Suggestion (and gripe) reward contributors to the site over non-contributors

ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 19:04
Last edited 24/06/2014 - 20:08 by 1 other user

I was thinking about a suggestion for a slight tweak to the site.

I have posted a few deals that have sold out quickly recently and was thinking it was a shame that some people missed out. Especially people who contribute to this site more than your average troll, made worse by the fact that you can see certain regular painful commenters have taken advantage of it quickly.

I would rather that regular quality contributors have a chance at some deals before the thankless hoards (yes, I'm very much generalising, any maybe i'm not being fair but it's how i feel sometimes) dive in and purchase all the stock.

Maybe a solution would be:

  • To have something like the firehose on slashdot.
  • A timer where the deal is incrementally published:
    • 0-10min everyone with certain post / + statistics
    • 10-20min only those logged in
    • >20min everyone

Maybe give the OP a checkbox where they can decide if they want the deal to be "exclusive" or "slow release" and only go to posters with a certain post/+ stats.
Posters could select this where the stock levels are known or likely to be low, or for price erros.

negatives from something like this:

  • Managing duplicate posts, how would a new post on somehting that can only be seen by contributors be managed?
  • Flood of useless deals from people trying to get their stats up?
  • Big system change

Keen to know what people think. esp if you've done a few posts, would this encourage you to find more deals?
Yes it's a change from first-in-best-dressed, but i think that's a great thing, esp if contributors are busy contributing!

Poll has been removed by request.

Site Discussion

Comments

  • ozhunter on 24/06/2014 - 19:14
    +5

    A timer where the deal is incrementally published:
    0-10min everyone with certain post / + statistics
    10-20min only those logged in
    20min everyone

    Everyone would just post anything and everything so they could see the all the deals.(eg.individual items from the Woolworths/Coles catalogue)

    • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 19:16
      +1

      I was wondering about that, would there be a drop in the overall quality of deals and more work for mods?

      this would also make it hard to sort the treasure from the trash, so to speak. As the new deals could be flooded with crap.

      • ozhunter on 24/06/2014 - 19:20
        +4

        would there be a drop in the overall quality of deals and more work for mods?

        There would be a ton of duplicates for sure. Dicksmith has a sale going on every other day and today alone it has had 13 deals posted.

        • donga100 on 24/06/2014 - 19:43
          +4

          Even more duplicates when people post deals that were already posted but they just couldn't see them themselves.

  • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 19:19
    -1

    Or I was thinking there could be a twist on it.

    You could have user lists, this way i could manage a sh*t list of people who generally post useless crap or post silly questions and assumptions before even reading the deal. People on that list don't see the deal, or see it after a set period of time… or when it becomes sold out :)

    • ozhunter on 24/06/2014 - 19:23
      +6

      You'll never get rid of the "dumb" people on the internet. They could easily just make a new account separated from their "troll/joking" account

      • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 19:27
        +1

        this is true. Don't want to get rid of them, just want to make sure that the people who I appreciate, the ones who contribute and make this site great, are the ones that have the best chance at taking advantage of any deals that I post.

        • Speckled Jim on 25/06/2014 - 10:21
          +5

          Why not just PM the great deal to those "who you appreciate"?
          Then you can delay posting the deal or not at all.

  • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 19:57

    Very early results on the poll: 4 against, 3 for.

    I wonder what it would look like if you applied a contributor badge only filter to it? or a >20 posts with 15 votes?

  • spychiatrist on 24/06/2014 - 20:03
    +3

    Been thinking about something similar: all registered users who are logged in get first dibs on all deals. After 30 mins, the deal will be visible to everyone, including guests.

  • issh on 24/06/2014 - 20:52
    +14

    This has been discussed before. Pretty sure Scotty objected to it due to the fact that this is a community website.

    • Davo1111 on 24/06/2014 - 20:53

      *many times before

    • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 20:57

      I figured it would have been, but I had a troll through and couldn't find anything.

      anywho, what you you think about the idea?

  • Cheeper on 24/06/2014 - 21:33
    +7

    Are you suggesting that there should be an OZB "Elite" group that has access to posts prior to the commoners?
    Sounds all so rather British old chap! :-)

    • ChickenTalon on 24/06/2014 - 21:41

      now listen ‘ere young lad, that's precicely what I'm suggesting!

      Yes, i'm proposing giving a slight advantage to those who contribute when it comes to bargains that can sell out fast.

  • Geewhizz on 25/06/2014 - 07:58
    +1

    You'd probably find many of the site's 'quality contributors' work and don't have access to the site 24/7, so are unlikely to benefit greatly from something like this that would take a lot of effort to implement.

    • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 14:56

      yeah, I guess i was thinking that something like this would encourage more people to contribute to the site in a constructive way.

      This would have more people out there finding deals. And hopefully this would lead to better deals. (although it could lead to more crap posted)

  • tonka on 25/06/2014 - 10:58

    I think it reasonable for people to have a certain status to vote a deal, or at least neg it. Like a peer review system.

    Definately should be an option to limit the viewing of a post to persons logged in.
    This would also encourage participation.

    • Davo1111 on 25/06/2014 - 15:27
      +2

      I think it reasonable for people to have a certain status to vote a deal, or at least neg it. Like a peer review system.

      Fairly sure that already exists. L and P plate users have limited voting and commenting abilities.

      Definately should be an option to limit the viewing of a post to persons logged in. This would also encourage participation.

      Not sure it would. When i visit sites that hide text through logins, it pisses me off and i wouldn't bother with that site. Perfect example expert exchange or instructables pro membership

      This site is supposed to be a community

      • tonka on 26/06/2014 - 00:53

        I like the community concept. I just think that true community members would be registered.

        Are tourists really part of a community.

        You can see it on so many deals 100 votes and 1000 visits.
        Someone puts up a one off code and it's gone without the courtesy of letting the next guy know.

        I have thought that at least the commentary should be hidden from the voyeurs.

  • daveozsydney on 25/06/2014 - 14:07

    You could just charge people for 'elite' access and posts that are highly regarded are voted and the votes get points but really is it worth all the hassle of implementing such a system. The KISS principle generally works quite well in most areas of life.

    • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 15:40

      don't think it's a great idea to charge for elite access, point isn't really to make money for OzB. Just to give people who contribute a better chance at taking advantage of some deals.

      But yes, i think the implementation of such a system wouldn't be easy.

  • c0balt on 25/06/2014 - 15:36
    +27

    Sounds to me like a horrible idea and I would vote against those changes. They seem elitist and rewarding to those with too much time on their hands rather than opportunistic bargains. I'm a prolific commenter and I don't think I should have any more access to a deal than a casual who happens to load up this site once in a while. First come best dressed and leave it at that please.

    I think the current system is great but could use a few tweaks. I think 5 negs a day for posts is a little low and that the way people reply to threads could be better, as at the moment after 3-4 replies they all fall under the same indent and no one can tell who is talking to who.

    Also I think that people who reply "thanks OP, bought one" or something on those lines should automatically give the listing a +1. I think pretty low of people who don't vote but think it's a good deal. It's not good for the community to not vote on a deal that you actually think is good/have bought because of the listing.

    • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 15:46
      -7

      rewarding to those with too much time on their hands

      Don't agree with you there. I think it should be designed to favor contributors, people who post good deals and give back to the community. Don't think it's fair to say they just do it because they have too much time on their hands.

      People with too much time on their hands and nothing to contribute can generally be found in the comments section! Posting random crap without bothering to real the details of deals. However, I believe a lot of commenters are very valuable and yes commenters are a very important part of OzB and a lot of contribution is made there. If there was a change, I agree that it should take into account all the contributions from commenters.

      5 negs a day is way too high for a lot of people. but that's getting off-topic.
      Agree with the indents, can be confusing.

      • badg3rz on 25/06/2014 - 19:10
        +3

        So someone like me, that regularly looks at this site, and when finds a bargain is too slow / beaten to post it as they may be are dealing with kids, work, family, everyday life misses out because someone like you has more time than others.

        Wouldn't slowly overtime there would be less and less members as you compete amongst each other to be the only top members to see bargains?

        Not having a go at you personally, but if you feel that your being hard done by, don't post at all.

        • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 19:34
          -1

          nope, I'm not feeling hard done by.

          But yes, that would be the reality of what i'm suggesting. tonester, undercut, monty.mel, WNK, fchis (just picking the last few with 100+ deals for example) etc would see deals a few minutes before others.

        • badg3rz on 25/06/2014 - 21:24
          +15

          It comes across you are being hard done by by naming the top few.

          Thank you for all your hard work posting deals, also to everyone that has contributed to posting deals and topics from minor to major.

          I am sorry I don't have enough time to look for deals when I put my family first and foremost, and work for a living, but what do you want out of this…?

          It seems you want a special boys club for the top elite.

          I am not saying I won't contribute, I would love to, there has been many times I have just missed out on being the first to report it.

          Is it just me or am I speaking for everyone here?

          Is this site not about a volunteer basis helping and notifying others on great finds, an online family / community together as "one"?

        • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 21:48
          -4

          I just wanted to give an example. But you can set the level for "contributor" lower. Say:
          - 5x deals with 15+
          - Or even just voting on a few deals, maybe that's setting it too low. Might encourage the wrong behavior.

          No interest in creating a boys club. Just want to discuss a way to reward people who contribute. I don't see it that way. It's really not hard to find a few deals.

          I'm glad you appreciate the deals, but seriously, maybe give out a plus vote now and then? Your stats show you giving out less than one a year. If you've only found 3 good deals since 2009 then any change shouldn't bother you too much. Justsayin.

    • Moderatorneil on 25/06/2014 - 15:53

      they all fall under the same indent and no one can tell who is talking to who.

      You used to be able to reply indefinitely but the boxes got smaller and smaller which made it really difficult to read. We limit it to a certain level of reply levels currently.

      Not sure what the solution is? I believe sites like Reddit just insert a link to a new page to continue the conversation past x amount of reply levels.

      • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 16:01

        Probably doesn't need a solution, by the time a thread is 5 comments deep it's usually off topic :)

      • c0balt on 25/06/2014 - 16:04

        I believe reddit just keeps going on and on with indents, and that there are formatted vertical lines segmenting replies so one far down below on a page can easily be traced to a post up above.

        I can't think of a decent solution though apart from going that route, and if it becomes difficult to read with the given framework then it won't work.

      • ozhunter on 25/06/2014 - 17:15

        Not sure what the solution is?

        I think similar to Google+ would be good. If you hit the reply button it will automatically start your comment with @user's name.

        • scotty on 25/06/2014 - 21:55
          +8

          @ozhunter — That's actually what we currently have under planned feature. Comment automatically started with @<username> when you reached the maximum indent level. Just haven't got around implementing it.

      • leonheart1 on 25/06/2014 - 17:35

        How about a minus button that closes the comments of a particular sub thread like reddit too? I use that a lot.

        • scotty on 25/06/2014 - 21:56
          +1

          When your mouse cursor hovers over a comment, there should be a toggle on the left hand side of the gravatar. Click on that to collapse a sub-thread. It has been there for ages.

        • leonheart1 on 26/06/2014 - 06:37

          Oh cool! You learn something every day.

      • Tal_Shiar on 26/06/2014 - 03:19

        Not sure what the solution is? I believe sites like Reddit just insert a link to a new page to continue the conversation past x amount of reply levels.

        This works IMO

  • sleet on 25/06/2014 - 15:49
    +4

    Why not provide more incentives for providing good bargains to promote more contribution rather than limiting bargains for all? Taking that approach will improve the site even further rather than limiting it.

    • c0balt on 25/06/2014 - 15:55
      +3

      Hats.

      Give avatars hats. I would totally want to post more for a free hat.

      • Moderatorneil on 25/06/2014 - 15:59

        You'd rather have an OzBargain hat over a t-shirt?

        • c0balt on 25/06/2014 - 16:07
          +1

          IRL - I wouldn't wear either :) unless it worked as a discount card. Imagine getting an extra 5% off at Woolies for doing the shopping in an OZB shirt!

          For an avatar - I think a hat stands out a little more than a shirt, sort of taking a page from the TF2 hats.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/06/2014 - 16:27
          +10

          It could work against you…sales people might run away from you (or throw things at you if you are in HN, it's probably part of their work contract) when they see you coming…

        • badg3rz on 25/06/2014 - 18:51

          Don't think it would work against you.

          Wouldn't someone wearing a tshirt or hat with ozbargain be treated better?

          Either they give a good price / sale, they will get more sales from someone posting up about it. Treat them like crap, everyone will hear about it.

          Make or break.

        • donga100 on 25/06/2014 - 19:40
          +7

          They see you coming and quickly lock the doors to make sure there are no pricing errors before they let you inside.

    • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 15:59

      I thought that it would be an incentive to provide good bargains. I don't know what you mean by limiting bargains for all

      • sleet on 26/06/2014 - 10:03

        I meant rather than imposing limits that you have suggested e.g. the timer.

  • retiredfeline on 25/06/2014 - 16:13
    +5

    I would rather that regular quality contributors have a chance at some deals before the thankless hoards (sic, pun?) (yes, I'm very much generalising, any maybe i'm not being fair but it's how i feel sometimes) dive in and purchase all the stock.

    Do you have evidence that the thankless (you mean ungrateful maybe? thankless means doesn't receive thanks) hordes are snapping up the bargains?

    Remember that a lot of the deals are also posted elsewhere, like FB, and delaying the information will simply make OzBers lose out.

    Personally I'm not fussed if some eyes-glued-to-the-screen OzB addict snaps up a limited number of codes or stock. The good deals allow enough time to take advantage of them.

    Implementing a segregated system will just increase acrimony.

    • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 17:36
      -1

      glad someone enjoyed the pun :p

      No concrete evidence, just a vibe with some deals. Plenty of clicks on some deals and no other action, then things selling out.

      Personally I'm not fussed if some eyes-glued-to-the-screen OzB addict snaps up a limited number of codes or stock. The good deals allow enough time to take advantage of them.

      I'm not overly fussed either, but would prefer the people who post a lot get a go when there is limited stock. I know I started posting deals because I was doing well out of quite a few, and i wanted to give something back to the community.

      Implementing a segregated system will just increase acrimony.

      Agree with you there, it has the potential to do this.

    • donga100 on 25/06/2014 - 19:41
      +3

      Remember that a lot of the deals are also posted elsewhere

      One of the Elite would probably start their own site such as FastOzBargains.com.au just to copy the deals and give people faster access to them.

      • ChickenTalon on 25/06/2014 - 19:45

        nothing stopping someone doing it now…. they wouldn't even need to be logged in

        • donga100 on 25/06/2014 - 20:01
          +1

          No, there is something stopping them because the deals are already posted and viewable on OzBargain so nobody would bother visiting their website. If the deals were hidden or delayed here it gives people an incentive to find them earlier somewhere else.

  • CI on 25/06/2014 - 16:38
    +1

    Knowing my luck I would still miss out

  • AMLagonda on 25/06/2014 - 17:32
    +3

    Silly idea that sounds like a lot of work for who?

    It should always be first in first serve even if it seems unfair, and yes I miss out an a lot of deals just like the rest of us, thats life, no good crying about it even when i see people posting on how they really didnt need 4 of the items but hey they were cheap….

  • marc86au on 25/06/2014 - 20:48

    I like the concept but it would be a lot of work to make it.. work.

    The way I would imagine it working:

    • Default post stays the way it is - everyone can see the deal whether logged in or not
    • A checkbox can be ticked for deals with limited stock which will mean it's only displayed to "top contributors" for the first 10 minutes
    • To qualify as a "top contributor" you would have to have posted at least 5 deals and have an average rating of more than +20 over all the deals you've posted.

    This would encourage people to post more deals and discourage spam deals being posted

  • scotty on 25/06/2014 - 22:06
    +4

    Yes we covered this many times before, and I agree with what @daveozsydney and @greenpossum had said:

    • KISS.
    • If it's not on OzBargain, people will get it or share it elsewhere so still no real benefit to the users here
  • MementoMori on 26/06/2014 - 14:38

    I'm all for it.

    I think a points based system would work well, one that also includes points per '+1' comment to encourage friendly and enjoyable discussion.

  • mp3police on 27/06/2014 - 04:14
    +1

    I just love elitism and popularity contests.

    • tonka on 27/06/2014 - 12:31

      Bit of a stretch.
      I don't think the OP is suggesting the system exclude people. In fact I would suggest in is intended to stop people excluding themselves from the group.

      • ProspectiveDarkness on 27/06/2014 - 14:12
        +2

        I don't think the OP is suggesting the system exclude people. In fact I would suggest in is intended to stop people excluding themselves from the group.

        That makes no sense. The OP wants to disadvantage everyone who doesn't meet his standards of contribution. They also want the ability to discriminate against certain people completely with their 'user lists' out of spite. If all that doesn't just scream elitism and exclusivity, I don't know what does.

        There are already rewards in place (run by scotty and neil, I believe) to reward those who contribute the most every month. And that's very well and good, because they're actually rewarding those people, not disadvantaging everyone else as the OP suggests.

        And to further this point:

        stop people excluding themselves from the group.

        How other people use the site is absolutely none of your business - and it's certainly none of your business to be discriminating against users who take this site less seriously than others. Yes, it's great if people contribute and post a good deal if they happen across one, but you can't force people to hunt for deals - or magically pull some from their ass - simply to be treated like worthwhile members of the community.

        • tonka on 27/06/2014 - 14:50

          I still think you are being dramatic. eg accusing OP of discriminating out of spite.
          The OP is simply tabling a potential change for discussion.

          'but you can't force people to hunt for deals.' You can of course encourage people to do this.
          The problem I see is there is no real incentive to post but instead discouragement as people get hit with snarky posts as soon as they say boo.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 27/06/2014 - 15:02
          +1

          I still think you are being dramatic. eg accusing OP of discriminating out of spite.

          Well, firstly I don't know how I can 'still' be dramatic when that was my first comment on the matter. And secondly, I didn't say he was discriminating, I said he wants the ability to.

          Back on point, there might have been a tiny bit of exaggeration there, but that'll be the reality. Don't like that person? Lol, he can't see my deals any more. Had an argument with that guy? Oops, he's on my shitlist. It would turn into a popularity contest full of petty people, plain and simple.

          You can't trust people to be making decisions like that - especially when this OP just suggested separating everyone into different classes based on their perceived worth. So we already know he's prone to making judgement calls based on the little numbers on your profile… how do you think he'd run with even a little of this power? Everything about this thread smacks of elitism.

          You can of course encourage people to do this.

          It's not encouragement if there are negative repercussions for not following suit.

        • tonka on 27/06/2014 - 15:49

          Dude you make it sound like he is proposing a new Spanish inquisition.

          He is just tabling an idea for discussion.

        • retiredfeline on 27/06/2014 - 16:10

          I want the comfy chair!

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 27/06/2014 - 16:51

          A slight bit of exaggeration doesn't diminish the point. And yes, I'm aware of the fact that the OP is 'tabling an idea for discussion' - what do you think I'm trying to do? (hint: it's discuss)

        • Tal_Shiar on 28/06/2014 - 14:45

          can't take the heat anymore so you cop out tonka?

        • tonka on 28/06/2014 - 16:43

          Pretty much.

          Didn't think we were gonna get anywhere.

          I see it as an incentive program, PD sees it as dis-incentive.

          The fact is the difference is always in the eye of the beholder which can't be argued.

          I just thought the comments were a bit harsh on the OP.

        • ChickenTalon on 29/06/2014 - 12:08
          +1

          good discussion

          OP not too fussed about harshness :) but wanted to get some healthy discussions going about the idea.

          I do think it's very important not to create an "elitist" or overly exclusive group. and some of what I’ve said is just to stir people up and get them thinking. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/150172#comment-2073520 was just that. Don't get me wrong though, there are some people here whose only contribution seems to be to irritate deal posters and IMO aren't a great part of the community, and often they endup in the penalty box….. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/user/72087 like this twat.

          The level of contributor could be set very low. maybe even a single deal? maybe even just creating an account? The point of this part would be to create that incentive to help the community.

          Yesterday you could see one example of what I was talking about, There were over 175 purchases per hour of a listing here: PIONEER over-Ear Headphones White SEMJ511W $10 Free Delivery @DSE eBay Store
          and over 1205 sold since that deal was listed, 68k clicks V's 168+ and 116 comments. clearly there is a large number of people taking advantage of the deals being posted who don't even have accounts on OzB, or can't be bothered even thanking the poster. Yes i get that it's now on (although quite hidden) the ebay deal page, but I suspect with 68k clicks that most of the traffic is from OzB.

          I suspect that with this deal (as it's listed as limited stock) DSE will be refunding plenty of those sales when the person responsible gets in on Monday morning. Not stating that as fact right now, and time will tell. But it would be a shame for the OzB community to miss out on the early orders which get honored because the deal is available to people without accounts at the same time. In this way, a timer system would favour the OzB community to get in first.

        • tonka on 29/06/2014 - 15:17
          +2

          I think the argument that restricting viewing the deal would just lead to the site being mirrored somewhere has a lot of merit.

          For me a lot of the value of OZB is the insight offered in the comments. (also a lot of the trash)

          I think limiting that to member access would encourage people to login and once people are part of the community they are much more likely to contribute.

          If you have no account you can't build it up so existing incentives have no meaning in that case.

  • Gav on 03/07/2014 - 15:43
    +1

    I'm all for it!

    THE PROBLEM:

    • OzB has grown to be too big, especially relative to the size of some retailers/providers … which is actually a good thing for scotty since he gets the revenue! :) But from "getting a bargain" perspective, there's now simply too many people and that means that deals get snapped up quickly. Say hello to the "Ozbargained" verb. And say hello to some poor small businesses who got inundated when it made it to OzB. SlickDeals (US), HotUKDeals (UK), etc. have been through the same growing pains and think about how much larger their audience is! Who else does this? FlyerTalk - access to certain forums only after x posts in x months.

    • Too many brodens, or even innocents buying up for the family ("I bought 4 for me, 2 for the dog, and 1 for the cat"). We could point fingers at retailers here (not limiting quantities) but sometimes their systems have no such controls, and they suffer financially if they cancel orders.

    THE SOLUTION

    • This is the dilemma! Personally, I think it's time for a "VIP" aspect of the site. But what criteria? This is ultimately up to scotty and the team, but I'd consider:
    1. Min. period of time before can have access
    2. How long someone has been on OzB (bit biased here as I've been here since the start … first <x> active users of the site deserve something)
    3. How much they've contributed (quality, not quantity!) … shouldn't just be measured by votes
    4. Badges
    5. Awards

    • As to the advantages, I'd certainly say it's visibility to the deal <x> hours before everyone else. I think OzB dominates the market enough that people wouldn't go elsewhere with the deal instead. Could also consider VIP only forums.

    • The "VIP" aspect should be well known to everyone… something to strive for. As a community site, it should never be able to be purchased.

    OTHER CONSIDERATIONS

    • 'Rewarding' a person who posts a popular deal that never makes it past VIP (e.g. faster track to VIP status)

    • Summarising list of deals that made it to VIP but not general (again, something to strive for). Via newsletter, forum post.

    • donga100 on 03/07/2014 - 18:42
      +2

      I don't really support the idea but if it was to go ahead I would prefer the VIP level to be called "Professional" level instead.

  • Make it so on 09/07/2014 - 17:56
    +2

    I think any "throttling" of publishing bargains poses the risk of reducing attractiveness of Ozbargain, and ultimately the size of its audience (especially public). Fewer public users means fewer future members (many self-proclaimed "lurkers" end up becoming members because they want to post a good bargain). And that means fewer bargains posted.

    I agree about too many small shops being completely overwhelmed by too many Ozbargainers, but more members should mean more posts, and hopefully distribute the purchases somewhat.

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