I managed to get some gift cards as part of the ebay 15% off sale. I paid with paypal which charged the amount to my credit card.
This morning I checked my credit card statement and found I have been charged a cash advance fee for the paypal purchase.
Has anyone seem something similar where they have been charged a cash advance for purchasing giftcards?
Yea same, what the hell, was yours Gifte as well? Card Limbo Pty Ltd via paypal?
Yeah, my transaction shows up on my credit card as PAYPAL *CARDLIMBO
I phoned PayPal and they said it definitely went through as a Mastercard Credit transaction, not cash advance.
But my credit card company says they put it through as a cash advance.
Wow.. something must have gone wrong on the weekend.
All paypal transactions are processed in Australia. Each paypal transactions that I have are all ended with AU/AUS.
I have the same cash advance statement. So is it Paypal's problem or Gifte's? It is definitely not acceptable!
it is a problem with credit card provider
Is this only with gift card purchases?
I just reviewed my paypal and credit card for the weekend and other than the amount of money I spent, all transaction looked ok.
I was also charged a CASH ADVANCE fee by CARDLIMBO, not happy at all, does that mean we can withdraw cash using the Visa gift card?
My Gifte purchased came up as normal with NAB. Not a cash advance, and no extra fees. Sometimes when I deposit into SportsBet it says cash advance at first while the transaction is pending, but once it goes through, it appears as a normal purchase.
I deposited into Sportsbet through Paypal from my 28 Degrees card last Thursday and it charged an extra $4 as a cash advance fee. So you reckon it will disappear once it goes from pending to a confirmed transaction? :)
No, he was with NAB.
I doubt it. I've never had an extra fee appear; only the words "cash advance" which then get replaced with the merchant name once it goes through.
My Gifte purchased came up as normal with NAB
Is that a NAB credit or debit card?
Credit. NAB Velocity Visa
Scrap that. I just got my statement and I was charged interest on this purchase as a cash advance (despite it saying Credit Card Purchase under the transaction, not Cash Advance). I called and they refunded it, and said they will stop it accrueing more. I've also paid it off in full now.
so it seems much more widespread than just GE Money…
You should read the terms of your credit card.
Sport betting and gambling accounts are always treated as cash advances in Australia (its actually legislated so)
I've never been charged a cash advance fee or interest on gambling
was your Ebay purchase from CARDLIMBO?
Yes
Some banks and card issuers treat gift cards and gambling as cash advances. Some do not. Best to ring your provider and find out.
To add to that, visa never used to until they updated their policies
I called my credit card vendor (Coles) and the gentleman answering my call said that he will waive that cash advance fee. The online statement has not been updated yet but I guess it will at least take one day.
What I don't understand is how can Paypal let this happen? It is suppose to be a shield between merchants and buyers and prevent exactly this kind of things from happening in the beginning. Why should I trust Paypal at all if someone can charge my credit card as cash out through it without my knowledge?
Also make sure u pay off the amount of the transaction on your credit card ASAP. Interest will be charged on cash advances from the day of the transaction.
Thank you for the heads up. Yes the original transaction is still regarded as cash out so it needs to be paid back immediately. They advised me to pay back ASAP the amount of that transaction + minimal payment of the last statement + the interest already accrued. To be on the safe side, I also included the cash advance fee waiting to be cleared.
I don't think the minimal payment of last statement is enough. Credit card issuers always take payments against purchases first and cash advances last. The only way to make sure you remove the cash advance from your card is to pay off the whole balance owning, in full.
Worse, some issuers (I know Mac Bank is like this) don't 'apply' your payments until the next statement is issued so in fact you need to pay off enough today to make sure your next statement has a nil or negative balance. It's the only way to remove a cash advance from your card. This is only with some issuers, I know Citibank is not like this. Best maybe to call and confirm again.
Credit card issuers always take payments against purchases first and cash advances last.
I don't think you are correct. What is your source?
When I was on the phone with Coles Mastercard yesterday they said cash advance transactions are paid off first before any regular transactions.
What is your source?
I used to work in Credit Cards division of a large bank. I've also had three credit cards with different issuers, and at some stage on each had the same 'cash advance' issue. Admittedly, I have not reviewed Coles Mastercard T&Cs.
I would still recommend you reviewing your cards T&C's for which balances are paid off first. It makes no sense for an issuer to apply payments against cash advances first - that would cost them $$$. Unless you have it in writing from Coles, best to check your T&Cs so you don't get stung down the track. And at 20+% interest… you will get stung.
In 2012 there were the credit card reforms which changed that for new credit cards
http://www.bankingreforms.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fu…
Credit card providers will be required to direct repayments to the most expensive part of your credit card debt first - making it easier to reduce your debt faster.
Ah right, my apologies I was unaware of the reforms. After my time it seems. Thanks for enlightening me
There is a catch though, something to be aware of.
If your account was issued before the reforms took place then you fall under the old rules and regime of Cash Advances being 'paid' last.
Thank you for revealing this; I was also unaware.
My old Commonwealth Visa credit card account always had a policy (to my knowledge which I have never tested) that if you had money owing on the card and then took out a cash advance, the cash advance was the LAST thing you paid off, hence dealing with cash advance fees for possibly a long period, calculated daily etc. I was in a situation in the 90s when I owed about $1,000 on the credit card and was pressured by another for a cash advance (which he said he would pay off next day). I refused on the grounds that I would be paying for that cash advance until the whole debt was paid off. It appears then that this still applies for my credit card, as this was well before the 2012 reforms.
Thankfully those days of credit card debit are long gone for me, but I feel for those people who were not so fortunate (although their own faults) and never got out of that credit card debt spiral … apparently that was what the 2012 reforms tried to address. Unfortunately a new wave of young adults are still falling into the debt cycle, starting with mobile phone plans, extravagant HECS fees, then apparently requiring a new car to start their careers. Financial debt education needs serious attention at secondary/tertiary levels.
@matt_will_fix_it:
bankWest do not do this by default, you can call them and ask them to change to highest interest first, but they are not required to do it.
If your card was issued after 1 July 2012 they are required by law to allocate payments to the highest interest buckets first
See http://www.bankingreforms.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fu…
Credit card providers will be required to direct repayments to the most expensive part of your credit card debt first - making it easier to reduce your debt faster.
This is not going to end well for anyone.
I got stung with 28 Degrees card.
It seems to be GE Money issued cards. I used a Coles credit card and someone else on here did too.
I registered NSW Lotto several years ago. Paid my membership fee online with Coles credit card (GE Money owns it). when bill came, there was an interest for this expense shown on my statement. How can they treat a service as a cash advance? shame!!!
Yes funny how I always have theses hidden charges with GE money but never with anyone else. Foreign currency fees for transactions in AUD. Would have used my citibank card but had already used that for an earlier transaction. Think i won't be renewing my card, sick of all this.
I paid with 28 Degrees. but nothing yet
I paid with my Coles platinum Mastercard and got the same $16.05 charge. I just got it waived with no problems. Like others have mentioned, they told me that treat gift cards as credit, the same if you pay a credit card bill with a credit card and gambling it's treated as a cash advance fee. He had to ask his supervisor though as he hadn't seen it before and was looking on my account for an atm withdrawal or gambling charge.
Looks like I'll use my American Express or Citibank card next time.
Hmm, I have the exact same card and called them up and they said gift cards are not suppose to be treated as cash advance, bs if you ask me no warning and it is charged, no reward points either.
Oh yeah no rewards points on cash advances. That's annoying, 1% of the purchase is $5.38 lost
I just called Coles Mastercard. They are happy to waive my cash advance fee as well as all the interest incurred as a result of this Paypal purcahse (as long as I paid the full balance before the due date).
The exact words I used is "I want to dispute this transaction as a credit purchase". Then they immediately offered me the interest free period for that Paypal transaction.
Trouble is not everyone will dispute these transactions, and not everyone will find it convenient to ring the banks when they are charged these fees.
Good on you for appealing though; I feel sorry for those that don't (that the banks are relying on).
They'll stop their shit quick smart if you lodge a FOS complaint every time it happens.
Same thing happens when you buy foreign currency with a credit card.
Not always foreign currency. Been charged a fee even when it's in AUD from a ? overseas based merchant by GE Money of course.
Was this for a 28 degrees card???
Coles MC. Wouldn't expect FC fees from 28 deg.
Most banks will consider this kind of thing "Quasi-Cash" and charge a cash advance fee. Same goes for gambling such as sportsbet topups etc.
Also if you buy a scratch-it ticket on your credit card that can be considered a cash advance.
I can sort of understand the treatment of gambling transactions as cash advances because they feel you might be able to turn a $100 withdrawal into $100 cash within minutes, but how exactly do you turn a $100 gift card into cash rather than purchases?
I think the banks (or others) are getting a tad greedy here.
I have complained to my bank about receiving a so-called "cash advance" fee when my Visa credit card was in credit and was basically told they are not supposed to be used in that manner (so you are supposed to be in debt then …).
I also had a "cash advance" fee applied when my credit card was in surplus, for purchase of a lotto ticket.
See below for thread:
https://community.commbank.com.au/t5/Everyday-Banking/Why-ca…
Note that I didn't get a straight answer about whether any fees are attached if your account is in credit and you take funds out overseas, ie. use it as a convenience. We have used this in the past to avoid PayPal transaction fees and travellers cheques, as most everywhere that we know takes Visa.
The question of what is a "cash advance" appears to be (but don't take my word for it in case I am wrong); if for gambling purposes. The bank asks me to ring them if I have my account in credit and wish to make a payment that may attract a cash advance fee. My question is why should I have to ring them? Why treat a payment that is obviously not a cash ADVANCE (as account in credit) when it should not be?
I also have a prepaid credit card (Mastercard) which I prefer to use online, but that card disallows purchases for gambling. So, now if I wish to purchase a lotto ticket online the way to do it is transfer funds from my regular savings bank account by BPAY to lotto … no fees attached to that transaction … but does take a few days to process.
Yes, I don't think you should be charged a "cash advance" fee for gift card purchases or gambling purchases (hell, it was only a single lotto ticket), especially when your credit card is in surplus, and I also don't think you should have to contact the bank to have that fee reversed. My 2c worth.
Mine says:
21 Jun 2014 Show or hide the transaction detail: PAYPAL CARDLIMBOCARDL CREMORNE
PAYPAL CARDLIMBOCARDL CREMORNE
Retail & Grocery $513.62
PAYPAL PRIVATE
AUSTRALIA
00000
AUSTRALIA
Date Processed: 22 Jun 2014
I paid via PayPal with Amex Amex.
I am paying paypal not CARDLIMBO, so Why are the banks charging your a cashadvance? You are purchasing items on eBay how do they know what you purchased.
Something doesnt make sense. You must been doing something wrong.
Yeah mine appears similar to yours. I guess it's a mishap for those who were charged the cash advance fee.
Luckily I didnt use my 28deg card but I used AMEX. AFAIK AMEX didnt charge me for that.
My apologies if I'm digressing (mods please delete if so), but has anyone received their gift cards yet?
Not me. I have an express post tracking number though. Others in the eBay thread have reported receiving them.
Nothing to say they've even been sent. They were happy to list them and take our money but in no rush to send them.
Try packing 1000+ letters with gift cards. Give them some time.
So just to confirm everybody who has been charged has a credit card with GE? (ie 28 Deg, Coles MC etc)
Yeah, I actually rang to complain about the cash advance, guess this will send my order to the end of the line? lol
Rang who?
Gift E
Messaged them and they said it has nothing to do with them, contact my CC provider.
I had the run around too. I didn't contact Gift E however
- Paypal said its my credit card providers issue
- GE Money said its a Paypal issue
End of the day, once my statement is issued, if there are any fees or interest charges I'll just file a dispute.
Yes they all blame everyone else. Just phone GE Money and they should reverse the charge and any interest. Seems to have worked for everyone here.
What does your PDS say for your CC?
Maybe read that then ring GE Money and ask them wtf is going on It was a PayPal transaction like any purchase.
Gotta have backup to t&cs so you can own them*.
*them being the people on the phone
i just called 28 degrees and they said it's a cash equiv transaction. so i asked "how do i go about getting the $xx.xx removed from my account" and the kind lady said as a one time offer i can waive it
I don't know why. I've bought gift cards on numerous occasions with a CC but never had it treated as a cash advance. How would they know what I bought anyway, which is why I contacted gifte. None of my other pay pal ebay purchases were treated as cash advamces.
So if I buy a gift card from Coles isntore using my Coles Credit Card would that be a "Cash Advance" too?
They wouldn't even know what you bought.
They do actually…. when you purchase from Coles or Kmart or Target with a Coles Credit card, they put on your statement what the majority of your purchase was…
eg if I purchased some kids clothes from Target, it says it was Childrens wear. If I purchase some kitchen stuff from Kmart it says Homewares.
Not sure how they do it, but they definitely do know what you are buying.
That would be from your fly buys card. They wouldn't know otherwise.
Incorrect - some transactions I have not scanned my flybuys card and it still says that stuff on my statement.
It also happens for Officeworks payments which and Officeworks don't accept flybuys.
Thanks to the OP for pointing this out - I have 28 degrees and I also have the cash advance fee. This is extremely misleading :|
Just rang - first person I spoke to had no idea - tried to convince me that if the merchant doesn't support mastercard it will go through as a cash advance (even though I said it was paypal and has never happened on paypall before). I asked to speak to a supervisor and now I am on hold.
http://www.28degreescard.com.au/faqs/cash-advance-fee.html
What is a cash equivalent transaction?
A cash equivalent transaction means:
a purchase of traveller’s cheques or money orders;
a purchase of casino gambling chips or tokens;
a funds transfer debited to your account (except balance transfers);
a purchase of, or loading of value on, a pre-paid or stored-value card or facility; or
a transaction made through bill payment facilities where the supplier or financial institution does not accept direct payment by credit card (for example payment of bills through a third party or over the counter at a financial institution); or
other transactions that we notify you will be treated as cash equivalent transactions.
I guess it's a stored value card but it's not very clear in my opinion - they should say gift card.
They are willing to refund the cash advance fee but not the interest incurred. I said that's not good enough and I'm on hold again. I don't think any reasonable consumer would checkout with paypal and expect to be charged a cash advance. I think it's entirely misleading.
Outcome: finally the supervisor has agreed to waive the interest on the cash advance as well - i told him it was a gift card and he blamed the merchant completely. Said that cardlimbo put the transaction through as a cash transaction. Didn't even think paypal can do that.
I am not sure whether this is GE's fault or cardlimbos but if I can be sure it's cardlimbo claiming as a cash advance then I will definitely be leaving negative feedback on ebay about this.
Pay pal told me they don't allow cash transactions- only credit purchases. Gifte told me it was done by the CC provider. I don't know how GE Money can determine what was purchased when all they have is pay pal- Card limbo.
I have faced similar issues earlier for AUD purchases I have made from overseas merchants using my credit card via PayPal for which I was charged a foreign transaction fee. These were on the Woolworths Money Credit Card with are HSBC issued.
I first contacted PayPal and they confirmed that they have not applied the fees or indicated in anyway that this was an overseas transaction. So, I called up HSBC and argued that I had authorised HSBC to pay PayPal, AU in AUD. So why the foreign transaction fee? I also pointed out to them a few other similar transactions where I wasn't charged a fee.
Initially HSBC kept passing the buck but I persisted and eventually, after about 2 weeks, HSBC agreed that they had applied the charges by cross checking the merchant info/name they receive from PayPal to their internal merchant database. On the occasions that I didn't pay the fees, HSBC did not know that the merchant was an overseas merchant. I wasn't convinced but this was as far as I could dig. I decided that this was really dodgy of them and have switch to using my 28Degrees card for all overseas transaction, PayPal or otherwise.
Wow that is really messed up that they charge a foreign transaction fee for charged billed in AUD currency :| That is stooping really low indeed.
Well, the HSBC Customer Care clarified that there are two distinct charges associated to overseas transactions:
1. Currency Conversion Fee
2. Overseas/Foreign Transaction Fee
What I was charged was (2) and not (1). On further clarification, I learnt that if I used by card overseas for a transaction that was done using the local currency of that country, then I would be charged with both the above fees, which added up to slightly more than 5%.
I was outraged but I retained the card as I got a lot of value from that card domestically. However, like I stated before, I have switched to 28Degress for all non-domestic-like transactions.
no 2 are charged based on
However, I believe all PayPal transactions are processed in Australia.
However, I believe all PayPal transactions are processed in Australia
Exactly what I though and stated. But the HSBC representative told me that the fee was charged as the merchant was non-australian. I again tried to reason that w.r.t. HSBC, PayPal was the merchant and it wasn't their business to see what PayPal did with it. In fact, the only thing I had done was authorise HSBC to pay PayPal. Nothing more, nothing less. But he/she wouldn't agree and said this is as per their "policy".
First person I spoke to waived the fee for me without me even asking.
Trick is to act clueless.
Good for you. But be very careful of the interest part as that could keep accruing and might not get waived.
The girl I spoke to was good. She waived that portion for me as well without asking.
I tried acting clueless as well and it didn't work for me :(
i got stung $12 on st george amplify for "cash advance fee" cash subs the morning after #CBIGSUNDAY
i faxed a letter to their customer relations telling them to reverse it and fix up any interest they are planning to impose on my account or i wont hesitate to move my two mortgages and credit card to another bank.
i've sent two faxes in the past to the same number over other matters. so far i'm 2 for 2
honestly though the whole thing is just a waste of time. poor form.
mine were rebel sport gift cards.
i asked them to explain to me the difference between these gift cards and the ones i purchased last month from big W that didn't attract a "cash advance fee" - both rebel sport gift cards
they once charged me around $60 interest on $1000 being four days late.. nobody could explain it to me either in person or on the phone. i sent a fax asking them to provide the calculations to me in writing and the response i got was that they would instead waive it.
fax? lol.
My thoughts exactly! However some banks don't accept email which is annoying… their only ways to write to them are fax or post.
Will you REALLY move your mortgages and credit cards to another bank if they don't give you back $12?
You need to fill out heaps of forms and sign heaps of papers just to do it, waste you like few hours which you could have easily earned back that $12 and even more by then.
I had a similar problem with st george several years ago, i closed all my accounts and moved everything to other providers, never had to deal with this kind of shit since.
I think possibly GE might have been using keyword scanning? Cardlimbo is well known to sell giftcards only?
Still quite annoying and unpredictable…
So just saw this, panicked and checked my bank statement. In fact today ANZ issued a credit card statement online so it should also even show the cash advanced interest amount if it was there.
Can't see anything and it appears to have gone through as a normal transaction.
I used the AMEX card issued by ANZ (one of those here's a VISA and AMEX card things)
Thanks guys, I called GE Money and got the fees reversed on my 28 Degrees CC
I have the Woolworth Qantas Credit card and I got charged $5.51 Cash Advance Fee for buying $300 worth of gift cards during Sunday's eBay deal. Called up Woolworth customer service, argued for 30 min that if I went to a physical store and bought a gift card, I wouldn't be charged a fee, so why should I be charged the cash advance fee if I bought one online?
Response from them was they cannot waive the fee as they don't have the authority to do so (not sure if that is bullshit or not), and that I have to contact the original merchant as they are the ones who categorised this transaction as a cash substitute that falls under the category of cash advance. I have to get a written confirmation from the merchant that this transaction was categorised incorrectly, so they MAY reverse the fees?
Does anyone else have to go through this much trouble?
28 Degrees said it was the merchant's fault as well. So many conflicting reports. Gifte denies it, if it is Gifte's fault I want to leave negative feedback on ebay but it's so hard to know the truth.
Response from gifte: "Hi,
We are currently in talks with Ebay and Paypal to try and rectify this.
Would you be at all able to to send us an itemised statement detailing the charges so we can present this to them?
Kind Regards,
As gifte is looking into this on behalf of all their customers, I would expect them to take some responsibility in informing ALL possible affected customers, that they may be due for a refund of fees and charges. Would seem the only sensible course of action; they would have the data of all who purchased these gift cards and are at first base then to inform those possibly affected.
Moral of this story appears: DO NOT purchase gift cards online using a credit card.
FYI
For me, I used both citibank and CBA cards via PayPal and did not get charged any foreign or cash advance fees.
Also I have received my cards after 2 days and activated them already used them.
Hope you all have luck in getting this rectified.
By the way not sure if this is relevant to know I bought these quite early. One of the first 5 people who bought at about 12:15am that day.
Thanks for bringing this to light, I probably would have missed it
Called up CBA (credit card I used to buy the gift cards) and the dude promptly cancelled it. He said paypal had classified it as the same as gambling
Yup I got them too at $16.05. Also international transaction fee of $1.34. For spending $535.24