Received this coupon code discount in my inbox. CMI is celebrating Australia Day by giving away a special discount coupon— which expires at midnight tomorrow.
Use the following coupon code at checkout when you shop at creation.com/store
@brucefromaustralia: Until they change the deal posting guidelines then there is freedom here to post religious deals. As far as your concern for others who might be misled, don't we all have the ability to make up our own minds? So what if someone is 'misled' anyway? How does it effect you? I won't be commenting on this thread anymore. We've both made it clear what we put our faith in.
@brucefromaustralia:
How rich of you to say you are upset over people's beliefs being attacked when you have been doing the same! Is does the same.
Fundamentalism 101
Appeal to emotions with weak arguments
Well, If I saw a "$25 off Perpetual motion machine plans Australia Day Sale" offer on OzB I'd neg that as well. For the same reasons.
@Moderator, please removes the Negs those who are not following Voting guidelines
:-( Come on Ozbargainers - I am a biologist, and spent many a frustrating year arguing against Fund [send money] Amentalist [without thinking] special pleading in many fora, but this is not one of those areas. My first gut instinct was to neg the deal, but if that was a legit neg, then I'd be here blatting special deals on milk-powder with a bit of kelp at $50 a kilo,vitamin pills, glittery bits of quartz and carbon crystal stuck in shiny metal [as used to buy Manhattan Island ] and a whole host of other things that others may want, but I have little interest in.
The OP considers this a deal, and has put it up for others who may agree with him. I would consider any of the publications pollution even if they were shredded and offered to my worm farm - but I did what I thought was appropriate - I passed on the deal.
I'm all for tolerance, but not where a belief is being promoted which attacks others beliefs, considered thinking, occupation, and Science.
Fundamentalism is never good & should be challenged.
You must have been to Logan City in Apple tossing time….
Pity I don't get the reference.
Logan is 30 minute drive, but I'm usually located outside of Australia.
Yet your belief of tolerance is attacking this belief? This and your previous posts would contradict your statements. Given the amount of comments you have made - you feel quite strongly about it as well. Tolerance isn't the real issue here it would seem.
You seem convinced that a dozen PhD scientists are unscientific in their pursuit and are dogmatic about this being fundamentalism. You could just pass on this deal though. But why all the negative comments?
These are publications to prove a claim. Scientific publications are reports regarding the provisional acceptance of hypothesis that have explanatory power and have failed to be disproved. This garbage being proffered has as much relevance to scientific enquiry as astrology did to Philae landing on a comet.
Just because some one with a PhD wrote something on support of your beliefs, does not make it true.
For many, they don't know how to critically read research articles. Just saying th at someone proved something is not good enough. Even if 100 people with PhDs support your religious belief, it still should be examined critically. That's why scientific research appears in peer reviewed journals, often difficult for the ordinary person to access, let alone understand.
It is this attack on intellectual freedom, masquerading as religious beliefs that must be unquestionably tolerated, that needs to be defended.
I have experience the garbage put out in this field for 50 years mate. When you start with an "infallible" book that has two different orders for "creation" at the very start, walking talking snakes, an atmospheric pressure required to hold enough water to "flood the entire Earth" couple with an ambient temperature of ~ 3000 C should sufficient water to even cover the Pennines precipitate from such a burden and a wooden craft sufficient to carry a sample of every known genus, let alone species of animal on the earth for weeks are only the beginning of the utter bizarreness and complete suspension of laws of physics required to validate a tenth of the mythology proposed.
These "works" are predicated on the basis that a religious text is infallible, and looks for evidence to support it. It fails at the first hurdle - falsifiabilty. That you neither know nor understand why that is a failure is one reason why I would consider any debate with you the metaphorical equivalent of teaching a pig to sing. It is an act doomed to failure, and only annoys the pig.
Good luck on your trip from Students for Whatever, through Amway to your adult life.
@terrys: Were you there? No, neither was I but look at the numerous historical discoveries which support what the bible states. Just because you cannot get your head around something does not make it untrue. You may call me an out of tune pig, no problem at all. I will continue to believe in the truth as that is all that matters.
"I'm all for tolerance,"
The hypocrisy is stunning….
The belief in the unbelievable is just like magic - all a believable delusion in the minds of those who believe in it. That is my belief. I've looked after a lot of delusional people.
But I do tolerate that belief in others. I travel & listen to others experiences & beliefs. That's what I love doing. I don't have to believe them.
That's pretty much the dictionary definition.
Tolerance:
the ability or willingness to tolerate the existence of opinions or behaviour that one dislikes or disagrees with
I just can't understand why you believe it to the extent of supporting (this site which) organising attacks on others beliefs - as outlined in this deal.
That does not mean accepting the deliberate spread of fundamentalist beliefs in this deal, backed up by instructions of how to attack & discredit others beliefs. That can't be just tolerated!
Heads and walls Bruce - I was looking at Bible apps on Playstore the other day, and loved one comment on a King James version: " The King James is the only one for me. God hasn't changes, so why should the Bible?"
You say you are an educator - good luck, I wouldn't even know where to start with someone possessing that much insight, and I fear there are a few here now…
Actually there are many reports of academia and teachers being persecuted for not adhering to evolution teachings.
(see doco: No intelligence allowed) . Professor Burgess said after being attacked for not supporting evolution, that many of the faculty privately told him we have problems with evolution theory but are perspectued if we openly talk about it.
If evolutionists were serious about scientific pursuit they would not attack but embrace and tolerate research and study that doesnt agree with their own as anyone with true scientific intent would. Instead they come from a standing bias of 'there is no creation/creator', therefore we will explain the world in natural terms. And it seems you are the one doing the attacking here of others beliefs with a closed mind to scientific inquiry.
"pre-existing beliefs can alter the interpretation of results, as in confirmation bias; this is a heuristic that leads a person with a particular belief to see things as reinforcing their belief, even if another observer might disagree (in other words, people tend to observe what they expect to observe)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Beliefs_and_b…
I love reading these threads, even more than the condom puns.
Rubbernecker.
Go on participate a little - it's even better ;-)
Fundamentalists are such fun people.
I am not fundamentalist. What I believe is what I think is right. Like I said before you have a right to believe what you believe,
I already mentioned what you call defective (the Creation doctrine) is believed by many scientists such as Albert Einstein, Arthur Compton, Blaise Pascal, Erwin Schrödinger, Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler and Louis Pasteur and many more…
Eh? Most of those were atheists. Though Newton was regarded as a religious nutter in his day.
Don't take this as anti-Christian. Even the Pope accepts evolution now, its just a few fringe fundamentalists (and Americans) who cling to such idiocy.
Fundamentalists rarely see themselves as fundamentalist, but push their one true way of thinking.
The site attacks others beliefs, how to argue others beliefs are unacceptable, and we are told not to neg!
Fundamentalism
fʌndəˈmɛnt(ə)lɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.
strict adherence to the basic principles of any subject or discipline.
Must dig up those dead people, to see what they think now ;-)
Darwin is said to have withheld publication of his masterwork, due to fear of repercussions from the conservative religious groups.
Fitting in with the consensus beliefs of the time is common to keep your position.
Discussion in this deal proves the benefit of being unafraid of expressing our well thought out ideas ;-)
I said I'd let the deal stand - but if you are going to produce arrant garbage almost verbatim from such pathological shysters as "Dr" Duane Gish, a serial liar exposed on many occasions, and who only escaped a fraud charge in Queensland because relgious fantasy is exempt from the trade practises act, then I will call you for what you clearly are - a subscriber to a fruitloop philosophy whose main attributes are a claim it is OK to "Lie for god" and an philosophical underpinning of "explaining away", not explaining why any objection they have raised to scientific explanation of the centuries old observation of evolution has been countered.
Still, these books are just the ticket for anyone who would swallow your assertion above without question - just not really suitable for children.
@terrys:
Welcome back terry;-)
I live in the Bible Belt in Brisbane. Luckily I get on well with my neighbours, by agreeing not to discuss topics like this. I'm happy they feel secure.
We like our religious shysters up here.
Creationism is real! I did create the universe and all the pasta in it. Now that you've heard it straight from the monster's mouth, you can go home. Nothing to see here.
Negged due to inaccuracies (no mention of me in any of their so-called research).
Free speech as long as it agrees with your point of view is not free speech. Let Christians think what they want.
If it was a typical Christian bookshop offering a discount, you'd not get the same response.
Free speech has limits - teaching people to lie and deceive - its like that pickup artist guy who got booted out of the country, or anti-vaxers who teach how to cast doubt on solid research, how to manipulate the gullible.
"The significance of the specimen remained the subject of controversy until it was exposed in 1953 as a forgery, consisting of the lower jawbone of an orangutan deliberately combined with the cranium of a fully developed modern human.
The Piltdown hoax is perhaps the most famous paleoanthropological hoax ever to have been perpetrated. It is prominent for two reasons: the attention paid to the issue of human evolution, and the length of time (more than 40 years) that elapsed from its discovery to its full exposure as a forgery."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man
This is one of many many cases of lies to deceive people to believe in evolution…
Ernst Haeckel's fraudelent drawings depicting false similarities between embryos.
The Archaeoraptor was a large embarrassment to National Geographic
Nebraska man was promoted based on the find of a single peccary-like tooth (wild pig-like tooth)
You win this week's prize for the most imaginative use of the word "think".
WOW, looks like there is a more emotive topic than whether cyclists should pay Rego after all!
Evolution teaches that in the beginning all the matter and energy of the entire universe was inside an area the size of a tiny dot. This dot appeared and time, space and matter simultaneously appeared. This dot exploded and the entire universe was made. The universe made itself from nothing! (Science fiction and speculation NOT science)
Non living chemicals formed life. This has never been observed or recreated in a lab.
(Science fiction and speculation NOT science)
From this one living cell all life arose and goo in a sludge pit eventually formed humans. Animals would eventually change into other kinds of animals. A cow like creature turned into a whale! (Science fiction and speculation NOT science)
Basically a frog literally turns into a prince with the billions and billions of evolution years!
Fairytale for sure.
As for the rest like natural selection etc that is all taught by creationists.
I took photos of some science books for kids this week and they are perpetuating lies that were dis proven ages ago.
I as a young earth creationist will be assisting them to correct scientific errors.
I can also assist people to use science NOT brainwashed emotions to teach them using SCIENCE that a baby is a human a fetus is a human and abortion scientifically kills a unique human being.
You read that right. WE DO SCIENCE BETTER!
We dislike the murder of babies!
I have a preference for responders to use known science not speculation science to refute me but I am certain I am asking for too much.
Evolution teaches that in the beginning all the matter and energy of the entire universe was inside an area the size of a tiny dot.
Didn't even get to the second sentence before mixing up evolution and the Big Bang.
Non living chemicals formed life. This has never been observed or recreated in a lab.
Whereas big man in the sky created life makes perfect sense!
Animals would eventually change into other kinds of animals.
You're not the first person here who's knowledge of evolution comes from Pokemon.
I can also assist people to use science NOT brainwashed emotions to teach them using SCIENCE
Just because you say SCIENCE in capital letters doesn't make it so. Have you read what these people have written in their About Us section?
"Didn't even get to the second sentence before mixing up evolution and the Big Bang."
Lots of evolution based courses, books and docos disagree. These things are often taught together.
I notice you didn't attempt to refute my first point directly at all but provided a diversion.
"Whereas big man in the sky created life makes perfect sense!"
Finding the most amazing created life forms with 'tech' that scientists lustfully try to mimic in technology it is more reasonable to assume creation rather than everything made itself from nothing. Please find a snowman and say it formed accidentally! Yet you look at creation and assume so!
Another diversionary response.
"You're not the first person here who's knowledge of evolution comes from Pokemon."
Are you actually saying that evolution doesn't teach that ALL life descended from one (sometimes a few) multicelled organism? That animals like dinosaurs didn't eventually change into birds???
Your response is not only diversionary but inaccurate and immature when you mention a nintendo cartoon!
I think you are misrepresenting the teachings of evolution here!
"Just because you say SCIENCE in capital letters doesn't make it so. Have you read what these people have written in their About Us section?"
I am glad you didn't attempt to say science disproves unique human life and abortion as murder.
I am not surprised your final attempt at refutation feeds me another diversionary line.
If anyone can demonstrate where Dan provided some useful refutation and didn't try a diversion I would like to know HOW and WHERE exactly.
I have read the 'about us' section. The comment left was "What hope is there of having a reasonable debate/discussion with anyone who subscribes to this way of thinking?" I can respond that there is plenty of hope :)
Also since a lot of people have been dismissing creation the burden also falls on evolution to prove the unprovable fairy tale of goo to you, life from non life, animals changing to other types etc etc etc
Funny thing I have observed that in evolution textbooks they always cite examples of evolution as finches turning into finches, dogs turning into dogs, moths turning into moths, bacteria staying as bacteria. Please provide proof of the fairy tale religious lies that are unproven and unprovable. Creationists understand the scientific method the best and that's why we question these tales.
These things are often taught together.
Does not mean they are the same thing.
I notice you didn't attempt to refute…
Well that's because I don't claim to know how the universe came to exist. In any case, the Big Bang looks at what happened at the beginning. It does not explain where it came from or how it came to be. One can only speculate. Only a creationist would be so bold as to claim to know, especially with such flawed reasoning.
Finding the most amazing created life … it is more reasonable to assume creation…
There is at least one fatal flaw in your reasoning however. If there must be a creator for such amazingly complex life forms, who created the creator?
Please find a snowman and say it formed accidentally!
Not too many people would call it a stretch to assume the universe is infinitely large. If you had an infinite number of chimpanzes with typewriters, one will eventually type the works of Shakespeare. Hard to imagine, yes, but not as flawed as creationism.
Your response… when you mention a nintendo cartoon!
Your overly simplistic explanation of evolution made me question if you had a basic understanding of the theory.
I am glad you didn't attempt to say science disproves unique human life and abortion as murder.
Why introduce yet another unrelated topic into the discussion?
If anyone can demonstrate where Dan provided some useful refutation
Tell me, thelastnoob, when did I actually say your statements were wrong (for the most part)? Or am I simply pointing out that the alternatives being discussed are flawed or far less plausible?
the burden also falls on evolution to prove the unprovable fairy tale of goo to you, life from non life, animals changing …
You yourself said natural selection is taught by creationist. Over billions of years is it really that unfathomable? The answer is; perhaps, but not nearly as much as the big man in the sky that created everything (now that's what you call unprovable).
Funny thing I have observed that in evolution textbooks they always cite examples of evolution as finches turning into finches…
I see you've conveniently ignored the length of time relating to these examples.
@Dan_:
I will respond after I wake up. Please check back later. I will surprise you with things you have not been informed about.
If you had an infinite number of chimpanzes with typewriters
Oh, what I wouldn't give for that! Think of the possibilities…
I will surprise you with things you have not been informed about.
Such arrogance. SMH.
@ProspectiveDarkness: Pretty sure I've read/heard that exact same line used to advertise psychic hotlines.
"I will surprise you with things you have not been informed about…"
Yeah. Definitely.
I can also assist people to use science NOT brainwashed emotions to teach them using SCIENCE that a baby is a human a fetus is a human and abortion scientifically kills a unique human being.
You read that right. WE DO SCIENCE BETTER!
We dislike the murder of babies!
Wat.
As the comments here have degenerated into attacks from both sides, I'll close commenting and leaving the current state of this deal as it is.
CMI has instructions on how to attack others beliefs. That's what I am upset about. IS operates in a similar way.
It's fundamentalism 101.
You can believe what you want. I certainly won't change you;-) That's not what I am wanting.
It's others who read this deal & may be misled that I am worried about.
(An overseas led supplier automatically has a warning for OzBargainers to consider if buying from their site may be dangerous. Similar issue here, for impressionable people who can't tell fact from fabrication. Considering the instructions in the CMI site & shown here is to attack others beliefs.)
That is why this deal is neg worthy in my opinion, & hopefully the MODs will consider all sites like this unable to be listed.