 - 14:18

    I got a Casio Privia PX-150, for about $1100 (from Miranda in Sydney)… It's pretty good, includes a frame/stand, and 3 pedals. It's for a 4 year old, but I also play a bit too. It's not as fancy as some of the other digital units, but the focus is on the piano sound.

    That said, digital is the way to go. My Casio cops a hiding from the kid and it's pretty durable. And if it dies at 5 years or so, no big deal. She'd destroy the finish on an acoustic piano in an hour or so. Basically, close enough is good enough IMO :)

    • airzone on 09/09/2013 - 14:59

      I will just mention that the kid has had a series of toy pianos and keyboards, as well a toy guitar, recorder, and a toy drum kit. She can play a half dozen songs reasonably well by ear, and the only thing I taught her was which keys were do-rei-mi-fa-so.. Her mum's entire family is quite musically skilled (and she cleaned up in singing competitions), and I'm not too bad myself..

      I only mention this because we know the kid has enough musical aptitude to play bagpipes with a fart if we got her some… Otherwise without that, I wouldn't be sinking a grand on something that she may or may not like, and would instead go for a much cheaper keyboard :)

    • OzWizard on 09/09/2013 - 16:15

      Are kids really that destructive on a piano? How do they destroy the finish in a piano? Scratch it with her fingernails? Pretend that it's a guitar? Bash it with a baton?

      • airzone on 09/09/2013 - 16:33
        +1

        Hit it with toys, smear it with oil, sit on it (all of which will get her in trouble)… If your couch or TV cabinet is still pristine after having kids, then yours are very different to mine.

  • ZippyRoo on 09/09/2013 - 15:37

    I have a digital piano, I think it's the Privia as well but I don't remember the model. I'm not an expert piano player, I learnt casually in my twenties but I still like to play every now and then. My toddler is 21 months now and he knows what the digital piano is, and loves sitting on my lap and play tunes himself. I think the digital piano is a really good choice as the modern ones mimic the piano keys really well, and the sound is almost identical. You also don't have to pay extra to get someone to move it and tune it every time. I plan to start the little one on lessons soon and maybe I could pickup some skills during his lessons too, and if he does like it and become talented, then I'm thinking of getting him a baby grand or a grand during his teenage years.

  • OzWizard on 09/09/2013 - 16:13

    Wow. Thanks for all the input. I think I'll go with the digital piano (lower model, no bells and whistles), probably a reliable brand like Yamaha (scotty) or Kawai.(capncai) suggested.

    As for the 30 year old Yamaha, we might wait until the kids reach grade4 on the digital piano and require an accoustic piano, then we could reconsider about resurrecting it or buying a new one.

    Just an aside question: about gauging your child's level of interest/talent, how long would you force them to take lessons, practice and persevere before you allow them to call it quits? I understand that nobody enjoys a hobby when they are not good at it initially, be it tennis, golf or drawing. How long would you invest in your money (for the tuition), time and energy (for making them practice every day)? 3 months? 6 months? A year?

    What's your experience with your children who gave up eventually? Did they put up lots of resistance, or did they just refuse to practice, or did they just fail to progress?

    Not to be a defeatist, I believe we parents all start of with high lofty hopes and dreams for our children, but I would like to be shown the reality as well.

    • deek on 09/09/2013 - 18:48
      +1

      Hi. I teach piano, but only to two children of a workmate, so not entirely experienced with the lifespan of a kid's interest in piano.

      I think the trick is gauging the level of interest in the music. If they love the music, but dislike the work involved in achieving a good level of competency, then keep on pushing. Eventually, when they reach a level where they can play more complex and interesting works, they'll be more inclined to practice for themselves.

      You could also throw in a few different genres, like pop, rock, jazz, blues, ragtime, etc. Classical will teach them the best technique, but you'll want them to explore their own interest too.

      Good competency may take at least a few years, though that depends on the initial talent of the child, how old they are, and how well they practice. I'd say that 4th grade AMEB would be a good level.

      By the way, I own a digital piano (Roland RD-600). Bought it around 15 years ago. It still goes strong, and sounds great. If you're going to get a digital piano, get one with a good weighted system. The feel of pressing the keys is so important to developing your touch. Without that, your expression will suffer.

    • moocher on 10/09/2013 - 09:54
      +1

      Oops, missed this comment, looks like you've already decided to get a digital.

      about gauging your child's level of interest/talent, how long would you force them to take lessons, practice and persevere before you allow them to call it quits?

      Every child is different. I think you should be able to tell whether a child has any gift or interest in it after a couple of years. But kids being kids, practising always feels like a chore. They may tell you that they want to quit, but if you know they enjoy music in general, it may be worth persisting.

      As an example, I told my dad I wanted to quit after 5 years - I was 11. He threatened to put an axe through the piano he bought me if I quit - since we were not well off, I got the message that he wasn't too happy about that, so I continued :P Came to Sydney at 12, had a different piano teacher who was passionate about music and everything changed after that. Haven't looked back since.

    • AlanHB on 10/09/2013 - 11:53

      The average amount of time that a person will spend on an instrument before quitting is 3 months. The majority of people will quit learning an instrument as well, so I would buy on the expectation that you will only get 3 months out of it.

    • ryanranran on 31/10/2013 - 17:32

      Not a parent, but I was forced to learn piano for about 9 years until I finally enjoyed it. The turning point was when my technical skills were good enough to learn a wide range of stuff that interested me. In my experience, piano lessons and practice just become part of your life if you had to start young (I started in kindergarten).

  • louisalice on 09/09/2013 - 17:17

    In my five years old, my parents bought me a piano, but practice a few years to give up.

  • AMLagonda on 09/09/2013 - 18:02

    My parents had Pianos all my life… I never could play the thing lol (but my youngest brother is a musical genius).

    Why are people so against option 2?

    Too many younger people going straight away "go digital"….. sigh it wont make kids play any better.

    I see it as the only option as a Keyboard just isnt the same and 5k on a new one wow waste (we are on ozbargain)

    after a retune a old piano is just as good as a new one as often old ones were better built.

    • airzone on 10/09/2013 - 09:58

      Well yes, if you're going to get a free piano for only tuning and moving costs… But after 30 years of neglect, can it be made serviceable again economically? That's the real issue with option 2. The $700 in costs the OP quotes (which IMO will not be nearly enough) would get a good second hand digital, or pay a lot of the way for a new digital.

      But digital vs acoustic? It's not a matter of kids being able to play better… The other advantages are significant.

  • acky on 09/09/2013 - 19:12
    +1

    Get a melodica

  • kokita on 09/09/2013 - 19:37
    +2

    These are my suggestions for digital piano:

    Yamaha
    P85 = less than 1k
    S90XS

    Roland
    RD-300 <——- best value
    RD-700
    FP4

    Korg
    SV1
    Kronos

    NORD
    Nord Piano <—- Most recommended
    Nord Electro

    • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2013 - 10:22

      Do the Rolands have inbuilt speakers?

      • kokita on 16/09/2013 - 19:46

        RD series don't have inbuilt speakers. Most professional digital pianos don't have this feature.
        The good thing buying professional lines is for the resell value. Most of them are easy to sell with a really good selling price.

    • spacenoodle on 11/09/2013 - 01:07

      I'm for the Nord line. I'm currently tossing up between Nord Piano 2 or the Nord Stage 2.

      • The Gent on 19/09/2013 - 10:18

        Well met, Kinsmen.

  • Kjjd on 09/09/2013 - 20:02

    I may sound like a tiger mum but it took 2 years of nagging before I saw any sign of enjoyment. As he gained proficiency, he gained confidence and started to relax more and even started to enjoy it a little . However that's my son. He is usually unwilling to try anything new without coaxing or nagging. The deal is he will finish Grade 4 AMEB and then he can quit. Just from observing my siblings and friends , those who quit before that never ever play again while those who had progressed to Grade 4 had at least obtained sufficient skill to be able to pick up a piece of music and play for their own enjoyment.

    • scotty on 10/09/2013 - 00:09

      Hehe. My older one did AMEB grade 4 earlier in the year and trying to do grade 5 in November (a bit ambitious, I know). Getting her to practise every day has been quite a battlefield. The younger one doing grade 1 has been much more blissful :)

  • RickOnOzBargain on 09/09/2013 - 22:02

    I got my kids (10 and 6 years old) a Casio PX130.
    It seemed fine, sounded good. Progress in learning has been great.

    But talk is starting, that it is not enough like a real piano.
    So I started researching… That's a huge rabbit hole.
    I concluded Yamaha CVP609
    but am told by my wife… not good enough must be a real piano.
    Anyone out there, with some credentials, played a CVP609 and cares to comment?
    I think we are mainly talking key feel, pedal action, "richness" of sound.

    Problem being, we are both tone deaf and insensitive, so would not know the difference, even if there was any…
    But I am reckoning these days a good digital piano is as good as a decent acoustic piano, and all the rest is psychoacoustic clap trap. ie if you double blind tested some piano experts they wouldn't know which was which in any meaningful way.

    • antzz on 11/09/2013 - 12:36

      Most kid will still develop their tonal sensitivity and have sort of higher tolerance to higher frequency and thus can differentiate more. However, unless you want your kids to go to degree in music or perform in orchestra, there would be no difference what so ever. if you only want to increase the kids aptitude in music and improve their artistic brain function, better piano will not make any difference.

      The main difference in the Acoustic and digital piano lies in their speaker outout. Acoustic the better the piano has better timber and resonance while digital piano even the best one out there will still have digital feel to the sound

      Many people can tell the difference of digital vs acoustic in the blind test, but if you play similar song with similar technique, you can be sure the same people can enjoy both music

      Better sounding instrument does not guarantee better music. sometimes digital if played with good proficiency can provide better enjoyment due to the ability to mix different instrument sound together (piano/string etc).

      However, i dont agree with what you say that good digital piano is as good as decent acoustic piano. If you send your kids to degree in music or orchestra, you will need to buy atlease baby grand to have decent sound reproduce

  • Murrayb123 on 09/09/2013 - 23:19
    +4

    Hey, I'm a piano teacher I hope I can help! The best thing in my opinion would be to grab a $50-60 used keyboard, cheap as chips off gumtree . They are quite capable and will last them 6 months - 1 year. This will save you a lot of money in the long run if they decide they do not enjoy it or decide to pick up drums instead.

    For young beginners in the first year or so a lot of emphasis is placed on learning the notes, basic reading and quickly progressing through tunes to get familiar with music, none of these tasks require more than 66 keys. If they progress on into AMEB grades or get more serious with their music I would then recommend buying a proper 88 key weighted keyboard or accoustic piano but there is no point in potentially wasting your money so early on.

    Hope that helps

  • The Gent on 09/09/2013 - 23:52

    Check out Gumtree…I once saw a baby grand piano in the freebies section - practically mint condition, the woman just wanted to pass it down to someone who would appreciate it…Did not get there in time. :(

  • rong on 10/09/2013 - 07:48

    DO NOT EVER buy digital piano, totally waste of dollar. As to piano removal, I spent around 180 depend on the distance.

    My kid is 15 months I just bought a second hand upright KAWAI cost me $1600, try your luck from private sales. She really like "playing" it.

    • The Gent on 11/09/2013 - 03:13

      You spent $1600 on a 15 month-old child who, unless she is a genius, teaching herself calculus at the age of 3…will probably never become a professional pianist? At most perhaps a part-time teacher, that is, assuming she even wants to be a musician.

      Why?

      PS: please don't force her to be a pianist.

    • congo on 10/12/2018 - 18:02
      -1

      Kawai K3?

  • moocher on 10/09/2013 - 09:42
    +2

    I'm classically trained and have taught piano in a previous life so my views may be a bit purist. I would not recommend a digital piano as they are not able to reproduce the warmth in tone of a real piano or be as sensitive/responsive to the difference in the touch that is applied to the piano keys. You'd never see a classical piano recital or concert that uses a digital piano for that reason. I don't think I've seen any famous jazz pianists use them either.

    I'd definitely investigate option 2. Yamaha is a much better brand than Koehler & Campbell and has good resale value second hand. I'm not a piano technician so can't really advise on what to look for, but found this article - How to Detemine the Condition of you piano with pictures that may give you some hints. Most of the pictures are for grand pianos but there are some comments for the upright too. (nothing will beat a professional technician's appraisal of course).

    If you do decide to go for a new piano (Option 1), please try out a Kawai or Yamaha before you purchase something that the salesman recommends (presumably Gospel pianos were the ones who tried to sell you the Kohler and Campbell, since they are exclusive distributors in Australia?). Both Yamaha and Kawai are highly recommended by piano teachers.

    • sal78 on 11/09/2013 - 00:03

      we bought a Kohler and Campbell from Gospel.Not much more than a 2nd hand but has a 10 yr warranty. We had limited space so wanted a compact piano. The sound is beautiful. We moved house last year and only paid $120 to transport piano.

  • hangdog on 10/09/2013 - 11:18

    We bought a new-but-superseded Casio Privia PX-735 for our 6-year-old child back in January. It cost $900, has a 5-year warranty, and should last her for several years. An acoustic piano is better in many ways, of course, but decent digitals are a) cheaper than new acoustics; b) comparable in price to used acoustics when you add in the cost of moving an acoustic piano; c) take up very little space (we have a small house); d) don't require yearly tuning (another $150ish per year); e) can be used with headphones or at lower volume, to avoid disturbing other people in the house, such as a sleeping baby; f) depending on the model, can be transported relatively easily for special events or moving house.

    We also started her on one of the playing-based systems (Simply Music) instead of the traditional method of reading notes/playing scales. Seems to have made it more enjoyable for her, although she still needs coaxing to practise most days.

  • antzz on 10/09/2013 - 11:27

    Digital piano all the way. If you want upgrade buy baby grand piano. Unless you are musical genius or really really picky, even the newest casio is good enough for most kid to learn. Especially if you dont want to learn classical piano. Digital piano has several toys to play with, different sound and mix etc is good for the children to reproduce kid song.

    If you have little mozart, then you might as well buy baby grand for the true piano weight feeling sound etc. Normal upright is quite honest not provide enough upgrade for the cost/space/aesthetics drawbacks of it.

    For more classical sound of digital piano, try the Yamaha, buy somewhere around 1500 - 2000 marks, for more of a pop music, but casio, they should be under 1500 which is quite good. Gauge your child interest and save money, if they want to get degree in music you can pay for their grand piano.

  • Ughhh on 10/09/2013 - 12:11
    +2

    I don't think I would've had the same interest in piano if my parents got me a digital piano instead of a real piano.
    The experience is different.

    • sal78 on 11/09/2013 - 00:06

      my son's piano teacher teaches him on a baby grand!

  • ozbargin92 on 10/09/2013 - 13:18
    +3

    I have had three pianos in my home at point, a second hand belle upright, yamaha clavinova and a new yamaha upright U1. I can say with confidence that no matter how good the digital pianos are these days, their touch is no way near the right deal. Touch is very important in piano playing. Don't get your kids to start on a digital piano, they should only be considered if you live in apartment or do regular recordings. It will be very difficult for them to play the real ones when the time comes (e.g. 3 or 4 grade).
    My suggestion:
    Option 4: get a second hand upright, find one on gum tree or something. Or try to refurnish the yamaha from your parents.

  • OzWizard on 10/09/2013 - 14:23

    An update on my experience walking into a piano showroom. Upon walking into the store, I would first explain to them that i have 4 kids and I'm thinking of buying a piano for them to learn.

    First shop: The sales person's first question to me was, "Would you be looking at an upright or a grand piano? For beginners, I'd recommend this $4000 upright to begin with." Ahem… (And when I point out that I wasn't quite sure about their level of interest, the sales person encouraged me, "Well, why are you thinking of a defeat already before they even start the journey?")

    Second shop: The sales person's first question to me was, "Are you planning to have your kids take exams and such? Or just for enjoyment? Here, buy this $300 keyboard, that will be enough for the moment." Ahem… (And when I point out that perhaps I should buy somehting better for a longer term investment, the sales person was like, "It all cost money, don't spend so much initially." Sounds like he's on OzBargain too.)

    No wonder why I'm so confused.

    But both shop assistant were consistent on one point: "All the digital are the same. Don't bother buying an expensive digital one." Both of them recommended something at the $1000 range if I decide to choose a digital.

    Whose right?

    • airzone on 10/09/2013 - 15:00

      I'm sorry, but think about it for a minute… One shop is trying to sell you an expensive bit of kit up-front with a view to sell you something even more expensive in a few years, and the other is saying to start on something cheap first, and then upgrade if it's warranted. I know who I'd be buying off.

      Let me put it another way, you take your 18 year old kid to a car showroom when it's time to buy their first car. One tries to sell you a large 7 seat SUV - "in the future they might need 7 seats for a large family", the other offers a small hatch instead saying "this is fine for a learner, you can upgrade in a few years if necessary".

      If this is such a difficult decision for you at this point, then buy the full acoustic experience and don't look back - you'll regret it immediately if you don't. There really isn't anything to be confused about.

      BTW, I can play and I'd still recommend a digital… But then again, it's hard to fit a grand piano in a 2br unit not to mention affording it on a single salary. Thus my bias.

  • OzWizard on 10/09/2013 - 14:32
    +1

    No offence to all of your helpful input, but it seems to me that:

    those who recommend digital piano are usually the parents who cant play themselves,

    vs those who recommend real piano are usually the ones who can truly play (but their piano was bought by their parents years ago, so they don't realise their cost investment)

    I could only infer this because as a parent, i find the cost of buying a piano + tuition (on top of mortgage, groceries, school fees, etc), to be quite a hefty investment. But then again, on the other side of being a parent, we all want the BEST for our kids, dont we? Hence the piano dilemma.

    • _Bruce_ on 10/09/2013 - 14:42

      For the record I am a parent who plays (on a piano purchased by my grandparents many years ago) and suggest digital/keyboard.

      I think real pianos are great, but it is a big investment for a large block of wood taking up space in your house. It won't sound good until someone can play it anyway.

    • moocher on 10/09/2013 - 14:49

      Yes, it is expensive if you go for the real piano. However real pianos also have a good resale value if you go for a good brand like Yamaha or Kawai - the money is not 'lost' as such.

      However, if you do decide to go digital, go for one that has weighted keys, full keyboard (88 keys), and proper pedals that are attached to the body of the piano so that it won't be too different for your kids to transition to acoustic at a later stage.

      those who recommend real piano are usually the ones who can truly play (but their piano was bought by their parents years ago, so they don't realise their cost investment)

      First piano bought by parents, yes, but I had to buy my own piano eventually - forked out about $5k 15 years ago for a brand new Kawai CX 21H that was made in Japan.

      Just out of curiosity - have any of your kids shown any interest in piano playing, or is it just your desire for them to learn? It may be possible that they might prefer other instruments. It's a good idea to expose them to different types of music (heaps of videos on youtube) and see if they show any interest.

    • deek on 10/09/2013 - 15:31

      I am offended that you think I'm a parent! Oh, I can play fairly decently too; good enough to play Liszt's La Campanella. Or at least, I used to when I was practising somewhat more regularly.

      I play all my pieces on my Roland digital piano. I think it has a great feel, although it is a little lighter than a regular piano. Note, the Roland is a professional stage piano, and doesn't have built in speakers, so you need headphones or an external amplifier/speaker set. Something to keep in mind.

      To be sure, there's nothing that sounds and feels like a real piano. But then again, there's such a wide range of sound and feel between piano brands, that digital isn't as removed as some people believe.

      Different instruments on digital keyboards is fun … for the first week. Then you'll likely never hear from them again. Don't be wowed by the number of instruments that can be played. Just make sure that when you press down on the keys, you can feel some resistance to your press. Rest a fingertip lightly on a key, and push down. You have to feel a little weight behind the press.

      I personally think that a good digital piano is an excellent way to learn how to play, and can have a greater lifespan than just as a beginner's tool. At some stage, though, you'll definitely want your kids to get experience on a real piano. Maybe that's when you can introduce that Yamaha. It'll be like a mini-christmas for the kids, as they'll presumably have some ability by then, and will get to experience the feel of an amazing bit of mechanical wizardry. Look Ma, no electronics!

      If you do get a digital piano, you'll save on having to regularly tune the beast. They seem to hold their tune rather well.

    • scotty on 10/09/2013 - 16:27

      I'm a parent who can't play but after hearing my daughter doing it on both, acoustic seems to be a better choice provided you have the space.

      HOWEVER I think salesperson #2 has a point, which is what we did. Bought a 2nd hand Yamaha Clavinova for $700 off a friend who's moving overseas. It's good enough for my daughter to get through grade 4, and then invest on an upright when she wants to continue. We can probably still sell that old Yamaha without loosing much money, except daughter #2 is now playing it.

      Yeah,

      1. Get a digital piano for $700-$1000
      2. Play for a few years & get through some grades
      3. If kids are still interested to continue, buy an acoustic piano. Sell the old digital, or keep it for the siblings.
      4. If kids aren't interested at all, sell the old digital piano. Hopefully no great loss (except all the practising time).
    • hangdog on 10/09/2013 - 17:31

      I'm also a parent who plays (not well), and rather than move the old acoustic from the grandparents' house and then have it tuned, chose to buy a smaller, in-tune digital piano instead. The feel and sound of a decent 88-key hammer-action digital piano (as opposed to an unweighted keyboard) is IMHO close enough to that of an acoustic to provide a decent playing experience. At ~$1K, no, it won't be as good, but close enough for beginner-to-intermediate study. At some point, if my kid progresses that far, I expect we might get an acoustic. Or maybe a higher-end digital.

    • ridinkidonk on 10/09/2013 - 22:07
      +2

      My digital piano was bought for me when I was thirteen going through high school; I am twenty three now and went all the way through the AMEB exams with that same digital piano which was recommended to me by my piano teacher at the time who had forty years experience (she was old but damn could she play!)… Don't write them off so quickly.

      I had the chance to take an upright from my aunt and uncle which would have been great but my father wasn't interested in having it in the house. I did fine with what I had and if your kids will be interested and persistent with their music, whatever you get them they will be great too.

    • antzz on 11/09/2013 - 12:51

      i am a parent who can play several instrument and was trained in classical piano for most of my childhood. I have had several acoustic piano which is still now cost a fortune. My personal preference for my kids now will still be a better digital piano than an upright.

      To be honest, the weighted feel is quite different but the newest one out there already mimicked very similarly to be honest. IMHO, the weighted feel etc is overblown excuse to buy proper piano. It will take couple months to get use to the real feel but it does not make you play worse in the end.

      Digital Piano provide more enjoyment and easily transported. When there is party, church function and sleep over, they can easily bring their piano for duet/small band. You can not do that with upright/baby grand.

      Many parents push the kids to classical piano training and most often that not reduce the aptitude for the children. They should see piano play as something fun not something that needs training 3-4 hours a day repeating the same sonata. In the end, many classical trained pianist find it quite difficult to play pop song etc. if they have aptitude for classical song, very talented and want to practice a lot then we can talk about acoustic piano

  • Kjjd on 10/09/2013 - 15:26

    The piano school my son initially started with was fine with him starting on digital piano as they used that to teach their very junior kids as they use this programme where they play along with CDs I have since switched to a teacher who has more traditional methods of teaching and she would insist they use an acoustic piano. it might depends on who teaches your kids. After listening to my kids' piano teacher I'd recommend an acoustic. I think it is important in helping them get their technique right from the beginning.

    We did not have your dilemma as both my husband and I play and we bought a piano before the kids came along. Got it 2nd hand for about $2000 private sale. Another place to look at is the University Music Department. The do sell their pianos and replace them. I also looked at a piano seller who refurbishes old pianos for sale in WA.

    Personally, I would fork out the money first to get a tuner to assess your parents' piano as it may be be all right to play after tuning. Then factor in cost of transportation and retuning. As it hasn't been tuned in years, count on having to pay for a few tuning sessions that year, then annually I have had to have the tuner back in a few months as the piano was neglected as we recently moved it back from storage in our parents' place and didn't get it retuned until 2 years later.

  • gpsnomad on 10/09/2013 - 20:40

    Or you could consider a 21st century option:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/technology/personaltech/a-…

    Perhaps will arrive in Australia in time for the 22nd century! ;)

  • nikey2k27 on 10/09/2013 - 21:10

    option 2 if u have it check out first.

  • CheapCoffee on 11/09/2013 - 00:20

    Personally, I would go for an upright piano any day, if I am looking for an acoustic piano sound, it just simply plays better… I have never tried digital keyboards that costs more than $1000, but they just feel so terrible when you are giving it with a little more force than usual.

    If you look around, you can get really decent upright pianos for a very low price, and even if it doesn't have the "perfect" classical piano sound, it is just so much more enjoyable to play, and to me the enjoyability is so much more important than the "perfect" sound. And I believe that is even more important for the student who is learning.

  • Jase_ on 11/09/2013 - 12:33

    my girlfriend is a Piano teacher and generally really happy to help people out with this sort of stuff (students or not). She'll probably also give you a good deal if you were interested in getting your kids to take lessons from her. Her website / blog is below if you're interested.
    http://www.pianolessonswithrebecca.wordpress.com

  • jace88 on 11/09/2013 - 22:25

    I grew up playing piano but I hated it- doing daily practice of scales and pieces just to sit an exam which didn't mean anything. Unless you are sure your kids will use it (or you plan on forcing them!) I wouldn't be blowing that kind of coin. That being said now that I'm a lot older now (26), I do appreciate that I learnt a musical instrument and every now and then I visit my parents' house and play on the piano. It was also fun to play pop songs with music sheets I got off the net or by extracting them from midi files!

    ps. The weighted keys on the keyboard aren't bad- I tried one at my sister's house and it's a decent experience but has nothing on a real piano. It's a good starting point though to see if a real piano will be a worthwhile investment, and as someone else mentioned, the bells and whistles will keep kids entertained. Avoid the cheap portable keyboards though- highly unlikely to inspire someone to pursue an interest in it in my opinion.

  • atl068 on 12/09/2013 - 06:19

    Digital piano gets my vote. And do not write off the Casio Privia. It has far better sound and feel than other brands for the price. From reviews around the Web you will be spending upwards of 10k to get a Yamaha digital grand piano to get something as good or better than a cheap Casio Privia 150/350/850.

    YouTube and Google is your friend. You can type "Casio Privia review" in google or "Casio Privia" on YouTube to get lots of examples, including pianists playing on it. The latest ones sound amazing, even mimics the grand piano with lid closed, half open or fully open. Has 256 polyphony (sounds at the same time, useful for resonance, and with sustain pedal, and if combining sounds/auto accompaniment, Kawai has 192 at most, Yamaha has less up to the digital grand which also has 256). It also mimics the piano to the point of mimicking the "string resonance", whereby if you press a note softly (so it doesn't make a sound… Which is impossible with some digital pianos such as Kawai ones), keep it depressed then press the same note at a different octave and let go, you will hear the soft echoey sound of the depressed note and the resonance of the higher octave note… Amazing detail to reproduce the sound of the real thing. They also have other details with resonance due to the sustain pedal.

    I would think twice before buying an older Casio. I have an old one (PX300). The new ones can be connected straight to a computer, can record straight to SD, and will be useful even if your dreams of having such enthusiastic pianists at home comes true and you upgrade to an acoustic grand (I will not buy an upright piano as the digital pianos even as cheap as the Privia range sounds close enough/better than many uprights). Sound technology has improved a lot through the years (all older Casio has a "looping" effect problem where he same digital piano gets repeated again and again at softer volume, which doesn't sound that bad except in some instances and you are paying attention), and even the keys (feel, all simulated ebony now, and weighting system to mimic a grand piano, and response to play repetitive rapid passages). Prices of old versus new Casio would also not be too big a difference.

  • congo on 11/12/2018 - 13:40

    Looking for an upright piano for my 5 year old son.
    Thinking about Yamaha & Kawai brands.
    Would like something between Kawai CX5H & Kawai K300. Any recommendations?

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