I am in a dilemma. Should I ask her to pay up?

[Deactivated] on 24/12/2014 - 06:13
Last edited 24/12/2014 - 06:36

Hi ozbargainers

We own a hair salon. Long story short, we do people's hair for weddings. Recently,one of my employee's daughter got married. So we did bride's hair , bridesmaids' hair, groom's hair , best men's hair all in one day. We tried to help out. My employee said she will foot the entire bill which total about $900 but will only be able to do so after Xmas when she is expecting to run into some money. I agreed.
Now comes the twist, 2 days ago I heard the tragic news that the bride and groom got into car accident and passed away while honeymooning overseas.

Now I am facing the dilemma, morally I think I should just write off the debt but on the other hand a debt is a debt, I delivered the service , my employee should pay up . Should I wait a little longer in new year till everything settles down , then bring up the debt issue?
I am also facing the fact that I will have to pay her some compassionate leaves which will total about $300. And her Xmas bonus this year is another $250.

What would you do?

General Discussion

Comments

  • ankor on 27/12/2014 - 15:23

    We still don't know if the OP has verified if the employee's kids have actually died overseas. Has this happened yet?

  • pitufon on 27/12/2014 - 16:02
    +4

    Can't believe you need to ask. She lost her daughter.

  • razorack999 on 27/12/2014 - 16:06
    -2

    I can see why many say australians have a sense of entitlement. that attitude pervades many of the postings in this thread.
    The "bad"employer with money , should look after the "good "employee.
    Leave it up to the OP and stop being judgemental.

    • brilliantthings on 27/12/2014 - 16:11

      Leave it up to the OP and stop being judgemental.

      That'd make a riveting forum

      • ankor on 27/12/2014 - 17:40

        What, we're supposed to talk only about bargains?!

    • iridiumstem on 27/12/2014 - 16:28
      +1

      OP was asking an opinion though. I tried to be as fair as possible, but he clearly want us to support him and is not willing to listen to other opinions.

      That being said, I tend to hold amoral stance in these things and I still think he should do an analysis of outcomes that he would get for each situations, and go with the one that benefits him.

      Reasons can be morally or financially driven but I personally see that most choices that he faces would have both monetary benefits/losses and other benefits/losses.

      I've already gave my opinion out, saying that I'd be swaying more for waiving or reducing debt, but that one is not purely out of moral obligations nor purely out of monetary reasons.

    • valour on 27/12/2014 - 21:27
      +1

      Yet the OP has stated that they are miffed that the employee won't give him extra time that he doesn't employ her for "My comment was last to arrive first to leave does not imply she is late for work and leave early but simply arriving at8.59am for a customer booking of 9am. The moment the clock hits 5pm she won't stay a second more". Seems the OP feels he is entitled to her time without paying her, whereas other workers must be giving them their time for nothing. Employers like this is the very reason employment laws had to be written, such as the ones the OP is whining about about (unfair dismissal, compassionate leave etc)

      • phluffed on 28/12/2014 - 19:10

        Rubbish.
        There's a HUGE difference in attitude from a worker who walks in the door at 8:59 and leaves at 5pm when compared to a worker who arrives at 8:45am and leaves at 5:15pm. It's not about getting an extra 30mins work for free (OP has said, workers are payed OT if they work late), it's about work ethic. I highly doubt that the worker who turns up at 8:59am for a 9am appointment is ready to even start on that client at 9:25am by the time they put all their stuff down, chat to the other staff, make a coffee, set up their area etc. You say "Seems the OP feels he is entitled to her time without paying her", so should the OP only start paying from 9:25am when the employee ACTUALLY starts to work? You can't have it both ways.

        Read the comments again without your prejudice and it adds up to a worker who does the absolute minimum required to maintain their job (and apparently not even that at times if they have had written warnings). The sort of employee who, if stupid enough to use you as a reference because they are trying for another job, gets the "Is such an amazing employee and an asset to your team if you hire her!" reference in the hope they leave quicker!

  • poppit88 on 27/12/2014 - 17:39
    +3

    Well, we have posts that the OP is worth $1.5million & only ever travels business class. (Allegedly, because we can all say anything on the Internet.)

    Those with the most money are invariably those that never wish to part with it. Probably why they've got a bank full of $$$ in the first place.

    And while we're on the subject if you owe the bank a debt, the ATO a debt and die, yes you still owe that debt. They put a claim into your estate when probate goes through. They are nameless entities, not individuals in the business of having a personal relationship or sharing a personal connection to you.

    All I can say is what goes around comes around!

    And you think I don't put my money where my mouth is. I have a lovely friend who intermittently lives with me as a housemate. When he arrived in Australia last year, he's had terrible problems getting a well paying job. Yes, he still gave me board, but I refused to take money off him for the Electricity, Gas, Phone and Internet.

    The bills were no different price wise to when he wasn't here, so I had no intention of 'making money off him,' when he is hear working his backside off to save for his family to come here also.

    In short, he's someone I care for. You look out for the people you care for and show a bit of humanity towards them.

  • sagitox on 27/12/2014 - 18:05

    Very sad news. Just forget about it. Life is short. I think she has enough to worry about at the moment, plus now she has to worry about funeral costs, ect. If she finds the money in the future and pays, she pays. If not, I would just consider it was a wedding present to them/donation/charity whatever you want to call it.

  • JackieChan on 27/12/2014 - 18:14

    (1) The compassionate leaves and the Xmas bonus are different issues. You should still pay these regardless.

    (2) Definitely don't raise the debt issue at this sensitive time!

    (3) There are 2 options worth considering :

    …… a) Forgive the entire debt (if you can and willing)
    …… b) Charge her only for the cost you incurred (ie, forgo the profit)

    (4) If you do decide to charge, then consider letting her do overtime work in lieu of actual cash payment.

    Good luck!

    • JackieChan on 27/12/2014 - 18:24

      @Iamgenerous, just saw your latest comment from 3 hours ago above.

      That makes a difference. Should have mentioned it in your original post.

      But it would still be worthwhile to stay on the generous side. I would say give her a discount.

      And in any case, points (1), (2), and (4) in my comment above still applies

  • stemcell on 27/12/2014 - 22:22
    +2

    So we're 3 pages have some people actually died (confirmed) or is it just a story from a lonely person at Christmas?.

    • brilliantthings on 28/12/2014 - 09:32
      +2

      Even lonely people don't tend to make up stories about their children dying.

  • anonymous8 on 28/12/2014 - 03:29
    +1

    Its only money. If what you said is true I would feel ashamed to accept a dime.

  • Cusack on 28/12/2014 - 09:41
    +17

    Everyone stop wasting your time with this. Sounds like Iamgenerous has an ulterior motive because none of this makes sense.
    1. I have not seen any news articles of a honeymoon couple dying tragically overseas. Something like this would be on the news, even a small report. Why dont you link an article or give the country where they died (heck you've given enough other details anyway).
    2. As a business owner myself I would expect these kind of decisions to be hard but quick to make. You either give or take but either way you make a hard decision quickly and MOVE ON. I definitely wouldn't need moral advice from the 'internet'!!. Your attitude definitely does not match a business owner.
    3. As business owner (or a manager), how unprofessional of you to actually post something like this and provide details, as well as explaining what a poor performer the employee is.
    4. Your name doesn't match your attitude and replies.
    So stop wasting everyone's time. And if you're actually in this situation, then grow some BALLS and make a decision yourself FFS!

    • djones145 on 28/12/2014 - 12:17
      +3

      he's a troll
      but its fun! nothing else to do on holidays!
      must FEED THE TROLL

      I reckon he is right
      he should chase the money
      all tat way!

    • secondstory on 28/12/2014 - 18:28
      -4

      I'm not really trying to defend, but these arguments probably aren't enough to throw accusations at people - so here is your food.

      1. News here happens to be busy with sieges down the east coast. I'm sure you've managed to read every single article in every language in the entire world but I'm sure it's entirely within the limits of a human being to overlook a news article if there was one at all, and I'm sure there is at least more than a 0% chance that it wasn't reported on.. I mean, more terrible incidents happen everyday everywhere. The fact that they were on a honeymoon may seem more significant but to passers by they may have just looked like a couple on a holiday, which would not be a "scoop".

      2. Regardless of whether or not there were other motivations behind the post I wouldn't think it appropriate to publicly provide a link to an article if it did exist. The other details provided are generic enough in the first place that you cant identify the family involved anyways.

      3. Not all people who own businesses are going to be so hard-lined "business minded". Some people have enough compassion to at least use the time to consider the circumstances of people with fresh-dead family.

      4. Does it even have to have anything to do with that? Sarcasm? Maybe OP was too generous at some stage and got taken advantage too much and wised up - but the name stuck. Just laugh off the irony.

      I happen to enjoy spending time reading these threads. If it's a waste of time to you then calm down and read elsewhere or try not to get so angry at it and waste more time on a reply. It's not a weakness to ask for opinions or help. OP might just want to read other peoples genuine views on a hypothetical situation. No harm done.

      • Cusack on 28/12/2014 - 22:11
        +6

        Wait a minute, hold on… So you actually believe his story?? HAHAHA

      • Cantdecide on 31/12/2014 - 13:59
        +2

        Around 1000 Australians die overseas every year … most dont make the news even if on honeymoon.

        But OP is probably trolling and should be nice and fat with all the troll food given to them!

  • snook on 28/12/2014 - 13:46
    +2

    lol maybe iamgenerous is the employee that owes the employer $900 and is trying to think of ways he can get out of paying … and this is the best he could come up with.

    If this were a real story of dual honeymoon death, there would definitely be a news report somewhere.

  • Quaker on 28/12/2014 - 19:34

    I would ask the employee to provide a death certificate. If the employee's daughter did die, then I would write off the $900, and learn from it - next time ask for a partial payment prior to the service being provided.

  • abacus on 29/12/2014 - 00:22
    +8

    I can't believe what I am reading. Two people dead and you want to chase money that probably cost you $200. You probably wouldn't blink to buy that much in clothes or a phone as a present. Shame on you. Hopefully you are only trolling.

  • eatwell365 on 29/12/2014 - 08:20

    Bekieve it or not? OP name tag is "I am generous,"

  • dts88 on 29/12/2014 - 11:08
    +5

    What's your saloon name and the location?

    We may make you lose more customers.

    • xuqi on 29/12/2014 - 14:37
      +2

      May as well be a Saloon.

  • Rajeshk on 29/12/2014 - 12:49
    +1

    This is one of the rarest opportunity you got. Don't want anybody to be in this position but i suggest try to wipe the debt off and be proud of yourself.

  • sulmar on 29/12/2014 - 13:00
    +2

    Op would probably be proud if he somehow managed to grab every cent of that $900.

  • cdeep0 on 29/12/2014 - 15:08

    I feel like saying so much but after so many comments a transformation would have occurred already….Am I correct?
    If NOT - Don't bother.

  • gimli on 29/12/2014 - 20:08
    +3

    This is obviously a troll

    • mit on 30/12/2014 - 12:51
      -2

      if so, she wasted at least 30 mins of her own time revising the damn spiel. unlikely, but possible.

      • gimli on 30/12/2014 - 18:41

        Trolls enjoy it.

        (PS takes one to know one)

  • abacus on 30/12/2014 - 00:09

    If she is a troll, she has successfully wasted hundred's of man hours of time.

  • snook on 30/12/2014 - 14:37

    Original debt started at $800 and was revised to $900 after 10 minutes, with the addition of $300 compassionate leave, and then 250 was added for xmas bonus.

    So Op was not even sure of own debt initially and had to think about it for 10 minutes.

  • Tuttorix on 30/12/2014 - 14:50

    I just want to say that most OzBargainers have covered it throughout the comments.

    Be human basically.

  • momov3 on 30/12/2014 - 20:54
    +2

    If only you read OP's other posts, you would almost be forgiven for suspecting him/her to be a troll with too much time on his/ her hands. Have you read the one asking OZBargainers how they met the love of their life? I mean, what relevance for goodness sake does that question have to do on this bargain site? And then, what we keep in our wallets. And then what personal financial position you are in aka 'how much is your net worth?' My best bet is (and this happens a lot during school/uni/college breaks when the 'kids' have nothing to do so troll on the internet for a good good laugh) this person is a young and very bored person up to mischief. As well as enjoying the replies and responses to his fake plight, you have all been suckered in, so have I. Notice how quiet he/she is and has not responded to anymore of the many advice given? There is absolutely NO way a honeymooning couple would have both died tragically near Christmas time without it being headlines, we read about British honeymooning couples and American honeymooning couples dying tragically in places faraway, and this supposedly a local couple not publicised?

  • bondy28 on 31/12/2014 - 00:09
    +1

    You are not in a dilemna…
    huMAN up. If your child died and owed you money would you ask their significant other to pay you back.
    I would avoid your business if I knew the name based merely on how you are acting. If you are hard pressed for funds at least wait till she has grieved before bringing up repayment of the NON PROFIT portion of the work done.

  • coin saver on 31/12/2014 - 20:42
    +5

    To put it quite mildy Iamgenerous is a troll or an arsehole either way this thread should be closed to discourage this type of person from this site..The only other explanation that i can see for Iamgenerous's behavior is that he/she is a uni student using us to think for them.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/01/2015 - 02:18
    +1

    i just lost a colleague on NYD in a car crash. he had a ~$100 tab on my till system. i immediately voided the whole thing.

  • shaybisc on 02/01/2015 - 06:43

    Reads like an exercise at the end of the chapter in an ethics textbook. I see it from both sides. If I was you, there is no way I would even mention it for a long period of time, if ever, and I would book it as a write-off now. If I was the grieving employee there is no way I would use my daughter's death to squib a debt. That would leave a very bad taste in my mouth were I the employee.

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