Speeding Camera Fine - No speed camera sign

No ONE on 30/05/2014 - 17:11
Last edited 31/05/2014 - 15:01

Hello,

I recieved 2 seperate speeding fine few days ago on two seperate event same location. I always travelled via the same road, never saw any camera sign, fixed or mobile camera there.

Then I suddenly start receiving this panelty notice (so far 2) and suspect to receive more.

I have been driving very carefully in the past few months always monitoring my speed limit because I am about to give test for full licence and don't want to incur any demerit point.

I never did any speeding nor i received any speeding fine before. I always check my speedometer for my speed limit.

So, in this scenario, what would you advise me.

First of all, is it permitted in NSW to operate a camera without puting sign.

Secondly, what is the likely hood of taking the matter to court.

Please do not use agressive language. I would respect your opinion on safe road, but to me this is completely revenue making machine.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • 2jzzzz on 30/05/2014 - 17:18
    +70

    I advise not to monitor your speed via the odometer. Unless you have some brilliant mathematical mind which can calculate speed = distance/time.

  • cloudy on 30/05/2014 - 17:19

    "irst of all, is it permitted in NSW to operate a camera without puting sign."

    I would say yes…

    Do they provide a photo of your car and your alleged speed with the legal speed? and Do you disagree with any of the ascertions? if you do, maybe you can take some sort of action by writing in.

  • zelda707 on 30/05/2014 - 17:26
    +6

    First of all, is it permitted in NSW to operate a camera without puting sign.

    I'm assuming they can, there are heaps of speed cameras with no signs in front of them. Signs don't work anyway because just people slow down for a few seconds.

    always monitoring my speed limit

    That's what everyone says…

    I always check my odo meter for my speed limit.

    and that's your problem

    • No ONE on 30/05/2014 - 17:31
      +4

      Could you please explain how checking odometer is a problem. I go with traffic flow and check odometer of speed limit. Why is that wrong.

      • Flying Ace on 30/05/2014 - 17:33
        +19

        They're being pedantic. The odometer is the little dial that measures your distance in kilometres, the speedometer measures your speed.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/05/2014 - 17:35
        +3

        Odometer = distance (km)
        Speedometer = speed (km/h)

        • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 00:08
          +38

          Wat?

        • Waldo000000 on 31/05/2014 - 08:29
          +4

          "When I said odo meter I meant speedometer. I just meant that I look at the meter to compare my current speed to the speed limit."

          FTFY OB3.

        • Tnetennba on 31/05/2014 - 17:58

          Wat?

          He said

          The point of odo meter is the speed meter. It was just meant to look at meter for speed limit.

        • Anth0ny on 01/06/2014 - 10:49
          +2

          Wat?

        • mls82 on 01/06/2014 - 21:23
          +10

          Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

  • SavatteDodo on 30/05/2014 - 17:33
    +3

    Whats the zone limit? Did you drive during school hours??

    • No ONE on 30/05/2014 - 17:38

      It was not a school zone and speed limit was 60 and it was not school hour either.

      • SavatteDodo on 30/05/2014 - 17:40

        How much did you go over?

        • No ONE on 30/05/2014 - 17:43
          -5

          The first said 76, second said 70. The road was a little downhill or steep.

        • timmypete on 30/05/2014 - 17:54
          +13

          How much did you go over?

          Only 16km/h and 10km/h.

        • SavatteDodo on 30/05/2014 - 19:17
          +18

          Mate, i don't think there is a getting out of this one, 16km/h and 10km/h. Why were you speeding so much? Even with a steep road you should use your brakes at all times, not just for stopping.

        • arcticmonkey on 30/05/2014 - 19:28
          +22

          Just pay up - that is very excessive.

          I bet you were tailgating the car in front of you as well?

          I often see cars speeding and being a nuisance with risky behaviour yet we both end up at the traffic lights at the same time.

          You should pay up and follow the rules. Better the fine than killing/injuring someone.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 00:10
          +17

          The first said 76, second said 70. The road was a little downhill or steep.

          Why do you feel the need to state the road is downhill/steep? Are you trying to justify your speeding by saying your car just happened to pick up speed as it went downhill?

          I just find that to be an odd comment to include.

        • ronnknee on 01/06/2014 - 10:02

          Well, was it likely that you went up to those speeds? Because it is actually pretty dangerous to go that fast downhill without controlling your speed with the brakes.

        • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2014 - 11:30
          +9

          Please list the roads you normally use so I can punch them into my GPS under the avoid section. Not knowing what an odometer is, and thinking you were going 60 but actually going 76 doesn't instill confidence.

  • [Deactivated] on 30/05/2014 - 17:33
    +2

    "First of all, is it permitted in NSW to operate a camera without puting sign."
    Speed camera sign, no. Speed limit sign, absolutely. If a sign says 60 and you go 70, there is a good chance of you getting caught!

    "Secondly, what is the likely hood of taking the matter to court."
    You can choose to appeal the fine (check the letter you were sent) or you can bring it to court (with a "small fee")

    But the real issue here is, how much over the speed limit were you going at?

    There's no reasoning for speeding because the next thing you hit could be someone's child, spouse or parent.

  • timmypete on 30/05/2014 - 17:42
    +30

    First of all, is it permitted in NSW to operate a camera without puting sign.

    If I recall correctly, there is no legal obligation for them to do so in NSW.

    Secondly, what is the likely hood of taking the matter to court.

    Very doubtful. Speeding offences are strict liability (they don't need to prove you meant to speed, only that you actually did) and any avenues that attack speedo calibration/policy/enforcement mistakes would need someone well versed in the laws and the technicalities of enforcement and the little things like the difference between a speedometer and odometer… which won't be found by posting on OzB.

    Second, your case would need to hinge on proving that a presumably calibrated instrument was incorrect. Your word versus theirs won't cut it, and it sounds like you don't have anything else more specific (eg. GPS tracklogs, evidence from others of other misapplied infringement notices) to refute this.

    I have been driving very carefully in the past few months always monitoring my speed limit because I am about to give test for full licence and don't want to incur any demerit point.

    I never did any speeding nor i received any speeding fine before. I always check my odo meter for my speed limit.

    You almost certainly weren't driving carefully enough. Blaming the system for not having signs out while also admitting you weren't paying enough attention to see the cameras in the first place (and admit you "suspect to receive more") is an issue.

    Please do not use agressive language. I would respect your opinion on safe road, but to me this is completely revenue making machine.

    With whatever respect is due, asking people not to act aggressively when you advocate keying cars as a method for dispute resolution is more than a tad hypocritical. On the latter point I agree that there are legitimate questions as to why governments rely so much on camera revenue, but if you don't speed you won't get fined and this in no way absolves you of your responsibilities.

  • timmypete on 30/05/2014 - 18:10
    +13

    Righto.

    On the point of me being reckless with the words you've used in this post, You've also said you "go with traffic flow and check odometer of speed limit" and that you've "been driving very carefully in the past few months always monitoring my speed limit".

    These seem inconsistent. If you go with the flow of traffic, you'll often end up speeding a bit. Going with the flow is not an accurate method of speed control. You also have freely admitted that the tickets were 10km/h and 16km/h over the limit and admit that you expect more tickets. How on earth can this be construed as careful?

    You've so far blamed the lack of signs, revenue raising, and implicitly the calibration of your vehicle speedo (If you are still going to maintain that you've religiously followed it, how on earth did you miss a 26% discrepancy?). You've forgotten the most obvious issue here: you. Revenue raising and signage might be a moral (but legally invalid) excuse for less than 5km/h but certainly not 15+ km/h. This simply comes down to attentiveness.

      • timmypete on 30/05/2014 - 18:21
        +10

        If you genuinely believe you were only going 65km/h and not the 76km/h alleged then I'd get your car looked at promtly to make sure the gauges are well calibrated. If they are, lawyer up and fight the charge as the camera may be wrong. If not, pay the fines.

        Even still, you now say you may have been doing 65km/h. In a 60km/h zone. This isn't careful. Pay the fines.

      • juventino on 30/05/2014 - 19:36

        are your eyes fixed on the speedometer ALL THE TIME ? You might have been driving 70 or 76 km/hr when you took your eyes off the speedometer. It's only 10 km or 16 km/hr more. Sometimes we don't notice this. Perhaps you drove at this speed for less than 5 seconds and the camera caught you

      • FirstNameLastName on 30/05/2014 - 20:43
        +1

        Hi Oz Bargain,

        My friend got a couple of fines similar to yours.
        He had his speedometer tested and found there was an issue with its accuracy.

        He took the test results to court, and they threw the fines out.
        It can depend on how nice your magistrate is though.

        let us know the results if you try this too :)

        • Kenb0 on 01/06/2014 - 16:19

          Why would issues with the accuracy of his speedometer have any bearing on whether or not the fine was valid? If his speedometer is off and not showing his correct speed, that's his responsibility. By that logic, if I wanted to speed, all I'd need to do is make sure my speedometer isn't accurate and then go hooning around, then when I get a ticket, prove there was an issue with the accuracy of my speedometer?? That makes no sense. Something's missing from the story.

          Unless you mean there was an issue with the accuracy of the speed camera, but where would you get test results for a speed camera?

        • stralya on 01/06/2014 - 17:19
          +4

          The speedo inaccuracy argument won't work for everyone. It's only if you have a clean driving (and criminal) record. The magistrates are sympathetic if they believe it was a genuine error. Also, they will only waive the fines. The demerit points will stay on your record until they expire.

    • cwongtech on 31/05/2014 - 00:57
      +5

      These seem inconsistent. If you go with the flow of traffic, you'll often end up speeding a bit. Going with the flow is not an accurate method of speed control.

      I have to agree with this.
      Driving at speed limit for me, means starting in front of the pack at the lights, and 2 minutes later, there's a whole clump of cars that were previously behind me.. and now I'm behind everyone.
      But what can you do, I'm a law abiding citizen on a P2 license.

      Can't wait until there are self-driving cars, our transport would be immensely more efficient, faster, less traffic jams and not to mention.. safer.

      • zzzsianzzz on 31/05/2014 - 22:44

        are you a road hog driving at speed limit in the extreme right "overtaking" lane on 3-5 lanes roads during peak hour traffic?
        I have also seen a number of Ps above speed limit driving faster than a full license driver?

        edit: i have also seen Ps on their max speed limits (90/100) clogging up traffic themselves driving on middle and extreme right side on a 3 lane road in a 100/110 zone.

        • victorwilson on 31/05/2014 - 23:14
          +3

          ACT provisional drivers can drive at the posted limit in most (if not all) other states. That could explain why you have seen P platers driving faster than full licence drivers who may be driving under the limit.

          As an ACT P plater, I have been pulled over by a cop using a radar gun on the Hume Highway, although I was travelling at 110km/h and most other fully licenced drivers were speeding.

        • zzzsianzzz on 01/06/2014 - 05:24

          In NSW, from memory, those with NSW licenses, the red Ps are max of 90 and green Ps are max of 100, they are legally tied to the limits, whichever is lower in speed limits, road speed limit vs their own license restricted speed limit. if in a 110 km/h zone, green Ps are legally allowed to drive at 100km/h and reds are suppose to do 90km/h on those road, seeing them hogging on all the lanes and causing traffic jams behind, and not taking the most left lane is just plain road hogging. So if they do exceed their legal limits and got caught by police or speed cameras, their license are most likely suspended as the Ps don't have much points to burn, at max 3 demerit points for reds, and 6 demerit points while in green Ps i think.

          i saw green Ps zooming at about 120-130 km/h in 100km/h zone. I can't imagine if those people have passed their full license test in NSW. They will have higher tendency of driving their car like a fighter jet unless they quit speeding.

          the cops tend to get those on Ps first before getting those on full license. their job is to remove people from the road that are more likely to injure/kill others. if you're on your Ps and zooming past the road with full licenses, you will be the most obvious target among those over speed limit in a split second decision of who to pull over. Ps are expected not to speed during that time of probation anyway.

        • cwongtech on 01/06/2014 - 15:12
          +2

          are you a road hog driving at speed limit in the extreme right "overtaking" lane on 3-5 lanes roads during peak hour traffic?

          Nope. Btw, during peak hour traffic - usually all lanes are slower than the speed limit.. due to traffic.

          I have also seen a number of Ps above speed limit driving faster than a full license driver?

          Yeah me too, they're the ones that have a high chance of joining the statistics under P plater accidents. Nowadays, I just drive at the speed limit and be late to whatever, I'd rather be
          late, enjoy one or two more songs, than being slugged with ridiculous massive speeding fines.

          Personally, I don't believe fluctuating from the posted speed limit and speed limit + 5km/h will immediately cause accidents but hey, I will be below the speed limit.. because I don't want to get slugged by fines.

          edit: i have also seen Ps on their max speed limits (90/100) clogging up traffic themselves driving on middle and extreme right side on a 3 lane road in a 100/110 zone.

          Good for you, I don't drive in highways, sounds like you're one of those in the right 'overtaking' lane all the time being blocked by P platers driving in the wrong lane but to their limit :p

          I've always wondered though, what is the allowed legal speed limit in the overtaking lane?

          However, I do try to avoid other cars when possible.. i.e. at night if there's only a few cars on the road, I will switch lanes to be at least one lane away from other cars.
          Why? You never know if they're texting or drink driving. A bit over the top? Well, I'm not obstructing traffic (no one behind me.. I'm at the speed limit unlike 80% of other drivers on the road), and it's just a small precaution on my side.

        • stralya on 01/06/2014 - 17:22
          +1

          I've always wondered though, what is the allowed legal speed limit in the overtaking lane?

          It is the same as the speed limit on that section of road. There is no speed limit difference between the lanes.

        • zzzsianzzz on 01/06/2014 - 20:13

          There is usually a part after the busy areas where the traffic resumes back to normal during peak hour traffic.

          i am usually in the middle, had to move right to overtake the Ps in the middle as they are driving more than 5km/h-10km/h below speed limit and almost every car behind them are travelling at speed limit had to slow down because of them hogging on the middle lane instead of the left lane, and they too also wonder why everyone overtakes them too. as they are in the middle :P

          if i'm on the right, i wouldn't see cars zooming past me, would I? :) i would be zooming past them instead.. lol..

  • [Deactivated] on 30/05/2014 - 19:29
    +8

    "Then I suddenly start receiving this panelty notice (so far 2) and suspect to receive more."

    That guilty feeling that you feel you haven't been obeying the speed limit. And then you blame them for not putting up big flashy signs to tell you to slow down.

    • timmypete on 30/05/2014 - 20:07
      +5

      As an ex-Victorian I'm continually amazed by how whiney ACT/NSW drivers get about signs and speed cameras. Victorian mobile units are admittedly a bit of a challenge to spot, yet in the other states you complain about not enough signs before extremely conspicuous large vans by the road with cameras and reflective tape.

      • Baysew on 31/05/2014 - 12:10
        +1

        Yes Victoria is much tougher. Pretty soon they will crush you car on the spot.

        • diddy50 on 31/05/2014 - 13:07
          +13

          Whilst you are still in them!

      • Serapis on 01/06/2014 - 16:21

        Seen one during Easter break along Hume Hwy, first sign blocked by grass, second just under the rear tyres of the van. Van was an unmarked white van with all windows blacked out.

        I have a video of it, caught it on the dash cam.

  • p1 ama on 30/05/2014 - 20:01
    +11

    You're focusing on the wrong things, it doesn't really matter where the camera is or whether you were caught by a camera, a mobile camera or a police officer on the side of the road.

    The question is whether you were speeding.

    If you were, accept the fine and pay up, learn your lesson, move on.

    If you weren't and you genuinely believe you were travelling at the right speed, then get your speedo calibrated…etc. and take it to court.

    That's the two options you have.

  • DEvok on 30/05/2014 - 20:02
    +1

    From what I do know before the speed limited was changed due to gps popularity, going at 10km max was ok, depending on the police who gunning you and many factors. now it has been changed to 5km, as the revenue for speed cams have decreased over the years from cause of GPS.

    Safest bet is to stay on the exact speed from what the signs say. You always slow down where cops are about 10km lower than speed limit or risk been pulled over for a license check.

    Speed cams are rarly faulty, if you believe tgere is a problem, you can take it up to court, but not worth it as you spend more.

    • applecracle on 31/05/2014 - 01:40
      +4

      "slow down where cops are about 10km lower than speed limit or risk been pulled over for a license check."

      So you're one of those annoying people who slow down to 10kms below the limit when there is a cop or a speed camera.

      COP: Do you know why I pulled you over?
      Driver: No Sir. I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong
      Cop: Exactly… It's because you were doing the speed limit… You naughty naughty boy.

      • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 02:32
        +3

        Some speedos can be off by a few k's.
        Some cops pull people over for doing even 2km/h over the limit.

        It's not so absurd to err on the safe side and slow down 5 or so k's below the limit when you know there's a camera or cop around. Call it annoying, but as long as I'm not braking suddenly or hogging the outside lane doing well below the limit, then tough :P

        • Serapis on 01/06/2014 - 16:23
          +3

          For some reason, people don't realize speed LIMIT is the maximum you can go on the road. They take it as the recommended speed…

          Should actually be going UNDER the limit, not as close to it as possible.

  • bod311 on 30/05/2014 - 20:19
    +6

    I haven't commented on here for a while but Ozbargain is absolutely terrible to come to for legal advice. If you have the time it may be worth your while going to court.

    I would strongly recommend against arguing that you weren't speeding, to prove this you will need evidence that the speed detection device wasn't working.

    Plea guilty and ask for a s10 on one or more of the offences. Depending on the dates of the offences you could make an argument that you didn't have a chance to correct your offending and seek leniency on subsequent offences.

    I assume you are on a P2 license and this would mean losing your license so it may be worth taking a roll of the dice here taking it to court.

    If your license is that important to you and you can't live/work without it maybe talk to a solicitor.

    Sorry you have received little in the way of assistance so far.

    P.S. To avoid further fines, if you genuinely believe your speedo differs from the speed camera, have you got larger aftermarket wheels or similar modifications made to your car as these can significantly alter the accuracy of speedometers.

    • No ONE on 30/05/2014 - 20:39
      -1

      Thanks for your input. The difference between fine were four days. Could you please give me a link for pled guilty s10 leniency. I would love to look into it.

      In regards to aftermmarket wheels or modification, there is none. I would also do a speed collabration check with mechanic as well.

      • p1 ama on 30/05/2014 - 21:46
        +5

        You don't need to do a speed calibration with a mechanic. Do you have a GPS? If not, just use your phone, they're pretty accurate, go travel at 60km/h on your speedo and see what your GPS unit says, if it says you're travelling at 74km/h then you might have a case on your hands.

        But seriously though, if your speedo is like 25% out of calibration and you haven't realised, you can't drive and shouldn't be on the road.

        The only two ways you can get booked for doing 74km/h in a 60km/h zone is if you were speeding or the camera was faulty. If it were something like 65km/h, then maybe you could claim speedo inaccuracy.

      • jaypehm on 30/05/2014 - 21:48
        +6

        I believe he means s10 of the Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act 1999 (NSW) where you plead with the magistrate to exercise a discretion to dismiss your second charge. Considering they are weeks apart, that might prove to be a bit difficult but who knows.

        If it is a fixed camera, those have a margin of error of about 2% and are already factored into the alleged speed you are charged with. The margin of error on mobile camera cannot be much more.

        Plus, the speedometers on most (stock) cars are calibrated to display a speed that is higher than what the car is actually travelling at (ie speedo is showing 60kph but in reality travelling at 55kph). If the alleged speed you are charged with is 76kph and 70kph respectively in a 60kph zone, I do not dare imagine what your speedo would read assuming your car is fully unmodified and there are no calibration issues.

  • NancyCat on 30/05/2014 - 20:40
    +12

    You're caught not once, but twice … maybe more. Doing the wrong thing (16 over!!!), at the same spot. Are you seriously thinking there's a way out?!

  • Kevan2 on 30/05/2014 - 22:16

    I am about to give test for full licence and don't want to incur any demerit point.

    Not sure what you mean by this. Different state. P plater have smaller demerit points holding to loose licence.

    Is the first licence holdings or replacement/regeneration of an earlier holding.

    Both scenarios have different challenges.

  • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 00:20
    +10

    OP has already admitted this:

    That's my doubt. I have not been going over 64-5. 65 was the maximum i have been going. It was always travel to Uni. The camera does not exist at that area. It could have been taken with mobile camera.

    65 is the maximum he's been going, yet it's a 60 zone.

    If he's comfortable driving 5km/h over the limit, I highly doubt he's careful enough to not go any higher, especially when it's a familiar route which he believed had no speed cameras.

    IMO, your attitude is pretty terrible for a new driver. Try accepting the fact that you got busted for speeding because you allow yourself to speed, and pay the fines. I suspect that nothing is wrong with your speedometer.

    FWIW - don't take my reply as a holier-than-thou attack. No driver is perfect or sticks to the road rules 100% of the time. I sometimes speed 5-7km/h over the limit in familiar areas where I know there are no cameras or cops, but I know the risks I'm taking and would not try to worm out of a fine if I got caught.

    I suggest you try and curb any rule-bending habits sooner rather than later, because they are tough habits to break if you keep doing them (ie. driving a few km/h over the limit all the time).

    • diddy50 on 31/05/2014 - 13:11
      +3

      Yeah I know, if this is how he acts BEFORE he gets his licence, imagine how he will be later! Ha ha

      Omg the system is to blame, revenue raising, the police are corrupt….Etc etc etc.

  • MementoMori on 31/05/2014 - 00:35

    Dude, I know where you are going and you may have something.

    Yes, you stuffed up, don't speed. But, if you have been pinged by the same camera a second time before you even got a letter for the first they should show some leniency. The concept is you didn't have a chance to correct or learn from your mistake.

    Write a letter, I reckon you'll get off the second one. This happened to my brother.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 00:45

      By all means, he can give it a go by writing a letter for leniency, but it might be tricky trying to explain several speeding fines in the same area without trying to make an excuse for it.

      Call my cynical but I get the feeling they'll knock him back if he tries to claim that he didn't know he was routinely speeding rather significantly over the limit (which is what you'd be essentially saying by "you didn't have a chance to correct or learn from your mistake" due to receiving all the fines at once).

      • MementoMori on 01/06/2014 - 10:39

        Fwiw My post isn't speculation

    • juventino on 31/05/2014 - 03:02
      +15

      His English is not perfect, with some spelling and grammatical errors to account for. But calling it 'very bad' is a little bit too much. Everyone understood what he's trying to say anyway.

      Stop being a grammar Nazi, especially in a forum. Besides, your English isn't top notch either ( neither is mine ), judging from various errors you committed with your two lines of comments.

    • diddy50 on 31/05/2014 - 13:13
      +5

      Dude, low blow. He is trying. Obviously not from Australia but Ya know… Come on be nice.

      Attack his speeding and for not taking responsibility for speeding. Not him personally.

  • gccmelb on 31/05/2014 - 03:01
    +1

    The Op won't be driving his Courier van anytime some.

  • t_c on 31/05/2014 - 06:07

    Revenue has got to come from somewhere. Pay up and next time you need a cop you can pat him on the back telling him how you helped put his kids through college and most importantly that he now owes you one.

    • andy19363 on 31/05/2014 - 08:37
      +2

      you can pat him on the back telling him how you helped put his kids through college

      yep…. that's exactly how it works….. each fine goes to the individual officer who writes the ticket….. none of it goes to the hospitals who care for those people who like to try and climb trees in their cars…..

      • Karsta on 31/05/2014 - 08:42
        -2

        Are you serious?

    • timmypete on 31/05/2014 - 14:37
      +4

      Leaving aside the arguments about where the money goes: speeding tickets, cigarette excises, vanity plates and lotto ticket levies are all essentially "voluntary taxes".

      Yes, it isn't much fun to pay them, but the Ozbargainer in me is glad that I'm not paying even more income tax or fuel excise in order to cover the bottom line that others are essentially subsidising on my behalf through their behaviour.

      This line of thinking is a little more problematic when it comes to gambling and addiction, but back to speeding it's an entirely avoidable "tax" that also has the policy merit of discouraging behaviour that has consequently costly effects on the health budget.

  • Karsta on 31/05/2014 - 08:29
    +2

    Ever heard of Cruise Control? Please keep Eyes on the road life is just too short. Stay Safe!

    • diddy50 on 31/05/2014 - 13:14
      +4

      Cruise control is not very good for 60 k speed areas. Best used for long distance high speed freeway driving.

      • timmypete on 31/05/2014 - 14:39
        +2

        Agreed, but if this bloke genuinely doesn't notice a 16km/h overshoot he needs all the help he can get.

        (wouldn't have helped on the hill much here, but might have helped elsewhere)

  • netsurfer on 31/05/2014 - 10:58
    +1

    I found NSW generally have the warning sign quite close to the actual speed camera whereas in VIC, the speed camera warning signs could be on the other side of the road or 4-5 Km before the actual speed camera in freeways/highways.

    My mate said this to me when I whinged about speed cameras and speeding tickets: just don't speed. He never gets a speeding ticket or worry about speed cameras because he does not speed.

  • T1OOO on 31/05/2014 - 11:20
    +5

    That's nuts. I can tell when my bro drives above 63km/h an always look over at the speedo. Driving at 16km over. Learn ur lesson. Be a man about it. Sheesh the nerve of some people.

  • Woof on 31/05/2014 - 11:46
    +5

    I got done speeding when on my green Ps and did the test for my full licence before paying the fine. Demerit points were taken from black licence when fine was paid.
    Lovely lady at the RTA told me of this loophole, hopefully it can apply to you too?

    • timmypete on 01/06/2014 - 10:53

      ^^^ Ignore s10 and everything else mentioned thus far. This is probably the best tip for the OP in the entire thread.

  • oldrocker on 31/05/2014 - 12:35
    +2

    Why should you expect to see warning signs of speed cameras? Because otherwise you speed? If you obey the speed limit and allow for speedometer (not odometer) errors and whatever excuses you can concoct, then you would not be in trouble. It's definitely not a revenue grabber. If by fining you $xxx a single life is saved, then it's worthwhile. Wise up and don't speed at all times, not just when you see a sign.

  • No ONE on 31/05/2014 - 15:13
    -4

    Thanks for your critics and argument, they are reasonable. I'm not trying to blame my speeding over revenue making machine. What I did blame is for no sign. They operate cameras on high risk roads/street/highways and sign should be displaced according to my view. What's the point of speed camera, revenue/safety?
    If safety, then people will be more cautious on such area where it is deemed to be high risk roads when they see signs. Reducing the accident overall and not leaving the drivers in the dark whilst they can still make revenue.
    Sometimes they operate camera where it is not necassary, but only to make revenue. When they don't make enough revenue, they just remove it and placed it somewhere else to make up their pockets.

    • zelda707 on 31/05/2014 - 15:39
      +6

      They operate cameras on high risk roads/street/highways and sign should be displaced according to my view

      Why? They are aren't putting drivers in danger

      What's the point of speed camera, revenue/safety?

      To stop people from speeding

    • Ughhh on 31/05/2014 - 15:54
      +13

      Op you sound like a child who needs constant supervision in order to behave and follow rules. If you don't speed, then they don't make money, it's all in your hands.

      You should be following speed limit regardless if there are speed cameras or not.

      Do you want a gold star sticker every time you keep under the speed limit?

    • NancyCat on 31/05/2014 - 17:05
      +2

      cameras on high risk roads/street/highways and sign should be displaced

      All roads are high risk if you speed.

      There are many speed signs on the road that tell you the speed limit; in your case the sign says 60. And you did waaayy over 60 (16 over). And you are blaming the government took a picture of you and not telling you beforehand?

      The government has to make revenue somehow, if they can get money out of people breaking the law, then why not?

    • [Deactivated] on 31/05/2014 - 18:35
      +8

      I'm not trying to blame my speeding over revenue making machine. What I did blame is for no sign.

      So a sign telling you of a speed camera will slow you down, but multiple signs telling you the speed limit on that road will not slow you down?

      Okie dokie…….

      o_O

    • timmypete on 31/05/2014 - 19:33
      +4

      If safety, then people will be more cautious on such area where it is deemed to be high risk roads when they see signs.

      You are missing the point buddy: if you are over the limit, you've broken the law. Your fixation on signs smacks of a bizarre sense of entitlement.

      Sometimes they operate camera where it is not necassary,

      See above. Victoria has undercover mobile units on the logic that people behave more appropriately if they feel they can get caught anywhere. While it might be a modern panopticon, it works, and there is no reason for you to feel entitled to speed where you don't think there are cameras.

      Full disclosure: I once was caught a similar amount over the speed limit. I sure wasn't happy about it, but I did the crime and paid the fine. It hurt: I was a student on P plates and copped enough demerit points that I couldn't get pulled over again without losing my licence.

      Guess what? It forced me to be a better driver. I haven't got a speeding fine in the eight years since, and if I do get one for not paying enough attention, I sure as hell won't be blaming anyone but me.

    • p1 ama on 31/05/2014 - 21:46
      +6

      It's irrelevant, you could have been caught by an officer on the side of the road for all that matters.

      The fact is you exceeded the speed limit.

      Whether it was a fixed camera, an officer on the side of the road or any other speed detecting device is irrelevant. Whether the road is high risk is irrelevant. Whether there is a sign is irrelevant. Whether they are doing it to make revenue is irrelevant. Whether they want to put the camera in a particular location is irrelevant. Whether they want to reduce accidents is irrelevant. Whether they want to leave you in the dark is irrelevant.

      You. Broke. The. Law. Accept. It.

      What you're saying is, "Oh, I committed murder and was caught by CCTV, but there wasn't a sign saying there's CCTV here, if there was, I wouldn't have killed him." Ridiculous argument right?

      • No ONE on 31/05/2014 - 22:24
        -7

        Yes, I broke the law. But your murder example is pointless and irrelevant to the matter.

        • p1 ama on 31/05/2014 - 22:56
          +3

          No it's not, it's the exact same argument?

        • rolypoly on 01/06/2014 - 12:24
          +3

          Yes, I broke the law.

          You agree you broke the law. That really is all there is to it. Your case is not in a legal grey area.

          The point is safety and revenue but the money they make from it goes back into safety (so they say, but I don't see why not).

          They can place cameras with signs on more dangerous sections of roads they specifically want people to slow down. They can also place cameras without signs elsewhere so that people that may speed will be reluctant to speed in general.

          When you mention them making revenue, to me it just sounds like you are defending other speeders. The speed limits in NSW are reasonable and they apply to everyone from L platers to Mark Webber. And the fine for 10 km/h over is 6 hours of minimum wage pay and 15 hours pay for 20 km/h over. It all seems fair.

          I do wish you had received the first fine before the second time speeding though. It would have hopefully prevented you from losing your licence and speeding again on any road.

          If you agree to stop speeding after this then you become a small statistic in proving that unmarked speed cameras stop people speeding and that these cameras do improve safety. If you choose to continue speeding then it is probably best not to mention it here.

  • chuie on 31/05/2014 - 17:48

    I don't understand why this person is being negged when he/she's been polite. Who cares if op is too wordy.

    I also think people are being too harsh on the op for probably speeding. If it was in city traffic sure, but if it was a wide open road on a downhill then 70-76 is nothing. I would even go as far as to say it is safe so long as the driver gives enough distance to stop in time, if there is traffic ahead.

    • highdealer on 31/05/2014 - 19:20
      +3

      This is the same attitude that got pedestrian killed on our road the past few weeks. On a wide open road going down hill, going at a higher speed is many time more dangerous as going at the speed limit. It will take a lot more force to stop a car going at 70km/hr down a hill then it will take to stop a car going at 70km/hr on even road.

      • No ONE on 31/05/2014 - 22:47
        -5

        Why did pedestrian got killed on the road? Is it because road rule didn't apply to them.
        Pedestrian will get killed on the road regardless of driver speeding, if pedestrian don't respect road rule.

        Given the same pedestrian road kill example, who do blame? Drivers who speed, or pedestrian who got itself killed on road by breaking the road rule?
        If pedestrian is to blame for breaking the law, then in my case I would accept I broke the rule and got fine.

        If driver is to blame who killed the non-law abiding pedestrian, then I would accept that in my case that camera is a revenue making machine.

        Note: I'm not in the opinion of road kill pedestrian. I do blame the drivers even if pedestrian is in fault. The above example is just an argument and that does not form my opinion that pedestrians are to blame unless if it is a suicide .

        • [Deactivated] on 01/06/2014 - 00:59
          +1

          Why did pedestrian got killed on the road? Is it because road rule didn't apply to them.
          Pedestrian will get killed on the road regardless of driver speeding, if pedestrian don't respect road rule.

          Given the same pedestrian road kill example, who do blame? Drivers who speed, or pedestrian who got itself killed on road by breaking the road rule?

          You'd still land yourself in a lot of trouble if you struck a jaywalking pedestrian while driving over the speed limit.

          A few k's difference in the speed you're doing can change whether that person walks away with minor injuries or dies on the spot.

          Out of curiosity, do you stick to the 40km/h speed limit in school zones (that don't have cameras)?

        • No ONE on 01/06/2014 - 01:28

          Like i said, I'm all in favour of pedestrian. I just made an example out of that. I don't go over limit and I do stick below 40 km for 40 area. This one was the only place of mistake. I did travel between the days of getting fine for same location, but did not received any. It's not like I only slow down where camera are. I always drive within limit, but this one was one of those unfortunate circumstance. Please don't think that I'm a menace driver, mistakes can happen before you realise it.

        • No ONE on 01/06/2014 - 02:05

          Believe it or not, i always slow down below 5k from the speed limit on 60 km zone or above when I see pedestrain walking by onside of tge road. Especially those one that walks nearby or stand at the edge of the road, freaks me because some of them might be bored of their life n jump infront of the car.

        • NancyCat on 01/06/2014 - 10:11
          +3

          If you are a responsible driver that you said you are, then do what any responsible driver would do in this situation: pay the fine and move on!
          Stop finding excuse, stop blaming others, and stop telling us how good you are.

        • hahaboy on 01/06/2014 - 14:47
          -1

          u wot m8?

        • blitz on 01/06/2014 - 17:37
          +10

          Pedestrian will get killed on the road regardless of driver speeding, if pedestrian don't respect road rule

          God I can't believe you actually have a licence to be on the road with other people. Even the most basic common sense thinking will tell you that this is wrong.

          You shouldn't be driving. I'm happy you were caught. I hope you get caught a lot more.

  • shortgum on 31/05/2014 - 18:05
    +7

    just man up admit the fines and paid up

  • dracoknight92 on 31/05/2014 - 20:04

    Mind telling us what road were you travelling on?

  • Moots on 31/05/2014 - 20:23
    +2

    I suddenly start receiving this panelty notice (so far 2) and suspect to receive more.

    I have been driving very carefully in the past few months always monitoring my speed limit because I am about to give test for full licence

    Seriously? your a joke…

  • crysomemore on 31/05/2014 - 20:30
    +3

    I hope you lose your license. You admit to only speeding a little bit but get caught going too fast and your upset and want a free pass? (profanity) like you cause accidents and kill people. You do not deserve the privilege and responsibility of having a license.

    • No ONE on 31/05/2014 - 20:57
      -8

      You're entilted to your opion as I'm. I will certainly loss my licence. Saying "you don't deserve" is may be too much for what I done. I neither killed anyone not had any accident in the last 5 years of my licence. You are being too paranoid about the situation. I neither did drink drive nor drug racing. Think you are perfect, well you are not. You are a human race not alien, and human makes mistakes and alien I'm not sure them.

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