28 Degrees Mastercard to start charging $4 or 3% fee (the greater) for each cash withdrawal

28 Degrees has just announced a new fee.

From the 1/1/2014 any cash withdrawal will be charged a new fee of $4 or 3% whichever is greater (capped at $30 per transaction).

This closes a loophole with the card where people loaded the card with a positive balance before travelling overseas and getting free withdrawals.

From the FAQ:
"Will I be charged a cash advance fee if my card has a positive balance?
Yes, you will still be charged a cash advance fee if you withdraw cash from your 28 Degrees MasterCard even if the card has a positive credit balance. We do not recommend that you load your card into credit as this is not the intended purpose of the card."

The fee also applies to withdrawals and cash transfers within Australia.

The new fee does not apply to regular credit purchases (in person or online)

Related Stores

28 Degrees Card
28 Degrees Card


  • +5

    That sux, I just got that email about the change. Are there any other alternative cards which offer good exchange rates and no cash advance fees?

    • +12

      hate to say this, but there is only one alternative account..
      citibank plus

      • ING Orange Everyday account also?

        • +1


        • But you can load it up with cash in advance and then take it out when you are overseas?

          (International ATM fee of $2.50)

        • I just looked up an International ATM withdrawal that I did.

          I took out 100 GBP on the 20/6/2013 according to my ING statement.

          If I look up the Mastercard conversion rate for the day it was 0.591502

          If there is no ATM fee, it would have cost $169.07 AUD if I used the 28 Degrees Mastercard.

          I used the ING Orange Everyday card for that transaction and the cost was $168.34 AUD, including the $2.50 International ATM fee

      • +3

        Citibank exchange rates as good as 28 degrees?

        • +1

          yes. they use visa's exchange rate.

        • +1

          sweet. might open a citibank account and use that for withdrawing cash.

        • +4

          wait for a citibank incentive offer.

        • Hopefully one comes up before next year… I'm sure it'd be pretty popular after this announcement!

        • +2


          $120 + fee waiver on citibank platinum, offer ends dec 31

          anyone have experience with citibank credit cards/bundled travel insurance (they seem to use zurich like CBA)

        • That offer expires 31 Dec this year. It's still current. No need to wait?

        • +3

          Just some advanced notice: it is the absolute worst online banking experience I have ever used. I can't explain why in just a few sentences but it is just bleh! At least it works for getting money out and putting money in.

          They actually sent me a LETTER to add a new payee. As well as an SMS and email. Why? WHY?

    • +2

      we need to start a change petition to stop this!

  • +11

    i think i sum up everyones feelings when i say:


    • +8

      And I also add:


  • +7

    28 degrees is still good for overseas purchases (in person or online), but it's a shame to see this loophole closed. Have to dust off the Citibank Plus card now.

    • wouldn't you lose interest having it preloaded?

      • yes, but you can make the transfer via online banking a day or two before you need the money via online banking, so it meant no meaningful loss.
        And as it was only for the cash you need, the amounts were reasonable (i.e. not the whole holiday cost).

    • dunno why nobody has mentioned it but you can still benefit from the price protection

      ive gotten back like $500 in the past year
      so will continue to use for amazon etc

      i just wonder if that cash advance fee is capped at $30? cause if so, then as long as you withdrawl more than $1000, then youre fine

      but i also read that the daily cash advance limit is $1000 anyway -__-

      • i just wonder if that cash advance fee is capped at $30?

        No cap

        • Actually, a recent call, I was informed that there is a cap - up to $3000 (if i go to a bank, $1000 is the max from an ATM) it will only cost $30, so 1%… again there is the argument for getting so much money out, and loosing interest in your savings account but… still not bad, and good to know (especially if you need that kind of money i.e. traveling with family etc).

          :) Hope that helps someone out

  • That's fine. It was good while it lasted but definitely was a loophole

  • +5

    Time to close my account. It's nearly all I did with the card…

    • Me too, although I've been usung it more frequently recently for purchases and have added it as a paypal source. No point having it though, with hefty withdrawal fees.

      • if you use paypal via the card does it count as a cash advance?

        • I've used it to send money to people through Paypal, in $AUD, for phone unlocking services.
          Each time I select the "for goods and services" option on the Paypal screen, there is a second or so delay before it says "for you, no fee". On the 28 degrees statements it is just shown as a purchase, no interest was charged.

          I've sent less than $20 in cash this year, so perhaps there is a cash value where Paypal start charging a fee, or perhaps you only get a certain number of transactions free.

        • i thought there is always a fee if you use credit card as your source.

        • like most transactions - free for sender, fee for recipient :)

    • same… It happened with NAB gold card, so changed to 28 degrees,

      Now to switch to citi bank…

    • I'm the same as wako. Had NAB gold, switched to 28 degrees, now I'll be closing 28 degrees…

  • oh i thought it was a feature of the card. hahaha oh well
    ill hafta use NAB gold for future travels, put in 5000$ and close acc when i get back.

    • +2

      pretty sure NAB also has a fee now, been that way for a fair while.

  • +2

    Ok card is useless now

  • How come I didn't receive this email….
    the change is from jan next year????
    how about Citibank one?

    • The citibank one is still fee-free. It's just debit, not credit.

  • I'm going overseas end of this month and was planning to do exactly this. load the card with money and use it to withdraw or pay for things when necessary. Can I use any ATM for withdrawals? I see it's effective 01/01/2014 so no issues here

    • +2

      You can use any ATM, 28 Degrees will not charge you.

      Some ATM's will charge a fee for use, and they don't always tell you in advance. Try to stick with Bank owned ATM's as they are less likely to charge a fee than the private ATM's.

    • +3

      This is exactly what we do when we go overseas and it works great. However we traveled to Thailand and got stung this fee from the local bank ATM's: Since April 2009, most foreign debit and credit card withdrawals from Thai ATMs MAY incur a 150 baht fee levied by the local ATM owner, in additon to any fees added by your home financial institution.


      • Thanks for the info. I am off to Thailand and was going to still use the card for withdrawals while I can. But now seems not the best strategy with this fee.

  • +5

    This is no big deal for me.
    When I went overseas I only used the 28 degrees for credit purchases and used the Citibank for ATM withdrawals.
    Worked perfectly and still will.

    • +3

      Assuming Citi keeps the feature now that nobody else is offering it…

      • +2

        It's one of Citibank Transaction Plus's selling features…

        The issue with 28 Degrees is that it's a credit card, meant for credit purchases. It is a great loophole that will be closing soon.

        I do the same thing as blaircam.

        • Yeap me to… 28 Degrees for Credit and Citibank for Cash.

        • Does anyone know if Citibank charges a fee/percentage on overseas visa debit purchases?

          From what I read it seems just as good?

        • +1

          No fees on purchases. I don't actually know why people use 28 degrees for overseas travel (unless they need to put it on credit).

          I use citi and it works very well anywhere visa works.

  • This is terrible news!!!

  • Noooooooo I used to make use of that loophole all the time! :(

  • -2

    Might cancel my card and use Qantas cash - $2 per withdrawal - http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-cash-travel-money-card-what-y…

    • +6

      The exchange rate on that card is terrible.

  • Oh nooo……I use this all the time…..I suppose I can still use it for credit transactions when purchasing items overseas….

  • +8

    Awww - oh well it's still a good card for overseas purchases. Will have to look in to citibank plus now.

    This is also frustrating because I used this loophole at home to get interest free money:

    • Take out a credit card that has 0% balance transfers for 6-9months (get a large limit say $15k)
    • Do a balance transfer to the 28 degrees card (that would put the 28 degrees card approximately $15k in credit
    • withdraw the money from 28 degrees via fee free cash advance and deposit it into my mortgage account offsetting the mortgage by 15k

    Was sweet while it lasted, now I'll just play balance transfer round robin with the 15k i guess.

    • +1

      nice setup!

    • +1

      Care to explain further? How are you funding the balance transfer when you have $0 balance on the card you "took out"?

      Or, which credit card lets you go into negative "cash limit" with 0% interest?

      • +17

        Not sure I understand but at the moment I have a citibank card which came with 9 months at 0% ($49 a year fee, which sucks but I have already used up no annual fee cards)


        1) Apply for the citibank card with large credit limit (This one was for $15,000) -
        2) On signup I am asked to specify the bpay details of the 0% balance transfer, I asked for $15,000 to be transferred to the 28 degrees card
        3) I am approved for the $15,000 limit but citibank have some stupid rule that I can't balance transfer the whole amount so they would only do $12,500 - so I did that.
        4) A few days later my 28 degrees card is $12,500 in positive and my citibank card is $12,500 in debit.
        5) I withdraw $1000 per day (annoying limit) via cash advance at an atm from the 28 degrees card until I am back to $0 on the 28 degrees card
        6) I put this $12,500 cash into my mortgage offset account
        7) I wait 9 months while the $12,500 debt I have with citibank is charging me 0% interest
        8) After about 8 months I sign up with the next best deal I can find (hopefully 0% with no or very small annual fee) and I do a balance transfer to the citibank card and pay it off before I have to pay a single cent of interest.

        The above steps I have simplified for clarities sake - I have been doing this for quite a while now and usually what happens is I will pay off an existing card as well as put some into the 28 degrees card depending on the credit limit I get approved for (the last 0% card I used was HSBC and they only gave me $6k so I paid off that 6k with the citibank plus put the remaining amount into my 28 degrees).

        The above makes it sound a lot more complex than it really is - the reality is that it's dead simple and has saved me about $2000 in mortgage interest over the years. People have told me that I will destroy my credit history yadda yadda yadda but I don't see why - I close cards as soon as they are paid off and I never pay a cent of interest or late fees so my credit report just shows a long history of cards without any issues.

        The important part of all of this is the 28 degrees card allowed me to get cash out fee free initially - as long as I can keep moving the $12,500 around through 0% cards I'll be fine. The reality is though that the amount I get approved for varies widely between companies so the 28 degrees card is very handy to have to be able to get the cash out without charge. You could do exactly the same thing if you were a big spender (but you'd have to spend like $10,000 in 55 days to make the whole thing worth it really)

        Before doing this lots of people told me it wouldn't work - the most common reason people cited is that you can't balance transfer to a credit card that isn't in debit by the amount you are balance transfering. This is simply not the case - the bank doing the balance transfer has NO idea of the balance of the card that is receiving the balance transfer - if they did know this info it would be a major breach of privacy. Another thing to note is that this is a completely legitimate practice - nowhere does it say that this is not allowed in any of the T&Cs i have read.

        Banks love to suck people in with balance transfers in the hope that you wont pay it back on time and then be paying them 20% at the end of the balance transfer period. I get a large amount of satisfaction knowing that I am completely thwarting their plan and actually costing them money.

        I have no doubts that if this were a wide spread practice that the banks would clamp down on it as it's clearly a loophole but I really don't think many people are aware that it's even possible. The question now is are there any other CREDIT cards with fee free cash advance? I think 28 degrees was a special case and I am not aware of any others.

        My profit from doing this using the citibank 9 month card as an example:

        12*$1.50 (atm widthdrawal fee $1000 at a time) + Annual Card fee ($49) = $67 in fees
        5.5% (mortage interest rate) on $12,500 saved over 9 months = $515
        Total profit = $495 - $67 = $448

        Is it a lot of work for $448? Some might say yes but I go to the shops anyway so the atm withdrawals weren't that big a deal and I did start doing this with cards that had no annual fee and at a time where mortgage interest rates were higher. Pretty sure this qualifies me as an ozbargainer though…

        • +2

          if it took you 10 hours to save that then your "pay" would be $44.80 an hour.

          not bad.

          and that's $448.00 tax free.

          so if you had gone to work to earn that then pretax you would have earnt ,with 29% tax, say $660ish.

          so pre-tax pay rate is $66 per hour.

          not bad for a "hobby"

        • +1

          I used to do this as well. But you could have saved that atm fee if you used a westpac atm to withdraw. Also it was only a 1k limit daily but uou could have gone into a westpac bank and do another 2k cash advance via the teller. So effectively 3k a day.

          This that close the loophole now becsuse I have tried doing a balance transfer to a debit card but for obvious reasons do not work. However o think you can try bpaying the money out of the 28 degrees card into say a debit card account but I havent tried because I think you need to set that up .

          another thing you can take advantage on is citibank cheque to self instead of a balance transfer. It basically sends you a cheque instead of moving the funds to the other credit account however I have only done this once when my citibank platinum account offrred me 0% for 9 months and I sent myself 20k.

          also if you have a cba credit card, balance transfers are easily done but at 5.9% for 5months so if have a higher debt liability than that you can essentially move money out of that as well. Work only well if you have a very high limit. I have had a cba awards card and citibank platinum card (free "upgrade" from the old gold card) for a while and have progressively increased it to 20k now for both

        • And that there folks, is one of many reasons why they are shutting it down id say. Watch citii do it next, id have to score 100 an hour to ever deal with those pricks again though….

        • +1

          I've read in other forums that you have to be careful if applying too many credit cards because it will show in your credit history (Veda). So if you try to apply for another loan/homeloan/CC, you might be disadvantaged because lenders can see that you have applied for heaps of credit cards in the past. Somehow that translates to higher risk for them leading to loan application being rejected.

        • Damn - didn't realise westpac atms were fee free.

          I don't think bpaying the money out of 28 degrees will work unfortunately because there is a special flag on some bpay billers the flags them as a "Credit" account. This is to stop people paying off credit cards with other credit cards in order to get constant interest free money (you'd just pay off in a circle so you get your 55 days interest free).

          I definitely can't pay my mortgage with my 28 degrees card.



          "For a couple of years he survived by rolling his debts from one zero balance transfer offer to another. It helped keep his head above water - just - but it was doing significant damage to his credit file."

        • Also, your comment:

          "I get a large amount of satisfaction knowing that I am completely thwarting their plan and actually costing them money."

          is false. The card company created the credit they extended you out of thin air. It didn't cost them anything. All explained in Banking 101…

        • At no point would I have an issue servicing the debt - I have plenty of redraw available on the mortgage.

          The claim that the amount of credit cards you have applied for affects your ability to obtain credit is interesting. I have never heard any hard evidence of this occurring. Without looking at the guys credit report it would be hard to know but I reckon there is more to the story.

        • This article explains why applying too many credit card is not a good idea.


        • Why you didn't ask for a cheque? Citibank send you a cheque and it is under their balance transfer.

        • "This comes from a study that shows that people who apply for multiple credit cards are more than four times likely to have a problem paying their debt in the following year."

          Makes me think that perhaps it's more likely to be a problem if you have applied for cards in short succession - I only do one every 6-9 months and I could make it less frequent again if my partner and I took it in turns.

          In any case it doesn't really bother me because If I started getting declined life would go on. I have a mortgage with a good rate and I'll never default on any debts. Until that time I will do my best to continue what I'm doing and save $600 a year.

          Didn't know citibank sent cheques - thanks for the tip - will try to ask that question in the future. That would be ideal.

        • "This comes from a study that shows that people who apply for multiple credit cards are more than four times likely to have a problem paying their debt in the following year."

          sounds like people who are desperate for cash and are spending it. using the 0% to reduce homeloans is smart management.

        • I do a similar thing…It's $2.50 for a cash advance for CBA if the account is in credit…there is always that option, and you can withdraw as much as you like (well whatever your pre-set limit that you set yourself is) if you withdraw from a branch…I personally cash advance it from my credit card to my savings account online, no ATM, no branch needed :-)

        • That sounds good. Does it have a daily or transaction limit or is it $2.50 for as much as you want? Might actually work out better than 28 degrees if it has no limit.

        • While the card may have no limit, many ATM's OS do, so that will be a factor you need to take into account. Why bother when you can get the Citibank Plus account for free and have no annual fees etc plus you dont need to carry around wads of cash.

  • 28D is good for CC purchases. For me personally the ATM feature is not that much use. I always take cash and change to local currency wherever I'm going. The exchange rate is ALWAYS better doing it that way.

    • +2

      I wouldn't feel very safe carrying thousands of dollars in AUD around everywhere for my entire holiday.

    • +2

      You change cash where? At the local Travelex or whatever? And you think you're getting a good deal?

      • +7

        I know where to change. I always get a better deal than the Visa Exchange Rate. Travelex etc is for suckers.
        No need to carry thousaaands. Most items can be paid for with CC. Cash is for small incidental stuff.

        • +3

          It depends on where you travel. South east asia is very cash oriented and we spent thousands with cash even though we used the credit card where available

        • +3

          LOL if you spend thousands in cash in SEA you're probably not too concerned about spending $20 on fees.
          PS: 80% of my travels are to SEA.

        • Well said gimme, it's a good CC and we do exactly like you when travelling to SEA and take along a reasonable amount of cash and we exchange it for local money, not that much just enough to use at markets and street vendors ect. Bigger purchases always go on the CC and get paid on time at the end of each month. Simple.

        • +1

          I am very surprised at this. the VISA spread is pretty narrow. If your haggling is so awesome, arbitraging between the buy and sell and do it for a living!
          For example, for Ringits:
          Visa exchange rate: http://corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_r…
          Market Exchange: http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=100&From…

          Shows 0.006% spread. Or are you contending the traders you use will sell local currency for higher than market rate but offer poor rates selling foreign, so they make all the margin on the selling side?
          If you are negotiating better than half a percent spread, then wow!

      • In SEA many places have local currency exchanges where the conversion rate is much better. Plus haggling will always give you an even better rate.

    • +2

      Hmm, are you sure?

      Last year before i went to japan i did yen conversions at KVB Kunlum (considered the best rates for personal conversions afaik) for $1000 and $500 for a friend.

      In japan using my 28d card at the 711/7bank atms, the rate ended up being better.
      Just saying.

      • japan is not part of SEA.

      • Thanks for the tip. Going to Japan next month but read somewhere on tripdvisor that you can no longer use foreign MasterCard at 7/11 ATMs. Is that right?

        • I went there in Feb/march this year and you can use foreign cards at places like 7/11. I can't remember everywhere else but try all convenience stores (7/11, SunRus, FamilyMart and Lawson), I remember at least one of those works. Otherwise most japan post offices have foreign ATMs, and there are also citibank branches/atms around (with western atms). Honestly you won't have a problem finding atm's that take visa/mastercard. Also if you get a good rate on your foreign card/s, I wouldn't bother wasting money getting cash before you leave. Just get some at the airport (osaka/tokyo/all major ones have western ATMs).

          Most of all, have fun! It's an awesome country and I bet you'll love it.

        • Nonsense. Am in Japan and withdrew cash via 7/11 2days ago using o/seas mastercard.
          All you need is your PIN.
          7/11 is by far the best place to withdraw cash in Japan by the way….but that should go into another discussion thread…

    • No way you are able to get a better rate with a local money changer than the rate you get taking cash out of an ATM. When you withdraw cash at an ATM, you essentially get the wholesale interbank rate which is effectively the same as the FX spot rate you can see on sites like XE.com

      Feel free to continue with this practice if you think it works best for you but know that you are definitely not getting the best rate, not even remotely close to it.

  • +3

    I might be forced to sign up to Citi now. Had been a proud non-customer of theirs for years. Damn :(

  • +1

    citibank has a promotion at the moment where you get $120 back after one year if you sign up for the starter package (plus account + online saver account) and deposit $3k/month for 12 months (the money doesn't have to stay in there). http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/113317 . just make sure you sign up using the starter package link.

  • +1

    Does the bankwest platinum zero cc allow free withdrawals if you load money in it?

    • Not it does not. Same fees as what 28 degrees will have post Jan 1:

      Cash advance fee: Greater of 2% or $4.00


      Once we hit 2014, Citibank Plus and its Visa Debit card will be the ONLY way for Australians to withdraw cash overseas without paying a fee.

      Let's just hope Citibank doesn't decide to join the 'party' and start charging too. I don't think they will though as this remains their ONLY competitive advantage and the ONLY reason why people are willing to put up with their clunky internet banking and poor customer service.

  • +5

    I've always used citibank for ATM withdrawals and 28deg for credit purchases. Works great.

    • +2

      Yes. Agreed. That's the ideal setup.

      The Bankwest Platinum Zero credit card is actually better based on our research since it has all the features of 28 degrees plus 'premium' perks like free travel insurance, purchase protection insurance, concierge etc.

      If you can qualify for the PLATINUM card than it is superior to 28 degrees. The standard and gold cards are not recommended as they have a foreign currency fee.

  • +1

    petestrash, thank you so much for posting this - like some others, I had not received the notification email yet.

    I will be halfway through an overseas holiday when it kicks in. Whilst I can withdraw some extra cash in the 1st country prior to New Year's, I'll have to figure something out for the 2nd country after 01/01.

    At least we can all still use it for foreign currency purchases.

    • Citibank seems to be the way to go for that if the rest of the comments are any indication

  • +2

    next best option after Citibank is ING Direct, it's a $2.50 flat fee no % charge. (but don't use it to make purchases as it attracts a 2.5% fee)

    • Does the ING Direct card just charge the $2.50 for cash withdrawal or is there also a Foreign Transaction Fee on top of that?

      I know my Westpac debit card charges an ATM fee (if not used at a global partner) and an additional 3% of the $AUD transaction amount.

      This sucks, I got the 28 only a few months back and was planning to use it in Feb for this reason.

      • For a cash withdrawal it is only a $2.50 fee. They also use the visa exchange rate.

        • Do you have personal experience with that and can vouch personally that the fixed $2.50 fee is the only fee they charge for cash withdrawals and that they don't put the 2.5% international purchase fee on top of that?

          If you don't have personal experience, can you please provide other supporting evidence to substantiate your above claim? Got anything in writing from ING themselves?

          It's just not very clear from their website and I never used their card to withdraw cash while overseas.

          Thanks heaps :)

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