Tipping in Australia

I wanted to get peoples reasonable arguments for and against, for tipping in Australia.

Firstly, Australia's minimum wage is much higher than most countries. And in addition to this, very often the restaurateurs are forced to pay above minimum wage. Add to this the penalty rates that apply and SOME hospitality staff are very well paid on a global comparison basis.
I know some restaurateurs who struggle with the high rents and wages and barely cover their costs with food. They rely increasingly on wine to make a profit.
The issue of
a whether a tip should be expected
b if so how much?

I can work in a lower priced restaurant /bistro which is byo and typically the bill might come to $30-50 per head. Or I might work at a takeaway food place. I would be paid the same per hour. I would be working hard as the turnover of customers is quicker.
Or I could work at a high priced restaurant with an expensive wine list, far fewer clients and I would not work nearly as hard. I am also likely to be earning a higher base wage.
In the first scenario, I would be less likely to be tipped, but if I received a tip it would be for $3-5 per head on top of my likely minimum hourly rate
In the second scenario where the customer is encouraged to order expensive wine, it is not uncommon for the wine bill to be more than the food. A total bill of $150 per head is not uncommon and so a 10% tip is $15 per head on top of a higher hourly rate. Remember I am working less intensely than the waiter in the first scenario as well.

Should 10% of the bill (if at all in australia) be the expected tip REGARDLESS of how high the bill is? Or is a flat fee more appropriate?
Should we tip at all if the service is only just ok? In other words the waiter is just dumping the food on the table, and not adding anything else to your dining experience.

In recent times I have been shocked at the introduction in restaurants of the credit card terminal that specifically asks for you to enter a tip. In many cases I have observed the waiting staff not only looking at the amount as it is being entered, but also entering into a conversation about the amount that was being tipped. I find this all a bit rude and presumptive. The sense of entitlement that some of these waiters have over what is an elective gift of appreciation I personally find offensive.

Personally for the record, I will not tip in australia if I feel that the waiter has not been friendly, or has been abrupt, intrusive, or ill informed. If on the other hand , they have really added to our dining experience I am more than happy to tip. How much I tip is not related to the size of the bill. if we are eating somewhere cheap, and I feel like a tip is deserved then I will often tip more than 10%. On the other hand if the evening has been a celebration and the bill has become much bigger I am often tipping less than 10%

What do others think about the issue of tipping and the etiquette that goes with it?

Poll Options

  • 4
    I agree that a 10% tip in Australia should always apply
  • 568
    I don't agree that a 10% tip in Australia should always apply

Comments

  • +2

    In recent times I have been shocked at the introduction in restaurants of the credit card terminal that specifically asks for you to enter a tip.

    I think this has come in because of the move to PIN-only transactions rather than pen and paper signatures we had up until mid-2014.

    On the topic of tipping though, I just don't bother as a rule, and believe there should never be any obligation or custom requiring it in the future. Having travelled to the USA and experienced its Byzantine "meal cost + sales tax + 15% or more tip on the cost of the meal but not including the sales tax" system of paying at restaurants, I'd rather stick with our much easier method of paying what it actually says on the receipt.

    Moving towards a more formal system of tipping will give restauranteurs more ammunition to argue for wage cuts, and the last thing I'd want to see is vulnerable people stuck working multiple hospitality jobs for tiny wages, entirely reliant on patron goodwill to make a living wage. Sure, I can sympathise with labour costs forming the largest part of owners' liabilities, but that's always been the case where business owners hire staff - if you start a business and don't make an effort to crunch the numbers beforehand, tough luck if you hit the skids along the way.

  • Many issues

    Why should I make up the staff wages when the cafe, bar, rest., can't compete on a fair trading field. The staff deserved to be paid and more on holidays, I am happy to pay holiday rates provided the food is worth it not the same as Mon to Fri.

    There is a local well named hotel/bar/ good?food place near here, which got caught underpaying staff, average back pay $3k for that part of year. Solution you can keep you're job but you will have to pay me back at end of year!. My informant quit then international uni student not a dumb.i
    And what really pisses me is the guaranteed tips that ceo's get for just doing or almost doing their job. We have too much USA rot, or if it could be got away with it 2nd & 3rd world conditions.

    Coys should rember Henry Ford, wages and product price were
    Aligned so they could buy his cars. He wasn't looking for his tip.
    Aligned

  • The last paragraph of the original post sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

    • +2

      I swear I can't understand the last post. It looks like a scripted message, that pieces together random sentences.

  • You are asking the wrong crowd.

  • -1

    I have worked in the services industry for two years.

    I am likely to try and provide exceptional service beyond whats expected if I believe I may receive a tip.

    Without this incentive, I will give everyone standard service so long as I keep my job and my manager is happy.

    And I do target certain customers with greater service.

    For an example, from my experience Asians and Indians rarely tip while caucasians in business suits are more likely to tip, so I allocate my time and resources accordingly.

    May be stereotyping but it's true most of the time.

    I am asian and rarely tip myself.

    When will we asians/indians ever learn.. too cheap lol.

    • I guess it goes with the culture.

      I am of Indian descent and my partner is Chinese - we are yet to find an Indian or Asian place where the service is worth tipping.

      When you grow up with that then it is hard to change.

      • +1

        viet/thai have better service, yeah chinese places have a weird sort of service culture,

    • +1

      "I am likely to try and provide exceptional service beyond whats expected if I believe I may receive a tip"

      Good to see you take such pride in your work.

      "For an example, from my experience Asians and Indians rarely tip while caucasians in business suits are more likely to tip, so I allocate my time and resources accordingly"

      And good on you for promoting stereotypes.

      The reason we're having this discussion at all and why Australia seems to be going to the sh*tter in terms of friendliness and service obviously has nothing to do with you.

      So proud of what we're becoming.

      • -1

        "Good to see you take such pride in your work."
        I do, thank you.

        "And good on you for promoting stereotypes."
        It's true most of the time though. For an example, internet trolls are probably fat virgins. You might not be one, but it's probably true. Only you know.

        "The reason we're having this discussion at all and why Australia seems to be going to the sh*tter in terms of friendliness and service obviously has nothing to do with you."
        I work in the services industry in Australia and receive tips through my job, so this discussion IS relevant to me, but thank you for your concern.

        Honestly, your post doesn't really contribute to the topic besides being "proud of what we're becoming".
        But good on ya anyway!!

        Lets be friends! You are so cool!

        • Point made perfectly. No need for me to add anything.

    • +2

      I have worked in the services industry for 8 years.

      The only people that I don't do my best to please are the ones that act like absolute DHs to me (ie. yelling at me, being completely unreasonable, etc.)

      Even if someone was to come up to me upset wanting to make a complaint I would still do my best to turn their experience around.

      All this and I do not expect to be tipped - I get paid enough for an unqualified job with little responsibility.

    • So you provide mediocre/bare minimum service to your Asian customers because your not expecting a tip.
      Being Asian yourself, you should know that our culture don't like to reward mediocrity :P

      • -1

        I never said I give bare minimum service.
        The point I'm trying to make is if you're not going to tip (known to not tip), then there is less incentive to provide service BEYOND what is expected.

        It's okay to be cheap and not tip. But don't you dare accuse me of providing bare minimum when I never implied or stated it and you don't even know who I am or what I do.

        I'm not asking anyone to change their stingy ways. Just want you to understand a different perspective regardless of whether you agree or not.

        • -1

          "For an example, from my experience Asians and Indians rarely tip while caucasians in business suits are more likely to tip, so I allocate my time and resources accordingly"

          So now because you discriminate and give Asians and Indians a lesser service they never give you a tip.They will also tell their friends about you costing the business money and potentially your job.

          I am likely to try and provide exceptional service beyond whats expected if I believe I may receive a tip.Without this incentive, I will give everyone standard service so long as I keep my job and my manager is happy

          If i was your manager i would fire you for costing the business money.

        • @coin saver: > If i was your manager i would fire you for costing the business money.

          And you would have a unfair dismissal case on your hands.

          No way you could prove that they were "costing the business money"

          I will give everyone standard service so long as I keep my job and my manager is happy

          The exceptional service only gets rolled out for the big tippers, the suits that probably have a bigger spend.
          (And are charging to someone else anyway)

        • @Baysew: In Australia it is illegal to discriminate on any grounds (without court approval)by giving two levels of service based on race that alone is enough grounds for termination after a warning.

        • @coin saver: What happened to the dismissal based on "costing the business money" ?

        • @Baysew: That would be his motivation . By the way if the owner of the business lost a number of regular customers and obtained declarations to that effect stating the cause he could also dismiss on the grounds of bringing the business into disrepute.

        • @coin saver:
          You guys crack me up

  • Check this out, video from Adam Conover
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k
    I agree with Adam on this one, tipping works for no one, US should change their system and we should resist it adopted here..

  • I have never tipped (in Perth) and i have never seen any place asking for tips (except those little jars). If the food and drink was not so ridiculously expensive then i would.

  • Tip whenever you feel like it. But don't u just hate when they hand over very loose change on purpose.

  • US employers in hospitality pay lower wages therefore their prices should be lower than high minimum wages and penalties Australia- is that in fact the case?

  • Going abit off topic here. But I just got to say this.
    In Singapore, tipping is forced upon you. When you get the bill, you will see a 10% service charge that has been included in the total bill.
    Not forgetting the 7% GST that has been added in as well!

    • you have to wonder who gets this service charge. the owner or the waiter.
      I also wonder what sort of hourly rate they get in sing?

      • Hourly rates are a fraction of Australia's.
        A few years back, I remember walking past a restaurant advertising for a waiter/waitress position.
        Rates were $6-8 per hour depending on experience. $10 for weekends. I think if you work at maccers it'll be even lower, possibly $3-5 an hour.

        I have no idea who gets the service charge, but my if I had to bet, I'd say the owner.

  • +2

    Dont tip. This isnt america. Do NOT encourage the practice of tipping to become the norm

  • +1

    OTOH, when in Rome … Please tip when visiting the US. They depend on it. Yes, it is annoying, just like sales tax not being included in the price.
    But don't take it out on the guy making $6/hr.
    Conversely, if someone refuses a tip, apologise. They have well defined rules about who is tipped.

    • +1

      but in the US the restaurants are far cheaper to start with - at least that is my experience. So even if you have to add 15% it is still way cheaper than OZ

    • Interesting articles

      I found this interesting "At the end of the shift, they get either $US10 an hour or 20% of their food sales, whichever is more."

      Which amounts to a form of commission or profit sharing.

  • I have never given a tip to anyone ever, and I would only give a tip in exceptional circumstances.

    This is Australia not America and it's expensive enough to live here as it is.

    • +1

      Considering most waiters/servers are on less than 50K p.a, I don't mind tipping a small amount because I also recognise Australia as an expensive place to live. I'll never tip more than 10%, and it only be for exceptional service. I wouldn't tip otherwise.

  • just returned from a trip to London and Singapore pretty much everywhere added on 10% service charge to all meals apprantly it was "optional" but we were never asked.

  • Just some thoughts. In a family restaurant a waiter can get a family of two kids/two adults. To feed the 4, I would imagine their bill would get close to $50 (don't know USA restaurant prices). Get two of those an hour with tips at 20% and they could easily be getting $20 an hour, which I don't think it relatively too far off from what hospitality staff own here.

    • That may be true. So in other words the waiters in AUS and US are being paid similar amounts. The big difference is of course, that the US waiter receives less income if the restaurant is empty - just like the owner.

      As most owners do not make more than 10% of their turnover (they are struggling in this expensive country called australia) they are effectively in the same boat as the waiter who also receives 10% of the turnover (in tips). Effectively this is a form of profit sharing based on turnover. Of course the waiter shares none of the losses when the restaurant is empty. A pretty good deal in that respect

      In australia the waiters are lucky enough to be double dipping - they get the high hourly rate and the 10% of turnover that the owner makes- so he is effectively doing better than the owner financially.

      In the US the waiters do not get the high hourly rate, but do get the say 15% of the turnover. But when the restaurant is empty they only make a small amount per hour ( no tips) Just like the owner who is making nothing/making a loss. But at least the owner is not saddled with the burden of high wages REGARDLESS of whether there are customers or not. In this case the Waiter is not double dipping , and his wages automatically adjust down when the owner most needs them to ie when the restaurant is empty. Sounds fairer all round to me, even though as you have pointed out , the waiters are earning similar amounts after tips in the US

      • Lol, I like how you are very much looking at it from both sides.

        Just to clarify, in the 3rd paragraph, are you referring to tipping actually being a regular occurrence in Australia.

        My personal thoughts for Australia: tipping should not be mandatory or expected. If some people want to tip for good service, that's fine. The moment the waiter feels a sense of entitlement to a tip, they need to be shut back down.

        As far as sales go, a good manager/owner should be able to staff accordingly and therefore wages as a percentage of sales should not fluctuate too largely.

        I don't believe it should be the customer's job to remunerate the employee based on their performance/customer service, etc. I believe that it should be the case that if you were very happy or disappointed with your service to advise the manager/owner and the manager/owner should take appropriate action.

        As you have now put it in terms of the waiter "sharing" in the sales of a restaurant, it's beginning to sound more communist. I don't believe tipping in the USA is a legal requirement, but obviously with such low wages it's a socially concious thing to do.

        • -2

          I believe that in certain restaurant sectors , yes absolutely, tipping is expected and is a regular occurrence. It is in these higher end restaurants that the tipping occurs. Now before others point out that these restaurants are frequented by rich people who can afford it, so why not etc, I would like to point out that those restaurants employ waiters on much higher wages to start off with, and they effectively double the total bill with their outrageous charges on wine. So based on the food bill which is 50% of the bill a 10% tip is roughly 20% of the food bill!

          I think we agree on the tipping - it should not be mandatory. And it certainly is not the paying customers job to remunerate the employee in Australia. but that is in fact what happens in the US is it not?

          I would argue that many owners are either not good managers, or are forced by restrictive inflexible labour laws into overstaffing frequently. I dont think we can assume that all owners are necessarily savvy business people. In fact I would argue that given the returns that they are mad! Some of course are fantastically creative entrepreneurs who own and run multiple establishments, but they are the minority.

          The profit sharing concept was not meant to sound communist. I dont think it is. More an informal joint venture!

        • @razorack999: You are either a restaurant owner doing research a (profanity)a uni student or a troll

  • +2

    I used to work in the service industry and even I don't tip. If I have some loose change or if the the group bill can't be neatly split, sure, I'll give them a little extra but I don't automatically calculate how much someone deserves based on the bill. Tipping is par for the course in USA because their minimum wage is dogshit whereas ours is a more reasonable ~$15-20/hr depending on age. No one is starving in Australia for lack of tips.

  • +1

    Depends if your talking cafe's or restaurants.
    For cafe's - if the barrista etc is friendly or nice, then I'll usually drop any loose change in the tips jar.
    For a restaurant - I generally only tip if the service and food were excellent - with an amount of about 10% roughly.

  • For those decrying wait staff being paid low wages, you do remember that wait staff is a low skilled job right?

    I generally round up, but will tip upto 5% if the service is exceptional.

    If I was a bleeding heart, I wouldn't be tipping 10%-20%… I'd be handing over "cash" to the wait staff hand to ensure they get it. So called high tippers are either 'don't really care' or just plain ignorant.

    In the US of course 15%-20%

    There are high end restaurants in Australia now that screw their waitstaff on wages based on the fact that they get high tips.

    • "' There are high end restaurants in Australia now that screw their waitstaff on wages based on the fact that they get high tips "

      I hadnt thought of that. But still at the end of the day the employee has the choice whether he wants to work there or not based on being screwed every night.

  • i <3 people who tip :) theyre the best!
    we use it for things we can buy for our store!
    we saved tips for a kettle so we could make coffee! yay

    i only give tips to good service

  • +1

    give tips is like throwing coins at beggars. Literally. Please don't encourage tipping (a form of begging). Let the waiters have some self respect, rather than eat off donated coins and bits to feed their lifestyle.

    Tipping encourages begging and unethical practices.

    • +2

      Just read some of the comments here out of boredom.

      On the idea that you provide less service to those you believe don't tip. If this is substantial enough that those people don't come back, you're screwing the business and maybe your own employment.

      Wait staff are paid a sufficient wage for a low sklill job. Good business owners should be rewarding good staff, bad staff will screw return clientele and reputation,. A good business owner will sack those who aren't giving everyone good treatment, regardless of tips.

      • I will give you a vote only because i can not do half votes.

        On the idea that you provide less service to those you believe don't tip. If this is substantial enough that those people don't come back, you're screwing the business and maybe your own employment.

        .. I totally agree.

        Wait staff are paid a sufficient wage for a low sklill job.

        I will have to disagree. It takes skill, knowledge, patience, tolerance,and experience to serve the arrogant people who think you are low skilled when they have none of these skills themselves

        Good business owners should be rewarding good staff,

        I agree but they don't they pay minimum wage at best.

        A good business owner will sack those who aren't giving everyone good treatment,

        .So he should ..After giving training and advice.But the stereotyping as quoted here

        For an example, from my experience Asians and Indians rarely tip while caucasians in business suits are more likely to tip, so I allocate my time and resources accordingly.

        should not be tolerated in any circumstance

  • +3

    The only tipping we do, is cow tipping.

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