Unemployed and Depressed :(

Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 12:29
Last edited 13/02/2015 - 13:52 by 1 other user

Graduated with civil engineering/commerce, first class honours, 80+ mark, loads of extra curricular, 1 year related work experience.

I dont have a graduate role lined up and feeling depressed lately because I used to be hired by university as a tutor and even my students have grad jobs lined up with some of the tier 1 engineering companies. And some of my friends who have less experience, definitely not 80+ mark got into tier 1 construction firms. I've been saying to myself that it must've all been luck, but after multiple rejections, I think otherwise. I mean success in life is all relative. Those who used to be behind me are now ahead. I just feel depressed at that.

Anyway, all is not bad. so I had 2 interviews with this small boutique construction firm who during the interview verbally said they'll accept me. They said they'll send me employment details to my email next week (which is now 2 weeks ago and still nothing :(… ).

since then, I left him voice mails and sent him emails of which he responded "he was interstate and didnt see emails and hes back now and will call tomorrow (which was last friday.. he didnt call)". I was happy but now its tuesday, I feel my chances are slipping. Its so unprofessional. I left him another voice mail + email yesterday. he havent responded. Its now at a point i dont even feel like working for them because they seem so unprofessional. Should I even bother calling him again? Would calling him so many times make me seem desperate?

sigh…

EDIT: Hi, thanks all for the supporting messages, didnt think it'll end in hot discussions. I took the advice of many to actively seek instead of sitting around waiting. I've pretty much applied to all the relevant junior/graduate jobs on seek.com for the past few days as well as jobs advertised on google search. Can someone recommend other places to apply?

Also, some recommended to work for free. How should I go about doing this? big or small companies? (havent tried this before, so i got no idea)

These few weeks I've also thought about career change to finance or management consulting but I think its going to be tougher because I dont have any experience or knowledge in these 2 fields. Or maybe even start my own tutoring business.. so yea..just a thought

volunteer.com, bunnings, small companies on yellow page, walk in with cv, pm on linkedin

TLDR: Graduated, unemployed, got verbally accepted at an interview but they havent responded to any of my emails/calls. Should I call again? Will it seem desperate? :'(

Education & Work

Comments

        • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:57

          tell us tell us..

        • canleyheights on 13/02/2015 - 11:01
          +4

          @z3289598:

          he's just baiting. now he got 200 people private msg him asking him what it is. he'll just tell them to sign up to some MLM business….something like http://www.worldventures.com/ lol.

        • centrelink on 13/02/2015 - 15:37

          @canleyheights:
          I already said it in the past. So you can track my message history. But then again, I had to actually spend some time at the beginning to set it all up for it all to work and have my work automated :)

          So I guess doing absolutely nothing is a lie since I had to do stuff as well.

    • DrStinge on 14/02/2015 - 10:25
      +1

      Are you Broden? Living off your PS3 profits?

  • lplau on 12/02/2015 - 11:34

    Interesting thing is…..
    It could just depend on your Resume, it has nothing that sticks out like a sore thumb.

    Basically I've found it that in tier 1 firms, candidates KNOW that they need to have high marks and everything perfect to get into it, therefore you have 90% of candidates looking the same.

    However you have those 10% which doesn't look as perfect but they stand out, they may have catered for their academic pitfall for other social aspects which quite a lot of companies are now looking for, who can fit in???

    You may look awesome on paper, however doing an assignment or achieving 90% for a unit, doesn't mean you will fit into their workplace. Academically there is always somebody better than you, therefore what in your resume tells them that you may fit into their organisation????

    Remember you can be a PHD however it doesn't mean you know how to use it practically… reminds me of a couple in the news a few years ago…. They were a PHD but went into a GP to ask them how to make a baby….

    You maybe an awesome memorise and regurgitate however it means nothing when you start working.

    • GameChanger on 12/02/2015 - 12:28
      +4

      The old saying

      Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit by definition.

      Smart is not putting it in a fruit salad.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:00
      +1

      A lot of people thinking i'm putting the mark 80+ just for show. I mean, its just one of my achievements, why not show it? Showing it doesnt mean I lack in other aspects such as fitting in and social skills. I mean, even if i truly dont have social skills, putting 80+ there is only going to make it better?

      • GameChanger on 12/02/2015 - 22:30

        I know you're not lying because I know people with exact same marks in the same situation as you.

        My point been is that your marks will only get you interviews in this country. "Cultural fit" bs is a big thing down here and quite simply if you're not bubbly, extrovert your chances are greatly reduced.

        • zeomega on 12/02/2015 - 23:47

          I got turned down for being as i quote "Strong personality, too bubbly and energetic"

          No loss. It was a contractual job, fortunately the job offer directly after that i landed had a 50% increase in pay over the failed interview job and perm as well.

          Everything comes in due time :)

          OP… chin up. I was in your shoes years ago, applying for multiple jobs (but only with 70+ avg) for months on end and getting nowhere… eventually i got 3 offers in the same week! Weird how life works.

        • ltwo on 14/02/2015 - 01:13

          And in most workplaces, you'll have to watch cricket, AFL or NRL to be a good fit.

  • TheNewTightArse on 12/02/2015 - 11:42
    +1

    To help with your depression, there is a special on baileys
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/182517

    • scrimshaw on 13/02/2015 - 22:20

      There's probably not enough alcohol % in there to get one drunk, I suggest vodka.

  • AssamLaksa on 12/02/2015 - 12:40
    +4

    It sucks how there's so many of us who are jobless right out of uni. And I have to admit your qualifications makes mine look so… mediocre. And here I was blaming it on my Asian name..

    Trying to secure that first job is definitely a massive pain. I feel you bro, but we mustn't give up! The other thread had so many people give plenty of brilliant advice and I'm slowly trying to incorporate them into my CV/resume/attitude.

    P.S: I had the same idea of trying to start my own business, maybe all of us jobless people should get together and start a partnership?

    • sunarde on 12/02/2015 - 19:57
      +2

      Forgot which research it was in but if say…. John Smith and James Wong both had the same experience etc. 70% of interviewers chose John Smith.

      Discrimination yes but can't be helped.

      • BartholemewH on 12/02/2015 - 21:15
        +5

        81.47% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:03
      +2

      great idea Encipher, I mean the youngest entrepreneur I know is in his low 20s when he founded the oculus. Hes a billionaire now! CEO of ozbargain must also be rich and its just a website. I just.. dont know where to start and scared as well.

      • AssamLaksa on 13/02/2015 - 17:08

        So is everyone i suppose, that's why we need to band together to do this! We could start brainstorming for ideas!

  • Doggiie on 12/02/2015 - 12:49
    +1

    Hi fellow UNSWer, all I can give you is my moral support!!

  • arbok on 12/02/2015 - 12:56
    +6

    Hello, as a 10 year civil engineer who worked for a tier 1 consultancy let me offer you some advice about how these places work.

    Getting a good score is only a small part of what they are looking for, especially at a construction firm. After a couple of years working they don't even look at your uni scores. In construction you have to deal with slack sub contractors, people giving you shitty excuses for not doing work, people not following orders like safety and specifications on how to install something, getting things done on time, planning your stuff out properly so it gets done in the proper order. They would be looking for things like this in your cover letter or resume.

    Secondly in the interview, they want to see that you want to be involved in the industry, so going to industry talks and picking up on gossip and 'speaking the lingo' straight up gets the ears perked and more interested in you. ie find out what jobs the company is working on (might be as simple as going to the website), if they get brought up, you can ask them about that and keep the conversation going. They want to see if you 'fit in'. This isn't something you just do to get the job, its a lifetime thing.

    Thirdly as others have said networking is king. Your mates most likely had someone introduce them to someone or followed up diligently on their resumes and to the right people. Writing a bunch of letters and resumes just makes you the same as any of the other hundreds and thousands of letters. Have no fear in calling the actual manager and not the HR person. The manager is a busy person but not that busy they can't take your 10 minute call. Be polite and courteous. Your job is to get the job any way you can not worry if you spoil their morning tea break. (Don't call in the middle of lunch though.)

    Lastly use the hiring agents like Hays and those guys, they get commission to get you a place and they know people. Tell them exactly what you want and they'll get close to what you're after. Don't tell them you'll take whatever you have because more than likely you may not like the job. Oh and plenty of Australian consultancies have been making people redundant the last 5 years or so, so yeah competition is tough. Try New Zealand, they are doing ok at the moment.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:08

      Thanks! Do you mind me asking what industry you have work in?

      • arbok on 17/06/2015 - 20:30

        Sorry I'm a bit late.

        I was in the civil engineering/water industry.

        In construction now. Yay.

        Hope you had luck in the meantime.

  • arescarti42 on 12/02/2015 - 13:15

    Don't feel too bad, the job market is pretty awful at the moment.

    The latest unemployment data came out today, and unemployment has hit its highest level in 14 years.

    The situation is even worse for young people, around 30% of people ages 18-24 are either unemployed or underemployed (e.g. advanced qualifications but can't get a job outside of stacking shelves).

    So it's not just you.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:09

      They say its the worst market conditions every single year! Seriously, there should only be 1 worst condition and the rest should be "good" relatively.

      • GameChanger on 12/02/2015 - 22:33
        +3

        From a statistical point of view this has been the worse year since 1992 for graduates.

        • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:50

          omg.. :(

        • ltwo on 14/02/2015 - 01:16

          @z3289598: And it won't start picking up till 2016 at least. Economists predict that Australian growth will be below par till at least then.

  • yappyyap on 12/02/2015 - 13:35

    here is a tip : on the email title or description : TYPE IN CAPITALS AND TRY TO SUM YOUSELF UP ( JOE BLOW Graduated with civil engineering/commerce, 80+ mark)

    it gets their attention .

    • yappyyap on 12/02/2015 - 13:35
      +1

      only when you are emailing resumes obviously.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:10

      would this come off as rude?

      • GameChanger on 12/02/2015 - 22:35
        +2

        Don't listen to that!

        Some pet hate of recruiters is people who type all in caps, resume font in color and people emailing multiple times.

        What you need to do is email within 24 hours as every day after increases the chance of being ignored if they find x number of suitable people.

      • yappyyap on 13/02/2015 - 01:35

        It worked for me, think about it.
        Each job you apply for has probably another 100+ people applying as well. They are not going to read every email and resume,you need to catch their attention and make them open up your email/resume. Doesnt hurt to try and also you will probably go thru heaps interviews before you land a job. Happens to everyone , but with each interview you get more confident for the next.
        goodluck

  • ddxsamx on 12/02/2015 - 14:04

    Have you been applying outside of Sydney?

    I got my first Job in Newcastle (studied the same as you, CVEN z3218634 :)
    Worked there for two years, asked for a transfer and back in Sydney.

    The two years in Newcastle were the best time i've had learning about myself, careers, relationships etc.

  • ethereal88 on 12/02/2015 - 14:44
    +8

    Problem how? I graduated with a Philosophy degree and spend my days working the odd retail shift and smoking cones. Philosophically speaking I am in nirvana. Its not like you "need" a job "job" working 5 days as a consumerist debt slave. OP needs perspective not being told to work in some regional hole no one cares about. *** cracks longneck *** … .

    • T1OOO on 13/02/2015 - 15:01

      ^^ this.

      what this pot head soon to be meth head said.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 18:43

      I love it how everyone gives this guy shit, but the truth is there. So many people makes fistfuls of money (100k+ and if you think that's not much then you're already lost) and are in debt because they buy too much shit they can't even use because they are working too much trying to pay for it all. My brother in law for example blows gobs of money on shit like checking the oil in his expensive car…seriously my sister had to show him where a dipstick was…and he's an engineer.

      But hey, I was that scumbag that skated to law school clutching a can of Guinness. I may have worked heaps but that was only to save every last penny so I wouldn't have to work full-time later on…I'd rather the opportunity to 'waste' time with my family and laugh at my dog swimming at the beach instead of having to relocate away from family to get a career.

      I'd rip a bong with you ethereal. The only people doing meth and cocaine around me are the lawyers with the (profanity) up work schedule…bunch of lawyers sucking the ice pipe in the work carpark out one of their financed Audis at the Christmas party was hilarious.

      • ethereal88 on 14/02/2015 - 17:06
        +1

        A toast! Although I don't exactly work "heaps" ahem.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/02/2015 - 15:11

          Pardon the South Oz vernacular!

          Nor do I. Wised up to it years ago.

  • anth0888 on 12/02/2015 - 15:39
    +2

    My recommendation is to Volunteer, network and diversify your working options.

    I notice that many grads seem to be rigid with the field they are looking for work and these days you have to be flexible.

    I was working full time in a well known global logistics organisation, and recently all our jobs were outsourced overseas to Thailand to save money - typical. This was after 4 and a half years and was my first grad role - which i was fortunate enough to obtain on a full time permanent basis - leveraging my transferrable retail skills and university acheivements, Jobs like accounting, finance, tele - customer service and more are migrating overseas utilising the gains in technology and connectivity.

    Many people in our organisation had worked there for 15+ years with just their original degree and this company, and now they were facing redundancy. They didn't even bother to do extra training, network or volunteer. So from what I can hear they are on the street looking, stuck with looking for work in their sole profession - with a mortgage and kids.

    The nature work work these days is that it's best to diversify your career and have a 'portfolio' career. As in it's fine to have your main career, but try to develop working experience in other fields or industries (even leveraging your experiences) so that if your orgnisation ends up giving you the boot, you wouldn't have had all your eggs in one basket.

    I see a job as how you would invest. You wouldn't invest all your shares in one business, so why would you with your job. I learn't this the hard way and now i'm developing careers, where im part of my local council in youth development, business part time and starting my own business part time.

    We're not only competing with people in our nation but also from around the world. It's not fair (i know) but its the new reality and we have to continually be maintaing our careers and creating our own opporunities.

    • Nikovegna on 12/02/2015 - 17:25
      +3

      Volunteering will help with your depression. Make you feel useful and that you're contributing to something worthwhile. Find a charity or cause you have an interest in and make contact. Once you commit to that you will feel a lot more positive and also the volunteer work looks great on the CV too.

  • salamander on 12/02/2015 - 19:34

    Is it just civil engineering that it is difficult finding a job for at the moment in Australia, or the same with other branches of engineering as well?

    • yappyyap on 13/02/2015 - 01:39
      +4

      hard for males, they want more females in civil

    • pointblank on 13/02/2015 - 16:48

      I think pretty much all branches are tough at the moment. Electrical Eng probably gives you a slightly better than average chance of landing a job, but it wouldn't be by much. They're a specialised field and there aren't a lot of electrical engineers

    • knackers on 13/02/2015 - 21:38

      I would assume Mech. Engineering is suffering the most. All traditional industries have taken a hit; Aviation(dead), Automotive(dead), Defence(25% budget cut), Mining(heavily linked with the Chinese economy).

      • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 23:19

        I'm from civil and its sh*t

        • knackers on 14/02/2015 - 00:44

          Don't let being unemployed get you down. It took me a few years to find a job after Uni. I joined a gym and went to work on my own inventions. It was the most productive and creative period of my life.
          Find out what you love to do and hone your skills. Jobs come and go, passion for what we love will remain. In my case it was innovation and design.

        • Thenarrator on 14/02/2015 - 17:29

          @knackers: What did you invent? what sort of gym did you go? I need some inspiration

        • knackers on 14/02/2015 - 20:01

          @z3289598: I invented a CVT transmission, a bicycle crank mechanism and a lossless compression algorithm for soundwaves. I also designed some concept vehicles to hone my 3d design skills. Oh and I designed my dream home (you can do that).

          Any gym.. just get up and headbutt the world

  • sunarde on 12/02/2015 - 19:53
    +4

    Must be a unsw student eh lol sorry ceebs reading above comments.

    The fact that people that got lower marks than you and whom you think are not as qualified got tier 1 jobs means your not doing something right.

    Pay a hr consultant to help you with cover letters and resumes and see if it gets results. If you're getting interviews it means the hr consultant is doing their job.

    From there you work on your interview techniques. Simple things like… Body language, eye contact, confidence without sounding like a douche or smart-arse etc.

    Very important to show that you are a easy guy to get along because they usually always wants to hire a new person that will complement their team. Even if xxx person was more qualified they would choose the person that may cost less, do the same job, show good character.

    If you are feeling depressed and giving up now, it says a lot about your character whom can't deal with stress well or who can't solve their own problems. You need to find some way to relax as depression does show and does not help you at all during the interview stage.

    This may seem harsh but as a third party person this is how they may see it.

    • effgee on 13/02/2015 - 22:48
      +1

      no idea why this comment got negged.
      equalised now

  • SydStrand on 12/02/2015 - 20:15
    +1

    The job market is ratty right now. I basically had to bus tables for months and do oddjobs after my master's degree before anything in my field actually opened up. My mother recently got made redundant after 20 years in her government job. My advice is to not despair and leave your ego at the door. Volunteer, do retail, go back and do postgrad, etc.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:16

      retail..i saw an ad for dicksmith and because I have no prior retail experience, dont think I'll make it though..

      • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2015 - 23:02

        OP, take any job that you can get. It will give you a reason to get up in the morning and will do wonders for your self-esteem.Keeping busy is the secret to not getting depressed.

        The shittier the job you get, the more motivated you'll be to find a 'proper' one :)

        All the best!

      • scrimshaw on 12/02/2015 - 23:22
        +2

        Screw Dick smiths. They're uptight about who they employ and they want people with good sales experience.

        Go Bunnings for your first gig. Bunnings will take ANYONE, including school leavers with no prior experience. Anyone with half a brain and an ability to count, lift things and do cash handling can work at Bunnings.

        Go to their website and create a profile, you will get email alerts whenever a job comes up.

        you can also do their one-day stocktakes, which is only 7~8 hours shift and is an easy way to earn about $120 since all you do is count stock and nobody breathes down your neck. They also employ around a hundred people at a time since the warehouse is huge and the stock needs to be counted by hand, so you have a fairly good chance of getting a position.

        • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:34

          thanks for info Scrimshaw!

    • anth0888 on 12/02/2015 - 22:16

      wise advice!

  • cannedhams on 12/02/2015 - 23:40
    +2

    Op, I'm a lawyer, so I can't directly comment, but one thing I have noticed is that a lot of law students who basically scraped by and spent all their time down at the pub ended up with blue chip jobs. Why? Probably because all those drinking sessions equipped them with social skills. Whereas swots like you and me probably have less social skills than they should.

    What I do know is that there are some graduates out there with pretty outstanding resumes (far better than mine) that are going begging at the moment.

    I would second the opinion above to get out of Sydney. Get the hell out of any capital city. The place is two years away from being horse-bridle deep in the blood of wailing graduates. Try and get a gig with some civil construction firm in a regional area, believe me, with the amount of cronyism in local government those firms will never die.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 00:09

    I can get you a job at my firm in Chatswood. PM me.

    • mr_asstight on 13/02/2015 - 01:30

      can i work there too?

    • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:49

      Can I ask which firm you work at? PM disabled

      • effgee on 13/02/2015 - 22:53
        +2

        I'm trying to be constructive here (no pun intended).

        Some guy offers you a job, and you couldn't be bothered enabling your PM to contact him ? Or if it's his PM disabled, clearly say so. Or use some problem solving skills to work out how to get in touch.

        It's a job offer, make it happen. Somehow.
        Asking which firm comes across as fussy.

  • alikazi on 13/02/2015 - 00:52

    I am in the same boat as yours with a Bacherlors in Computer Engineering, work experience throughout my education, recommendations, self made android applications and games developed on my own between graduation and jobs. No job for me yet since I quit my old one a year ago. I had to quit the old one because I was being treated extremely unfairly, not to mention with very little payment (money doesnt matter but still), extensive long hours and they asked me to do business development rather than let me work as an Android developer as promised when getting hired. Now I cant explain all this to the next employer without sounding bitchy. But we live in a real world and if I had continued at that place I would have been in major depression by now. So I know that I made the right decision.

    Anyway, my advice is volunteer. Just start volunteering somewhere without getting paid. Contacts and impressions is everything because no matter how many laws you come up with for hiring, humans will stay humans and always be biased toward certain things. Volunteer in your degree related field. Make friends. Impress people with your personality. A birthday card to a recent friend is more likely to get you hired than presenting an impressive resume to a stranger. For now, we are both in the same boat and the pressure kills me everyday.

  • mr_asstight on 13/02/2015 - 01:12
    +1

    Get used to seeing people less deserving getting better jobs than you. That's the mysteries of life.

    Some of the most average people at uni are now on high six-figures. Call it luck or fate but it just happens sometimes without deliberate planned effort for these types of people.

  • lilkid28 on 13/02/2015 - 02:09

    Consider going into Real Estate.

    I graduated with an engineering degree 2 years ago and after half a year unemployed, I applied for anything I saw before starting as an assistant property manager. Hard work definitely but looking at the 6 figure earnings in a years time or so. I'm in Victoria though… But property market should still be reasonably good in NSW I assume.

  • tc4101 on 13/02/2015 - 03:18
    +1

    Do you have a name like Xi Bin Wu?

    • UFO on 14/02/2015 - 15:57
      +2

      This got negged, but unfortunately its the truth out there with some employers. Your naive if you think it doesnt exist, and you need to do things that combat that unfair stereotype to get your foot in the door.

      If you come from a non-english speaking background, you will most definitely be discriminated against. Never openly, never direct, but in the back rooms and offices where the decision is made… most definitely.

      I can virtually guarantee it.

      • GameChanger on 15/02/2015 - 12:46

        I couldn't agree more!

        If the whole office is 'western' one mistake in your speech, pretty much means you have 0 chance. The unfortunate fact this occurs very often! We're a multicultural country for so long but have a look at company boards and you will only recently see a token Asian for his/her links to Asia.

        I know some will come here and say Asian firms discriminate as well and they're right! but lets not forget the majority of firms here are run by non Asians.

        • scrimshaw on 15/02/2015 - 18:22

          The only way to combat backroom discrimination is to work until you have allies (old bosses and colleagues) who can back you up and become your referees. Good ones. So make sure you get along with them even though they may be lazy idiots in the workplace.

          Right now as a graduate, employers are going to be picky and scrutinise your every shortcoming - your lack of work experience, your lack of knowledge, your lack of communication skills and maybe even nitpick over your non English sounding name, but once you've gained enough experience and built up your portfolio you're going to face slightly less hurdles when it comes to employment.

  • singhbo on 13/02/2015 - 07:57
    +1

    This is normal, so do not stress you are not alone. Graduate unemployment is very high in Australia and will continue to be high for quite some time ahead.

    I would suggest do not just apply for graduate/junior engineering roles, but other roles as others have mentioned. Getting a job at ANY retail shop near you will be a good start, you can keep applying for engineering roles even though you have a part time job & don't just look for graduate roles in your city - apply for ALL AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND (NZ IS BOOMING AT THE MOMENT!!!)

    Keep positive, and at the end of the day, there are other people in the world who don't have shelter and can't keep food on their plate - be thankful everyday for what you have.

  • vroomkroom on 13/02/2015 - 11:11

    Been there and experienced the same feeling. Good news is you will get your break, just hang in there !!
    Couple of things helped me

    Get a fun part time job for some cash flow and taking your mind of this situation ( Bar-tending/ Batista depending on your interest )
    If you apply for a job, follow up and request them for feedback every time
    If you come across a friendly HR, request them for a mock interview with some hiring manager (I scored one this way with a small company and it boosted by confidence )
    Be prepared to move for a job ( I had to move to Sydney on couple of days notice for my first gig )
    Use your free time to volunteer and don't think its a waste ( You may come across someone there who can help you and be open about your job hunt )
    Do not find yourself discussing this situation with the same people i.e, your mates, unless you know them really well and they can listen to you like a broken record. Instead meet new people and tell them about your situation.

    Believe in yourself . You are in this situation only because of the current economic state. So with some luck and patience you will get your self a Job !!

  • pg88 on 13/02/2015 - 11:13

    @z3289598

    I grauduated with the exact same degree but down in Melb. Several hundred job apps in the last two-three years for both vacation and graduation positions with almost an equal number of rejections. Are you dead set on engineering? I used to be but the market seriously isn't looking good… Started emphasising commerce in my final year of searching and landed many more interviews.

    It also helps that I'm interested in that aspect of things, so if you are maybe consider that as an option.

    I feel for you buddy. Good luck.

    • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:58

      because I have been heavily involved in engineering side ie. all past experiences and volunteering ones are focused on that, its like clear evidence for commerce side firms to label me as more favorable to engineering (which isnt good when I have interviews for any commerce companies) .. its hard..

      • pg88 on 19/02/2015 - 15:23

        Make it your strength rather than a weakness… I was like you too in that regard. All my work experience, all my applications, extra-curricular, everything was just focused on working my way up and landing an engineering job.

        Naturally, when I went to interviews with commerce companies, this would be a point that they pick up on. One of the ways that I addressed this was by turning what they saw was a negative into a positive. For example, a common answer I gave (because it is true to me, you might need something else which you could genuinely stand by) was that it was just me adapting to the market environment to achieve my greater career goal. Since there were limited engineering jobs and it was a highly competitive environment, I decided to pursue my commerce interests as I could still work towards my goal of entering senior management to play a roll in projects etc. At the end of the day, we are engineers because we want to play a role in building something bigger than ourselves, all our experiences and activities we partake are transferable to solve real world problems elsewhere.

        Look at your reasons for wanting an engineering job, then take a step back and thing about the skills you want to develop, or the ultimate goal it serves. Look at what common ground it has with a potential commerce career and craft your answer around that.

        Also final note, if you're set on engineering, keep trying. This is just an option

        • Thenarrator on 19/02/2015 - 21:38

          can I ask what sort of role do you work atm? would you go back to engineering if you had the chance?

        • pg88 on 25/02/2015 - 13:21
          +1

          @z3289598: I work as a corporate finance graduate for an aussie listed company. I have a variety of different roles but it's mainly focused around corporate accounting. If I had the chance I probably consider it, but it wouldn't be a clear cut decision with too many factors in play. Assuming that all things were constant, I'd probably go back to engineering if there was a role suitable to my interests.

  • CI on 13/02/2015 - 11:28
    +1

    Op, I was in the same situation as you, like exactly. Finished April 2013. No luck with grad jobs, luckily got tutoring, kept looking, saw a whole batch that I tutored graduate, still looking, got promoted to lecturer for a 101, saw another batch graduate, then similar to what you said worst part was seeing my students at career fairs representing their companies. But I kept applying and didn't give up, and it all paid off mid-late last year!
    Don't give up!!

  • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 11:30
    +4

    I'm curious…did you have a part-time job whilst you were at uni? i.e anything customer orientated? Or did you hammer away at study to get good grades. If so, my old housemate was like this. He got scholarships and pulled 7s in his final year in engineering yet he could not land a grad job, he couldn't even get placement and had to do it at the uni… and now I hear he is doing more study (because really he is comfortable with that-he knows that 'world')…his life revolved around (profanity) around on the computer and uni work with not a worry in the world because his folks financed it. You get a job based on your interview, your personality and the rapport you build.

    I think his lack of personality and lack of social awareness was his downfall and this can be improved by doing things out of your comfort zone or not in your zone of interest. I could have lined him up with a grad job just through talking nonsense with my tutors (mind you, in a completely different subject field) whose husband was running a big engineering project. Gave me her husband's card to give to them. Although I didn't pass it on, because I found them to be ungrateful and expected the world. I didn't like his abrasive personality and I didn't want the wasted opportunity to reflect badly on my name.

    I didn't have good grades, but I worked full-time doing two jobs in 'shit-kicker' type roles whilst studying full time, and sure I would have loved the opportunity to study without having to work, but that's life and that's the breaks. Anyway, it was at these jobs where I had customers give me cards to contact them after chatting and I'd only realise who these people are after googling them. Hell, I was offered a computer programming gig because I can program (learnt as a kid and have always been interested in computers since having an xt) and that only came about after we were talking about computer crap. I completed a damn law degree…

    Ultimately it's how you relate to people that opens doors. I'd bet if you even got a job as a barista you'd get way more leads to your career job. We have this education is a product mentality. "Why do I need to learn this? I don't need it for what I am going to do" or "that job is below me" etc and then you expect a job to jump at us solely on our grades (and parents don't help with this).

    Try something different, do something that's 'not you' because what you're doing now isn't working and you're wallowing in it. Education should be a process where you learn how to learn…and it is this skill which enables you to apply it to other facets of your life. What you didn't learn is how to get a job or relate to people…my advice is to get any job, or volunteer somewhere and work on those skills…the animal welfare league would be an eye opening experience, or even guide dogs… man, anything, there's so much out there.

    • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 14:05
      +1

      this saddens me even more. I mean, I worked 2 years as a Barista plus a summer break as a receptionist at a real estate DURING my undergraduate studies. Not to mention 1 summer internship at related consultancy + 1 summer with a scholarship research project + 1 years experience as an Engineering Cadet at Council. This is fu*ked

      • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 18:10

        How did all that work go for you? How did you find being a barista? Did you form friendships at work, could you bullshit with regulars? At your related work experience: Did you express your desire to work in any particular field,or did you just do what you were told and not really make yourself known? Are you forward and do you voice what you want? How did you mesh with the team?

        Anyway, Your focus is you, (profanity) what everyone else around you is getting, it's not your concern. My mate told his boss at his internship to 'go make his own (profanity) coffee' when asked…he got a job. I'm not advocating doing something like that, but it fit his personality, he didn't have a care in the world. He made himself recognised, did his work, and didn't get taken advantage of, he also didn't sit around waiting for calls or getting depressed about getting a job, he just did what he had to do. Are you working now if not, why not?

        • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 22:24

          See I don't get this. Are you saying that if my personality doesn't fit your described "aggresive, non-caring, self serving" attitude, I am doomed to be jobless? Does everyone have to change personalities to the ideal mold to get a job? Can personalities even change, or is it just a fake it till you make it thing. How is that even beneficial? I think the vast majority of the world doesn't have that personality, how do they do it?

          Not an attack on you, I'm just trying to come to terms with my own shitty personality and trying to figure out if changing everything about me is what is expected for success. You seem like you're quite knowledgeable in this area.

        • GameChanger on 13/02/2015 - 22:48

          @golfwallet:

          People do change their personality for jobs, well for the 30 mins or so. But when it comes crunch time its very hard to keep the act up when asked questions.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/02/2015 - 03:00

          @golfwallet: Hey mate, definitely… not everyone has the same personality and I don't take it as an attack whatsoever… Don't try to get it because the whole situation can't be dissected analytically. It's not just a formula you need to satisfy. You're going to find when you get in the workplace that workplace politics prevail, and its only you that can figure out how to navigate through that… or you can just grow more cynical and accept the status quo.

          You don't need to be aggressive, non-caring and self serving and It does look like that is what I'm conveying. I'm not… you need to be assertive and go for what you want but also have compunction. You think your personality is shitty because you can't see yourself fitting in with those others you deem successful, but you need an environment that caters for you…you think success is landing that career, being like one of those people and then climbing that career ladder, questioning how others got their job you don't deem worthy. Whatever you do, someone is going to try take the piss and see how much they can extract from you…try and make you make them a coffee ;)…and this happens when you're the type worrying if someone likes you or not. People usually get overworked under fear of being fired or not getting promoted because their whole life hinges on their job and they made it that way…the world has been geared for competition against one another instead of cooperation and community… Think school grades, uni grades, KPIs, everyone is pitted against each other then these individuals develop this unfettered loyalty to the company they work for against their co-workers…and this is at all levels of the workforce.

          I have no problem telling a boss to get out of my face because I just don't give a (profanity) about losing a job or pursuing my career for my whole life. I am met with the most confused looks when I don't do overtime. My excuse of "I don't need to" may as well be an allegory I should write… I care about other things that are more important in my life. Work never rings my phone or hounds me and that's what I want, I'd rather have bike races with my nephews and nieces lol… I don't think my attitude is fit for the status quo either. I hated uni, and I found it to be the most awkward, vain, shallow and goofiest place I have been in my life. I have known many lawyers that go home in tears regularly and seriously consider going back to a retail or cafe job because it can be the most wicked industry going.

          You're not me, you don't have to be, but you have to have compassion and pride in yourself. Your personality probably isn't shitty but you lack confidence in yourself. Confidence isn't bravado or braggadocio…it's just being fine with who you are. You'll get a job mate and personalities grow and morph as life progresses. The only benefit of a job is money, and the amount of useless professionals I have encountered is testament to how people fake it to make it.

  • strikerzebra on 13/02/2015 - 11:34
    +1

    I graduated from Uni in a finance degree and got a dream job for a financial advisor internship which turned out to be me cold calling customers 9 hours a day signing them up for financial planning consultations, the next job i got was 2 months later and I worked for them in a financial planning firm and they got rid of me 1 month later without a valid reason, yeh I felt like shit but kept applying and applying, eventually got a job working for Westpac in a Call Centre, I never wanted to work for a call centre but knew I had to for the experience, now I' m working in the shares department for westpac, it's a cruisy job with decent pay and i'm sure my next job will be better. Sometimes you have to start at the bottom and work your way up again but never give up.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 11:56

      Is that you Drake?

  • zealmax on 13/02/2015 - 12:36
    +2

    Employment and grades don't line up. There is no science to your grades and scoring a job. Although having better grades is better than lower. By graduating University with a degree such as yours, you have demonstrated that you are not stupid. So has the other thousands of graduates. The employer/manager tend to look at your attitude and personality. See if you can fit into the current team and culture.

    I have many friends that aced it at Uni, but have not been successful at landing a good job. I think it comes down to their personality, attitude and interview skills.

    I imagine Civil engineering is predominantly a male job. Imagine what the work culture is like, and put on a persona that fits the work culture.

  • BelieveBecome on 13/02/2015 - 14:10

    Hi mate,

    Would like to see if I can help you out in some way.

    PM me if interested.

  • DealzEddy123 on 13/02/2015 - 15:34

    get any job instead of sitting at home and being depressed about not having an engineering job.

  • DealzEddy123 on 13/02/2015 - 15:38

    also in interview dont just focus on your technical ability. ability to work with clients, contractors and manage projects etc are skills they look for as well

    also most important thing to getting job (from my experience) has nothing to do with your ability to do the job… it's how likeable you seem compared to the other candidates

    my experience: changed job like 5 times in 2014/15 though not in engineering

  • dodgybrothers on 13/02/2015 - 15:54

    just keep looking..and accept any job you come across, it will help you to build your self confidence and same time you can look for the job you want;
    my personal experience, came from overseas 5 years back, i had IT degree but no experience , got work in farm for a week, (they didn't pay for first two days - they wanted to see how i work) , after one week, found job as data entry, worked there for 3 months - 3 month contract, than unemployed for around 3 months, got rejected from at least 15 agency/companies , knew my English was not excellent.. than got again in data entry and than moved to data analyst in same company and now senior analyst and still progressing…

    so in moral, dont lose hope and keep looking and accept whatever comes !

    • ethereal88 on 13/02/2015 - 16:35
      -6

      ROFL, working for nothing. About as useful as volunteering. If you put in work you get paid. And your English is still shocking. Mystery how you could enter any data meaningfully.

      • TassieJones14 on 13/02/2015 - 16:45

        Wow. Get over yourself.

      • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 18:19
        +2

        Any company that uses a 'work for free' trial as a predicate to worth ethic lacks ethics itself.Especially jobs that don't require a skill.

        I'd advocate stealing groceries from a supermarket over working exploitative slave labour as a farm hand. Unbelievable.

      • dodgybrothers on 18/02/2015 - 08:49

        maybe it is still shocking but at least you got my point…

        I'm working on senior position, i think that tell you how entered data meaningful, i have learned something here, if you have nothing good to say, say nothing !

  • Kazielle on 13/02/2015 - 17:39

    My partner works at Coles and of their smallish team of 15, most of those being highschoolers, four of them have engineering degrees and have been looking for work related to their degrees for over a year (one of them has been applying to places for two years).

    I'm sorry you're in such a crappy situation, but know it may not just "be you" and you're certainly not alone. It seems to be a field that is over-saturated to a ridiculous degree, if the lack of interviews for qualified workers is any indication.

  • Shamdog on 13/02/2015 - 19:08

    Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but OP, if you are not held down in Sydney (wife, family etc), you could consider moving to a country where engineers are in high demand? Countries such as Dubai? I know of a few friends who work at Laing o'Rourke (a large engineering firm) who get approached by firms in the Middle East, offering fantastic salaries, perks etc.

    Some food for thought.

    Best of luck.

    • GameChanger on 13/02/2015 - 19:52

      The people that get offers are the ones who are skilled with years of experience. Have a better chance moving cities around Australia if you ask me.

  • robbyjones on 13/02/2015 - 20:16

    This site is dedicated to graduates, have a look: au.gradconnection.com

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