Hi OzB,
So my whole family received a fine for $20 for not voting in the by-election. Can anyone offer insight on what happened if they didn't pay? I find it ludicrous that they'll take it to court. Im pretty sure i was interstate for that entire week, and the others just oblivious it was on. We're the sort of people to forget either. Now i do have friends in the medical profession who can cough help. But id rather not even though they've offered.
At least Labor are the lesser of two evils and look after the elderly and have plans for education and healthcare for all (not just the wealthy).
There is still a difference between Labor and Liberal with right wing tea party extremists such as Abbott and Hockey in charge. The Liberals sent staff over to the U.S to learn from the Tea Party but unlike Australia, the Americans weren't as stupid and gullible this time around.
And it's already a farce. Forcing the entire country to vote on their day off (if they get one), only to have one of the two same herds of pigs feeding from the trough on Monday. They should just join Labor & Liberal together, and leave working Australians to get on with supporting the country, and pensioners to freeze or starve to death.
Completely agree, on top of that, at least with the parties, you know what they stand for. When you vote for an independent, usually it's somebody you've barely ever heard of, you don't know what they stand for and what they wish to achieve…etc.
It's funny you should say that. I know that's the way the media present it, and many people I've spoken to say the same thing. John Howard's crowd definitely had a habit of talking down the unemployed, pensioners, single mothers, etc. But in the background Liberal were regularly pouring (well ok, trickling) money into their pockets. Ok, just before an election Rudd POURED money at them. But a while later again, just before Liberal were voted back in, Labor was making noises about raking most of that back.
Please provide one example (excluding Defence) where government pays 40x times what it could be done for.
You're kidding right? I guess you've never worked for companies that tender for government contracts.
How about that stupid stainless steel flagpole they put up years ago. Millions of dollars just for an arrogant status symbol.
Or the harbour tunnel nearly no-one used, so the company handed it back to government.
I'm not kidding, and I have worked on many government contracts. There was no substantial difference between what we charged private enterprise versus public sector. In many cases the government contract was tougher than what we could charge private enterprises.
Please enlighten us with your plans for building a second harbour crossing at 1/40th of the price of the Sydney Harbour Tunnel.
Assuming you're a "taxpayer" then you've had your own snout in the trough on many occasions even if you don't recognise it. It's more than likely your parents did also. Tax breaks, family payments, super concessions, health concessions, childcare concessions, GFC handouts…… The idea that you're out there on your own doing the right thing by "your country" and most others are dishonest grifters is ludicrous to say the least. It's a complex world. Try to come to terms with it and make a difference where YOU can instead of rolling out generalised and frankly ignorant waffle about government, politics , budgets and democracy.
Ugh the same old tired argument, "If you don't like it then leave". That sort of argument implies the current situation is the way things should be and that no improvement is required, it breeds resentment and causes stagnancy.
I hope someone says the same thing to you someday when you express dislike for something going on in the country, examine how you feel then. Will you take your own advice and leave?
So because the first tunnel was an incredible example of government waste, I should build a second one to prove it? Interesting idea. ;-p
(The 40x figure was obviously an exaggeration pulled out of thin air. Well, at least you'd hope so. But we do all constantly see incredible and idiotic waste by government, like the taxes they rake in are confetti.)
We all know the private contractor/tender cost is not the only cost. Governments wasted who knows how much on those two stupid examples above and many others. In the case of the tunnel, the public clearly told the government years before they built it, that they wouldn't use it - and true to their word, barely anyone did. So few in fact, that the company running it couldn't hand it back fast enough, like a hot potato.
I think you we're speaking to me, but some replies don't seem to be lining up in the correct place.
But if government didn't steal people's wages then those people wouldn't need to put their hand out for concessions. Gov. forceably 'redistributes' (steals) one person's money and gives it to someone else.
People will say things like, but what about roads, hospitals, pensions… they all come from tax. Well ok, but I was reading about a country the other day (I want to say Denmark, but that could be wrong)… that doesn't tax. Yet they obviously have the same kinds of infrastructure.
Wherever it was, it was also high on the list of places in the world where people are content. (No government hands in their pocket - and they're happy - no coincidence there.)
I'm not sure how they do it - selling resources maybe!? If so, Australia has far more resources, so why are our politicians crying poor, and every time they do, we know they're getting us ready to take more money off workers, and food out of the mouths of those least able to spare it.
Boy have I got a story to tell. Wish I could tell it too, but if I did, I know I'd be silenced quick smart.
I've seen some incredible examples of abuse on ordinary people by corrupt government departments. Countless politicians have been approached for assistance, but they all show zero interest, doing all they can to disengage themselves rather do what's right and ease people's suffering. 99.9% of the mass media also refuse to report one detail of these abuses, choosing instead to tow the gov. line, fearing reprisals.
Anyway… it's off the soapbox for me.
A country that doesn't tax? It's called nirvana, or maybe not if you want a moderately egalitarian society with services and infrastructure that are accessible to most - not just the wealthy,the healthy, and the connected. That you haven't got a clue is pretty obvious. Your arguments are full of elementary holes. The so-called "content" nations you think you might have read about are the highest taxed in the OECD but if you can't understand the different issues Australia has to confront then you need to go back to high school. Here's just a few clues - low population, huge areal extents and distances, remoteness from markets, weather and habitable/farmable land issues. Without our natural resources we'd be an absolute basket case of an economy and we'd be eagerly sucking in every immigrant we could. Yes integrity and honesty are under attack and politics is arguably at its lowest point in modern Australian history but if you can't see and enjoy the good things this nation has to offer then you're missing out badly. You have a story to tell. So what, there are thousands of them. As I said elsewhere do what you can to bring about improvement and help those caught in the "suffering".
I normally state my opinion and leave others to theirs. But no countries without income tax? Seems I'm not the one without a clue:
15 Countries Where There Is No Income Tax - http://www.refinedguy.com/2013/04/11/15-countries-where-ther…
Who mentioned anything about income tax pal? Unless you're a supporter of "benevolent" monarchies or sultanates sharing a small part of a nation's spoils (which actually should belong to the commonwealth, ie everyone) - Brunei's a good example - then you'd understand that taxes of various sorts are necessary to make societies functional. Income tax is just one part of the picture - as we know far too many people and companies don't pay anywhere near their fair share so we have to rely on a range of other taxes to make up shortfalls. I suspect even you might be able to see a common thread or two in the list you've found. Next task is to work out why our situation is different. Are you up to it? I doubt it.
Who mentioned anything about income tax pal?
Um… First I say our government steals far too much in tax and wastes it. Then I say there's other countries that manage without stealing people's income. Then you said they didn't exist. I showed they do. Now you say no-one mentioned taxing income.
It's obvious you're just out for an argument. Cya.
You're not the brightest button in the box as the nonsense about stealing income shows - just one of many ludicrous comments you've made. Here's another lesson in fact for you to absorb. The vast majority of taxpayers in this country receive more back from government in the form of rebates and services than the tax they contribute so your childish "stealing" comment could only be applied to a small number of primarily wealthy Australians. But it's a nonsense not worthy of further comment in any case.
You have trouble with elementary logic as well it seems. My comment regarding taxation was quite clear - you claimed I was talking income tax so I clarified for you. Most people know that the vast majority of developed countries raise money for services and infrastructure via a range of taxes and charges, not just receipts from individual income tax. I assumed wrongly you might also, my mistake.
Have any luck with the common themes from your fabulous no income tax examples and why their models wouldn't work in this country?
You're a classic case of too much opinion and too little knowledge and life experience.
To answer the OP's question, if you dont pay the fine, it gets referred to the SDRO and if you still fail to pay the fine they will suspend your drivers license.
All you need to do is send a letter in with a copy of the fine stating that your religion forbids you from voting (i used the Jedi religion)
It also works for getting off the jury duty roll as well.
I got out of one electoral by saying I was too depressed to vote. They wrote back saying that was accepted but I should try to vote next time.
Voting only encourages the bastards
If you write that you were interstate and unable to attend a polling booth they'll almost certainly accept it (takes care of two of you). Illness is also a valid excuse and doesn't require a Dr's certificate.
Just pay it…I don't know if it's the same in QLD but here in NSW if you don't pay…good luck renewing your rego and licence
No matter who we vote for, our quality of life is going to go down the shits. It'll just be a lot quicker with the Liberals as they rip our healthcare, education, broadband network, social services, public assets, environment and workplace rights to shreds.
More about Abbott's broken promises here: www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/track…
Bet they'll still manage to increase their own income though. But of course they'll put a spin on it - saying their increase isn't much at all because it could have been a lot larger. Guess that's the 'pain everyone will feel' Hockey is currently dribbling on about - a reduction in their increase, LOL!
Tell me why is it that the internet is secure enough to use for internet banking but we cant use it to place a vote in the elections?
To summarise: voting has to be accurate and anonymous and non verifiable.
Let's compare it with Internet transactions:
You can buy multiple items but you can only vote once.
Someone can buy on your behalf but you have to vote for yourself.
Your purchase can painstakingly be traced back to you but your vote is supposed to be secret.
There is no obligation to purchase, but in compulsory voting everybody has to vote, anonymously.
Sure, you are now thinking of all the corner cases where what I said isn't 100% accurate. Good, that will set you on the path of seeing how difficult it is to devise a watertight way to vote over the Internet. If you come up with a good way, maybe you can make a motza.
PS: Yes there are stakeholder or club elections where you can vote over the Internet. But if you look carefully there are less stringent conditions, such as giving up anonymity.
All those reasons are pretty much invalid. Can't be bothered going through it all but as a simple example, it's extremely easy to vote on someone else's behalf now. There's no ID checks. It's also very easy to vote multiple times.
The reason we don't have electronic or inter voting is because it will require a lot of planning and a lot of money to do it and aec seems to be run by dinosaurs and political bs.
Invalid argument; that you can break the law with the current voting system doesn't mean they should implement a system that makes it easier to break, and what's more from anywhere on the Internet. If anything, an Internet system should be more stringent, not less. So your example actually supports what I'm saying, that an Internet system is very hard to get right. :P
Let's simplify this shall we?
Me: An Internet system is very hard to get right.
You: All it takes is enough money, will and competent people.
Now both are conjectures and could both be true, and we are not in disagreement. But neither is logically connected with your first statement:
You: The current system is fallible.
It's also very easy to vote multiple times.
Not in such a way that you could affect an election.
Sorry I didnt get to read all the comments and dont know how did you end up.
It is compulsory to vote which is good but you didnt without legitimate reason, please happily pay the $20 for the sake of this country and stop wasting few more thousands dollars off these people money to chase your cliams
sorry, I didn't read your comment.
I'll take three please. hold the sauce. thanks.
Government budget is going on paper.. It's time to release an app and save some trees
A mate (also in Brisbane) was fined for not voting in the recent federal election.
He did in fact vote.
He sent them a well written email stating that he voted at X booth and questioned them as to what happened to his vote and asked about the electoral process and whether it questions the result in that seat. He never heard back from them.
You could try that approach…
Genius!
just write that english is your 2nd language. you didn't understand and if the electoral commission had provided an interpreter you would've voted. Also mention that your letter was written by someone else. Alternatively ask why the queen as the head of state hasn't voted but hasn't been fined and you would like a royal commission into this as this rort has been going on for a number of years.
I get it that the OP doesn't like compulsory voting.
But speaking as someone in Griffith who wasted his time attending the polling booth, stop trying to get out of the fine. You will only waste more government resources (as able as they are) chasing you up.
Just pay the damn fine so that the twits in government can maybe draw their limited attention spans on something that actually might deserve attention.
Why are people helping OP when most of us do the right thing(I hope), and make the effort on election day?
I think the right to vote is a good thing that should be appreciated and utitlised as people of some other countries have much less rights, including giving their vote.
I think the right to vote is a good thing that should be appreciated and utitlised as people of some other countries have much less rights, including giving their vote.
I don't think voting when you aren't fully informed is a good thing. It's much akin to making the entire populace signing a contract to align their support with a political without reading the terms and conditions (and their policies), without a tick to "I have read everything".
I think there should be information packs distributed to every voter (digitally available) to ensure they know what the hell they're giving their vote to.
Ain't no body got time for that? It's once every 3-4 years! It also does determine what happens to you, your family, friends and all involved parties' education, health, financial situation for the next 3-4 years. Granted things that were from previous parties in power and the newly elected parties cannot change things overnight, it still changes things.
Possibly the same reason (some) people still flash their headlights when there's a cop ahead. Because we're Australian we give people the benefit of doubt. Plus people recognise it shouldn't be a crime. I think it was Martin Luther King Jr. who said something like it's our duty to disobey unjust laws. ;-p
I've not voted in federal or state elections in last 2. I just get my doctor to sign a written statement and send it to them.
Well you won't be doing that anymore. Abbott has plans for people to pay for their GP visits i.e. eliminate or reduce bulk billing - yet again. Whereas getting your name marked off, then walking out without voting - is free.
Well isn't this a perfect example of the bullshit waste that will be removed when people actually have to start contributing to the health system rather than leeching off it for pointless selfish reasons.
Like being ill for example?
Pay the fine. Then give 4 worthy causes $20 each. That $100 well spent to remind you not to waste your vote next time. As an OzBargainer you should know not to knock back a freebie.
If you were interstate, just say "was interstate at the time", send in a copy of your credit card statement on the day of the vote.
Otherwise pay the fine.
Postal vote.
He should have postal voted, but he also has a reasonable excuse.
LOUD NOISES!
If someone posted a deal on Ozbargain saying only $20 to get out voting, I'd plus it.
whoa, what an interesting discussion this has turned out to be over the OP asking help on how to avoid a $20 fine.. :)
If you are going to register to vote, then you are responsible for knowing when to vote.
That's why I haven't registered to vote ;)
At least in local elections I can figureout who to vote as I see and know how they respond to the real issues. Especially in Council elections I know exactly what people are worth getting a vote from me. When it comes to local Council I don't have to think about the actual party that the candidate belongs to when I cast my vote. I personally have listened to many of those politicians and when there was a real issue, I have seen how they react just to fish for more votes and anyone with a brain can easily understand how much is that a genuine effort.
However in Fed elections I am not sure who to vote for because it's more about the policies of the party rather than the individual we vote for. We might send some genuine person but he won't be able to do anything for the country due to the different policies of the party. As I see both the big parties are having many things wrong in their priority list. I know many people who just love Labor saying that they think about poors and give them free money. But if you really think if it's good for the future of the country, it's not good. What Gov should do is to increase the work opportunities and let the people work for their money (unless they have a real reason not to work). The other thing is that no Gov can give free money unless they take it from some one. But the problem is they always go for the easiest target to pay for all these, which is the middle layer of the society who already work hard for their earnings and they don't take a single cent home without paying proper tax. Both parties keep sqeezing them which indirectly demotivate people to work for their living.
On the other hand Liberal is also having their priorities very wrong. Similar to what Labor did to increase their votes by pleasing people who like free money, ALP also picks up a big chunk of the society by trying to please women (~ 50% of society) and offering something that they didn't ask. If the real intention is to increase the contribution from mums for the work force, they could have allowed for full time working mums who have their kids in day care to show the day care fees as a work related expense in their tax return. If they do that so many mums who don't bother working as they are not able to earn enough to pay for day cares will join the work force. Instead they picked a controversial decision to pay a big money for women who are already in work force and earning enough. It's obvious which one bring more females to work and provide justice for working mums.
Then we have small parties like Greens who are always supporting some extreme cases to win the pure votes from ppl with same mindset. It's easy to get some significant votes if you support for terrorists, ppl smuggling, gay, lesb***, pedofiles, etc, etc. You get some guranteed votes and some seats which is what makes their living.
Fed elections really doesn't allow many choices for people and why it's mandatory to vote just for the name of democracy. I'd just go and cancel my vote but unfortunately I can't pass any message that way because if'll go into the bucket of ppl who don't know how to vote. I am happy to be there.
So much wrong with your comment that it's hard to know where to start. I suggest you actually do some reading about each of the parties and any independents, their policies, and the individuals offered by the major parties in your electorate. Most of them are out and about often prior to elections so no excuse whatsoever for not knowing who and what you're voting for.
I understand that's how most people vote by looking at their policy sheets. What I say is that I can't trust a sheet based on my personal experience with some local politicians. I know about 5 local politicians and spoken to them regarding the issues that affected so many people in the area and especially when 99% residents are against some wrong decision by the authority supporting some business in a suspicious way.. so called representatives of the public just slip away and pretend that they don't know anything and still played all the tricks. I even had my front door neighbor who is a local politician said that he is not interested about an issue which affected entire neighborhood and out of all houses over 98% signed a petition (who ever available at the house at that time signed except the ones on holidays) but local authority decided to support the builder by creating obviously incorrect reports. We took so many pictures and videoed the place for over a week as proofs. Still they didn't want to come out from their office to have look on site and refused to talk to neighbors. The guy who first pretended that he doesn't understand the things related to construction and acted like a dumb person came to election next month and won. I checked his leaflets distributed in the election campaign and it had the very reason as one of his interests including the parking issues and town planing. After they gave the approval for the construction and now entire neighborhood is suffering with too much traffic due to excessive construction with no parking and blocked road with parked vehicles and blocked view. I myself witnessed one big accident a couple of months back in addition to many that my neighbors have observed.
It was same with the funding issue for the local Gov school when they demolished the existing buildings and basket ball court showing their plan to reconstruct new buildings and basket ball court. However in middle of the construction the builder packed up and went away saying that the funding was cut. However they gave the full funding for all the private schools and Catholic schools in the area way before and completed some beautiful work in them. The only Gov school in the suburb ended up loosing it's sports facilities they previously had before demolition. The neighbors and school council fought with Gov departments for over year and nothing happened. No one is answerable for anything. Now it's settled that we won't have them back for this school and it's disadvantaged school anyway (the typical mind set) and it'll let to die slowly with kids moving to other schools.
Unless you practically involve in these issues you don't see the ugly faces of the politicians. The policies they show you will have completely opposite of what they do. You didn't convince me on anything asking me to read into their policies. I think it's fair enough for people who know the real faces of politicians stay away from voting.
On the face of it I see another gloom, doom and conspiracy merchant with half-baked information as examples. Perhaps not but you'll have to excuse my cynicism as usually when claims such as yours regarding schools are put under the spotlight they are shown to be paper thin. Hence I take yours with grain of salt also. I'd agree though, it's best that you opt out of voting, thereby allowing the very people you claim don't give a fig about anything to continue to do what they want - supposedly.
Unlike you, politicians and local governments have to balance up a huge range of competing interests when making decisions. Some of us won't be impressed a lot of the time, most of us won't be impressed some of the time, but that's invariably because we don't actually make the effort to get involved and find out the issues. We're content to leave it to others on the assumption that systems generally work pretty well and decisions are usually pretty sound, if not perfect. Sure, "they" don't get it right all the time and thanks to activists and our "democracy" we can be sure that such instances are exposed and even if not repealed, hopefully not repeated.
Withdrawing from the voting process is simply a cop out imo and anyone who does forfeits the right to whinge - unless of course they actually get in and do things to make change themselves, which very few do. If you're one of those then I congratulate you. It's noble, damned hard work, usually unacknowledged, often unrewarded, and as this thread shows, unappreciated by uninformed individuals who always know better.
Me and 2 housemates also received a fine for not voting in the Griffith by election.
We both sent in our genuine reasons that we weren't in the area, and haven't heard back yet (this was a month ago).
"just oblivious it was on"
People this ignorant shouldn't being voting. Disgusting how much some Australians take our democracy for granted.
I was out of the area as it was uni holidays, for maybe 2 weeks. There was 0 indication that there was an election on any time soon. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
13 November 2013 - Rudd announced his resignation
06 January 2014 - By-election date confirmed
08 February 2014 - Election
All of which received massive media attention. You had plenty of warning to get a postal vote in.
SMH.
massive media attention
Well there you go. Silly me for watching the news.
If you're so uninformed to have missed a such a big story over the course of nearly 3 months, then clearly you shouldn't be voting anyway.
some of us are disheartened by the way our democracy is working. the so called choice we have when we put our mark on the ballot paper. when our own members vote along party lines rather than in the interests of the electorate. when independent members, even independent candidates, are ridiculed and attacked or unsupported - there is only so long they can hold up against the major parties. this budget is a good example, the divide between the haves and have nots. there is no choice for most of us. democracy can be a great thing.
Edit: I don't have the energy to debate the budget anymore. Believe whatever soob story you want.
I value my liberties above all
Wow. This topic escalated… Very quickly and derailed.
Just wanted to update and say i went along with the Jehovas Witness line.
Better in your pocket than theirs. :-)
Wanted to update and say i have received no further notices.
Change will never occur period. Whenever a new party pops its head up that might pose a threat, the other two quickly collude together to destroy it.