Sold iPhone via Gumtree. Got Paid via Paypal. Credit Card Payment Charged Back

HI All,

I need some advice on this please.

I have sold two brand new iPhones. I had the Ad. on Gumtree and the buyer contacted me via SMS and offered to buy both phones and he asked to pay via Paypal. His story was that he would come to check out the phones and then ask his "business partner" to transfer the money. He then came to pick up the phones and sent SMS to his partner, the money came through ($75 less as Paypal charged me for the transaction). I then handed over the money and moved the funds to my bank account.

Few days later I received email from Paypal saying the buyer contacted them and he claims that we agreed to ship the phones to him once he makes the transfer and he hasn't received the phones yet. After long and painful series of emails and calls and providing the Gumtree Ad that shows that I mentioned pickup item in my ad, Paypal eventually closed the case in my favour.

Few days later i received another email telling me that the buyer filed a case with the credit card company and the CC company has issued a chargeback and they will try to dispute it on my behalf. A few days after, the CC company has closed the case for the buyer favour and charged back the amount and Paypal put the negative balance on my account.

It has been really devastating experience and saddening to see how people making frauds as their full time job.

I have dealt with PayPal not with the CC company, and Paypal close the case in my favour I don't see how they can pass the charge back to me. It should be between Paypal and the CC company, isn't it?!!

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Comments

  • +9

    Do you have proof of purchase?
    File a police report of stolen iphones, contact apple and have the IMEI blocked.

    Essentially force the buyer to cough up or return the goods.

    • and what happen with the negative paypal balance? OP will have their name passed on the debt collector, probably have bad credit rating on his record..

      • thats what im worried about. we I spoke with paypal, they told me they can't credit the money out of my bank account without my authorization. but im worried about have bad credit rating

    • File a police report of stolen iphones, contact apple and have the IMEI blocked. Essentially force the buyer to cough up or return the goods.

      I have a feeling the buyer (since he took both iphones) would've on-sold these phones to another unsuspecting buyer(s) so having the IMEI blocked may not do much in forcing the original buyer to return the phones.

    • apple said they can't do that and police wouldnt do anything, I had similar issue last year and i went to the police and they say its a VCAT issue as i gave the goods and they werent practically stolen. last year, I had the buyer mobile number, car plate number and passport copy and i couldnt do anything.

      • Why not, if the buyer is claiming he didn't get them then, technically, they still belong to you. Let him have his bricks.

  • +2

    similar case with this:
    https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2571653

    gee both of you are from victoria. 99% the same scammer!
    wow nowadays the bad people are the buyers!

    • OP should definitely read this thread on Whirlpool as after some pestering of Paypal he appears to have been offered credit as "good will" (as Paypal breached their own terms and conditions https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#… by allowing an item to be marked as not received when it was personally collected).

      However in the Whirlpool case the seller has yet to be stung by the credit card chargeback stage. They could be facing that in a few days.

    • yes exactly the same story, I have the buyer real name (from paypal) I did some googling and I could find his ABN number as well.

      • +2

        maybe can join that whirlpool thread and talk with the poster. 2 cases better than 1

  • +5

    So much iPhone scams, So much easier just to buy from Mobile Citi

    • +2

      or buy xiaomi from geekbuying…

  • -3

    Good Luck OP with your issue.
    I think in future we will all have to do

    " a GABLE TOSTEE"

    GTE (got the evidence)

    cheers
    BH

  • +19

    Gumtree = cash or GTFO

  • +3

    If it involves PayPal, never allow pickup.
    Either cash in hand pick up or posted for PayPal (with proof of delivery, eg tracking). This applies to eBay too. Very old eBay/PayPal scam.

    • it happened to me before and lucky that I had a gut feeling before sending the items out so I video taped everything from packing to sending plus receipt from Post. Boom, PayPal not in my favour, all I did was sending them those videos and PayPal apologised plus closing the case in my favour. Conclusion: PayPal and eBay always in favour of buyers, not sellers, even they are the ones who pay for PayPla or eBay.

  • I don't see how they can pass the charge back to me. It should be between Paypal and the CC company, isn't it?!!

    No, when you open a PayPal account you have to accept their terms, which state that chargebacks are passed through from the banks.

    If you were eligible for PayPal Seller Protection, which you aren't, then PayPal would have covered you.

    There is nothing you can do except learn from this, GumTree is for cash on pick up only.

    Scammers target GumTree as you aren't protected and always go for high value stuff like yours.

  • +1

    Could be man in the middle scam, so the paypal account holder may legitimately be out of pocket as well.

    • This is the first thing to discover. If you have his real name then it's obviously a police issue.

      If it's a MITM scam I would love to setup a few fake pickup sales to bait them on camera. Also it would be interesting to see what type of ID they send on-line.

  • I arrange all pickups in the foyer of my apartment block so they will be recorded on CCTV. It might be awkward but you should take a happy snap with a digital camera for a house pickup if payment isn't cash. If you organised pickup time via email or telephone, that record should help your case.

  • +2

    Sigh. This is why when I sell something on Gumtree I do cash or f**k off.

    • +3

      How unfair to the poor guys on oil rigs who will send a courier and offer an extra 10% for your trouble!

      • +1

        oh you meant the guy who works on the oil rigs who are buying it for his son whom got a really good result in high school?

        How very rude of me :P

      • right, they can as well afford full price items from retailers instead, why bother with …

  • +1

    That ought to trigger a nerve or two.

    Why would they come to your place to pick it up but insist paying with PayPal?

    • as it was a big amount of money and ppl usually avoid caring that much money.

      • +3

        Oh come on, people buy cars for thousands of dollars with cash.

      • if they are so afraid to carry the equivalent amount of the phone they are going to use, they are hypocrites lol

  • +1

    …hence Paypal does not warrant the premium it charges for the risk mitigation it claims when you can still be out of pocket by this classic scam. Had the same story with a car I was selling a while back. As said above … Gumtree - cash or the high road

  • +1

    Thanks for sharing OP. I'm sorry about the scam, thanks for sharing though, hopefully we're all just a little bit smarter after this.
    There's always low lifes around doing the Paypal + pickup trick :(.
    The CCTV is probably your last hope. :(
    Bricking the IMEI is probably the next best thing… though some other poor soul would have the bricked phones (the scammers would've on-sold the phones).

  • +1
    1. Report buyer to Scamwatch https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/

    2. Put a complaint through to FOS and tell them Paypal closed in your favour then buyer did the chargeback (via Paypal) https://www.fos.org.au/

  • With your PayPal evidence, you can definitely bring a case against the bank, perhaps go through the Financial Ombudsman's Service first.

  • Sadly you got scammed.

    Gumtree is for face-to-face cash transactions only. It's an expensive lesson to learn unfortunately.

    • Yup, a few reports of people using fake Bank Transfer receipts as well with Gumtree transactions, so always cash as others have mentioned.

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