Accepting 5c coins

I have been to more one fast food type restaurants that have signs saying they don't accept 5c coins, today another one trying to tell me they don't accept 5c (verbally, no signage). These are all cash businesses, otherwise I always pay by card. In all cases I left the money on the counter and turned around, ignoring what they say because 5c is a legal tender, I accepted it as change from others and I expect others to accept it as form of payment.

It prompted me to look up the conditions of payment in coins:

http://banknotes.rba.gov.au/legaltender.html

  • not exceeding $5 if any combination of 5c, 10c, 20c and 50c coins are offered
  • not exceeding 10 times the face value of the coin if $1 or $2 coins are offered

If someone wants to pay a merchant with five cent coins, they can only pay up to $5 worth of five cent coins and any more than that will not be considered legal tender.

So a merchant can't just put up a sign and refuse to take 5c coins unless in excessive amount. I found it is a very poor customer service practice, they can easily change the 5c at the bank as they have to go to get changes anyway.

Additional info

Further reading indicates a merchant can specify accepted form of payment in advance, for example not accepting 5c coins before exchange of goods.

Comments

  • Nice Find!

  • +50

    'we dont take 5c pieces'

    'price is $9.95'

  • +8

    You take whatever I give you, that will be my attitude. Obviously I won't be a d|ck and give $5 worth of 5c coins. Don't think I've ever given $1 worth of 5c coins either, most was more probably 20c.

    • You'd have to be one to carry around that much in 5c coins. I think the most I've ever accumulated was 30c.

      • +2

        Cash it in for a soft-serve at Maccas :P

  • +5

    If they don't take ur cash, don't give them ur business.

    Crazy refusal.

  • +1

    It's money so I don't see why they're making such a big fuss about it

  • +7

    I suspect the main reason is because "some" cash businesses always report loss or break even to avoid tax, they pay cash to the suppliers and wages, nothing goes to banks or on the books. So coins in general, particularly 5c ones become a burden.

    Seriously, a thousand of 5c coins only worth $50, in the scheme of things comparing to the tax they did not pay it's like a drop in the ocean. But the bean counters are obviously too cheap to disregard them. If they did go to the bank, it will be hard to explain the large number of 5c coins since they were claiming a loss due to lack of customers.

    So the easy way out is to try to refuse 5c coins, which is ridiculous to tell paying customers.

    • +6

      If they were doing what you say and really wanted to ignore 5c they could just dump them into the RSPCA labrador at the end of the day.

      • +5

        Only a suspicion. Similar to businesses charging high transaction fees to discourage credit card payments. It's not about bank fees, but to keep transactions off the books.

        They always use the excuse of bank fees, but there's overhead and risk associated with handling cash that they don't seem to mind. Why large businesses and supermarkets provide cash outs for free? Because they don't want to keep cash, electronic records are much more accurate and efficient, and they can afford "top notch" accountants.

        Small businesses, on the other hand, cannot afford the same accountants so they just keep everything off the books. Small "cash only" businesses are notorious in under report taxable incomes and they are typically not charity friendly, because they don't get tax deductions.

        • +2

          Yes, but if some of their prices end in 5 they have to provide change in 5c so they have to carry some. And why couldn't they instruct employees to get rid of 5c whenever possible? Another place to dump 5c is to buy something at the self-service counters in supermarkets, provided there isn't a queue of impatient people behind you.

        • +4

          We always run out of five cent coins at work. .95 pricing… I would never lose a sale due to some one having a heap of coins. Cash is cash!

          So easy to change coins to cash at the bank just dump them all in the sorting machine and done.

          Make sure you tell said business that if they don't like your money you will go elsewhere.

        • +1

          The post office just put them in a bag and weigh them. No need to count it out

  • +14

    Next time I will ask them "do you think I carry 5c coins for fun? Where do you think the 5c coins come from? Did they grow from my pocket? It was change from previous purchases you dumb arse!" :P

  • It sounds to me like 5c pieces are on the way out like 1c and 2c pieces a few years ago. In that case it's time to collect them - they will go up in value.

    • +3

      1 and 2 cents coins are not rare by a long shot. Even Penny's are still cheap to buy. Not worth collecting unless your able to take so many that no one else can get any.

    • +12

      Yes, maybe they will be worth 6 cents one day!

      • +3

        Would you round down if you paid with a five cent piece?

  • +9

    Did you read a the bit at the bottom of that link? Seems businesses can set conditions on what they'll accept. Some businesses don't accept cash or small coins.

    Really annoys me because I was planning paying the next idiot that wants to charge me a credit card surcharge in 5c pieces.

    • +1

      Agreed. Selective quotation.

      Not that I agree with the tactic, but if you are going to argue a point, argue it right.

      Personally, I just prefer putting everything through my CC so I don't have to deal with physical cash.

      • +7

        How about the charlatans who have minimum Eftpos purchase. Seriously you can't win with these businesses who make it hard for you to give them your money.

        • +1

          Nandos has that policy!

        • +4

          +1 for using the word charlatan :)

    • -3

      I know a small business owner.

      Amex want 4.5% of the transaction. Visa and Mastercard want 2%. Cash costs $5 in fuel to go down the bank once a week. Got a problem with surcharges? Blame the banks.

      • +10

        He needs to learn to negotiate. Ours are less then 1%

        • +2

          Do you accept Amex?

        • +1

          Which bank are you with, and is that rate across all card types - standard, premium, super premium, overseas cards ?

      • +9

        Credit cards are a convenience to not only the customer, but the shop. Counting money, protecting it from theft and all of the paranoia associated with the risk if threat. Transporting it physically to the banks.

        I really think that if you want to offer to accept a credit card, then as the retailer you suck up the charges. Quoting Yoda, "Do or do not not". Take the card free or don't take the card.

        Try and charge me an extra $30 for my iPad again and see where it gets you JB! Straight to the Good Guys that don't charge me extra for the same product when paying with the same card. That's where!!! But not after spending five minutes explaining to the nice lass on the counter that I know it's not her doing, but she must tell her masters that security guards are expensive, counting money takes an inordinate time, and they've just lost another sale to a tightarse. And there's lots of us our there, and I'll tell them all!!!!!

        Crazy old man rant finished.

        • +6

          Straight to the Good Guys that don't charge me extra for the same product when paying with the same card.

          No but they give you a discount if you pay cash.

        • +1

          i didn't have a particularly good experience with that….they offered me $5 off on a $2000 laptop a few years ago. i just went

          -_-

        • JB have never charged me a credit surcharge. Are you using Amex?

        • +5

          Yes, Amex.

          Conversation generally goes a little bit like this:

          • Are you we have a 3.65% surcharge on Amex? Are you happy with that?

          • Yes I am aware and no I'm mad as hell about it, and here's why……

          Five minutes later, still annoyed at myself for forgetting about the surcharge and shopping in JB, I leave the store. I'm only forty, but I'm sure the 16 year old on the till is thinking old people complain about everything. Poor young'ns will be happily paying surcharges, road tolls and probably a breathing tax soon and never know of a simpler time when all this stuff was incorporated into other costs.

          Like the airlines. What idiot decided that adding fuel surcharges, a charge for taking a bag on the plane and a trolley with sandwiches so you don't expire mid flight? Just make the fare and charge it and tell me the total price!!! I don't want to have the option to pay $10 more for a window.

          Give me freedom from choice!!!!!!

        • +1

          To be fair though AMEX and Diner cards have stupidly high fees and do not negotiate.

          My friend runs a small business and can't get AMEX to come down much on their price but he can get 1% fees for mastercard and visa

  • +2

    This reminds me of the.last time i lost a bet.. got all up me I won I won … so I rolled around his house with $100 in 5&10 cent pieces in a garbage bag…. I was debt free and he was not so pleased.. I wasnt going to tell him about the sorting machine at bank. Just give him the money bags to sort out…. not a cent more…

    • +1

      We gave a friend his (combined) 21st present in 5/10/20c pieces, maximum weight to value ratio (5's are slightly better).

      It was nearly $1000, roughly 10,000 coins which came to ~56.5kg.

      The sad part was that he doesn't bank with CBA, so he had to make several trips to the bank and burden a teller to get the coins cashed.

  • +7

    You're incorrect OP.

    So a merchant can't just put up a sign and refuse to take 5c coins unless in excessive amount.

    Yes they can. If you continued to read the page you linked to you'd see that:

    It appears that a provider of goods or services is at liberty to set the commercial terms upon which payment will take place before the 'contract' for supply of the goods or services is entered into. For example, some vending machines, parking meters and road toll collection points indicate by signs that they will not accept low denomination coins. Some road toll collection points indicate that they will not accept any cash at all. If a provider of goods or services specifies other means of payment prior to the contract, then there is usually no obligation for legal tender to be accepted as payment.

    Legal tender only applies to settle a debt. So if you're pre-paying at a restaurant they have the right to specify the payment method. If you post-pay however legal tender would apply.

    • "Where no other mean of payment/settlement has been specified in advance".

      If the restaurant indicates it clearly upon entry they don't have to legally accept it.

    • +1

      I stand corrected. But then the merchant needs to make it known in advance, like a big sign at the door. Not announcing it at the time of payment.

      • "A big sign makes a better target for my big bag of 5c coins". Gotcha ;P

  • +2

    I think 5c are on the way out soon anyway. I read something that it costs more to make them than what they are worth.

    I really hate going to the shop where the shop attendant wastes 10 minutes while someone searches their bag for 5c (seriously your time wasted cost more than that) But when they run out of 5c they want the customer to let it slide. Red Lea do it all the time.

    I rarely use my change so sometimes I run into a checkout chick who ran out of change so I scoop up a tonne from the bottom of my bag and they get so happy

  • +2

    Should have told this guy who tried to pay his parking find in 5c coins

    http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/09/what-happens-when-you-t…

    • +6

      Hard to cheer for that guy when he acted like a bit of a d|ck just dumping two kilos of 5c pieces on that girls desk. She is just the ham in the sandwich.

    • What a pure bastard. I'm disappointed the girl didn't quickly scoop the coins up in a bag and bludgeon him with it.

  • If it was a coffee shop who tried to say no 5c then I would go deliberately get 5c of the entire amount (usually less than $5 which means its legal tender) and pay with it.

    If they didn't accept it, then tell them you don't want the items anymore. lol.

  • I havent seen such signs yes in Melbourne. But sometimes when I'm at the cashier customers try to give me New Zealand coins. And sometimes they get upset and force me to accept those foreign coins , telling me they are the same. I just refuse them. Why are new Zealand coins so similar?

    • Yes I found this a problem too about 5 years back.

      When in a rush I would just look at the shape of the coins but then looking at them closer it would say "New Zealand". But now I haven't had this problem for a long time.

  • +1

    It's about time Australia got rid of the 5 cent coin, heck I'd even prefer the 10c and 20c coins gone as well. You can barely get anything for under 50 cents.

    • +15

      get rid of the 50 too…i hate all those sharp edges/corners.

      in fact, get rid of all coins because they cramp my style and i'd rather sit on a hefty stack of bills

      • +2

        The 50c coin was developed in that shape to assist visually impaired people to distinguish it from other coins. Many visually impaired people would have difficulties dealing with notes alone, although the notes are of different sizes too many of the colours are similar hued. Unfortunately we still don't live in a perfect world where we can trust everyone to be honest. Personally I am a bit wary of the swipe and pay idea or I would be all for chip implants.

        • coins will be around until everything we buy is neatly priced in whole dollars only. and until electronic payments are perfectly secure and eft systems don't ever crash, cash will always be king.

          although i do pay for nearly everything with my amex credit card (the black sheep of all cards ;) and avoid most merchants that either surcharge or impose minimum purchase amounts on card payments, or are cash only. for me, paying by card is cleaner, quicker and easier to track my spending.

  • +40

    The answer is simple, the business can either choose to A. Accept the 5c coin. B. Reduce the price by 5c C. Choose not to do business with you. The default answer if they will not oblige A or B is C.

    I once ordered a Subway sub for $9.95 and tendered $10.00 cash (all I had on me). They refused to give me 5c change due to "not having any". I suggested that they can some change from the adjoining service station but they refused, they would not give me 10c change instead (effectively reducing the price by 5c), so with no other option (and on principal of not giving them an extra 5c because they couldn't be bothered to carry enough change and the staff didn't have enough brain cells to remedy the situation) I walked away with my $10.00 and they kept their Sub.

    • +16

      Good on you. I'm with you on that one.

      • +15

        Absolutely. I would have thought it was illegal to not provide at least exact change, and even trying to do it is a crock, considering they wouldn't accept losing 5c; why should you?

    • +3

      This just illustrates the agency problem with retail staff. They couldn't really care less if they lose a sale, they just do whatever is easiest to get by until the end of their shifts.

      • +1

        Economics. Love references in discussions :)

      • +5

        From what I understand the front desk staff have to account for the contents of their till at the end of their shift and are asked to explain any discrepancies and well to be blunt they aren't hard to replace.

        I think the problem is management not allowing them the leeway for situations like this.

        • -1

          And a lack of sales incentives.

        • I'm sure it would be harder to explain an unsold sub or missing ingredients than it would be to explain 5c. No manager would be upset over 5c less profit than have stock go to waste.

        • The missing ingredients are likely to be insignificant to the total discrepancy within the stocktaking period and they're also attributable to the entire sales staff. Whereas, the till balance is attributable to only one or a few members of staff. That's the difference.

          Also, there may be an allowance for damaged stock, the staff may be able to consume the sub and/or there may be no allowance for necessary discounting due to a lack of float.

    • That's ridiculous. I hope you never went there again.

      They'd have been better off giving you the meal and the $10 back as I suspect they would have made more from your returning business and you telling people about getting a free meal.

      • +1

        You're damn right I never went there again. I was running late and needed something quick, so I ended up going hungry than to let them win.

        Here's the name and shame: https://maps.google.com.au/maps?t=m&q=Subway%C2%AE+Restauran…

        Funny enough there is another review about them squabbling over a few cents. Time for another review I think.

        • +1

          This where it gets interesting , he asked me what I had ordered and I told him a foot long ……. I handed over my 50 Ca$h and the man handed my change , just over $45 and some cents …. I said " I don't think you have charged me correctly?" He looks at the till to check it out and I went to hand him the total change so he could adjust and he took the $5 note and the change. He then rings it up and says "sir I actually need some more from you!" I hand it over and the total was $10.95 which is the correct price from looking at the menu. The man who I think was the manager, needs a lesson in customer service. 3 separate times handing over money is crazy. I personally as a business owner would not have asked for the extra $1 and rewarded the honest customer , as I could have easily walked away and they would have lost around $6…

          Obviously not an OzBargainer.

  • Just out of curiosity, what place is this you are talking about?

    • Name and Shame. I like it.

  • +2

    A few 5c coins is reasonable, but giving like 100 just for the heck of it is when it becomes an issue. I tend to try to use my 5c coins first.

    (this is not directed at the OP or anyone here) I don't care who you are or what the law says, anyone who tries to pay in 5c just "because I can" is an asshole.

  • +2

    Slightly OT but wish they'd just abolish 5c coins. NZ has done it and they survived. Plus, the 5c coin now is worth less than the 2c coin was when we abolished it.

    • -1

      there really isnt a reason to… its not about what its worth , its about being able to pay the correct price without having to round up/down.

      i rearly pay in small change , i chuck it all in a bucket and hand it into the bank for some notes every so often , but id hate to lose out on that change because 5c no longer exist.

  • +1

    Most vending machine these day dont accept 5c coins. This include train and parking ticket machine. I have been in a situation where i have to break up 10 and 20 dollars note just so they can give me back 4-5 2$ coin in change so many time when i could have paid with coin if they accept 5c.

    • +1

      Bayside Shopping Centre (Frankston) parking machines accept 5c coins. If they didn't I wouldn't be so inclined to park there, as it is ridiculously expensive to park there these days …. paid $7 for only a few hours there last week! I often find many shopkeepers that are short of low denomination coins and are more than happy to accept them; in fact I have even been asked to change up most of my coins when they realize my coin purse is quite full. Those stores that are being pedantic about the rules would lose any repeat business. I sometimes hate buying small items when I only have a fifty or hundred dollar note, but although I apologise, I don't receive complaints.

  • +12

    I've found the best way to get rid of coins is to use the self service checkout at Woolworths/Safeway and pour all your loose change into the coin funnel. You can precount it or just trust the machine to give you the correct change.

    • They've miscounted my change a few times :(

  • +4

    A five cent coin is legal tender, for all debts in Australia. The business has no choice but to take the coin unless the customer presents them with an unreasonable request, such as making payment with a handful of five cent coins.

    Even coins and notes that are no longer in circulation, such as the one and two cent coins, and paper bank notes can be used. Wouldn't recommend it however as the average cashier was not alive the last time those were issued.

    EDIT: A few months ago I paid with cash at an automatic ticket machine in an underground carpark. The machine returned a five cent coin as change instead of two dollars, despite the machine not allowing low denomination coins as payment. I emailed the company and actually got them to credit me the missing $1.95 to my bank account. They were still skeptical however that I could have received a five cent coin.

  • +3

    Odd world we live in: companies refusing legitimate forms of payment.

    Can I, as a customer, refuse change in coins or refuse certain types of coins?

  • +1

    I guess it's the same as all those places that have signs saying "Cash Only" … that also kinda have that sense of "tax evasion" flavour about them.

    Scrooge McDuck is right, in saying that the Vendor can specify the type of payment as long as it is before the transaction occurs … but it does not retract from the fact that not accepting coins is a pretty bad way to treat customers.

    "Can I, as a customer, refuse change in coins or refuse certain types of coins?" … again, the point is you enter a contract with certain terms and conditions. If you specify you want your change to be paid to you in Jolly Ranchers after you pay him, then it's really up to the Vendor to accept/decline your offer. Just like you accepting (or not) their offer to make you a burger but only if you don't give them any 5 cent coins.

  • I noticed in Europe that some merchants would refuse to accept the 500 Euro note.. Or was it 200… cant remember..

    • I hear that problem with the $100 bill in the US, since most of its counterfeit

    • I had the same issue with $100 notes in Canada.

  • when I was in bangkok recently was catchin the sky train everywhere, the places I was travelin was28 baht, so I ended up with a poket full of 1c pieces, the lady was not impressed on my 28 baht in 1 baht coins,neither was my buddy next in line at the grumpy woman, so the next time I paid my 45 baht in 1 and 2s into the vending machine… maybe next time ill just give em to beggers,

  • i remember paying for a pizza hut buffet with a jar of left over coins, lucky the manager took the 5 mins to count the coins

  • I have a similar problem with the tax office. I often have to pay tax debts for deceased estates. There is some stupid rule saying that the tax office won't accept payments from people unless they are authorised (ie have a letter of authority).

    I generally just walk in the door and shove the letter in the drop box, and then wave away the protestations of the person behind the counter.

    Occasionally I get a letter from the tax office saying that they cant accept the payment (they never return the cheque though) and asking me to get a letter of authority, which I always ignore. Any judge would laugh at them if they launched court proceedings.

    • That's rather ridiculous really. To what illegal purpose would a person be paying someone else's tax bill (deceased of not) I wonder? Money laundering … hardly. As an Executor of a will you are supposed to be tidying up any debts a deceased person has outstanding before making any payments to benficiaries.

      Medicare allows me to pay medical bills on behalf of a dependant but the dependant receives the refund not I.

      I know a lady (with early onset alzheimers and suspect poor reading/writing skills) that enjoys the social aspect of paying her bills in person, so she is usually ahead hundreds of dollars in her utilities bills (Easy Way payment card and an enjoyable trip to a post office). The local Council recently sent her a letter advising her not to pay any more rates excessively ahead of time (more than a year) and also issued a refund cheque. Unusual situation but resolved without drama.

      • Sounds like the council are just inventing problems for themselves. As far as I'm concerned people can pay me ahead of time as far as they like. I would have just sent back the cheque.

  • +2

    I work at a store where people have come in and tried to pay me $50 in silver coins, and I don't have time to stand there while other customers are left waiting for them to count it. So I just take their word for it so that other people don't have to stand there waiting for ages. But when I do re-count it, usually they've not given me enough money.

    If you're going to pay me a couple dollars in 5c coins then fine, but standing there and counting $10- $15 of it isn't acceptable. If you have a lot of coins go to the bank and change it.

    Don't you think it's a bother if you were working at the cashier and someone walked in with a container full of coins?

    • -2

      You have a Job….

      • -1

        What's your excuse?

      • What's your point?

    • Could you ask them to move aside while you serve the quicker customers first?

      • The counter is right next to the exit, so they'd probably have to move outside, although that said, I have asked people to moved aside until they finished counting. But whilst busy with other customers. They disappeared with their groceries without paying.

  • +3

    In my country, Indonesia, some supermarkets will give you lollies if your change is less than 1000 rupiahs ( around 10 cents)

  • +2

    Gained 5c today when Dominos didn't have any 5c pieces :)

    • Once my friends and me ordered a few pizzas from Dominos. Cost $29.95 and we paid the delivery driver with 5c pieces we had stocked up over the years. He had sit to in his car and count out the total lol.

  • -2

    So you didnt decide to ask them why they didnt accept 5c, instead decided to rudely ignore them and turn around? Lol okay.

    Dont get me wrong, its ridiculous that they dont want to accept it, i work in fast food and love getting 5c pieces, always running out of them, but you sound like you handled the whole situation badly..

    • -1

      well, considering it was rather rude of the shop to only tell the OP they didn't accept 5c verbally, at the counter why should s/he bend over backwards to show them courtesy in return?

      while this in no way excuses the type of demanding customer that treats all retail workers as slaves, it never makes good business sense to treat customers with contempt

  • Perhaps you should offer to leave a tip. See if they bend the rule for that.

  • Customer Service here sucks.

    I went to the US last year so took all my 1c coins saved up on my previous trip.

    Bought 4 chocolate Sundaes at McDonalds in Anaheim whilst the customer service person patiently counted out the cents as my cousin vainly wished for the floor to open up and swallow her.

    Imagine that happening here.

    • I think they have more sink-holes in the US than here, so no, can't really imagine it…

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