Saying Goodbye to PayPal

Lord Fart Bucket on 12/09/2016 - 17:19

My wife owns a shop on etsy: She sells digital artwork. Keyword here is digital.
She makes decent money of it, and last month someone that has purchased several items before lodged a non-receipt. So, i respond (on her behalf) to paypal with a link of the item (highlighting it states that "No physical item will be shipped"), screenshots of the etsy system saying it's been downloaded (including the date and time that the files were downloaded.

Separate to this, my wife contacts the buyer via etsy to ask if there's any issues, etc. No response.

I wait and today i get an email from paypal stating they have judged in favour of the buyer. So, money gone. It wasn't a huge amount, but that's not the issue.
I ring payhell and was told that: They want to see server logs including IP addresses and times. I told them this isn't possible, and besides the point, i surf with a VPN, so it isn't of much use anyway. And who's going to request the logs from the buyers ISP to compare IP's?

I ask for a copy of the communication from the buyer, to which payhell responds with "get a court order".

So, i have spent the last 15 minutes changing the payment methods of her shop to etsy system (might this be a reason that paypal is getting the shits with etsy???) and have emptied out my paypal account.

Lesson learnt today: paypal doesn't give a crap about their business customers. Think twice before dealing with them.
/end rant.

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Comments

  • scrimshaw on 12/09/2016 - 17:27

    Amazon Payments?

    https://payments.amazon.com/merchant

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 12/09/2016 - 17:31

      No, using etsy payments for the moment. Looks to be working well for the second shop she has.

  • jackofspade on 12/09/2016 - 17:39
    +3

    Lodge a complaint with www.fos.org.au
    Many people have had success.

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 12/09/2016 - 17:55

      Thanks for that, hadn't considered them. Complaint lodged!

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 28/09/2016 - 12:17

      Took a little bit of time, but the money has been refunded. No such thing as an apology. But their apologies are worthless anyway.

  • StewBalls on 12/09/2016 - 19:24

    What about Visa Checkout…are they any better?

    • the-mal on 12/09/2016 - 20:54
      +1

      Much better, but nowhere near as much brand recognition considering the amount of generic payment gateways that use the Visa logo (everyone knows Visa, not very many will know precisely what Visa Checkout is). The "issue" with Paypal is they have massive brand recognition and a long history of always siding with the buyer…so they're hard to compete with on that level.

  • the-mal on 12/09/2016 - 19:36
    +2

    Paypal treats buyers better than sellers. It's an economics thing - Paypal needs many times more buyers than sellers. Reputation-wise they're better off creating a demand on the buyer-side which almost forces sellers to offer Paypal as an option.

    Your economic decision as a seller shouldn't be "Will Paypal be fair to me?". Because the answer will always be "No". The question should be "Will the amount of income Paypal brings me via it's buyer-base be enough to outweigh the negatives (eg loss to dodgy buyers)?".

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 12/09/2016 - 19:57

      Don't disagree with you on most things. I think most of the financial industry operates with little regard fairness, etc.
      But if i can avoid paypal, i will. So, they have lost a someone that made them a little money, i'll use etsy direct checkout, more functionality.

      • the-mal on 12/09/2016 - 20:50

        But if i can avoid paypal, i will

        Totally agree with you, and I do like the plague (in the occasions I've needed a payment system as a seller). And considering you've got the potential of direct checkout via Etsy it sounds like the right decision. But for some sellers it's worth putting up with their BS solely to get the extra buyers it brings (if you run a small online business without the clout of a platform like Etsy a lot of people feel much more comfortable using Paypal than a payment gateway).

        As a buyer I'd happily pay via Paypal on a smaller website, but I'd be very hesitant to use their credit card payment gateway simply because it's harder for me to verify authenticity as an end user.

        As a seller though, if you don't have to deal with Paypal…don't. They will always side with the buyer.

        • Lord Fart Bucket on 12/09/2016 - 21:06

          They will always side with the buyer.

          I'll be interested to see what happens with the ombudsman.
          As i said, it's not much… it's the principal. And it's the crap customer service.

        • tomclancy on 13/09/2016 - 11:29
          +1

          @Martijn:

          I'll be interested to see what happens with the ombudsman.

          I already know the answer, you'll have the cash in your PayPal account within 48 hours. Happened to me and many other sellers here on OzB. Thank goodness for the FOS! Good luck with it all.

  • Matwin23 on 12/09/2016 - 19:50

    Yep same thing happened to be with my etsy store. Paypal always favors the buyer. I have taken paypal off my website and use stripe now, but i didnt think you could use etsy without paypal in their new system?

  • spychiatrist on 12/09/2016 - 20:03
    +1

    I opted out of this company after they decided that on a fraudulent credit card transaction - credit card chargeback - it is my problem and that the SELLER PROTECTION does not exist actually. The card company sided with the card owner that the transaction was unauthorised. But this company still decided to take money off me, instead of actually applying the SELLER PROTECTION. After a few appeals, this company still abide with their decision. A billion dollar company that cannot be bothered helping the small fry in an obvious fraud.

    I try to avoid using this company but they are so ingrained that it cannot be helped. At least, I still have the option of NOT BEING A MEMBER and having the forex conversion handled by my credit card company instead of this company.

  • niner on 12/09/2016 - 20:43
    +1

    and having the forex conversion handled by my credit card company instead of this company.

    Paypal's forex is daylight robbery.

  • captobvious on 12/09/2016 - 21:03
    +1

    Paypal tends to favour the customer for services like in your wifes scenario. Not sure how they calculate it, i suppose in the real world of a physical shopfront if a customer is not satisfied with services rendered they are entitled to they money back or a setteled amount.

    • tonyjzx on 13/09/2016 - 20:31

      The OP is in an even worse position by selling digital items. Paypal goes out of its way to defraud digital sellers.

  • Some Human on 13/09/2016 - 21:42

    I thought there was no paypal buyer protection for digital items.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2016 - 17:05

      I think they updated that last year and now digital (intangible) goods are included.

  • SirFlibbled on 14/09/2016 - 11:30

    What is the digital artwork to be used for? If it's for their publication (eg on a website or some such) you should email them revoking any licence to copy, print or reuse in any way and that any copies of the image should be destroyed.

    While they're unlikely to comply and you're unlikely to sue, if it becomes necessary to do so, you at least have put them on notice.

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