Things you didn't know weren't legal?

Hi everybody!

All these forum topics have got me thinking about a bunch of things, and I realised that at my last call centre job I worked a double shift (8 hours) and wasn't allowed a break, which isn't legal in Australia I believe. I didn't know that and was wondering if people have done anything to you that you didn't know wasn't legal.

I.e just saw an ad on Gumtree saying that if you want to job you have to go through an unpaid trial before you can work there. Which isn't legal! And paying $12/hour to someone who's 21 is under minimum pay I'm pretty sure.

Anyway, hope this topic might teach me (and maybe even you!) a few things :)

Happy monday!

Comments

  • +173

    Nice try AFP.

    • -8

      i don't get it…can someone explain what the AFP has to do with this…:)

      • +30

        It's meant to be a joke. i.e. that the federal police are asking people to admit to laws they have broken so the police can charge them.

        Similar to Solihull Police tweeting:

        Anyone lost a huge amount of cannabis in the Chelmsley Wood area? Don’t panic, we found it. Please come to the police station to collect it.
        https://twitter.com/SolihullPolice/status/277096758948003840

        and,

        Not a scam: If you’ve committed a burglary in the Solihull area within the last week - come to our police station & claim a FREE iPad.
        https://twitter.com/SolihullPolice/status/287925528047013889

        • +4

          thanks a lot! :)

        • +5

          I won't fall for that one AGAIN!

        • -2

          This is called entrapment, police setting up 'sting operations' that tempt people into performing illegal acts that they would not do under normal circumstances is illegal and unethical.

          Very common in the USA where the police frequently use sting ops to bust would-be drug dealers.

        • +4

          @scrimshaw: It's not entrapment - that's when the police induce someone to break the law.

          A sting operation of leaving an expensive boat+trailer out and nabbing anyone that pinches it isn't entrapment. But an undercover cop encouraging someone to steal a boat and then nabbing them if they do is.

          In Australia, being tricked into confessing to something you've already done, e.g. being told "it's off the record", doesn't give a defence, nor does "entrapment" - it's up to the court to decide the persons guilt or innocence.

        • +1

          @Thrift: Someone who understands law! Finally.

        • +1

          @Andy-Laa: I wouldn't go that far.

        • @voolish:
          Thats the reason why you are voolish and not foolish ;)

      • Here is sheldon cooper

    • +1

      Your display picture completes the joke.
      +1 for you good sir.

  • +14

    And paying $12/hour to someone whose 21 is under minimum pay I'm pretty sure.

    This is actually quite common in asian restaurants, in Adelaide anyway. $12 for an international student waitress/waiter is considered good pay, since most only offer $9/hr. I even heard some only paying $6/hr. Unfortunately, even if they know its illegal, many wont raise their voice because they have no where else to go.

    • +4

      many wont raise their voice because they have no where else to go.

      Easy, if you want to keep your employees quiet, threaten to sack them!

    • +4

      It is common, but that doesn't make it right, I think they mostly hire people who are from overseas though, and they probably don't know very much about the wage system here.

      • +7

        I know. I knew an international student who was looking for a part time job while studying. I told her about the minimum wage and everything, since she's over 20yo with no experience and so-so english, lots of better paying and legit businesses like McDonalds and cafes dont want her. So its either accept the low paying job in cash, or have nothing at all.

        • +21

          And keep a diary of when you worked, how much you got paid and when you did get a better legitimate job, bam, hit them with the Fair Work Commission or whatever it's called now. They get a big fine and you get the money back you should have been paid.

        • +4

          [@Daabido]

          A lot of overseas students are on visas that don't allow them to work many hours a week, so they take the cash in hand jobs and keep quiet to collect some pocket money. I had a french girlfriend a couple of years ago who worked on market stalls for spending money because she was here on a tourist visa

        • +6

          @Daabido: And then get kicked out of the country for not maintaining your Visa conditions

        • +1

          i knew of someone who kept a logbook whilst working in the ACT.
          Their employers were fined a huge amount, and had to pay the missing wages.

        • I've worked at one for a bit, they make you sign this log book, saying you only worked 3hrs and got paid legal rate, when you actually worked 5hrs and got paid half of that value.

        • @Daabido:

          and you get the money back you should have been paid.

          … and then you "get to" pay the tax you dodged by having a cash-in-hand job.

      • The hospitality industry here in melbourne would crumble without the underpaid foreign workforce. Employee's actively seek them even if they have 0 training over qualified/trained candidates.

        Source: Im australian born who has wanted a job bad enough to be a dishwasher.

    • During my last year at uni I worked at a sushi place for $7 per hour. I liked it though (loved learning all about how to make it and still make use of the skills to this day) and I got to eat sushi which I love. But after I graduated, it was time to get a proper paying job. I'd keep doing it though if I could earn what I earn now but good luck with that.

  • +1

    I dont think unpaid internship (even full time) is illegal in Australia. I mean I did one for three months for a non profit organisation right after I finished my university.

    • +7

      I dont think unpaid internship

      through an unpaid trial

      Trial and internship are two different things. The former is when the boss decides to hire you just to observe how well you do and the second is basically on-the-job training where the student and employer may either negotiate payment or agree that the job is completely voluntary and unpaid.

      Unpaid trial work is OK only in certain circumstances.

      In the former case, unpaid trial work is exploited by scumbag employers who continually employ people without paying in order to get free labour. Whirlpool has already exposed a few companies who did this, hiring students for trial work lasting weeks, not paying them, then letting them go and repeating this cycle.

      • +1

        From what I've been hearing lately a lot of those asian nail salons are doing it, I've heard a few people say they worked for 3 months and kept bugging the boss about paying them. Eventually he said, "you can keep working and wait for your pay or leave and not get paid at all" :/

        • Retailers do it too, one of my relatives was asked to resell sport shoes in the markets and other shops.

          She was asked to perform a 9 week "training" period in which she would receive no pay. The job involved just standing around and selling shoes in the market — asides from cash handling and basic communication skills I don't see why a job like this required 2 full months of unpaid training.

        • 9 weeks! what a disgusting job and what a waste of time.

    • Sometimes you need to do it, age/disability care for example demands 1 week trial for cert3. I think its to help those who turn up day1 not knowing what to do.

      • +5

        Is that part of the course though? Work experience is different.

      • Sometimes you need to do it, age/disability care for example demands 1 week trial for cert3.

        That's not a trial, it's a work placement. They're up to 6 months in some fields.

    • An internship needs to be connected to a legitimate vocational training course. It can't just be a random job.

      That is, to get credit or pass the course, you need to work in a placement for x weeks.

  • +20

    this one's hilarious. Shows how the government is completely out of touch how the job seeking process works.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152564448798446&se…

    • +3

      I would upvote your post one hundred times more!

    • +4

      One of the Fairfax journalists gave the example of Geelong, where there are approx 800 unemployed people, who will be sending out applications times 40 each month, blanketing the poor local employers with 32000 applications each month. Obviously not wasting anybody's time…

  • +9

    I've seen the Gumtree posts. I took a look at what is required to report them to Fair Work, and it is impractical to "dob them in" unless you are employed by them and actually receiving under-award pay.
    Which is dumb. There should be a hotline to report things like this which results in a call to the employer saying "we've got our eye on you - you need to follow X award.".

    • +1

      Mm, agree, actually I inquired about a job that was offered, they ask for overtime work (12 hours a day, 15 min break) sork all day sunday and no extra pay on public holidays. They said starting price was $10/hour, going onto $12/hour for experienced employees.

    • +7

      You could always just call pretending to be said authority and give them a scare ;) OZbargain Vigilantes!

  • Some people here in WA think that parking on someone's verge is legal because it belongs to the council. Its not. You must have permission of the owner or occupant to park on a verge or risk a parking fine. This is because the occupant is required to keep up the verge. Hard to do with trucks destroying the reticulation ruining the turf on a rainy day.

    • +4

      Parking in the verge area is an offense under the Australian Road Rules. But who knows how that applies in WA..

      • Because WA's Road Traffic Code adopts the Australian Road Rules, AFAIK

    • I didn't know we weren't allowed to park on the verge? Are you talking about residential areas? There are signs of where and when we can park area the residential area around my uni.

      • http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_reg/arr210/s197…

        basically the land from the property line to the road in residential areas is a no parking area but the effort to enforce this road rule is not very high on the police or councils radars. Up here its actioned only by complaint in the suburbs and taken care of by the parking inspectors in the CBD.

      • +4

        Yes, I am referring to residential areas. I think it is very disrespectful to park on someone's verge.

        • -3

          That's ridiculous. I couldn't care less if someone parks on my lawn and I'd park on someone else's lawn.

          The only reason I wouldn't is if it was 300-400 square metre homes that only gave each home one parking space out the front and even then only if most parks around their home were taken and it was like 4-5 so as not to block them when they get back.

          Sharing is caring.

        • +3

          I've had my reticulation damaged and my grass damaged as well as blocking my view when I back out of my driveway.

        • +1

          up here its worse in the wetseason as people drive up and leave massive tracks in the lawn which are a nightmare to remove. and if they do it a lot in the dry season the grass just dies.
          common solution is trees or large rocks, near the local weekend markets i have seen people put out signs saying 'no cars on grass'

        • Verge as in the road out front your house right? people here are talking about lawns, and stuff, it's rude to park on people's lawn, but I think out front of house on the road is alright?

        • @pyro love bird: the verge is the area between the property boundary and the kerb of the road. The road reserve/public land is usually wider than the road itself for footpaths/services.

        • @barleyshake: Oh no, isn't that common sense that it's part of someone's property? I thought this was on the kerb of the road, as in parallel park on the kerb kind of thing.

  • +6

    The reactions (via mystery negs) to this post in another thread makes me think that there are a good few OzBargainers who don't know what the laws are regarding customs in Australia… or why customs laws even exist.

    Really quite baffling. I'd genuinely love to hear why they negged the posts criticising someone who broke that law. Very very curious, actually :P

    • Rename to AsianBargains perhaps?

      • +1

        It isn't just Asians that do it :P

        edit: maybe that explains the negs? sigh.

        • +4

          The Asian/White thought is interesting when it comes to breaking laws that are known. If you look at the large number of Australians languishing in jails across Asia for breaking drug laws (possession), it tells you that most people who break the laws (customs, legal or others) are usually well aware of them but choose to do so anyhow. Hardly surprising that people take some risks when entering Australia especially when a death sentence is not one of the penalties!!

        • +1

          I'm just going with what is perhaps a rather limited perspective from watching border patrol and how it's always an Asian with a bag full of banned foodstuffs! Perhaps they edited out the Australian bogan?

        • @gevidian:
          Yeah well that is a good point! But the pay off isn't as good from food!

        • +3

          @bargdebarg: Yeah, that's true. I loved that TV show lol always Asians pretending to not know English, arguing that the food they have isn't really food (even though it is) lol classic.

          But it's a TV show - it's a filtered view of reality. They can edit whatever snippets they like together, and more often than not it'll be the most amusing instances they compile for the best sensationalist or comedic effect (which gets us viewers hooked). So yeah, the Asians sneaking (whether accidentally or on purpose) things in is usually pretty funny but they've also showed people from other parts of the world sneaking things in, so it's not unique to race. Not every Australian knows the Customs laws or fully understands WHY those rules are in place, either, so I have no doubt that there are Aussies out there bringing items in which aren't allowed… either without realising, or knowing that they're evading checks but are under the belief that what they're bringing in "can't possibly do any harm", ie. they don't get the flow on effect that one small act can have on the environment.

          I mean, I know of a case where Aussies would go overseas (to the US) and smuggle back animals on flights to then sell in southern NSW. They must've done it pretty regularly (or enough to get some decent breeding stock over here) because they grew enough demand over here for these exotic-ish animals. Long story short, a couple of friends of mine who are serious pet rat breeders confirmed that a disease unique to US rats had made it's way over here via that smuggling. The disease is terrible- fatal and easily passed on genetically. Once it's in the blood lines, it's pretty bloody awful (if not tragic). We never had that disease over here before… and fortunately it appears very limited here, if not almost eradicated or diluted enough genetically to not cause obvious widespread issues. So apply that same concept to humans or other animals, and imagine the damage that could be caused long term. I don't know whether everyone really grasps that… or would understanding that even change the behaviour of people who bring in things illegally (either due to ignorance/naivety or conscious decision).

          Anyway… I guess my point is that it's dangerous whoever does it, and even if Asians tend to do it more often… they aren't the only ones.

        • @waterlogged turnip: well said sir! /end thread

    • +2

      I sat next to a Swiss guy on an incoming flight to Australia. He said he's seen Border Security and that his friends ribbed him that he'll get arrested on arrival. He genuinely was more than a little concerned.

      Unfortunately many people get the idea from watching Border Security that Customs is there to give Asians a hard time for bringing in food similar to that which is sold at the corner store. People don't appreciate just why it's so important to screen meat, honey, banana, apple, etc imports into the country. Heck, where I live (SA) asks travelers to dispose of their fruit on arrival for good reason (fruit flies). Even carrying honey or potatoes from the mainland to Kangaroo Island is forbidden.

      http://www.sealink.com.au/about-kangaroo-island/caring-for-k…

  • +9

    I have heard many instances of Indian families coming to Australia, purchasing small businesses (grocery stores, petrol stations etc) slowly weeding out the existing employees and replacing them with their family members from overseas. Now, seeing as they are family members, they don't have to pay them the minimum wage and can get away with paying them bugger all, making local Australian people un-attractive as they cost more and have more strings attached leading to more local unemployment.

    From talking to various people, lawyers etc the take away is it is legal, very shady, dodgy and taking jobs from locals whilst importing their family here to work for lower money (which is probably a more than they would earn back home though). Unsure on the exact laws at work here, and I may have been spun a tale if it is indeed legal or not but I have 7 businesses I work with that have been ruined this way.

    • +1

      I have noticed that about the local petrol station, all the old employees are gone, but I think it's legal isn't it? Because the owner is here on business and you can bring your family over after that? (I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can?)

    • Is it 'illegal' to have family work in your business and underpay them (or not pay them at all)? Or is it perfectly legal to simply have family help out, and thus pay regulations don't apply? I always assumed it was one of those grey areas… curious to know what the deal is though!

    • +4

      I knew a Indian student once, worked for 7/11 he told me his wage was like $6 an hour but it was ok because he could do as many hours as he wished(instead of the 20hour limit on students). I read an article a while back on ABC news basically saying studies had shown the most abused worked were immigrants… working for other immigrants.

  • +2

    Love how this thread has gone from let's talk about things that aren't legal but some people may not realise into people having a chat about the minimum wage and dodgy businesses!

  • +18

    In America, once per year, citizens are legally allowed to commit crimes for 12 hours in an attempt to reduce crime rate throughout the year.

    • +3

      Purgeee!

    • +2

      wut

    • +1

      wtf…

    • +7

      For those wondering, The Purge is a 2013 American action horror film.

      In a futuristic America plagued by crime, the government sanctions a 12-hour period once a year in which all criminal activity is legal. When an intruder breaks into the home of James Sandin and his family, they must try to survive the night without compromising their personal moral code.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purge

      Some kids joked online that the Purge was coming to their town, media took it seriously and made a big public fuss, and for the night in question, the police got backup in case any idiots thought it was real.

  • +12

    Kogan. Bait and switch
    Dick Smith. Taking money, won't deliver anything, refund only turns up when requested
    Harvery Norman. Won't facilitate returns in store. They always tell me that my only option to get a refund it by contacting the manufacturer.

  • +2

    Raw milk is illegal in Australia. Like drug-style police raid illegal (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-16/farmer-raided-for-supp…).

    Herd-share is a grey area. You buy a share, say 1%, of a herd and thus are entitled to 1% of the milk produced - the farmer is just maintaining the cows on the shareholder's behalf. It's not illegal to drink your own raw milk.

    The other grey area is "bath" milk - it's not being sold for drinking, but rather for the healing properties of the milk when you dunk yourself in it.

    • In SA, it didn't say anything about the rest of Aust?

      Anyway, that's a weird one! Buying a share of a cow, bathing in milk?

      • +1

        Yeah same for rest of Aus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_milk#Australia). Gotta admit, they're creative loopholes.

        • +1

          The dairy farm that makes Cleopatra's bath milk say they have a list of alternate names should 'bath milk' be outlawed. One I recall is "tennis court line marking paint" :)

    • +7

      It's not illegal to drink your own raw milk.

      That's what she said lol

      • +3

        -___-

      • +2

        I'm on the weird side of Youtube again…thanks Miz Turnip

    • To understand why they don't like it being sold, just realise that a better description for raw milk is fæces milk.

  • +1

    make a complaint to your union. Oh wait thats right everyone hates unions because they listen to the media.

    • +7

      Do the unions listen to the media?

  • Doing a wee on the front left hand wheel of your car….

    • That should be OK if you do it on private land and not publicly visible.

    • But how else are we meant to warm up our tyres before a long drive? :(

    • +1

      After watching Crusty Demons one year, I needed to urinate while waiting in the traffic jam getting out. There was a 4WD in a field in the darkness, so I ran up to it (next to front left tyre, not on) and let the snake drain. The tinting was very dark.. then the window went down.. I apologized and kept going then ran back to my mates in the car who, by that time, also noticed the people in the car. Not sure if illegal :)

  • "Unless you're a licensed electrician, it's illegal to change a lightbulb in Victoria"
    Have heard this a few times, not 100% sure if it's legit.

    • +1

      It is illegal to do fixed wiring. Changing bulbs, fuses etc is fine. Changing/repairing cords and plugs is also fine.

  • +5

    Public Service - surprising place I'm seen lots of dodgy employment practices:

    Keeping people on temporary contracts for decades so they'll never get a redundancy

    Overtime written up as if its a separate casual employee, and when you hit max hours (i.e. 'casual' overtime?) repeated as another casual employee….

    Hourly award change scam e.g. work for 10 hours , get paid 1 hour on the expected award and 9 hours on the lowest admin award because you were photocopying and so on

    Changing someones classification after they've started and cutting their pay by $40k just for laughs

    And just really weird stuff like taking real plants out of the office and replacing them with B/W photocopies of plants

  • Isn't there a weird law that makes sharing a youtube link illegal?

  • Earlier this year, I was told that hamsters, gerbils, etc. were illegal to keep as pets in Australia. I understand why now but at the time, I was baffled LOL

    • We can't have hamsters?!

      • +3

        If you released them into wild, they may start breeding and threaten native flora and fauna. Basically they are banned because they might over-populate and cause all sorts of problems.

        Guinea pigs are OK because they were introduced long ago and have basically become domesticated (cannot live in the wild).

        Plus, they are much cuter than hamsters.. D'aaaaawwww.

        Also, rabbits are banned in QLD. The fine is $44,000. Holy crap.

        • +3

          Ferrets are also banned in QLD, but are allowed elsewhere in Australia.

          Ferrets are freaking adorable and so cheeky.

          Guinea pigs are also super cute… but weird when they're hairless lol.

          I have rats and rabbits. Rats are amazing. Most intelligent of them all - think tiny puppies, only much cleaner lol.

          Rabbits 'binkying' with joy is hilariously awesome.

        • +2

          “These rabbits are rodents and are viewed by Queensland as pests.” — Cr. Bartley

          Apparently they do zoology differently North of the border.

        • I didn't know that! and that picture, gosh darn, I want one, I shall call it Fluffy

        • @waterlogged turnip: I think that people have this negative image when it comes to rats (associate them with sewer rats etc) I think they're cute, and ferrets! my god, I want one of those too! Perhaps I should just start a mini zoo full of pets?

        • +1

          @Boshait:

          I love rabbits and am unfortunate to live in Queensland (in more ways than one)

  • My wife didn't know that Writing on Currency Notes is Illegal in many countries.

  • The sale of pornography in NSW is illegal.

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