Unemployed and Depressed :(

Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 12:29
Last edited 13/02/2015 - 13:52 by 1 other user

Graduated with civil engineering/commerce, first class honours, 80+ mark, loads of extra curricular, 1 year related work experience.

I dont have a graduate role lined up and feeling depressed lately because I used to be hired by university as a tutor and even my students have grad jobs lined up with some of the tier 1 engineering companies. And some of my friends who have less experience, definitely not 80+ mark got into tier 1 construction firms. I've been saying to myself that it must've all been luck, but after multiple rejections, I think otherwise. I mean success in life is all relative. Those who used to be behind me are now ahead. I just feel depressed at that.

Anyway, all is not bad. so I had 2 interviews with this small boutique construction firm who during the interview verbally said they'll accept me. They said they'll send me employment details to my email next week (which is now 2 weeks ago and still nothing :(… ).

since then, I left him voice mails and sent him emails of which he responded "he was interstate and didnt see emails and hes back now and will call tomorrow (which was last friday.. he didnt call)". I was happy but now its tuesday, I feel my chances are slipping. Its so unprofessional. I left him another voice mail + email yesterday. he havent responded. Its now at a point i dont even feel like working for them because they seem so unprofessional. Should I even bother calling him again? Would calling him so many times make me seem desperate?

sigh…

EDIT: Hi, thanks all for the supporting messages, didnt think it'll end in hot discussions. I took the advice of many to actively seek instead of sitting around waiting. I've pretty much applied to all the relevant junior/graduate jobs on seek.com for the past few days as well as jobs advertised on google search. Can someone recommend other places to apply?

Also, some recommended to work for free. How should I go about doing this? big or small companies? (havent tried this before, so i got no idea)

These few weeks I've also thought about career change to finance or management consulting but I think its going to be tougher because I dont have any experience or knowledge in these 2 fields. Or maybe even start my own tutoring business.. so yea..just a thought

volunteer.com, bunnings, small companies on yellow page, walk in with cv, pm on linkedin

TLDR: Graduated, unemployed, got verbally accepted at an interview but they havent responded to any of my emails/calls. Should I call again? Will it seem desperate? :'(

Education & Work

Comments

  • fatal on 10/02/2015 - 12:53
    +17

    Strange situation you're in here as generally with your qualification level + experience, I'd expect companies to at least give you an interview.
    You mentioned being rejected, but does that mean they don't even call you or that you flunk out after interviews? Getting rejected at different points of the process indicates that you are lacking in a certain area - for example, not getting replies to applications generally means your cover letter/resume aren't good enough. Similarly, not progressing beyond the interview process indicates your interview skills might need some brushing up on.

    To give you a bit of a reference, I went through over 85 applications to different companies and 10 interviews before I scored my current job. It was a real hard, depressing slog but at the end of the day I knew it was a numbers game. You need to get yourself out there to as many potential employers as possible and market yourself in the best light. I had the support of my girlfriend and parents to get me through, but in the end the job that I ended up with was much better than all the other ones I applied for.

    I was on a 70K package + bonuses in IT with flexible hours before I had even finished uni (3 years ago), so while observers may call it luck - it actually came down to perseverance and confidence in myself.

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 13:10

      Yeah i dont know, a lot rejected without interviewing (maybe I think because my construction experience didnt match their consultancy type of work) and got rejected after interview (even after I think I did really well during interview- was confident, gave all the good examples in team work, problem solving skill etc. used STAR technique).. I just dont know :(

      I think my resume is top notch. I made changes to it based on this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonyoushaei/2014/08/27/resumes/

      I guess i will just need to keep applying then.. but this boutique construction job though… i dont know what to do.. :/ They were so confident in recruiting me and now, at least just update me or complete reject me instead of leaving me hanging like this

      • Ughhh on 10/02/2015 - 13:58
        +3

        Is it possible that employers may get the impression that you might be too good for them? I find lots of example resumes I see on the career website make you sound like you're a little up yourself, thus probably not a good fit for the companys culture.

        • knackers on 12/02/2015 - 16:21
          +5

          I agree, you may need to tailor you CV to the specific job. I had to remove any mention of a PhD to land a design engineering role. Higher education is seen as a negative in Engineering unless you plan to work in Academia, CSIRO or DSTO.

        • cryptos on 13/02/2015 - 20:02

          @knackers: Yep, why would an employer hire someone who appears too driven and ambitious, they are generally looking to fill a role with someone who will be stable in that role. You need to tailor your resume to the role, not harp on about 80+ marks, be humble and only reference this if asked (nobody likes a smartarse :) and paper marks do not always translate into practical abilities)

    • PurchaseAnxiety on 12/02/2015 - 11:50

      "I was on a 70K package + bonuses in IT with flexible hours before I had even finished uni"

      Can I just ask you about this point (as well as anyone else that may have some advice). How did this work? Was your employer happy to wait for you to finish your degree, or were you just slogging through full / part time study while working the job? I ask because I finish my degree in July this year, and I'm not too sure at what point I should start applying for work.

      I've done some looking about. Graduate entry positions seem to be drying up, and most job ads request an immediate start (not to mention everyone wanting 3+ years of experience).

      • sagrules on 12/02/2015 - 13:55

        Apply immediately don't wait for July to come around and once you got the job you can negotiate a start date. If they really like you they might be flexible to your needs.

      • fatal on 12/02/2015 - 14:47
        +6

        I didn't want to end up like some of my mates and finish up a degree and be unable to find a job for 1+ years.
        Basically, I applied with a year left on my degree with the intention of studying part-time if I could score a job.

        The whole process start to end took around 3 months from the time I started freshening up my resume to the time I got the job offer - you will need to factor in this time as well. As soon as I signed the employment contract, I changed the study mode from FT to PT and just took it easy with the study while concentrating on getting upskilled with industry certs/experience. By the time I finished the degree, I had 2 years of industry experience + a number of things like AWS Solution Architect certs, RHEL certs etc.

        • PurchaseAnxiety on 12/02/2015 - 17:39

          Thanks for the info. To pester you with one more question, I will also be entering the IT industry, with a couple of years of work experience in IT training. In your opinion, what certificates do you think are essential and/or highly beneficial to have?

        • fatal on 13/02/2015 - 12:19
          +1

          @OldMateNate:

          Good question and one that is highly dependent on what you're actually doing in IT. For example, I work at a hosting company that focusses primarily on Linux/Open Source tech. Cisco and Oracle are hated here so certificates in either of them would not have been helpful in getting in and would probably expose you to some underlying prejudices during the interview processes.

          On the other hand RHEL certs, AWS certs, OpenStack certs would be highly valued and appreciated. I really think it's more important to portray yourself as competent but willing to learn/study new skills during the interview process.

        • PurchaseAnxiety on 13/02/2015 - 13:10

          @fatal: Really helpful advice. Thanks mate.

    • travelwiz on 12/02/2015 - 19:22
      +3

      go & do something anything.

      Mow lawns, do charity work so you don't get into the downward spiral of being out of work longterm.

      It's not about the money.

  • Cheeper on 10/02/2015 - 12:57
    +9

    Employment with small boutique businesses can be unreliable anyway so best to keep looking.

    Exam results are not the end all and be all of an employee selection criteria, far from it. Look at it from their side, sure they want to employ someone with high skill levels but it can be those other little extras that seal the deal and make you stand out. There are many reasons that an applicant with A+ theory ratings could be considered unsuitable.

    "Would calling him so many times make me seem desperate?"
    Desperate? He has your contact details so why bother, keep fishing.

    Don't pin your hopes on one position, go for as many as you can and don't be too particular.
    Sometimes the best jobs can develop from those that seem otherwise.

    • tohara on 12/02/2015 - 20:00

      This. If you think your marks are going to get you a job you can think again. While they're important and show good work ethic and commitment it doesn't mean you're a good employee, that's why interviews are key.

      Take for example doing medicine at uni. Most major universities around the country take only the best of the best to do medicine, those with the best marks primarily. This doesn't necessarily translate to being a good doctor, i'm sure you would have had a least one experience with a doctor where you were less than thrilled with their bed side manner. At James Cook university in North Qld you can get an interview with yr 12 scores around 80% however the decision whether you'll be accepted or not is based entirely on how you perform in the interview and whether the interviewers believe you will make a good doctor.

  • MondaySleeper on 10/02/2015 - 13:00
    +11

    I was also in the same boat some time ago. depression is a monster and a vicious cycle. Good and Bad times come and go in our life. what you need is persistence. Keep focused and your day will come. You are young and whole heaps of years are in front of you.

    Try to call the would-be employer again by Thursday and see if there is any progress. But just don't cling on to it, rather expand your search. there is one for you, sure.

    Sab

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 13:12
      +2

      I would say im falling into the trap of clinging onto 1 employer partly because Im too lazy to fix resumes n find others.. Guess I need to keep looking

      • donga100 on 10/02/2015 - 14:07
        +3

        im falling into the trap of clinging onto 1 employer partly because Im too lazy to fix resumes n find others

        This is really common and easy to fall in to. Think about it this way though, the few hours (hundreds?) you spend perfecting your resume, writing personalised cover letters, seeking feedback from interviews, etc. is going to achieve the largest $ return on time invested that you will get for a long time. Just finding a job a month sooner could be worth $5k or more monthly salary. Finding a better job could be worth $10-20k at the end of the year.

  • cupcake on 10/02/2015 - 13:12
    +11

    Chin up and keep looking. Don't give up.

  • chazfg on 10/02/2015 - 13:13
    +3

    Hi there, you shouldn't feel depressed. There are highly qualified civil engineers with mouths to feed that are looking for work at the moment. Being a graduate engineer, you will need to stand out from the crowd, either academically or personally, learn to accept that networking is much more powerful than a resume alone.

    Don't measure yourself with others, but do brush up your interview skills and build up your confident. I spent 7 months working on pizza chain as manager while looking for work, so maybe what you need is a similar distraction. I have since been working for 10 years as an engineer in a mining company.

    Company don't hire people on verbal/promises, so until you receive something in a written format, consider yourself open to other opportunities.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/02/2015 - 13:17
    +8

    Call them employer again.. and the next day too..

    I applied for a job as an Engineer, wasn't the fit for it, the interview was pretty average.
    Called them a few times over the week, this kept my name at the front of the queue (That Guy called again? .. He must be keen)

    Eventually got a call back, said I didn't get the Job.. but they had a position in a different apartment if I was interested. So I took it (Turns out that position was way better, less pay but company car and a lot of out of office work)
    6 months later the guy that got the Engineer position over me got Fired..
    And I just walked straight into the position. :)

    Moral of the Story is, in this day and age there are more people that want jobs then there is jobs. You have to stand out from the crowd.
    Get them to know your name, get them to remember you ..

    On a side note, I found that 4 of the 5 interviews I have been in, I got a job with that company because of my personality even though my skills were not the best, the fact that I had passion drive and enthusiasm and could crack a smile and have a laugh got me leaps in front of the others.
    While they new my skills were not the best compared to others they knew that they could tweak my training to their needs.

    Good luck!
    Make that call! :)

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 13:31

      I can see where youre comming from but I dont think my situation is same .. I called up way too many times already and I think its not because of the suitability but more that the employer at boutique firm is busy with other things ( i think im the only guy theyve interviewed) but anyway, thanks for sharing

  • arend on 10/02/2015 - 13:49
    +21

    Umeployed and Depressed

    I'd be depressed too if I was "umeployed" :)

    But seriously:
    You presumably did Civil at UNSW judging by the construction firm and your student number username.
    Me too - finished 2009

    My answer: get out of Sydney!
    There are plenty of grad jobs in the country and its cheaper to live too.
    My background is in councils and I know there are several of those jobs at the moment.
    Search "Shoalhaven engineer" in Seek if you don't believe me.

    Send me a PM if I can help at all…

    • mskeggs on 11/02/2015 - 08:47
      +6

      In before "oh, I couldn't possibly leave Sydney…"

    • fLamous on 12/02/2015 - 09:36

      also depressing is that our student numbers had 0 or 1 as the second digit…. so old right now…

  • grabngo on 10/02/2015 - 13:52
    -3

    Hi
    1.Dont do anything stupid
    2.People are over-rated.
    They just want you to hang on
    This is the way of the nasty world we live in
    Hang in there
    U will be fine
    What comes around goes around.

  • nomoneynoproblems on 10/02/2015 - 14:40
    +3

    Maybe it's in your name?

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 15:59
      +2

      Haha I read the other post, no my names a common western one

      • Scrooge McDuck on 12/02/2015 - 12:37
        +10

        Do you have excellent social skills?

        The HR people undertook an arts degree rather than one with actual technical rigour. They therefore are apathetic to your intellectual achievements and will assess you on what they value: personality.

        Ability is nothing, appearance is everything.

        • zeomega on 12/02/2015 - 23:18
          +1

          Engineering firms typically have engineers doing the interviews with possibly a HR person during one or more of the courses of interviews.

          But i do agree social skills are much needed.

        • cryptos on 13/02/2015 - 20:04

          HR people have all the social skills of a sleazy used car salesman!

  • firedragon on 10/02/2015 - 16:18
    +3

    Keep going OP! Something will come up.

    • sagrules on 12/02/2015 - 11:45

      I suggest setting up a LinkedIn profile if you haven't already and connect to friends who are working in the industry you want and see if they know of any jobs available. I was smart enough to apply for grad jobs a year before I even graduated knowing how tough the competition can be for those jobs.

      The more interviews you go to the better you get at answering the questions and comfortable with your answers. You could even apply for jobs you dont really want just to get some practice to be ready for the real thing or practice interview techniques with some friends to give you tips at what you could be doing wrong. Just my 2cents.

      With the smaller companies I find that they tend to hire quickly if they need someone as they dont have as many hoops or processes to jump through. Or in the case where they have already hired someone but keeping you as a back up if the one they hired doesn't work out. Hope you find something soon.

      • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:26

        Yeah I got a linkedin profile, its pretty much at 100% fully complete.. I get about 5 views per month atm, just friends looking at it. I dont think anybody from hr is looking at it.

        • Alk on 12/02/2015 - 23:19

          Mate, just having a LinkedIn profile is not good enough. How many connections do you have? and of that how many of them are in your field of study? and of that how many of them could be your potential colleague or boss? You need to keep adding connections. Search for companies you are interested in and then look for individuals who may be doing what you would like to do or managers and try to connect with them. Don't use the standard LinkedIn message instead let them know that you are a civil engineering graduate and looking for a Job and would like to connect. All the best!

        • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:32

          @Alk: hm, thats something new! is it true that sometimes you cant send messages unless you pay premium on linkedin?

        • Alk on 13/02/2015 - 20:37

          @z3289598: You can get LinkedIn premium free for 30days.

      • roiboi123 on 13/02/2015 - 22:00

        ahhhh linkedin…the closest thing a married person has to Tinder

  • piggyfund on 10/02/2015 - 16:49
    +1

    They may still call you when they have time, don't wait by the phone, just keep applying for other jobs so you have options, if they are this relaxed and keep you hanging like this maybe you do not want to work for a firm like this anyway.

  • [Deactivated] on 10/02/2015 - 17:20
    +2

    Join the club.. 1 year out with a double degree in eng/science with the same 1 year experience (graduated in the top 5%) and after many job applications all I get is rejections..

    Completed a grad cert to pass time but saw that a further waste of time and money.. Time to start a new career for me perhaps… I really hate twiddling my thumbs waiting so I might look into a trade, something that I could of done years ago..

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 21:26

      what are your plans? Starting a business what kind? I've been thinking too… but..

    • Talonparty on 11/02/2015 - 19:20

      Yeah I had the same issue a couple of years ago. Eng/science double degree. After one year I took further postgrad study but in a while I'll be back in the same position, freshly graduated but unemployed and still looking for that first after-uni job :(

      my mrs is having the same issue with accountancy too, probably just a sign of the economy.

      • GameChanger on 12/02/2015 - 00:06
        +2

        Its a vicious cycle!

        Graduate= Over qualified for entry level
        Graduate + Post Grad= Over qualified for graduate level

        The economy has definitely slowed down, but employers at the moment are spoiled with choice at the graduate level. You have people from overseas with years of experience willing to work min wage! And loads of local graduates thanks to the govt, which have made degrees less valuable.

  • rvsure on 10/02/2015 - 17:24
    +5

    This happens with most of the small companies. They interview people for some project they are expecting in near future and when the project approvals gets delayed they delay the on-boarding. In your case it appears that they are playing safe by not saying yes or no to you and keeping you waiting instead of losing you.

    I know it is easy to say don't get depressed but I know the feeling of being unemployed. It took me a year to find the right job after Uni. Keep yourself busy and try to improve your skills. I didn't realize what I was lacking until I beat an interview.

    • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 21:29

      hm youre most probably right in saying they're playing safe.. I was so crazy in wanting to know the answer, either they want me or reject me, not tentalising with me. Now that you say this, it makes sense.. and I have my answer enough for me to continue searching.. Cheers

  • SaberX on 10/02/2015 - 19:24
    +6

    Happens to some of us. Got out of uni and landed a mid tier accounting firm. Cohorts just as smart if not less smart got big 4 jobs. Chevron etc all paying well etc. They were less hard working in attitude and without sounding stuck up i think i am generally smarter albeit slower to take things up initially. I do learn things and the essence behind it so i really gain a strong understanding and hence excel faster once i get some initial guidance.

    I put it down to two main things: ourself (in hindsighr i lacked the exp and procrastinated in firing out grad job apps left right centre) and sometimes pure luck and coincidence on who reviews your resume and gives you the thumbs up for an interview.

    For me i am generally better as a people person i.e interviews. Prior to my current role i struggled to break free from publix practice (accounting firm employment) into commercial (an accountant /finance team for a business). In the end i somehow got my mining role as a foot (any foot) into the door having heard of the role from someone i randomly met at the ball years ago of the said individual friend i accompanied, earning 6 figures a yr or two out of uni where i always felt smarter and more street smart thaN.

    Life is funny in that way. We can't do more than try to improve where you aren't getting past e.g. if it's the interview then brush that up. Short of that apply for everythinf and anything. You don't sound like you procrastinate like me which is great. Terrible terrible habit. Apply like you and your family's life depdepends on it.

    Meanwhile try looking for voluntary work exp in your intended industry. F ailing that get casual work to earn money and keep your social/people skills and mental space in check. Sounds hard but then try to pursue as much hobbies. Interest and travel/appreciation of things with your spare time as i can assure you now that one day you will land a job and you will be wishing you had all this free time up your hands.

    Lots of people looking for jobs in a worsening economic environment so keep trying.

    • SaberX on 10/02/2015 - 19:25

      Also follow up but don't be that Stalkerish guy calling for an update every second hour. I would just call or email once a day or two. Why else would you need to call then also email on the same day? It may show your keen or to dsome hr staff you may just come across as that naggy guy

      • Thenarrator on 10/02/2015 - 21:37

        What you described in your first paragraph, I think i'm 100% same. Slow at start but I understand every nook and cranny to do well in the long term. Not sure if this is a good thing.

        and "apply like you and your family's life depend on it", I should have this kinda thought behind my head. serves good motivation, cheers.

        Question though, I used to only find voluntary work at uni campus. Where do you find fun voluntary work post graduate? (prefer with lots of young people)

        • November14 on 11/02/2015 - 21:25

          Oh. The Victorian AIDS Council = good voluntary work with lots of young people. Contact them. Also, I think volunteering in construction industry is better for you. You'll meet important people who might be able to fastrack you to a job.

    • November14 on 11/02/2015 - 21:22

      Your advice echoed with what I went through. I'm 1000% agree. I did exactly that (cafe work, social skills, maintaining mental space etc) and now I wish I had done more things when I was waiting for jobs.

  • BobD on 11/02/2015 - 07:52
    +14

    You guys can neg this if you want but I wonder if the spelling and grammar construction in your posting comes through in your resumes?

    Remember that a lot of the people doing the hiring are older and know their spelling etc. (not ect.) and some of them don't like it when a resume or cover letter has obvious mistakes.

    Get an oldie to proof them for you. Even the Word spell and grammar checker stuffs up on certain words and phrases so beware of that.

    OK, I have my tinfoil hat on now and I hope I didn't make any stuff ups in this post.

    Good luck in your job hunting and be persistent.

    • snook on 12/02/2015 - 14:00
      +6

      I agree, and he's also sent a lot of emails which likely had mistakes.

      If I pick up a resume, or cover letter, full of errors, out it goes. It's unfortunate but true.

      • duchy on 13/02/2015 - 13:10
        +1

        First thing that came to my mind! Grammar mistakes are your biggest issue. Also your school record means absolutely nothing out in the real world. Get used to it.

        • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:40

          i dont think I have any striking grammar mistakes

        • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2015 - 21:23

          @z3289598: I know it's only the Ozbargain comments section, but that needed capitalization, an apostrophe and a full stop! Hopefully your correspondence with potential employers does not have these mistakes.

        • Ughhh on 13/02/2015 - 21:58
          +1

          @z3289598:

          For things like resumes and cover letters where you're not under pressure, there's no "striking" or "little" mistakes. Mistakes are mistakes, enough for an employer to believe that you have little attention to detail.

        • effgee on 13/02/2015 - 22:35

          @JLove:

          +1

          I'd be qualified as "an oldie" I guess and if you can't proof read and spell check your resume and cover letter then I've already formed a bad first impression of you as an applicant. A job application is super critical in terms of its potential effect on your life, I expect the effort to be put in and eliminate any mistakes.

          Engineering is a pretty formal and stuffy environment, everything must conform to published standards, if your resume doesn't conform to spelling/grammar/punctuation then you're losing points with prospective employers.

        • snook on 14/02/2015 - 13:56
          +3

          @z3289598: You don't think? So just maybe that's a problem you need to consider. Here's just a couple I pulled from your initial spiel, grammar with typos:

          he havent responded.

          He hasn't responded.

          didnt think it'll end in hot discussions.

          I didn't think it would end …
          (or) I didn't think it'd end …

          so i got no idea

          I have no idea. I remember my English teacher saying to avoid using 'got' like this, because it is very informal and sounds trashy.

        • UFO on 14/02/2015 - 15:40
          +2

          @snook:

          100% agree with this post. OP's initial post sounded like English was not his first language. I would think that first impression either on phone or at interview counts for a lot more that academic results.

          OP, you need to get an honest opinion from someone on how you present/talk/type. If you are striking out to others inferior to you academically, they've obviously got something you don't have. You need to find out what that is… but you need it from someone who wont be politically correct and sensitive. The truth- for all its pain, will at least give you the answers you seek.

  • SlickMick on 11/02/2015 - 09:16

    I'd have thought if the resume was the problem you wouldn't get to the interview??
    When my wife doesn't get offered a job, she rings and asks what she could do to improve.

    On the other hand, I have a friend who is packing shelves because he can't get a job in that game.
    I also know someone in a related field (I think) that is struggling to find work for his business.
    Maybe there just isn't enough work atm for the number of applicants?? But if you want to be on the top of the list, then yeah I guess find out what others are doing differently.

  • woz on 11/02/2015 - 10:47
    +2

    I'll offer three variations on why you should chill out a bit and not chase quite so hard.
    First, if what you're doing isn't working, do something different. So if calling isn't working, then stop calling.
    Second, when you're chasing girls, the old motto is treat em mean and keep em keen. I lost one girl I was really keen on because I called too often, and replied to her emails a little too quickly. It's easy now to see in hindsight how desperate I must have looked, but it wasn't easy for me to see at the time. That lesson doesn't only apply to girls.
    Third, the only good thing about hitting your head against a brick wall is… stopping. Go fishing for a couple of days. Or a week. You'd be amazed how many stories there are along the lines of 'the moment I decided to stop chasing was when I found what I was looking for.'
    Cheers

  • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2015 - 10:50

    Networking is becoming the key to securing a decent job. Get on Linkedin, look for suitable groups, think of anyone that you know who may be able to help, or has a friend of a friend in the industry.
    It's the future.

  • pointblank on 11/02/2015 - 21:06
    +2

    As a civil eng with 3 years experience I can tell you it is sure a tough time. I work for a large international consulting firm, yet it isn't that big in Australia. I got in just as the industry was crashing and it was still very tough. I managed to get the job because I had a year of undergrad experience at a small boutique consultancy that was well known in their field. By small I mean really small and I worked for free for my 60 day placement then got a small hourly rate after that.

    BTW - imho consulting is a tough gig especially in the current climate. I would advise even considering council/government/utilities work. The starting salaries in these areas are pretty good and they have excellent work life balances. Obviously if you could work directly for industry in oil and gas (tough now) or some other non-mining/oil company then give that a shot, they usually pay really well for grads. Consulting doesn't pay that well at the start, when you're busy you'll be working overtime frequently without pay or reward under stress and when you're not busy you're client ratio drops drastically and you'll be constantly looking over your shoulder for the HR guy who's responsible for making people redundant. When times are good, I think consulting would be amazing but unfortunately that time isn't now.

    • Thenarrator on 11/02/2015 - 21:12
      +1

      wow thanks for insight, no idea consultancy is so bad atm, i'd thought construction was bad.

    • mskeggs on 11/02/2015 - 21:24
      +2

      Ausdrill, Coffey, Cardno, Boart Longyear, Forge and others are being belted by cancelled and deferred contracts, mainly from the downturn in mining. They hired a lot of staff in the boom, and now need to work out what to do with them.
      A lot of their ex-staff are moving toward construction, so I am not surprised it is a tough job market.

      • Serapis on 12/02/2015 - 00:05
        +2

        Mining and mining services cuts atm, left, right and center… Many of the engineers from those industries have been slowly moving into civil causing more competition and engineer oversupply since around 2013. Not surprised grad jobs getting harder to find in 2015 economic climate with the current oil oversupply at the moment which is knocking out some more of the smaller mining / drilling companies too..

        However, would still recommend to keep applying. Your exp and marks should technically place you in a better position than other grads but you might stand out too much, not always a good thing as mentioned above. Maybe modify the resume to understate yourself a bit and surprise them during the interview. Better have an interview where they have lower expectations than to have no interview at all.

        • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:33

          hmm, yeah I tried to lower it a bit.. but now the problem for me is actually finding the job. I've pretty much applied all that there is to apply in seek.com for junior/graduate positions. Also did google for jobs.. I don't know where else to find jobs at :S

        • pointblank on 13/02/2015 - 12:28

          @z3289598: Here's a list of companies that are on Engineers Australia's PDP program: http://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/professional-developmen…

          It may be useful to take a look through them, I would have found it useful when I was graduating if I knew about that list. There's also a bunch of small companies that won't be on that list that would offer really good experience and higher probability of employment if you walked in with your CV.

        • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 13:37

          @pointblank: Do you usually find these small companies through yellowpages or…? because I know theyre unlikely to be on google .. =S

        • pointblank on 13/02/2015 - 16:25

          @z3289598: The small company that I got experience with was one I happened to pass while on the bus on the way to uni each morning. Google will still have a lot of smaller companies, though they might not be near the top of page. Try searching for specialist engineering firms in civil (they'll usually be small) like geotechnical, stormwater, structural, traffic modelling etc. Otherwise yellow pages for sure. If you search for 'engineering companies' you'll usually get the Fortune 500 or top Australian companies.

          Some people who post here will tell you that they deserve their position, it had nothing to do with luck and they're on insane money because they worked hard and everyone else is just slack. At the end of the day though it is just a numbers game, if you score well at uni, improve your resume, change the way you approach potential employers then your likelihood of getting a job will go up. Regardless of this even the most organised person can get unlucky and some of the slackers can get extremely lucky on their first go (or have family connections). The key is to keep at it and not let it get you down and eventually something will come up.

    • vincent0923 on 13/02/2015 - 14:57
      +1

      fully agree. similar expreience and same situation here.

  • November14 on 11/02/2015 - 21:17
    +5

    My advice for you is: Persistence. Patience. Humility.

    Keep going no matter how many times you are rejected. In the meantime, do other jobs to keep money coming in ie: hospitality jobs. With that, you will meet more people, talk to more people, and more doors will open. Believe that a job will come to you eventually, but also keep in mind that it can also slip away from you anytime. Keep grounded.

    I am a Masters graduate from supposedly the best university in Australia. After my Masters graduation, with 3 internships under my belt and half a year of being professionally abused by an employer, I had to work 9 hours everyday at a cafe and work for free for around 3 hours for an office everyday after my cafe hours.

    Like all my uni years, I had to pay rent, so I just had to keep going. I even had to sleep in a friend's living room to cut my expenses. This happened for a good 7 months.. before I got an office job. Funnily enough it was THE job that fits my interest throughout uni years and I couldn't feel more blessed.

    It was almost 100 resumes and more than 10 interviews. Had I not done the cafe work and free hours at the company, I don't think I would have gotten where I am now. So, persevere and be patient, you'll be fine.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:36

      hmm thanks. A lot of companies dont offer unpaid employment though. How should I start this off? cold calling employers and ask for a chance? i dont know, havent tried this before and dont know what to say.

  • boonanza on 11/02/2015 - 21:49
    +1

    My 18 year old son did work experience at carpentry and was told he pretty much had the job as an apprentice and they would let him know the following week. They never rang him & he never contacted them as he knew after a few days he didn't get the job and that's an 18 year old. When going for a job if they don't ring you then don't bother ringing them!

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:38

      arghh, but they were so firm in letting me work. sigh… They still havent called me but I cant imagine them rejecting me without even calling me to let me know. Thats just plain unprofessional

      • BartholemewH on 13/02/2015 - 18:35

        Many, MANY businesses in Australia are unprofessional.

        Edit: Today a small business customer that had been trading with us since start up 15 months ago told us she can't pay the $5800 she accrued in the last couple of months because she didn't realise her business would have to pay tax. This isn't even a joke, in the mean time she is buying her supplies at Coles.

        • Thenarrator on 13/02/2015 - 21:18

          In my situation, it would be like the business customer not even bother telling you they cant pay.. I'm getting snobbed by the business, if he could even tell me he rejected me already so then at least I can ask them why.. omg..

  • halfaznpersuasion on 11/02/2015 - 23:22

    Similar position to you, I am currently doing work experience (for free I may add) and i've been given a ton load of work. I'm only doing it because I need experience to graduate and I couldn't get into any graduate work. The boss is an absolute ….insert rude word here and if I quit i can't graduate but enough of my problems.

    I've heard a lot of my friends who been working fast food for a couple years before finding a job. I'd say find a small job if you haven't already and keep applying. I know what you mean by feeling desperate , but I had to keep calling some people to get a reply, it can be a 50 50 where they don't need people or they want you to be interested. It's a tough call.

    • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 21:40

      can I ask how did you initiate a deal with a company to work for free? Is it easier to do so at a smaller company (vs a big one)? Do you start by emailing or calling the director?

      • halfaznpersuasion on 12/02/2015 - 22:27

        it is much easier to do so for a smaller company, but check for companies in your area. A few of my friends went place to place handing in their resumes and ended up getting one, some may even get their boss to come see u. For me, i started by emailing a bigger company for work experience (i was hoping to get paid but i didn't) and i got past the interview. Wish you the best! if you need anything else, let me know

        • Thenarrator on 12/02/2015 - 22:49

          Did you find these small companies via yellow page? a lot of companies dont list themselves online and I dont think many companies will admit themselves as small when I google "small engineering firms" advice?

        • halfaznpersuasion on 16/02/2015 - 10:12

          @z3289598:

          yeah yellow pages is def the way to go, i started off with seek though

  • GameChanger on 11/02/2015 - 23:54
    +5

    Interviews are generally bullshit, end of day it comes down to the person liking you unfortunately. The fact is when you invited to an interview they're at least 5-10 others with the exact same resume or better.

    If you want to get into the big companies, you need to be confident! At the group assessment stage if you suck, you may as well give up. Hell don't even bother if you're an introvert with average/below average grades, because you will be culled. All my friends with average grades credit or below have landed a job at big 4 because they can speak dam well and bullshit which is what the HR look for lol

    If there is one skill that potential students who are reading this, should develop is speaking ability! The number of opportunities for bubbly, well spoken people seem to be endless. Also it does help to be Western for cultural fit purposes lol!

    • Toph Beifong on 18/02/2015 - 00:59

      Completely correct, if you aren't witty and can't come up with quick and coherent replies to questions or if you just can't communicate properly at all then your chances are very slim.

      • Domingo on 18/02/2015 - 14:40

        I disagree. You don't need to be witty and you can be ready for almost everything you might be asked by preparing for it properly.

        When I first start going for summer vac roles, I didn't really know what was going to be asked and even being decent at thinking on my feet, I couldn't answer much of it well with the limited experience that I had.

        I landed an internship after that by learning from the summer vac experience, reading and preparing how to answer their questions with my past experiences.

        The internship set me up perfectly for grad recruitment, where I didn't have to prepare so much because I'd worked in a relevant field and could depend on things I'd done not that long ago as examples of the behavior they want to see. However, if I hadn't done that stuff so recently, looking up sample questions and thinking back to experiences I'd had which would answer them would have been key to getting the same result.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2015 - 00:20

    Hey its not just you in that boat there are many others out there too.

    Took my 2.5 years to land my dream job and I was doing my best to get jobs in the same field as TA or labor just to get noticed and looked at.

    Now im there as I wanted to be and still a battle but one I can easily win and freely move around in now.

  • Azn310 on 12/02/2015 - 01:05
    +2

    Correct me if i'm wrong, i feel that in this country being too good might be an advantage because companies afraid that 'too good' people will leave / jump when they have the chance, for higher salary, because he/she can. That is just the general mindset i reckon. Old saying if its too good to be true, its probably is..

    Anyhow, keep ur chin up bro. Maybe look for something else to do in the mean time so you can get socialized and kick that depression in the a. You never know that other thing you do might give you leads to the things you want to do.

  • mjjeje on 12/02/2015 - 01:32
    +1

    I'm in simlar situation as you. I guess I'm not as good as a person (like I know I'm quite an introvert) compare to academically. I waited 6 months before I got a decent job within my field, then got redundant a year after that. I think a lot of companies in my field start outsourcing the work and only have higher ups in australia (like project managers). And it has been really hard to find a new one eversince.

    I was also tutoring when I was at uni. Initially I though I can do some tutoring again, but seems like the job application is only open for their current students/staff. Fair enough though. My main souce to look for jobs is seek, anyone knows other site/ways to look for opportunities?

    I guess the market/economy is slowing at the moment, so there are more people and not enough job. I guess I have to keep looking. But I don't know I'm starting to lose hope too. I've applied to many jobs. A lot of them, I got straight rejection, some I came in for interview but rejected after (I guess I'm not what they are looking for). Maybe I need to head in a new career direction? Was thinking of doing real estate, but still not sure about that, since I'm scared I might waste more time and money (need to take a course to become an agent). So for now I guess I just need to keep on looking.

  • annoynimous on 12/02/2015 - 02:09
    +9

    job interviews in countries like Australia are based on people relationships and not really on qualifications.

    they don't wanna hear about your 80+ marks, they just want you to make them feel convinced and that you're able to fit in and 'click' with them.

    • Ivan Krazy on 13/02/2015 - 19:34

      This and this is what I have learnt on my internship (and actually got a job out of it). Also a tip, avoid the office politics and just get along with everyone whether you agree or disagree with them!

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 12/02/2015 - 03:09
    +1

    Isn't the ironic rule of job applications that all the offers must come at the same time or not at all?

    If your industry is often fronted by HR with no clue about the actual job get ready to do a lot of smooching. Chances are your electronic CV is lost in the ether and most HR folk aren't IT wizards in the slightest. It's often easier to connect with hirers who are similarly educated and goal-oriented so these days you have to be a bit of a manipulative sociopath to get to the decisive interview with the person that matters. You probably forgot to mention in your CV your typing WPM or the fact you know how to start up and shutdown Microsoft Windows…

  • centrelink on 12/02/2015 - 09:44
    +1

    I gave up working long ago and was the best decision of my life. You too can free yourself from this nonesence. What's the point of wasting 80% of your life on a 9-5 job? People like to call it a career, but to me it sounds like an excuse to justify that its ok to waste your whole lifetime on a 9-5 job..

    nahh screww that

    • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2015 - 10:04

      Yeah, same, the OP could easily get an ABN and start contracting himself out.

      • effgee on 13/02/2015 - 22:41

        sure, there's plenty of firms just waiting to hire a fresh grad with zero experience on contract. /sarcasm

        This is completely unrealistic. If he can't successfully market himself as en employee, contract work is likely to be pretty sparse.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/02/2015 - 13:46

          He should contract out at lower rates… This is the only way to compete. He already has some related experience…

          As an employee, you are subject to the onerous conditions of a minimum wage and penalty rates. You can't compete with those in mind. If the minimum wage was abolished, undoubtedly more people would be employed.

          This is why it was so easy to get a job as an unpaid apprentice in the older generations and build up skills. Today, there are restrictions on how long you can take on an unpaid apprentice and without the contracting option, well, good luck trying to push your wage down low enough to compete, and as a result, gain that additional experience that is required.

          Even CA Accountants bill for X hours, but work for many hours more on a project. It's simple economics, and used to please the client. Eating Time. Literally commonplace in the industry.

        • snook on 24/03/2015 - 17:10

          @josephchi:

          unpaid apprentice in the older generations

          ???
          No such thing. Apprenticeships always paid money.

    • donga100 on 12/02/2015 - 10:49
      +17

      I find having money is useful for a number of purposes.

      • centrelink on 12/02/2015 - 14:26
        +1

        You see, you are limited to what social society makes you what you want to think. Why do you need a job to make money? Why not just not have a job and make money instead?

        • omniX32 on 12/02/2015 - 21:41
          +10

          I feel like you left out the web address…

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