Help me pick and negotiate a damn expensive car

As someone who is pretty tight I find myself in a weird place.

I need to buy an expensive depreciating asset (Car) that I do not need.

It needs to be a new, or hopefully a demo.

I think I have narrowed it down to a BMW X4 35d or Audi RS Q3.

I want it to do ok in re-sale as we'll probably only hold onto it for 3 years.

If it was up to me we'd be buying a 4 year old mazda 3 diesel hatchback.

I realise how ridiculous this is, but I am pretty grateful of the chance to own a nice car I otherwise wouldn't.

Ok, we have a very small car (mini) that we need to give to another family member in the next month or so. As a result we need to get a new car and family is paying for ~80% of the new car with them wanting us to get an X5 or a Range Rover. We are a couple in our mid 30s living in the city with semi-regular regional commutes. The car needs to be new and flashy, read european label and large in size, as the family puts a big importance on this, but I have convinced them to accept a demonstrator (which I can probably extend to dealer "near new" under 3,000km). It can't be too big as to be a nuisance, which is why i'm ruling out the X5 or range rover. Maximum size is probably an X4, even that's a stretch. I'd like something that can hold some of its resale value, as well as can be expected in the circumstances, because we may trade it in down the track (in 3-4 years) for a more practical car. Mrs wants a sunroof (not negotiable) and heated electric seats and can't stand wagons or hatchbacks. I'm a fan of the new BMW diesels for the freeway Ks and $ filling up the tank, I like hatches but a small SUV is probably the compromise.

Budget is around 90-100k and we can't wait 4-5 months for one to be built and shipped, which helps acceptance of the demo. I still want to be as tight as possible, so looking for the best price available, but I've never negotiated with a dealer before except on an old second hand toyota. What are the traps with buying a demo, what's reasonable to negotiate off the asking price? I've never even seen a new car sales brochure…. Should I look at one of those car buying services? I'm a bit annoyed these "premium" brands only give you 3yrs warranty, what a joke when you're paying this much, so I'd like to get a 5yrs with the car but what's the best way to do this? Should we get pre-paid/capped servicing?

Either the mrs or I think these cars look fugly:
X3, X1, 2-series active tourer.
Mercedies GLA45, GLE. Or pretty much any merc. They're old people cars.
Range Rover freelander

My short list so far would be the
X4
I like the look. It has a superb diesel engine and drives pretty good for an SUV. I think it will hold its value the best. But it's right on the maximum size. Deciding between a 30d/35d.

RS Q3
I figured this would hold its value better than an optioned up regular model? I have also heard the smaller diesel in the Q3s isn't great. It also drives really well. Don't like the fuel usage, but that's the trade off for something fun to drive i guess. I don't think it will hold value as well as the X4.

I'm also considering

  • Landrover Evoque (haven't really done enough digging because sale people ignored us) reviews not so good on safety, plus engines a little dated.
  • BMW 4series 4 door Coupe (IMO looks stunning, mrs not a fan as it "looks flat like a pancake")
  • SQ5 (heard good things about the engine, but might be too big)
  • Porsche Macan diesel ($$ options list is longer than my… + would need negotiating skills) too expensive, unless they're going to do very well in resale, not worth it.

Are there any others I should be considering that fit the brief?

TL:DR
Help me pick an new, around X4 size european car, that will hold its resale and is good to drive. How should I go about negotiating?

Comments

  • +1

    Get a Rav 4 and spend the rest on Cigarettes and Alcohol.

    The in laws will totally respect you and celebrate you for bringing class and face to the family.

  • which state are you located in?

  • +1

    I'd be looking at the Merc GLC…the price vs equipment is above par than any other euro brand around. Sizewise it would still seat 5 adults just like the GLE, cut cost almost 20k less.

  • +4

    Mercedes are old people cars? wtf are you smoking?

    • +1

      I'm glad Merc finally ditched their old grill design and switched to something more sporty. BMW on the other hand has kept their pair of nostril grill and looks very old hat.

  •  
    2015 Audi Q7 TDI Auto quattro MY16

  • +1

    I drive an RS3 and it's the best sounding engine you can get south of $300k so if you choose the RSQ3 you won't be disappointed with the sound or the performance.
    Having said that i've driven the RS Q3 a number of times and i just found it awkward, it doesn't really fit into any category and the driving position isn't great.

    Make sure you have a drive of an SQ5, great car in all regards. Looks great, not too big and actually sounds fairly decent (fake or not it still sounds good)

    • Agree with you on the RS3. Test drive the S3 hatch and it was very very good, I can imagine how the RS3 goes and sounds.

    • did you get the 2016? how much was it all up?

  • +2

    lol and here I am wondering if I can even pay rent this week.. :/

    • +4

      No offence to the OP, but it seems that his family really has their priorities right in life :sarcasm:

  • +1

    i would get a macan if i were you,
    if you cant pay that much for a macan get a 2016 rs3 all the way, i know its a hatchback,
    but take your wife to see one and take her for a test drive, im sure she will change her mind.

    • I wouldn't buy a RS3. I'd buy the S3/Mk7R or the A45.

      I waited until I test drove the RS3 before buying the Mk7R. The RS3 has a bit more fat and worst of all, it's beyond the front wheels. There's always an RS3 during track days, but its lap times are always significantly slower (~1.5seconds in a 1:40 course).

      In terms of comfort, RS3 is quite bad. A Merc C300 is a better family car and you'll still have change after optioning it to the teeth.

  • Get an E85 powered Supercharged Mini instead..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjbizDDDJ8

    • I thought you meant the engine from an E85, supercharged, and in a mini. @.@ That would soil a few pairs of pants.

  • You are outdated if you think Merc is an old people car. LOL!
    GLC is selling like hot cakes!

    • Yeah - true.

      I have ordered a GL350 and it's ready for pick up on this Saturday but my wife has changed her mind and din't want to buy that any more.

      We both love the car but we think in our early thirties, this car would probably be unecessarily expensive.. We can afford it but we'd rather put the money on some investments..

      But really nice car…

  • +1

    Audi SQ5 all day long… it is not as big as you'd think either. Make sure to tick all the boxes and you won't regret it. Just go online and check the price of a new vs a mildly used (under 30K kms) and you'll see that for a prestige car it virtually loses no $!

    Yes, there'll be a new one eventually… but the new Q5 is not to be released till late 2017, which means we prob won't get it here in decent numbers till 2018. And then there's the wait till they release the new SQ5!

    No brainer really.

    PS: Now if they're willing to triple that budget, just get the RS6 and be happy! ;)

    • Plenty of support for the SQ5.

      Almost identical in size to the X4 (X4 is narrower but longer). Just looks a lot bigger in the yard. Might be time to re-consider it. Thanks.

      • +1

        No worries! And do get their premium audio option or whatever it's called… amazing!

  • Alfa 4c

    • +1

      Definitely a cool car. Unfortunately part of Fiat Chrysler. No way i'm buying a car from that group. So many horror stories from their customers when things go wrong.

  • +1

    Quick read through your post.
    You are picking the top of the range models.

    Audi
    Anything the "4" level ie. A3, A1, Q3 are too similar to the Volkswagen equivalent in the VAG family.
    Q3 is based off the Volkswagen Golf VI/VII and runs the same engine and gear and did not feel special when I was a passenger. Granted there is the RSQ3 but I have not drove one but the reviews online with EVO, Harry Metcalfe do not make it feel as special or "wow it's a SUV yet it drives like a sports car feeling. RS3 would be the exception and if you got no kids and baby gear then the 2.5 Litre (I believe half the R8 V10 engine) sounds very special.

    Would you or your wife be happy with the stiffer set up of sports model? Or is the value of the glamour of a nice RS/M/AMG more important for you?

    Have you considered the Audi A5 3.0L diesel sportsback (had Quatrro and hatchback so maybe a good compromise from a SUV and sportier hatchback profile without going to a Avant) which is about 90K on carsales. May give you most of the speed you need but a bit softer set up and more luxurious than sports luxury

    Also the A4 is going to be superseded soon. Land Rover Evoque just updated overseas and maybe updating more into the Ingenium engines.

    Personally looking at your living situation I would pick the RS3. The M235i or M2 or a Levorg STI

    • Thanks, RS3 is definitely up there. I've also heard it's half of the Lamborghini (R8) engine. It will take a bit of convincing the mrs though, she hates hatchbacks (even though we drive a mini cooper now!)

      Feeling was that these Hero models (i.e. M/RS/AMG) hold their resale better than an optioned up lower model? That's the vibe I get from checking on used sales. Is that right?

      M2 or M235 would be great, but it's a two door.
      M3 mrs wont consider a 3 series, "they're as common as corollas, everyone has one of those"

      Audi A5 3.0L Diesel
      Agree, spotted that sportsback in the yard. It's delicious. Maybe I can do some convincing.

      • I'm not sure if the hero models hold their value better by the percentage value retained but you're still losing out on the absolute difference. 20% of 100K is always going to be 20% of the ever green corolla.

        My feeling is that hero models and 'niche' products are selling to a more select group. A used car buyer looking for a Corolla will probably be different to someone looking for the RS3 and possible a person an interest in the car and will know the differences and appreciate carbon fibre reinforcements etc

        If 3 series is too mainstream then the 4 series is really the same underpinning but with the sportback look. I think (and don't quote me) it comes with some M-Sport suspension tweaks on it as well.

        I'm the of those people who own a 3 series and ironically there is a Corolla in the family as well so I guess I'm one of those commoners

        Also check if the AMG/M/RS come with service plans as they are more specialised engines and 'bespoke'

        Seriously if she wanted something unique just get the new Clubman and pick custom leather swatches

        • No having a go, re 3 series. Just what the mrs thinks ;)

          There is a reason you see a few of them. They're excellent cars. Other family members have the 320d and 330i and I've driven both. Both are excellent. But I think the 4 looks great.

          Mini. We were looking at the clubman/countryman before the family offered to buy as a car actually. Mini are good cars, but the base price includes nothing, really just the shell. By the time you've optioned up to a nice level you're looking at a 30-40% premium on the base price. I think that they're also very individual things. So the second hard market could be a bit depressed. You're buying someone else's creation.

          I still wince when I imagine the mrs buying her mini. Dealer asked what options she wanted, I think she just replied "yes".

          Re-service plan. I'm definately leaning that way, I have a private mechanic who is excellent. But he's just one guy, and considering the complicated engines I might need to look at dealer servicing.

        • @ChickenTalon:

          I had the BMW Service Inclusive and it was pretty good. COvered the brakes and rotors if you burn through them but I mainly do highway driving and I'm getting about 100K for the rear pads and 150 K for the front. I think that makes pricing predictable. A few simple things broke under warranty and the Service centre just sorted it out without questioning the warrnaty issue

          I think if you want a 'unique' 3 Series it would be the new BMW 330e. You're mainly in the city so you might get some value from the PHEV.

          Random thought is the Infiniti Q50 Hydbrid AWD model. It's goingot devalue like crazy but you might be able to negotiate a deal as no one buys a Infiniti at the moment though I have a soft spot for SKylines/Q50 since our family owned what looked like a C110 model.

          INfiniti Q30 if you can wait is just an A-Class under pinning but a little different

          The S3 as suggested below is quite a nice sleeper car but at that price I would make serious consideration for the Golf R

  • I need to buy an expensive depreciating asset (Car) that I do not need.

    Something from the left field: is it possible to consider purchasing a cheaper car and — in car speak — negative gearing? you'd probably get at least the same amount of depreciation if not more.

    Though on the other hand having a bling car is nice. Each to their own I guess.

  • +1

    Surprised no one has mentioned the new Landrover Discovery Sport. Beats the Evoque on so many levels and price is much more competitive. Quite a lot now on the road as its gaining popularity. Not as large as the Range Rover but bigger than the Evoque. We bought one and love it. Originally looking at the Merc but this definately won us over as a luxury family suv and value for money.

    Not sure is be looking into an Audi - with the issues they have faced lately a lot of people I know who bought regret their decision thinking of potential resale.

  • You guys in Australia have it so cheap and good. Cars in Singapore are ridiculously priced.

    For $100k, you can buy a toyota altis (its on sale for $108k).

    A Porsche macan (without S) is $270k and X4 is $250k. And now, the sing dollar higher than aud!

    On another note, the Q7 ($360k here) is a fantastic drive. If you can wait, go for the new E class due to be released mid year

    • Singapore is a dictatorship. too bad for you

  • +1

    Who told you European cars are good and reliable? Reliable is something I would measure in a car that goes for 20+ years and is affordable to keep. The reason you don't see many older European cars is because they generally are expensive on parts. If you keep it for 3 years and sell/trade it in ANY car will run well for 3 years provided you service at proper intervals, they all give you that warranty. All cars depreciate, as soon as you buy a $100k car you lost $5-10k easy. If you bought $100k car brand new, no one who has $95k is going to go ohh I saved $5k by buying your car. They will assume it's a lemon. They will spend the extra $5-10k at a dealership; and if you don't believe me then why don't you look for a second hand 2015 model?

    I guess what I'm trying to say is you are buying a car for 3 years which technically you're not even paying for, pick one that makes you happy. You can't go wrong. I mean you can go wrong, you need to learn there's a lemon tree in every automobile manufacturers factory. Good luck with not getting the Monday morning, or Friday afternoon lemon.

    • You can buy old, 10 year+, Euro super expensive cars very cheaply. I guess that is because they are not that reliable and cost a lot to maintain.

    • +1

      This is directly from Freakonomics. A great read.

      • Should be essential reading! an outstanding book, even though they have their critics. Great way to think and question the world.

      • what is freakonomics?

        • +1

          Killer book.
          Challenges the way we tend to think about things and how that relates to economics. Great fun.

  • +3

    If you haven't seen the new gens of Merc cars, I advise you to take a look. They are gorgeous. I just bought a C200, managed to get it through a fleet seller / corporate service included. But you can't really negotiate with the people in the merc dealerships. I was so irritated by the guys attitude to giving me a better price (which people had obtained on whirlpool), that I walked out on him. Absolutely love my car. C200 W205, beautiful car, amazing features and safety (I added the AMG pack and the vision pack). $75k all up.

    Be warned, it took me around 6 months to get it though.

    • +1

      I would stay away from the sedan, they're made in South Africa (same as the BMW 3 series). The wagon comes in from Germany. If I'm paying Germany prices I expect a German car.

      • +1

        Made/Makes absolutely no difference if the company has correct QC.

        • +1

          The operative word is 'IF'.

        • @JB1:

          Well i haven't heard/seen any negative feedback about the South African construction. So until then…

        • @hypie:

          Of course you won't get the manufacturers go release the data but anecdotally the German made cars are built to a higher standard.

          Thats why only the cheaper models are built outside Germany. They wouldn't risk their more expensive models to be built in SA/USA.

          X5 build quality and QC isn't good (USA), I would say pretty crap to be honest.

          SA built C class and 3 series aren't screwed together and painted to the same standard compared to the German ones. However reliability wise they should be the same, it's the fit and fisnish.

          Having said that, I'd take a SA built Merc/BMW over an USA built one anyway.

    • Mate, thats expensive. I got mine with the vision pack for $60K drive away and did not have to wait. Brand new too - not a demo or anything! Do agree, its a beaut. And the GLC sounds like a perfect alternative to the VW aka Audi Q5 or BMWs X3 and probably will beat them on price and features.
      good on you Merc for bringing sexy back!

      • That sounds like an amazing deal, sadly I fear Perth tax caused me to get desperate and take what I could get. Diesel Motors tried to sell me the base unit for about $75k (no extras).

        $67,996.18 + what $3000 for the vision pack? + $1500 for metallic paint + $5000 for AMG pack?

        AMG pack is the one that takes 6 months though. It was worth it.

        Buying off the lot is always well cheaper.

  • +2

    Hmmm. The original post is kind of in the wrong forums but anyway I have some ideas.

    For cars with the lowest depreciation which are also a "nice" european car. The lowest depreciating cars I've heard about are personally imported 2nd hand collectible/rare cars from overseas eg. Corvette, Ferrari, Maserrati, etc.

    If you end up choosing to buy from an Australian new car dealer then for your situation I would recommend using a car broker. Just tell them the car model and the options you'd like. They will do the leg work for sourcing and price negotiations.

    I've driven exotic cars including Lamborghini, Ferrari, Lotus. Plus heard the complaints of friends who own Maserati, Porsche, BMW. I'm a pragmatist and personally I find exotics HIGHLY overrated in speed, grip, road noise.

    You've mentioned giving the previous car to a family member. I recommend you consider switching from European to a Japan equivalent. Japanese cars suffer lower depreciation and are more reliable. When you are bored of the car you can donate it again to that appreciative family member who will receive many years usefulness. You will have doubled the number of owners who have enjoyed the car. Plus you've saved the environment from another unreliable Euro-car ending up in the scrapyard.

  • i don't get it. Why are your values so different from your family's?

    • in-laws :)

      • +2

        How much are they contributing to the purchase of a flashy house or have they already bought you one?

  • +1

    To me, out of that lot, the RS Q3 is a standout. by far the cheapest RS model you can buy, and it's got the "wank factor" that your partner clearly wants (for whatever reason).

    EDIT - aside from the absurd assertions that hatches are ugly/horrible the Golf R is probably a good option too. highly luxurious, good looking car, and it'll hold its value well - plenty of well-optioned demos floating around too.

    • agree with you there re hatches some of them look great, for me they're just so damn practical. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder i guess.

      • I daresay that assertions about "beauty" are being substituted for what would otherwise be unsavoury and crass comments about whether a car is otherwise "classy" enough, or enough of a status symbol.

        Audi S3 sedan is another interesting option. Or the Merc CLA45 Shooting Brake? It's not really a wagon :)

        • mrs wants an S3 sedan. But the family shot her down and I was in agreement.

          Agree shooting brake looks fantastic. But will take some convincing. I am a fan of the new look mercs.

        • @ChickenTalon: hey if you are from non-English background and wanted to display songs in double byte characters (Chinese, Japanese, Korean), only Merc system supports it. Audi and VW sound systems couldn't. We tried, they don't work and give you jiberish. :)

  • IF you have someone you could trust who works at BMW, get the car from that person. Discount for brand new car is 18% off RRP, for Demo car (less than 10,000 km and 3-4 months old) is 28% off RRP.

    No need to pay ridiculous Dealer Delivery charges because you're cutting the middle man (dealers) and go straight to the importer. The only caveat is, the car has to be registered under that person who works at the company and can't be sold within a year.

    • thanks, I am looking into mates rates. I have a small connection to a BMW dealer, but not BMW itself.

      But I wouldn't be keen to do anything like that. no way i'm buying a car in another person's name. seems very risky.

  • Just follow this guy's way of buying any "new" car at a fraction of cost.

    https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/30716116/response-from-aubur…

  • +1

    My 5cent.

    Car:
    I got couple of friends who are mechanics and also car salesman and they all said that after the warranty expires on Euro models, the maintenance cost is steep and not worth the initial investment. I actually wanted to change from my RX350 2011 model to a Merc ML350/GLE350 but I might not go ahead with it. Even though its been 5 years, I still have the original Lexus battery and the guys who did the servicing said it still has a healthy charge!

    Buying:
    You need to know when is their month end or year end as that is the best time to get a deal. These guys are competitive and will mostly have some reward system at the end of the month/year. Merc seem to be calendar year end (dec) but rest I am not sure.

    Good luck.

    • +1

      Check out independent mechanics. Barring the models which have well known gremlins, most cars are fairly easy to maintain and aftermarket parts are plenty. The Merc SUVs are unfortunately one of those cars that are plagued with little problems (most European SUVs actually).

      I'd keep the RX350. :)

  • i think Merc has capped price servicing. Check with your dealer

    • only for the 1st 3 years unless you purchase their service plan

  • +2

    I've read the OP. I don't really understand the scenario. Who exactly is "the family". And why not get a deposit on an investment apartment and buy a second hand Subaru Outback for $20,000? Sure you may not want that car, but do you already have a primary residence paid off? Is this $80,000 the only money the family is giving you? Or is there also a sum being paid towards a house? Confused

    • +2

      Just read above that it's the in-laws.
      Everyone else seems to know exactly what you're talking about. I've never heard of anything like this.

      • +1

        Not going to argue that. It's a weird situation and does not make much sense. But culturally the car is very important to them, size and the badge mostly. Not something I understood initially. Hell, I cycle to work every day and for short trips, or walk if possible. Saves money, with great bonuses that it keeps me fit and I've made same amazing lifelong friends. When they found out they looked at me like I was some crazy freak.

        We have a car they want to "assign" to someone else and they want to buy us a replacement. It's just a car, so I don't really care. I pick my battles and hold firm on work choices, living and family planning. But the tight arse in me still wants to make a good decision and waste as little money as possible.

        this explains it further.
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/232804#comment-3436142

        • +1

          Thanks heaps for the explanation. That's really interesting. It makes so much sense when I think back to the events surrounding the purchase of cars for a number of my Asian friends. It just seemed unfamiliar at the time, but now I get it.
          So if you are/were from a different cultural background, does the family take that into account? Or because it's a gift, do they feel that it's appropriate to make most of the decisions on you and your partner's behalf?

      • +1

        It's fairly typical for wealthy asian descent families to contribute a significant amount to large purchases (generally around $70-100k).

        Simply a cultural thing, but don't think that it's the greatest thing ever as the asian parents will attempt make every decisions in life for you and your family.

        • Really interesting. Thanks

        • I know alot of asian families put their hard earn cash into land to financially protect future generations, to most of them "land is king" and drive beat up old school camry

    • Would be safe to assume that the money comes from the family, and this is where they say the money will be spent.

      Would also probably be safe to assume that the family has already helped with the cost of the home/investments etc…
      Some people have a lot of cash and putting money into Sydney's real estate market isn't their idea of fun.

  • +2

    Lot of jealousy in this thread.. Sure the OPs family seems pompous but can't wealthy people ask for advice?

    • +1

      I agree. I can afford a luxury, but I have no idea about cars, so I just go for Japanese.
      I quite like the new Lexus.

      If it was up to me, I would rather go by public transport and not have a car.

  • All these people defending the Merc being an old mans car lol. The new C-series is definition of the DNA design of an old mans car. The older DNA was more stylish.
    The car people believed to be an old persons car is now quite contemporary the new Jags have much more appeal in my opinions the xf is a nice classy full sized sedan and the xe is a great mid sized sedan. The value holds better than what they used to. However not as well as the Beemers and Mercs. The F pace is quite a nice small SUV

  • +1

    The word on Mercedes,apparently, is that they have reliability issues with new models, but gradually fix most of them over the life of the model, so buy generation 3 or 4 of a model. Reminds me of Microsoft.

    • I think that is the word on every product that was ever produced/released ever. The first generation always sucks and then gets better to a point. Then they start using cheaper parts to reduce costs.

    • Disagree. Merc is more reliable compared to BMW and AUDI. That's based on the automotive syndicate survey.

  • -4

    This is a common problem that many rich people have faced before. There are a few important considerations.
    1. It has to be a 4wd/suv. The bigger the better. You'll need it for driving the tough terrain of Sydney's north shore. And you don't want to look like a povo idiot in a sedan or hatchback.
    2. BMW, Merc etc. This has been well discussed in the posts so far.
    3. Last and perhaps most important is the colour. It has to be black. You don't want to look like some wimp driving a white car for example.

  • If I was going to buy a luxury car in the $100k range I would just get a Tesla and be done with it. The tech that goes into that car is simply amazing, and it ain't no slouch!

    • Would be nice. But they're a fair bit beyond 100k.

      • Damn, better start saving!

  • -2

    The new Audi A7 is coming out, would be worth a look.

    My advice would be to get a Merc GLC diesel or the new land rover discovery.

    And as far as warranty, I'd get a Swann Insurance warranty. They are the best in the industry. I know this because I used to work for them. Should cost you about 4 or 5k as a one off fee and best to get now because the price will rise each year if you don't.

    edit: that 5K warranty will extend the factory warranty for 3 years.

    • A7 is a very pretty thing. But won't work unfortunately.

      Swann insurance might be something to consider, but the car will probably be turned over before 5yrs.

  • Ok. For those that asked.

    The 4 series got poopoo-ed bassd on its size. Family says too small, we tried but they wouldn't have a bar of it.

    Anything Audi. We got knocked down because of its "common-ness" apparently they assemble shitloads of them in China and they're very common. I was starting to lean towards the SQ5 based on recommendations here, but I got smacked down too. The Audi badge won't fly.

    Porsche Macan diesel S. Out of the price range (basic list price is just a shell with nothing included) and has a big waiting list for the dealers I tried.

    • did you see the new Merc GLC?

  • +1

    Ended up with an X4 35d new, non demo.

    Spent hours on the negotiation, I think I did ok. Went in with a bunch of comparative Carsales listings for demonstrators and after a test drive of the 20d (they had no 35d) just told him what id pay if he wanted to do something today, initially low balled at 15% below list price and moved a tincy amount.

    Picked a high turnover dealership because to get a good deal, you need others to be getting a bad deal. Then the dealer can manage a reasonable average sale price. Go to a dealer in a "wealthy" high disposable income area. This was counter intuitive until I'd read the WP thread. Thanks for that!

    Kept telling them I had to shop around. Yadda yadda. Did a fake phone call saying I had my mrs telling me to keep shopping. Quite a few "I'll check with the manager" and then the manager actually came out in the end to beg. Took ages, but I wasn't moving. Kept listing comparative demo sales. Interesting they never rejected the offer, just kept asking for more. I knew I wouldn't be able to read much into what they were saying, but not saying no to me probably meant I was pretty close to their bottom, or already at/above it. so I just stuck to my offer.

    Might have helped that I was actually quite happy to walk, so I think it showed and they needed to come to the party.

    Could probably have done a smige better on a demo, but figured it was worth it for a car in plastic. Not thrashed around the yard etc

  • Volvo XC90 with all extras!

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