Buying a new car - HELP please!

cynvero on 14/08/2016 - 20:07

Hi guys,
We would need to buy a new car soon, as our loved Renault Scenic is getting old and costing us too much money in mechanics :(
Our search is around the following:

  • SUV or similar
  • 2013+
  • No more than 40.000 Km
  • Budget… preferably no more than $20K
  • No European brands (spare parts are so expensive!)

Our options seem to be Holden Captiva, Holden Trax or maybe some Hyundai ix35.

What do you think/recommend? Any other model which is worth to increase our budget a little bit?

Any help will be much appreciated! :)

Automotive

Comments

  • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 20:24
    +35

    No, not the Captiva or Trax, not when they're outside warranty!

    Source - Holden & Suzuki salesman here

    • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 20:25

      How many people you ferrying? Why an SUV as such? Why not a Camry or similar?

      • Kangal on 15/08/2016 - 09:16

        Maybe it's for dogs?
        If you wanna take dogs around, nothing beats having them stay in the boot of an SUV.

        The last-last-gen car's was a competition win for the X-Trail.
        The last-gen it looks like a toss up between the X-Trail and the CRV (and maybe RAV4).
        I have no idea about the current-gen SUV's.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xOGMQt7YOU

        • spackbace on 15/08/2016 - 09:17
          +1

          Maybe it's for dogs?
          If you wanna take dogs around, nothing beats having them stay in the boot of an SUV.

          Hence why I asked the OP… And they replied below already

        • Kangal on 15/08/2016 - 09:19
          +1

          @Spackbace:

          So he wants an SUV because of the kid's carseats, and maybe growing for some extra space… but mostly because he likes the shape? Alright, different strokes for different folks.

          As long as he doesn't get a Jeep.

    • ajs900 on 15/08/2016 - 19:01
      +5

      Often referred to as a "craptiva".

    • Wampus on 16/08/2016 - 10:27
      +1

      Might not be what the OP is after, but the Vitara is pretty good bang for buck?

      • spackbace on 16/08/2016 - 10:27

        Too expensive for OP's budget ($25k starting price)

  • cynvero on 14/08/2016 - 20:44

    Thanks for the advice! What the issues are with the Captiva?

    We are 4 (2 in kids seats). We need a good size boot.The Scenic has a very generous one, and also so many comfort features. We will miss all of them, I guess, but although we are so tempted for a Koleos, we must be far from Renault and other European brands. I thought Holden would be a good option.

    The reason for looking for a SUV is mere liking. I do not like car shapes, but could be considered.

    • LaScrooge on 14/08/2016 - 20:46
      +28

      Sorry to sass, but it would be quicker to list what aren't issues with the Captiva…

      • LaScrooge on 14/08/2016 - 20:48
        +5

        Also, as far as the Koleos is concerned, they are actually made in Korea by Renault Samsung and are based off of the Nissan XTrail. They share engines, underpinnings etc so you aren't buying a European car at all. I wouldn't discount it as plenty will be within your budget and they have a longer warranty than their Xtrail sibling.
        Other competitors that are Japanese i.e., Honda CR-V, Nissan X-Trail and Rav-4 will be significantly older and be outside your kilometre specification at that budget point.
        Another option which will be similar to your ix-35 suggestion but more spacious, and longer warranty (7 year), would be a late model Kia Sportage.
        If you want Japanese at that price point, you'll have to compromise on your requirements.

        Search Captiva problems for why you shouldn't buy a Captiva, or have a peruse through productreview.com.au for a list of problems that owners (regularly) report. Avoid any GM Korea car. They are crap.

        Cheers

        • cynvero on 14/08/2016 - 21:13

          So do you think the Koleos wont be so expensive to maintain ? (spare parts, labour,etc) ?
          our experience with the Renault Scenic II was not so good, as it is an excellent car but the spare parts are so expensive (I have been quoted fuel pump change AUD 2020, gearbox change AUD 6400)

        • LaScrooge on 14/08/2016 - 21:33
          +9

          @cynvero: Well it shouldn't be, as most of what can go wrong, is from Nissan. So the 2.5 engine in the Koleos is the same (I believe) as the XTrail, so any variance in price will come down to where you get it serviced and less so the parts. The gearbox in the petrol is also the same CVT as the XTrail. The only bits and pieces unique to the Koleos are basically the body work and interior etc.

          The shared platform between them is the Renault/Nissan C platform so the similarities are quite substantial between the two. The Scenic two was made before Nissan/Renault formed their alliance so it was fully European.

          This article talks a bit about the similarities in manufacturing (http://www.motoring.com.au/renault-koleos-6544/) although, as a review its outdated. There were three phases over the 8 years of production so it improved quite substantially till then.

          Although I don't have first hand experience with this car, as a reader of Aussiefrogs French Car Forum, owners seem to have had very few problems with them, and only complained that they're a bit too unFrench due to their XTrail relations.

          Renault and Nissan are now sharing engines and car platforms between Navara/Alaskan ute, Megane/Euro Pulsar (Not our model), Maxima/Latitude, Qashqai/Kadjar (sold outside Oz), and XTrail/Koleos. You'd presume reliability would be on par between.
          Cheers

        • cynvero on 15/08/2016 - 08:16

          @chino101: Really good to know! Many thanks!

        • lambsie on 15/08/2016 - 08:48
          +1

          @cynvero:

          Depends how you maintain your car. If you're willing to go out of your way to get parts from the wreckers, it's not too bad. Often mechanics will overquote you as well with a French car, but for the most part, they aren't too dissimilar or complicated. You mainly get hit on the major surgery like belts and water pumps, but even then, there a few specialists that get it done at a reasonable price (e.g timing and accessory belts + water pump for $1300).

          If you're concerned about servicing, find a good local, preferably by word of mouth.

          And as other have said, the Koleos isn't exactly French. A new one is coming out soon as well which looks impressive, though completely out of the price range.

          I miss my French car!

    • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 20:48
      +2

      Those are 2 of Holden's unreliable and underwhelming options.
      For the amount of space, economy and value for money, something like a Camry would be a far better option.

      The SUVs in your budget will either be:
      A) smaller, at least in terms of cargo space
      B) thirsty - you'd be surprised how many of the 2.4L cars average 10L/100km in the real world

  • chumlee on 14/08/2016 - 20:48
    +16

    It's commonly known as Craptiva for a reason

  • Matt P on 14/08/2016 - 21:33
    +11

    Buy the hyundai

    Not as refined as some in the market, but it will go forever

    • kimmylala on 15/08/2016 - 08:41
      +2

      I have an i30 and love it. Value for money is good and oddly enough the market value is holding well (based on glasses guide)

      • Matt P on 15/08/2016 - 19:41

        Yeah the days of Hyundai's being a depreciation sink are behind them (excluding sonata and equus or whatever they call it here)

    • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 23:06

      Hyundai is nice but very slow. I think they probably all are though.

      • Matt P on 16/08/2016 - 19:33

        All the cars the OP listed are slow as. A vast majority of family haulers are.

  • dandandan on 14/08/2016 - 21:36
    +6

    A 2013 Kia Sportage will still have 2 years warranty on it.

  • Daabido on 14/08/2016 - 22:47
    -1

    FOG - standard Whirlpool response for any question recommending car models.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2016 - 23:05
    +2

    Spare parts might be more expensive on some European cars (but this is not always the case). You will find however they have longer service intervals, so overall running costs may well be cheaper on a second hand car.

    As a word of advice, do not get a front wheel drive SUV. Aside from the obvious poser cachet they embody, they are fundamentally unsafe just when you need them to be safe. The higher centre of gravity, coupled with a chassis designed to be all wheel drive from the outset, stripped down to front wheel drives, means that on the envelope of road holding, they are prone to terrible and uncontrollable understeer. (This applies to any car that was designed as an AWD then given a base FWD model, but accentuated by the higher COG).

    A VW Tiguan might be worth considering. It meets your criteria, (I have one, and it is reliable and cheap to run). I would avoid the dual clutch to avoid a potential expensive fix (but with the 6 speed that is very unlikely), they did make a model called the Pacific for a while, which had a regular torque converter auto. It's also one of the only cars in your price range that meets your criteria and has a 5 star NCAP.

    • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 23:11
      +8

      Buying a Volkswagen out of warranty…?

      Have you taken your pills today? :P

      • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2016 - 23:22
        +3

        Yeah, base your entire opinion on a brand, based off the reputation of the dry clutch 7 speed DSG.

        The fact of the matter is, Volkswagens in general are reliable and well made cars. My Tiguan has been flawless, its not a great car, but nothing is at this price range. It certainly gets the job done. It is reasonably powerful, well built, safe and cheap to run. My sister has a Mk6 1.4TSI Golf. It's gearbox had the dreaded mechatronic problem (it is the 7 speed DSG). VW fixed it at no cost. They are also very helpful with out of warranty repairs. My sister had a VW Passat 1.8T handed down to her as her first car. When it was 5 or 6 years old, the engine had some kind of failure. VW replaced the engine out of warranty at no cost. I used to have a MKV GTI from new, with the 6 speed DSG. Perfectly reliable, zero problems. My mother had a Passat diesel wagon for a time with DSG. It was not a great car, but it was fine for a cheap wagon. Perfectly reliable. I'm willing to bet you have never owned a VW Spackbace.

        • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 23:26
          -6

          I'm willing to bet you have never owned a VW Spackbace.

          Nope I haven't. I have however seen how they get traded in, or get appraised. And it's not just VW, it's most Euro brands.

          So while I haven't owned a VW to form my opinion, I have seen more examples than your family has driven.

          So take your biased view elsewhere, and realise others are entitled to their own.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2016 - 23:32
          +8

          @Spackbace:

          So other's are entitled to their own opinions, but apparently I'm not?

          There is not need to be aggressive, your shitty opinions count too.

        • spackbace on 14/08/2016 - 23:41
          +9

          @thorton82:

          Buying a VW out of warranty is like buying a Captiva out of warranty, and neither option is 1 I'd recommend to a family member, so why should I recommend it here?

          Regardless of whether a company fixes major issues under warranty, the fact is that they shouldn't be having major issues like that! I'm sure you're aware of how long a car needs to be in the workshop for an engine or transmission fix yeah? Not to mention the day that engine or gearbox first breaks, and the stuff around to deal with it at the time. Then the weeks without a car, or at least till the manufacturer agrees to cover a loan car.

          But that's all fine because the manufacturer is fixing it? No, it's not fine, it's a major pain in the ass!

          Plus, what advantage is there to owning an entry-level euro car? There's never more features than the equivalent Jap car. Won't have more safety features. Some can offer a better drive (looking at BMW etc). So what do they offer besides the badge?
          The higher grades I can understand, their feature lists and fit and finish are exceptional. But a base model?!

        • [Deactivated] on 14/08/2016 - 23:50
          +3

          @Spackbace:

          Sorry Spacebace, but all cars have issues, and at some point something will break on a car, no matter if its a Rolls Royce or a Hyundai. My sister's Passat failed because she was putting regular unleaded into it instead of premium and it coked up the engine. Her fault. VW paid out of warranty. That matters.

          VW have a much nicer fit and finish when compared to most Asian cars, and their technology is miles ahead. They have better real world fuel economy, more powerful engines, better gearboxes etc. If you think a VW is any different from an Audi, you are very wrong, and most people would consider most Audis as 'higher grade'. They share chassis, engines, switch gear, gearboxes, infotainment. They only thing they don't share is a badge.

          As I said before, European cars offer much bigger service intervals than Japanese cars (generally a once a year service vs. every 6 months), and better fuel economy. Running costs on an out of warranty VW and Toyota are directly compatible, but the VW will be faster, better on fuel, nicer to drive, safer and in general a better car.

        • Speckled Jim on 15/08/2016 - 10:08
          +3

          Sorry to butt in…

          What's the point of consistently fine shut-lines or an immaculate interior when there's engine or transmission gremlins?

          Is it to console oneself in a degree of faux, mass-produced "luxury" as they sit in quiet contemplation awaiting the tow truck?

          While the tightarse in the Tucson drives past?

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 11:05

          @USB-V:

          I think you'll find that every luxury car is mass produced. Even the $1million + Rollers share a chassis with a $100k 5 series GT.

          The car I mentioned has no reliability issues, but you, like space back are painting all VW with the same brush, based off the idea that the 7speed DSG gearbox is less reliable than it should be. A gearbox that isn't in the suggested car.

        • Tech and cars on 15/08/2016 - 13:26

          @Spackbace: So while I haven't owned a VW to form my opinion, I have seen more examples than your family has driven.

          Have you driven one?

        • spackbace on 15/08/2016 - 13:32

          @khonfahm:

          Yep, more than 1. Again, I've seen them traded, valued, and bought in.

        • Tech and cars on 15/08/2016 - 14:08

          @Spackbace: Didn't you notice a night and day difference between them vs competitors (rav4 etc)?

          I would think Small turbo + good gearbox = much better car to drive than an NA motor + average gearbox.

          I've had very good experiences with my A3's in the passed, had a couple that are manual, some that are auto (7 & 6 speed "DSG"/S-tronic).

          I've seen you post a lot of times about your suzuki swift vitara 1.5 Turbo(saying what a great car it is) - and I thought you would be all for VW's because they have a similar philosophy ( Small engine + turbo).

        • spackbace on 15/08/2016 - 14:15
          +3

          @khonfahm:

          It's about more than 1 aspect though. Sure a small engine + turbo car will have good fuel economy (well, should), but fuel economy isn't the be all and end all. If the car is gonna cost more to maintain over the long-term, or there's doubts about reliability, all of a sudden an extra few $s/week on fuel don't make much difference.

          Case in point, when the Mrs needed a car to ferry around our kids (2 under 4yo, back then we had 2yo and 1 on the way), we looked around. She's short so liked the idea of an SUV. Settled on a Territory. Reasons:
          1) I got it at trade price (big plus to the decision!)
          2) 6-Speed auto & 4.0L I6 are known to be practically bulletproof
          3) Room across the back row for 3 child seats, or 2 plus an adult
          Now I knew when we got that car that it would be thirsty, and it is (averages 15L/100km on her short distance driving), but I knew the car shouldn't give me many issues. And it basically hasn't.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 15:33
          -5

          @Spackbace: lol at a car salesman recommending a Territory. Killed any credibility with that decision.

        • spackbace on 15/08/2016 - 15:36
          +2

          @thorton82:

          AWD so issues with suspension parts & it's thirsty

          However

          As I said, the 6-speed and I6 and considered bulletproof, good luck finding many Terry's that died due to engine/gearbox issues

          Back seat is larger than most SUVs, allowing 3 car seats to fit without hassle (compare that to Captiva/Pajero/Kluger/Prado etc etc, I could go on)

          Insurance cheap, services cheap, parts cheap.

          So, please tell me, in your infinite wisdom, how it's such a bad choice besides my first points?

        • Speckled Jim on 15/08/2016 - 18:17

          @thorton82:
          Nah, it shows a lack of engineering depth from the biggest automotive conglomerate in the world.

          They do themselves no favours with shoddy trannies or broken pistons in any of their current or recent models. It doesn't reassure anyone, even someone like the OP with their 20K budget.

          VAGs are a world of pain, ruinously expensive to maintain and repair. Denial is fine until you're stung.

        • Matt P on 15/08/2016 - 19:52
          +1

          @Spackbace: Do territorys do head gaskets as often as falcons? As a fleet manager (SG) the only cars i've ever seen need a HG under management are falcons.

          Mind you, they're OK otherwise. A territory past 100k is going to need a fair bit spent on suspension.

          All cars will need money spent on them. I love my VW's. I'm an enthusiast and can solve most little issues and know the cars that are likely to go bang. Would i buy a 1.4 twin charge 118tsi 7spd dsg? Not on your life. Would i buy a GTI out of warranty. Yes, all day long.

        • robertbruce on 15/08/2016 - 20:01

          @Matt P: let me ask what was failing for them to go the HG's?

        • Matt P on 15/08/2016 - 20:52

          @robertbruce: fleet drivers aren't good at reporting faults. "i was driving it and the temperature needle went up to the maximum and after a while it stopped"

        • robertbruce on 15/08/2016 - 20:59

          @Matt P: no worries

        • jackary on 16/08/2016 - 13:15

          @USB-V: As an ex-owner of a complete lemon of a brand spanking MK6 golf, you sir win first prize!

        • Matt P on 16/08/2016 - 19:32

          @jackary: Sadly noone knew the 118s were going to be troublesome in the early days.

        • Speckled Jim on 16/08/2016 - 19:46

          @Spackbace:
          Dang I forgot about the Terry. While a diesel would likely be over OPs budget, I've seen LPG Ghias for around 15K recently.
          Meets the space requirement.

        • Speckled Jim on 16/08/2016 - 20:09
          +1

          @thorton82:

          I think you'll find that every luxury car is mass produced. Even the $1million + Rollers share a chassis with a $100k 5 series GT.

          I already replied to the second bit.
          For the sake of argument, I'll drop this truth-bomb on ya and be done:
          3.8l Mclarens (approx 12 models) aren't mass-produced.
          Neither are Bolwells, Arials, Morgans and dozens of others that I CBA confirming right now :)

        • [Deactivated] on 16/08/2016 - 21:42

          @USB-V: And here is a truth bomb for you. A Mclaren isn't a luxury car. Its a supercar. And they have made thousands of them. By definition they are mass produced. Literally every car you mentioned is not a luxury car. Also I drove a Mclaren 12C when it first came out. It was a really good car, but it wasn't luxurious. I drove it in anger on an airfield in England. It was fast. But those brakes! OMG. They knock the shit out of you.

        • Speckled Jim on 17/08/2016 - 09:59

          @thorton82:
          It's the 21st century; it is no longer acceptable for a supercar to be so narrowly performance focused, impractical, spartan and uncomfortable. And so, a luxury car has many faces: "supercar", "SUV", "coupe" or "sedan".

          Aside from which, the Gov will help themselves to Luxury Car Tax should you get too aspirational. They don't care how many driven wheels it has, where the engine is mounted or how much of a woody it gives you. It's value-based.

          Luxury: Something that is not essential but provides pleasure and comfort

          So by definition, even the baby Mc540C is a luxury car. So too is the Audi R8, Bentley Bentayga, Merc C63 etc. It's not just about deep-pile carpets, acres of leather, wood veneers and brollies in the doors.
          That's last century thinking. Get with the times man!

          And just because a car moves down a line, doesn't mean that line is rushed like the everyday dross. Ferraris receive much personal attention. Even the Ford Mustang line is a relatively slow one. So too the Corvette and Viper lines (I've seen MegaFactories). The 12C has been around for five years, so I'd hope there's "thousands" of them, but remain unconvinced of that.
          But I hope you're proven right eventually, as greater numbers produced means I stand a chance of owning one some day.

          Major jelly you drove that 12C.

        • cynvero on 17/08/2016 - 11:06

          @USB-V: Sometimes is not that it goes down often, but when it does it costs much more than others. In the meantime you can enjoy a lot of features that others don't have.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2016 - 17:56
          -2

          @USB-V: Mate by no definition is a McLaren a luxury car. A luxury car is a class of car like a 7 series or S class. A McLaren is a supercar. You can argue semantics till the cows come home, but you are wrong.

          McLaren produced 1600 cars in 2014 and 1600 cars in 2015. They are by definition mass produced.

        • Speckled Jim on 17/08/2016 - 19:32
          +1

          @thorton82:

          Sorry mate, you're wrong on both counts. It's okay — your pride won't let you admit it.
          I'll break it down for you in order to cushion the blow.

          1600 cars per year = a low volume automobile manufacturer.
          European Small Volume Car Manufacturers Alliance
          Small volume manufacturers are those that manufacture fewer than 10 000 new cars (registered in the EU) per annum.

          The 2015 UK SMMT report has graphs and top 5 stats, and McLaren appears once in the whole report, on page 13. It's a map showing UK manufacturers.

          1600 cars per annum isn't even a blip on the radar when you consider a car rolls off the line every three minutes in true mass-production.

          Mclaren remains a quaint throwback to older times, employing a great deal of personal attention to each car: "THERE ARE NO CONVEYORS OR ROBOTS. IT’S CLEAN, SPACIOUS, CALM AND QUALITY-ORIENTED.”.

          They're currently at six and a half 12Cs a day, but that's steadily ramping up. By the middle of the decade, the plan is to build 4000 cars a year

          So, by EU and UK industry definitions in addition to my own, McLaren are still a low-volume automotive producer.

          As for "Luxury", you're on your own there. The definition I posted is a commonly accepted one, and it was from a dictionary website. If you're so sure it applies to a narrow band of three-box sedans and convertibles (not R8?), start an online petition to lobby the government — the Luxury Car Tax is levied on all the examples I gave this morning.

        • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2016 - 20:09
          -2

          @USB-V: you are delusional. A sports car is a different class from a luxury car. Luxury car tax has nothing to do with the car. A Base mode Landcruiser 70 series attracts significant luxury car tax and it is by no means a luxury car. But I'm done arguing and wasting my time on this bullshit, if you want to live in a world of make believe, be my guest.

        • Speckled Jim on 17/08/2016 - 21:03
          -2

          @thorton82:
          Let's take your example of a Landcruiser.
          If there are cheaper, more basic solutions to the same problem, it's considered a luxury car. This is because it falls into a discretionary spending decision of the consumer. Why it's more expensive in the first place is a mystery to me, and not relevant to the discussion.

          I'd say a better definition of luxury SUV is a Range Rover or Bentayga. But they're several orders higher up the luxury food chain.

          Would be amusing to read your definition of a luxury vehicle, but I see you're tired and cranky.
          Never mind.

        • paaj on 22/08/2016 - 17:46

          @thorton82: true, our 2008 Lancer has been recalled twice already.

      • HereOnDailyBasis on 15/08/2016 - 10:19
        +3

        I agree with @thorton82 on Tiguan. we recently bought a 2013 Tiguan 132N Pacific 13.5MY(under 40K KM) and I can say that it is a really good compact suv. It has decent power and having turbo is useful. we considered rav4, mitsi asx, forester but pulled the plug on Tiguan and it turned out to be a good choice.

        • KBZ on 16/08/2016 - 09:20

          Don't want to be pedantic but it's 'pulled the trigger on' not 'plug on', they're polar opposites.

        • HereOnDailyBasis on 16/08/2016 - 13:16
          +1

          @KBZ: yup, you are right, it should have been 'pulled the trigger' my bad :)

        • KBZ on 16/08/2016 - 16:35

          @HereOnDailyBasis:

          All good :)

    • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2016 - 18:22

      The higher end tiguan is great.

      I drove a stock petrol turbocharged 2.0 tiguan early last year (previous gen model), thought it was average, but not bad.

      Drove the same car a few months back. Fully decked out for rallying (with a good 20-30k off road driving clocked in since) . The stock gearbox held its own and the fit out didn't rattle in the slightest. Not many chassis and gearboxes can do that.

      In fact, a lot of cars these days rattle right off the factory floor.

  • robertbruce on 15/08/2016 - 07:49
    +1

    The Scenic is great with a good driving position and great vision, something that is hard to find on other models…

    I would have a chat to your local renault dealer about your servicing options. Make him feel the loss of your custom and then ask him if there is anything he can do about it…

    • cynvero on 15/08/2016 - 08:29
      +2

      Yes, the Scenic is great! It has many, many features you don't even know you will need, but you look for them in the next car. The main issue is having often breakdowns and every time it costs a fortune. In July we did the service in Kmart Auto and spent near 1K. Two days after that, the gearbox started giving error messages. We took them to Kmart again (because we believed that was something related with their work, and certainly it was) and they recommended us to change the gearbox! Another 6500!! Luckily, we didn't and it solved by itself. 10 days ago, after being parked at home normally in the morning, it decided not to start again. After many NRMA people trying, the battery gone flat, hence nothing worked again as everything is electronic.That means, no hand break, no windows, no boot open, nothing. Has to be tow to our closest Renault service centre where it is since then. They quoted us $2020 for the fuel pump to be fixed plus $150 just for quoting. And they are still waiting for the spare parts, which means maybe we will have the car again by the weekend. More than 2 weeks after the last breakdown.
      Lucky us my son loves to use public transport… and the weather has been nice during the last 10 days :)
      We still love our Scenic! :S

      • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 09:18
        +1

        I do feel that you two are really misusing the word 'great'.

        • cynvero on 15/08/2016 - 09:32

          Yes, maybe… It could be a language mistake in my case. Anyway, I love the Scenic even with all her issues :)

        • robertbruce on 15/08/2016 - 11:05
          +1

          on my previous post there was no great pun intended…

          It would be unfair of me to blame Kmart auto but i would not imagine they get a lot of scenics in there thus they are probably not the best ones for servicing such a vehicle… My neibour put hi lite-ace in there for a head-gasket and that little van is still using 16L/100K's so Kmart mechanical is a bit hit and miss asaiac ..

          The first model scenics did have a issue with the gear box's at around 140K's. AFAIK It is almost the same issue as early pajero with a clip failing on the box's cluster shaft and it spitting the cogs…but i think your scenic is a series 2.

          If you amortised the recent costs of repairs over the term of your ownership, would that make the current experience more palatable?…

          If you scoured the internet and found some ancedote or evidence of design improvement over the previous models, would that make owning another one more palatable?…

          Cars are always going to cost you upfront and/or along the way. IMHO it is better to pay for something that you actually enjoy, rather than just employ…

        • Mad Max on 15/08/2016 - 13:32

          @robertbruce:
          KTAS are absolutely hopeless.
          They cannot even do a proper wheel alignment, let alone any other mechanical work.
          The only thing going for them is that sometimes they have good prices on tyres.
          I would not even trust them for an oil and filter change…

        • robertbruce on 15/08/2016 - 14:13
          -3

          @maxi: some automotive workshops, they are not allowed to do a proper wheel allignments, ie, they can adjust a tie-rod but they are not allowed to replace it…so if its bent or worn-out (which happens a lot to tierods) you'll be back 2 months later with a bald patch on one side of your new tyre…

        • cynvero on 17/08/2016 - 11:12

          @robertbruce: Agree. Maybe it is not that it has issues so often. The thing is when it has one, it costs a lot in spare parts. But the features it has, even being a 2007 now, could not be find in any of the other brands, talking about a reasonable similar budget. That's why we are tempted to another Renault now.

        • robertbruce on 17/08/2016 - 21:54
          +1

          @cynvero: These days I would buy as low as kilometers as I could, with as much new car warranty that i could…perhaps a Koleos?

  • MentalJewellery on 15/08/2016 - 08:46
    +3

    Dare I say it but I recently purchased a new for me (Read second hand) Ford Territory. Ex fleet vehicle through the auctions. Complete service history, well maintained, I counted 6 stone chips, no underbody damage and could not even see any proof it had been more than a Toorak tractor. 2011 model, 7 seater, 61000kms, purchased a 5 year warranty that covers up to $3000 across any failures and/or damage to motor, drive train and electrics. On the road, insured with warranty, new tyres and 8 months rego for $19300. Look at either Manheim fowels or pickles auction group. May take a few weeks but better to save a few thousand dollars on something well maintained under a lease agreement than to risk the minefield of the used car lots.

    • [Deactivated] on 15/08/2016 - 09:18
      +2

      You won't find any Territories in Toorak mate.

      • MentalJewellery on 15/08/2016 - 12:34

        Yes I know, was purely an example. I think the most dirt it has seen was from a pothole.

      • goingDHfast on 16/08/2016 - 15:35
        +1

        The Territory is more like a Franger Shaggin' Wagon.

  • Bnjam3 on 15/08/2016 - 09:06
    -4

    HSV Maloo

  • pitiek on 15/08/2016 - 10:39
    +4

    Liberty or Outback wagon will be my choice…

  • BestofOZB on 15/08/2016 - 12:02
    +4

    I would go ix35 or a Kia around 3 year old…NOT a Craptiva please as people said.

  • Rhianna7 on 15/08/2016 - 13:43
    +1

    I don't have advice about the brand, but I bought my Nissan car from this place and got a good deal. Good luck! http://www.manheim.com.au/

  • tinx on 15/08/2016 - 14:31
    +1

    What about mazda cx 5, made in japan.

    We tried kia sportage, hyundai tucson, nissan xtrail as well and like mazda the best.

  • opilot87 on 15/08/2016 - 14:35
    +1

    Consider a 1 year old Honda HRV. Small car but has very good boots pace and practicality, will be near new and should be very reliable and plenty of warranty, cheap to run. Might have to stretch to low 20's though

  • Cluster on 15/08/2016 - 14:45
    +2

    KIA or Hyundai soft SUVs would be my choice. KIA must be doing something right to offer a 7 year warranty, and KIA/Hyundai are essentially joined at the hip. My i30 diesel has "KIA Hyundai" parts all over the engine bay, and the 1.6L diesel engine is built in Slovakia by KIA.

    I have been through the expensive European repair/parts experience myself. Some parts had to be imported from Singapore, others shipped from Germany. That adds delays and extra costs.

    Renault makes some very nice cars but it's very much a niche brand in Australia.

  • PVA on 15/08/2016 - 15:42
    +1

    x-trail. you will get a good 2013 model for that money.

  • chriskq on 15/08/2016 - 16:51

    Jeep Hellcat/Trackhawk….. oh 20k nvrmnd >_<

  • Meowcat on 15/08/2016 - 17:37

    Crewcab van? Hyunda iload, renault trafic should have a model by the end of the year

  • AlexD on 15/08/2016 - 18:13
    +1

    You could always jump down a size and look at the Subaru Outback. Looks and handles more like a wagon. Alternatively, the Skoda Octavia Scout wagon is an AWD, using a VW chassis, and depreciates really quickly due to lack of brand recognition. You can get a lot of features very cheaply…

  • alucard147 on 15/08/2016 - 19:23
    +3

    as a person working with over 50 mechanic shops.
    my advice for you is never get a Holden CAPTIVA
    only car really worth buying alone holden, is old holden commendor, HSV and Colorado(nissan patrol if im not wrong, they share something…)
    any Holden end with a letter A as Astr"A" Vectr"A" and captiv"A", are rebranded junk box…famous junk…
    IX35 would be a good choice, reliable and economic. if you buying from a reliable dealer, IX35 will last you for many years.
    there are also other recommended cars such as Mazda CX5, could be more expensive but more reliable and drives good.
    or GreatWall SUV, their build quality is solid, and it might come at even a bit lower price. not expensive to run.
    honda CRV is always a good choice but nowadays they didn't improve much, you will get old spec tech and power train…but still drives fantastic.

    but if you want 2013+ and less than 20K
    that kills lots of option
    i would say try to look for a greatwall SUV they loaded with tech and seems improved reliability these days, Ix35 will be very few of them match the 2013 and under 20K because they are really hold the value( no offensive to anyone here but kindly remind you do not step into personal seller trap for cheap price, sometimes you will seriously regret what you have done..) Mazda CX 5 and Honda CRV are not cheap cars….unless you willing to pay more otherwise i don't see any chance here. CRV parts are not cheap as well.

    • Euphemistic on 16/08/2016 - 10:35
      +1

      Not sure if you should trust someone who spouts to being a mechanic, but is not aware that the Holden Colorado is a sister to the ISUZU D-MAX. Holden haven't had anything to do with Nissan in about 20 years AFAIK.

      • spackbace on 16/08/2016 - 10:35

        Was kinda thinking that… :/

        • Euphemistic on 16/08/2016 - 10:37
          +6

          ..and recommending a Great Wall? Not sure about that either, they don't have a good name for reliability.

        • spackbace on 16/08/2016 - 10:38

          @Euphemistic:

          Yep, good reason why they've gone belly up in Australia

        • Euphemistic on 16/08/2016 - 10:39

          @Spackbace: even better reason to avoid Great Wall, no further manufacturer support.

        • alucard147 on 16/08/2016 - 12:31
          +1

          @Euphemistic: but if buyer looking at 2013+ under 40K kilometers and under 20K…
          greatwall is one of option. they are not bad, sharing most of parts with Subaru….
          further manufacturer support are pure depends where you buy them, from a greatwall dealer sometimes can get you a 3000 dollar for 3 or 5years extra warranty if you are buying them relevantly "New"…..
          my friend bought a Hyundai IX35 2013 17K dollar and 120K, pay extra 1500 dollar got a 10 years unlimited kilometers warranty ….in his words "i have to drive this car to dead……"

          to be honest kilometer is not a big problem for car these days. 40K and 80K they could be same condition.

        • Euphemistic on 16/08/2016 - 13:20
          +2

          @alucard147: not much point having a long warranty if the people you need to talk to have closed their business though. Interesting about sharing parts with Subaru, I've never heard that. But have read that the engine is an outdated Mitsubishi engine, and the 4wd is not symmetrical AWD like Subaru, so that doesn't leave a lot of Subaru parts that you need for reliability.

        • alucard147 on 17/08/2016 - 18:19

          @Euphemistic:
          that greatwall manufacture used to make parts for Subaru and assembling their cars， kind of learning all experiences just like 40 to 18years ago mazda and ford's relationship.
          but of course these days people get smart, not going to let china make complete copied cars, so they use an old engine and transmission, but do improved some reliability. consider if they really learned something while they work for somebody else.
          anyway it's cheap. fuel economy will not be as good as these days new tech cars like mazda sky active or toyota hybird.
          well anyway Mitsubishi didn't improve much over 14 years….consider that new ASX and Lancer still using their 10 years old power train, they not much different. but reliable and everybody knows how to fix…..makes the maintenance goes easy.

      • alucard147 on 16/08/2016 - 12:23

        yes yes~~isuzu damn my mistake….i only remember that colorado is one of reliable japanese 4WD….but not toyota or mazda or honda…my mistake…

        • spackbace on 16/08/2016 - 12:40

          Again, Colorado ain't Japanese… No Holden is Japanese!

        • alucard147 on 17/08/2016 - 18:32

          @Spackbace: don't want hurt your feelings but this is where Colorado comes from…different metal box, same D-Max soul…
          but anyway Japanese car is still 100 times better then other holden imported rebadged crap European Opel,Vauxhall shiit boxes.
          and korea bankrupted fail company…..Daewoo cars, i mean holden cruze….yes…they are just south korean Daewoo..dead like 20years ago? but now design cars for holden….sad story.

          Australia[edit]

          2007 Holden Rodeo
          In Australia and New Zealand, the D-Max was sold as the third generation Holden Rodeo (RA) between 2003 and 2008, before being facelifted into the form of the Holden Colorado. This was a result of the GM-Isuzu split resulting in GM losing the right to use the "Rodeo" name.[6] As with Rodeo, Colorado is available as either two- or four-wheel drive and in a range of body styles including single cab, space cab and crew cab. Power is provided by a range of petrol and diesel engines.[7] Of the petrol engines, Holden offers a 2.4 litre four-cylinder as well as the Australian-made 3.6 litre Alloytec engine. The diesel powerplant is a four-cylinder Isuzu 4JJ1 unit displacing 3.0 litres. The main difference between the Colorado and the Rodeo is the revised body work from the A-pillar forward.

          2008–2009 Holden RC Colorado DX 2-door cab chassis (Australia)

          2011 Holden RC Colorado LX-R 4WD Crew Cab 4-door utility (Australia)
          During October 2008, the Isuzu D-Max was launched in Australia, alongside the almost identical Holden Colorado.[8] Officially available in Australia as its own brand under the marketing name Isuzu Ute Australia, separate to the medium-heavy truck parent, Isuzu Australia.[9]

          In June 2012, the RC series Holden Colorado was replaced by the RG model based on the second-generation D-Max body….

          here is HOLDEN CRUZE
          The Cruze was actually released earlier in 2008 to the South Korean market under the name Daewoo Lacetti Premiere until the phasing out of the Daewoo brand in favor of Chevrolet in 2011. In Australasia, the model has been on sale since 2009 as the Holden Cruze. This new generation Cruze does not serve as a replacement for its Suzuki-derived predecessor. Instead, it replaces two other compact models: the Daewoo Lacetti sold internationally under various titles

        • spackbace on 17/08/2016 - 18:37

          @alucard147:

          Cruze - Korean
          Colorado - Thai
          Isuzu D-Max - Thai

          At no point is Japan involved in these cars!

          Trust me, my bubble isn't burst here!

          Holden hasn't had anything to do with Japan for years!

        • alucard147 on 18/08/2016 - 19:23

          @Spackbace:
          Australia[edit]

          2007 Holden Rodeo
          In Australia and New Zealand, the D-Max was sold as the third generation Holden Rodeo (RA) between 2003 and 2008, before being facelifted into the form of the Holden Colorado. This was a result of the GM-Isuzu split resulting in GM losing the right to use the "Rodeo" name.[6] As with Rodeo, Colorado is available as either two- or four-wheel drive and in a range of body styles including single cab, space cab and crew cab. Power is provided by a range of petrol and diesel engines.[7] Of the petrol engines, Holden offers a 2.4 litre four-cylinder as well as the Australian-made 3.6 litre Alloytec engine. The diesel powerplant is a four-cylinder Isuzu 4JJ1 unit displacing 3.0 litres. The main difference between the Colorado and the Rodeo is the revised body work from the A-pillar forward.

          During October 2008, the Isuzu D-Max was launched in Australia, alongside the almost identical Holden Colorado.[8] Officially available in Australia as its own brand under the marketing name Isuzu Ute Australia, separate to the medium-heavy truck parent, Isuzu Australia.[9]

          In June 2012, the RC series Holden Colorado was replaced by the RG model based on the second-generation D-Max body.[10]

          Sorry to hurts your feeling again….Colorado…almost just a re metal boxed D-MAX, pure Japanese designed car, which makes Colorado remains reliable.

        • spackbace on 18/08/2016 - 19:24

          @alucard147:

          Are you actually aware of where those 2 vehicles are made…? Thailand

          which makes Colorado remains reliable.

          Because it's apparently 'designed' in Japan…?

          But made in Thailand. With a GM engine (that's right, the 2012 onwards Colorado gets a GM engine, not Isuzu - the 2.8TD is pure GM)

          No, the Colorado isn't a reliable, Japanese vehicle.

          Oh, and if I wanted to read Wikipedia, I'd read Wikipedia. I really wish you wouldn't just keep quoting meaningless articles. Those articles (as you've quoted), barely even refer to the new Colorado (2012 onwards), so pulling up info relating to the old Rodeo is just meaningless and plain stupid!

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