Investment Property- Tenants Trashed Property - What To Do?

Hi fellow Ozbargainers.

I need some help, and I am sure that a few of you can do just that. I am asking, because quite frankly,I am beyond angry and need to do something to fix this. I think I need advice from people who have no emotional investments tied into this, have (possibly) been through the same, or are in the industry and can set me onto the right path.

So, long story short (as much as I can).

We bought an investment property about 6 years ago on the Central Coast, and leased it through the same agent we bought it from (so want to name them, but let's not be hasty…YET).

He seemed like such a nice old bloke…very helpful, gave us great advice. Helped us through the whole "investment property" minefield,and became sort of like a "Dad" figure in relation to all this (yes, I know…"it's business, not a bonding session, they are there to get commission..NOT be your bestie"), but at the time,we really needed someone,and he was it.

Fast forward to now -that real estate agent and his pointless property manager, (to my mind),seriously failed in their duties, and allowed each and every tenant (we have had several come and go over the years) to breach the tenancy agreement in every way possible…from having animals in the house (a violation of what is in the lease, and the results of which were obvious when the "property manager" did her "inspections"..but hey,"I didn't notice anything") to not paying rent (not just a few weeks…try MONTHS for the last tenant) and the excuse from the real estate owner being "you have to expect some damage, and that's why you have insurance").

The last tenant was the end of it for me…and the reason I find myself writing this. Over the course of about a year (give or take),these people came in (with the agent KNOWING that the person signing the lease was getting government help to pay this rent (not an issue being a single parent,BUT be able to pay the rent),was unable to pay otherwise AND had no previous rental history checked..something i thought ALL agents do prior to lease signing). This ended earlier this year after hubby finally told me (he kept some things quiet i think,to stop me getting angry or worried. Something I know is not great,and I wished he had dealt with this better as well, but what is done is done and now i need to fix this) and I told the agent to give these people the notice required to evict (90 days) due to months of rent not being paid ,and the agent not working with us to fix that)

After we told the tenants that,the hell began:

No further rent was paid at all (but a promise of "we'll pay $50 each pay to get back on track" was apparently offered at a later time…that remains unpaid,and no means of recouping seems to be possible). The insurance company has said,that due to the way the lease was written up, only two weeks of lost rental income is possible to be paid out…a $500 excess to recoup $800 in rent? Yep,sure I'll do that.How was it that the agent did not perhaps mention this to us (I didn't know that their are so many ways to write a lease…and that not all leases are as clear cut as you might think)

Damage on such a huge scale was caused that the house became uninhabitable for months after they left (think new bathroom needed,every door in the house being broken,the front door being unable to be locked anymore due to damage,the built in wardrobes all being smashed and the runners broken, the house being turned into a zoo…with something like 4 dogs, unknown amount of cats and God only knows what else being inside and outside (both neighbours saw this and told us about it later)..causing the carpet to become a giant toilet (and chew toy),the cupboards in the kitchen ripped from their hinges,and then there was the outside…since when does a backyard become your own private tip,whereby you can dig huge holes,bury rubbish,set it all alight and then leave massive smoking holes in replacement of the once beautiful lawn ("I never saw any holes" was the property manager's response when we asked her about it after one inspection (I mean seriously,you never saw THAT ? )and mould from one corner of the house to the other (that required a professional clean that took two days to complete. Yep,that bond really helped with all this).

Then, to make all this even more enjoyable,this week we got a water bill from the property (they should have been paying water bills -they never did, the agent was to get copies, pay what was required legally by us, and pass them to us if any issues arose…no such notification).It came to a total of $1800.

Mind you,no tenants have been in their since February,(we had a plumber come in last year to check on a possible leak,due to massive excess water bill. No leaks at all where found,leaving me with only one thought -taps were left on by these animals (after all the repairs,we went up their to check the place,and we found that the backdoor had been been destroyed,wire screen was cut,back door was hacked up and locks broken.The neighbours,both of them, stated that they saw the old tenants several times doing drive by's of the house, and where seen laughing at the house whilst all the builders, plumbers etc where there doing repairs.They knew this was them,as they told them all to "eff themselves" as they hung out the car windows)

So, there you have it. Perhaps a bit long,perhaps i have been a bit stupid in some respects (trusting someone who is there simply to make commission ,not getting a new agent sooner,not being familiar with every type of lease out there,letting hubby keep me out of the loop at times etc). But that is now done. What I really need, are avenues I can go down to try and get a little back from all this (that water bill,that was the last straw).

I paid that out of funds we had saved for our IVF cycles (which has now made all this very,VERY personal. I feel like these wastes of oxygen have taken from our potential child. Whatever was left was to be saved for the education i wanted for him or her later on. Other funds we had saved for the rental property were used up on the last tenants,and were not enough by a long shot for all this…even after insurance.The excesses alone came to over $2000, not to start with lost rent).

Again, I get that an investment is not to be personal,but who buys something like this,working their behinds off to get it,sacrificing everything to scrape the deposit to get it (with the intention of one day living there)and doesn't get emotional over it?

Any advice as to where to go and what to do would be amazing (please note though - I am a hormonal mess right now…the plethora of hormone injections / tablets / other, antibiotics,thyroxine etc,combined with the discomfort all these are causing mean I really just want positive,helpful responses).

Comments

    • Just regarding point 3.. the op is a bit hard to follow, but I assumed it was one water bill which was delivered post-eviction. In my council area that could be inflicted by tenants leaving taps on for 11 days (assuming 30L/min).. probably a lot less if sewerage charge makes up part of this.

      I agree with points 1 and 2.

      Regarding point 4.. At least in QLD it is(was?) much longer.. takes 2 months to get through the process and have a sheriff rock up to change the locks. I went through this once.. sheriff discovered tenant was 'breaking bad'.. had to get hazmat team in to remove drums of chemicals and cookware.

      My most recent tenants got raided when real estate noticed they had a plantation growing in the sheds. They said it was medicinal lol.

      (i guess if you can somehow deem the property uninhabitable, they have to immediately leave.. maybe take the roof tiles off for a while? :) Btw I think we do have a 2 week thing in qld.. but only for boarders/lodgers who aren't on a lease)

      • Hi Stitchy…i agree,i did go on a bit of a "vent" there,but i just wanted to fill in any blanks as i remembered them.It all just flooded out (much like the water that caused said bill.HAHAHA)

    • +1

      Not sure where you life, in NSW you can't evict in 14 days. By the time the monthly statement arrives they might be already 4 weeks behind, 2 - 3 weeks before it gets to the tribunal and if you're unlucky they turn up with a receipt to the tribunal and it all starts again at $ 80.- a pop.

      Even if the tribunal issues an eviction notice they can ignore it for a few weeks, then the sheriff swing into action taking another 3 weeks before he evicts. All up roughly 10 weeks from non payment to eviction, plenty of time to damage the property. Ours tenants just disappeared into thin air, never came back for their belongings or anything. The Real Estate and Cops don't want to find them, utility providers don't hand out new address or don't have them.

      Our lease was signed by one couple, house to be occupied by one Family. After eviction mail for 12 different people arrived at the address. Even checking the property yourself is not that easy, you have to make an appointment with the tenants and hope they are home when you arrive.

    • I hear you bao28.We had faith in the agent…they paid (out of the rent),any monies owing for such bills (we asked them to to do so.As they were a small,family run business,they were happy to do it).
      I take responsibility for being in a "friend" mindset,and not "professional" mindset…that will never happen again.We did get inspections every few months,but the agent said there was "no issues".Easy with the agent is never going to be an issue again (i was harder,hubby was a lot more "don't worry about it".

    • Yes,in some ways …..but if i live in Sydney,work shiftwork and am unable to be up there every month (we did go to see it a couple of times a year,but of course,best behaviour came out then.Plus,what do people pay / trust their agents for ? It is our responsibility to action on stuff,but that's why we got an agent rather than DIYing it….for them to have the headache before we did.

  • +1

    Zipties… Lots and lots of zip ties… Around their balls obviously :)

    Or rubber bands round their heads!
    https://youtu.be/obJXmgzWse0

  • +5

    Your first mistake was allowing the property manager make decisions on your behalf.
    Your second mistake was not chasing these issues immediately, it sounds like your husband is an idiot or didnt want to know what was really going on.
    Your third mistake was allowing your husband to handle it, from what you have said, he might not have had the inclination or intelligence to handle it.
    Your 4th mistake was not talking to multiple property managers and vetting them yourself, do your due diligence.
    Your last mistake was not doing research on rental insurance, and just fobbing it off on your property manager, who then got the cheapest/worst insurance available.

    This whole ordeal i hope you learnt a valuable lesson, prevention is much better than the cure.

    • Lessons Learned:1 Major one.
      Hubby at Fault:3 Major ones (idiot…no,intelligent…yes,not wanting to question a professional….not the best way to do things,but he won't do it again).
      We did check out other agents…but they were large chain members,who really couldn't care less about giving advice to us.This guy was a family run estate agent…he owned it,seemed to treat us like he cared and had experience in property investment himself…trust,when you have nothing else is able to make you blind to a lot of stuff (experience then sledgehammers you into vision)

  • +2

    lol that's the Centrelink coast for you

    • +2

      I must admit, without meaning to be heartless here, how/why did you buy an investment property in such a terrible area?? You must have had some inkling that this street was bad news, i doubt all the drug dealers just moved in overnight. I know the logic of "bad area = permanent rental income = good capital growth (eventually)" but I would never ever entertain the idea of buying a place in these areas

  • +2

    Hi OP,

    I read your post and you have every right to be angry and frustrated. I feel for you and empathize your situation. Being in a stressful situation not long ago, we know how difficult it is. While I can't offer you specific advise on your rental situation as I haven't been a similar situation, I just wanted to show support. Most important thing is to not stress out and hang in there. Focus on the more important things like your bub. You need to be positive and look forward to that. Financial and other stress is mostly temporary and will pass. I know all this is easier said than done, but please try.
    All the best and this is a great forum with great people so I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions. Stay positive and keep smiling.

    • +1

      Hi Porco Rosso….thank you sweety.I am doing as you and others here have suggested…this is done now (no money,hindsight,stress etc is changing that).Bub is what matters,and if i let this whole thing get to me enough,and something happened to our angel,i would never be able to function again.Money (and the worries that we all go through because of it) is transient… i can work,hubby can work,we can save…we have done so a thousand times before.It just hurts a little you know ? I am lucky to have found this place years ago,and all those of you on it who give some awesome advice (or just to lend an ear).It helps more than i can say actually. xo

  • -1

    Ask for free legal aid and see what they think. Maybe ask the police too.

  • +5

    I am a real estate agent in Victoria and can't believe that a tenant in arrears and in breach of the lease requires 90 days notice. That just sounds wrong.
    The Agent sounds like they have failed in their obligations based on what you have reported. I would be speaking to your local real estate institute and consumer affairs. Maybe a lawyer but that could be expensive and maybe not needed unless going to court.
    There should be a consumer tribunal to hear such a matter.

    • +1

      then you mustn't be a very good real estate agent….

      What does the LAW say the process is and the time frames when a lease hasn't been paid!?

      • +1

        Well the laws change between different states and I don't expect a RE agent to know the relevant laws in a state that they are not dealing with.

        In Victoria you can issue a notice to vacate with the following notice periods:

        • The tenant or their visitor causes malicious damage to the premises or common areas. - Immediate
        • The tenant owes at least 14 days’ rent. - 14 days

        So for a 90 day notice period with both malicious damage as well as being months in arrears does "sound wrong" according to Victorian law.

    • Hi there theguru1…nice to hear from you.I know that laws differ from state to state,but can i ask if you know of what the governing body for NSW in relation to real estate agents is ? (as a nurse,i work under APHRA,so if a health professional makes a mistake,that is who the public contact.I have no idea (but imagine there would have to be) such a body for your profession.A lawyer would be a bit much as far as expenses go).

  • +7

    I'm not a financial adviser but here is a thought:

    Get a lawyer, sort it all out, tidy the place up, sell it, buy shares, then twice a year you will get franked dividends, no rates, water bills, and most importantly no tenants or damn real estate agents. People think that shares are all risky and property is all "bricks and mortar" safe, but it comes with its hassles. Shares do have their ups and downs, but choose 5 different companies that have a good track record of growth and dividends, from different industry sectors and you will be very happy you did. Over the long run shares are easier, I believe people choose property because they "need" tangible assets, I used to have an investment property now I have my home and shares it's much simpler. Just make sure you put the equivalent of your mortgage pavement each month into shares and you will do very well out of it.

    • Shares can go down I.e woolworths.

      • +1

        or dick smith

      • +2

        Without a doubt I have some wow shares and if I sold now I'd loose, but I'm not going too. That's how people loose on shares they think you need to trade shares to make them a good investment, I've been buying shares for 20 years, I've never sold any of them, not even if they drop in value hugely, why? Well they still pay dividends. And if you choose wisely and be patient you will win, investing is a long game, everyone wants to cash in and grab money and good that's when I buy, when a company stinks and no one wants it. I'm an investor not a get rich quick trader. I'd rather give my money to the stock market than the bank in the form of interest, shares are not for everyone and that's ok, I've had a bad enough experience with investment property to not go down that road again. each to their own, I really hope the OPs situation works out for the best.

  • Fight for what you can,even the insurance company ,they will try to get out of paying, pay a lawyer if you have to. I know the cost but you may get one to at least look at your case and find a solution for free. Scum bag, dirty bogan tenants , who always seem to have god on their side even with references, because the last agent just wanted to get rid of them. Also be aware you actually pay for rent assistance tenants to live in your house because Centrelink charge a fee to pay their rent which cannot be passed on to the tenants, guess who pays. We sold our rental never again would I subject ourselves to the rental market is dodgy agents and tenants who apparently have "rights" that the landlord does not have. Cheers and good luck, stand up and fight.

  • +3

    The KEY to your problem is the poor property manager you hired. They need to do reference checks and check tenancy databases at the start to vet out undesirable tenants and do regular inspections and ensure your rent is paid in advance on time, and they should keep you abreast of these issues and recommend courses of action to deal with potential problems. If they don't do these things get another one. Don't wait until you have a problem.

    Landlord's insurance is not the solution - it leads to moral hazard - that is, people with it will end up being lazy, silly, … unmotivated to do things in their best interest without the insurance, which leads to spiraling insurance costs and so on. A lot of experienced property investors don't have landlord's insurance. They have the experience to hire the right people to look after their properties and having a number of properties allows them to self insure.


    Don't automatically think that selling your property is the solution to these problems as some people are suggesting. Once things settle down, consider hiring a good property manager - interview a couple on why they should get your business to build up your knowledge.

    Start by reviewing your original objective/plan with the investment property and while the last incident has pushed you off course, you are now course correcting and if it appears to get you back on track, then consider holding it, unless you have other reasons to sell. The transaction costs for real estate are very high (on both the buy and sell side), and therefore it should be considered on a long term basis.

    • -1

      Hi ihbh.I have always considered this to be like my super…long term strategy,ups and downs at times,but in the end,an overall good investment to have if you can.
      The issue with our old manager,was that i don't think tenant checks were done,the idea (as he told us many,many times…"that's what insurance is for.You have to expect some damage") was his credo,and basically felt the way about managing as the locals live.."don't stress,just chill".In Sydney,i don't think estate agents quite feel the same way.

  • +1

    Short form advice … push the insurance company you have as far as you can, there might be more in it. Otherwise, unfortunately, you are in the litigation zone against your agent and tenants.

    This might be worth investigating, but from the sound of the tenants at least, probably likely not to be worth it. Although, at the very least I would file it with the police and there could be come criminal proceedings.

    You might get some benefit from rattling the cage against the agent, but likely to be a relatively small settlement … take what you can get.

    Otherwise, you'll likely need to take your licks, get the place in as good a state as possible, sell it and move on.

  • +1

    Real estate agents are worse than used car salesman and this affects both sides of the equation
    They sell the property telling lies, about how much they can rent the property for, when they know full well they will only get it by not doing checks on potential tenants
    Basically greed
    Definitely you need to do your own research before entering the property/investment/rental market
    Agents are greedy/scum/conartists
    And they know their blacklisted tenants will take all the flack

  • +1

    Just curious, is there place in a dodgy suburb?

    • There are some pretty bad streets on the central coast. Most suburbs are sufficiently coastal to have good parts and not so good parts. I'm guessing this property might be Wyong area by any chance?

  • +1

    I'm sorry you had to go through hellish tenants, I wonder what has happened to human decency these days. I'm not sure how to help you out but my heart goes for you and hopefully you'll get a agreeable solution. Until then, stay strong and be a proud mommy :)

    • Yes, its hard to imagine there are people like this out there but I guess there are more than any sane person would expect.

    • Oh sweety…THANK YOU.I wonder as well.I (as mentioned earlier),have rented previously (we all have,i'm sure),and i felt that this place was ours…we live there,when we come home from work,and the day has been crap,this is our sanctuary….and we treated it as such.We will teach our bubba to be the same…just because you rent it,doesn't make it not yours.Look after things as if they really were yours,be proud of the piece of the world you call home and remember…these people who own your place,may have sacrificed all they could to get it…respect that.
      enzioFirenze,a strong,proud Mumma i am,and will continue to be…our beloved munchkin angel deserves nothing less.xo

  • +1

    Sorry but I doubt you will get your money back.
    Your PM has seriously stuffed up. Their primary responsibility is to collect money and they did not take action promptly enough. They should have threatened the tenant with eviction and taken that action if they did not pay. Putting the tenants on payment plan was useless and I do not believe this works very often.
    I had a similar issue in Victoria with the PM not collecting rent and allowing the tenant to get over $1500 behind. In the end the bond did not cover the whole amount as there were, at least minor, repairs required and left over property stored.
    I complained to the head office of the agent who was a franchisee quoting lack of duty of care and they tried to blame me. They eventually offered me $500 to go away. I complained to the relevant tribunal and they refused to act and asked me to see a lawyer. So I took the money as a layer would have cost more that what i was out of pocket for.
    I had no problems for many years and grew complacent, there is no substitute for being vigilant yourself regarding money collection. What I learnt is that you need to identify a problem early on and issue eviction notice immediately and action that if necessary, because the bond only covers so much. If you do that and there is no damage you can pretty much cover your losses, at least in Victoria.
    Also attend inspections if possible and if not request pictures or videos that are date stamped and compare to previous ones. Give the neighbours your details and invite them to call you if there are any issues. Also monitor inspections and insist on prompt reports to you.
    I still believe property is a good investment, I have lost money with share investments as have many others. BUT you have to be vigilant. If you sell maybe buy another in a better area.
    I do not understand why there is an issue with your husband does he not understand how life works. Did he not want to invest in property? You just cannot rely on other people to look after your interests.

    • +6

      Im sure you're going to get far and live a very happy and fulfilling life with that attitude.

      Did your parents who also rent drum that sort of worthless logic into your head or did you come up with it on your own?

      • -7

        hmmm… your part of the rent trap. my morales prevent me from climbing over everyone else for the want of personal gain.

      • immortalbjr…I THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART.I think i may leave it here for a day or so…i don't think we deserved that type of response (damn tears).I bought that home for my family…we came from nothing,and went through hell.
        To all who have responded with compassion,care,actual real great advice AND who just came to tell me it has happened to you too…MUCH,MUCH LOVE.XOXO

    • -1

      You know that not everyone who rents does so because they don't have the money to buy..

    • I rent because it's more financially savvy for me to do so. I could buy a house quite easily but it would tie me to an area and I have a very transient job. I could even buy a few investment properties and positively gear them but property is not my investment of choice. I agree with you on the greed part somewhat though

    • -3

      I agree with you. Landlords aren't going to get any sympathy from me. They want to sit back and collect a paycheck for doing nothing. Oh you "own" the house? Did you build it? Did you get down in the dirt and put in the stumps? Did you lay the bricks with your own two hands?

      Or did you just get lucky, born into privilege, and buy the house from whoever had it before you? As a landlord you're not contributing anything to society. You're a leech. You're hoping your 'investment' goes up so that people who actually work - teachers, engineers, cleaners, programmers, drivers - have to spend more time paying you to contribute exactly nothing to the world.

  • +1

    That's a horror story. I hope you have building insurance + tenant insurance.
    Unfortunately when you rent a property out it's a bit of a gamble and you were unlucky enough to get some of the worst feral bogan tenants. Cut your losses and move on.

  • Have you got the tenant's details? Can you track them down via social media/google? - take them to the courts for damage and loss of income. Check your contract with the property managers? Take that business to court. Ask your new property managers to provide photos (I mean who can't these days with smart phones). Its your job as well to keep on top of things.

  • +3

    Don't forget everyone to keep blaming the tenants that your most trusted father figure put in YOUR house
    If your going to leave a large investment and huge potential liability in the hands of some guy you don't know, I really don't know if there's anything people here can say to help you and your husband
    Perhaps you should take the financial reins off of hubby if he doesn't have the time to be responsible with your future

  • +1

    You can forget the police, you could try speaking to a solicitor about maybe taking the agent on for a "no win no fee" sort of thing but they will lie through their teeth to try avoid any responsibility anyway.

    Sounds like your best option is to cut your losses here. I would speak to the insurance and put up bit more of a fight on what they will cover, insurance never hand over anything on claims unless your willing to debate them on it, and speak to the council and try explain the situation that the scumbag tennants have left taps on and there anything they may able to do with regards to the bill.

    One of those situations where it comes down to how much you want to deal with people and the stress of it all. Your easiest option is to probably just pay to get it fixed up and put it on the market (with another agent ;) and hope in the time you've owned the property you may have earned a little capital gains over time to help offset the costs to repair.

    Unfortunately you need to watch property managers (and to some extent the tenants) like a hawk, you cant leave things like unpaid rent, bills and inspections go for months without being on top or that is what happens.

    Hopefully for you soon enough this will all just be a bad memory and you and your family can move forward. All the best to you guys

  • Sorry to hear but you trusted the agent - the fact is you can see a lawyer talk to the police but there isn't they or you can do.

    I know a number of people who have gone to mediation and the law almost always goes against the landlord regardless of circumstances.

    Cut your losses because it will cost you more to fight it and you will probably lose.

    That is the whole key to investment you win some and you lose some there is always a element of risk.

    But learn from your mistakes because that is all your going to get from this nightmare

  • +2

    Thanks. Been put off the whole investment property scene cos of this.

    • all investment has risks, don't get put off by it, make sure you have good risk management in place and control it you be ok.

      so for investment properties when you buy you got to factor in at least 4 weeks a year you don't have a tenant, you got to factor in unexpected repair and damage and if the number doesn't stack up don't buy else you just gambling and when shit happen you will be in the deep in.

      With shares, you spread your investment in dozen or two business
      factoring some may go shit sometimes and you lose money and dividend may slow during bad years, so in good years where they paid good dividend don't take it as things are always going to be like that factor in
      20% decline etc … When things have gone crazy and people start to gamble on the market and drive it wild you cash out and sit on cash and drink latte.

      The time will come again when no one want to buy a single share because of crash all those businesses you love and sold out earlier because of over value, you buy them back at 40% cheaper and drink more latte until the next time you sell out to drink latte again :-)

  • +4

    Why the hell are you married if your husband can not even tell you what is going on? Maybe some communication would have helped this situation! Money and emotions two things not to mix.

  • -2

    This is what insurance is for…

  • +1

    Part of the risk in properties investment, written off and move on don't let it affect your lifestyle and relationship.

    Don't take it too personally, there are bad and good people you just unlucky to encounter with a bad one, take notes, take steps not to repeat the same mistake.

    I lost money in stock market upward of 50K or 100K occasionally but it offset with other gain and I just take it as risk associated with investment, write it off and move on doesn't bother me that much

    you may feel a bit down at the time you wrote it off but you feel good again when you make 100K here and there again and then dividend cycle comes around twice a year and you barely missed it.

  • One thing to keep in mind is that your neighbours probably don't like you very much at the moment. They too had to put up with the awful tenants. So, going forward, I'd suggest dropping off a bottle of wine to them as a sorry and introducing yourself. If you want them to to keep an eye out for your property, give them your number, let them have some input of who the new tenants are.

  • Maybe you can look at suing the real estate for a huge lump sum

  • Hi OP,

    Sorry to hear about what happened - that is really unfair on you and I really hate that the agents weren't acting in your best interest. I don't have much experience within this area but I've heard stories from other people's experiences.

    Have you tried contacting NSW Fair Trading or even the Real Estate Institute of NSW? They should be able to provide some advice on what you can do.

    Otherwise, like other posters suggested, consult a lawyer to see what your options are. Good luck!

  • +2

    You have a signed Managing Agency Agreement and the Real Estate Agent has failed their duties managing your property on your behalf.

    Due to the way that they have written up the lease, you didn't have your full landlord insurance coverage for loss of rent and malicious damage.

    They should have issued a Termination Notice for non payment of rent as soon as they were over 15 days in arrears and lodged an application to the Tribunal soon after.

    I would first seek advice from Fair Traiding and put an application to NCAT for a negligence/compensation claim against the Real Estate Agent.

    Additionally I would consider changing the insurance provider to someone like EBM, Honan or Terri Scheers Insurance for better future claim results.

    • +1

      I'm interested to know more about this

      "I would first seek advice from Fair Traiding and put an application to NCAT for a negligence/compensation claim against the Real Estate Agent."

      I'm in this scenario and found the Agents don't really answer to anyone unless you drag them through the courts. Unless you know more? I was given a contact, but the number just goes to message bank and I never get a reply.

      Also, I was insured with Terry Sheer and each damaged item is treated as a separate act and attracts an excess. Ie the front door and bedroom doors were unlikely to be broken in the same act. Net result damaged front door replaced $450, internal $250 (excess $500 x 2!). In my case, all tallied up $7500 damage, $6400 excess.

      Insurance don't cover cleaning, as it should come from the bond. In my case $550 in cleaning, but the agent refused to take it from the bond as they either were friends with the tenant, or didn't follow process, ie didn't do the in going / outgoing inspection in detail (probably both).

      In the end I cancelled the bond refund request and applied to SACAT (SA) myself direct. However, only to discover only the agents name was on the bond application (not mine the owner) and the agent wouldn't provide sufficient inspection information required for the case.

      Therefore I have 2 choices:

      1. Take the agent to court for failing to act in accordance with the contract. Possibly recoup damage costs and maybe damages (in my eyes they failed to do anything other than provide bank details which the tenant direct debited into). Possibly so damages / compensation for my time.

      2. Keep all the receipts and claim it on tax. Get approx 1/3rd back and take it as a learned lesson. Even though I was insured and had an agent and they always paid on time, I need to be more proactive in the inspections and photo gathering. If an agent says they cant take photos due to tenant confidentiality (as mine did), tell them the tenant needs to find another house to live. Evidence is everything.

      Lastly, my agent was RAINE AND HORNE. I contacted state office who promised me the world, but after multiple follow ups, did nothing. Avoid them at all costs!

  • +1

    Always filter out tenants with extreme prejudice

  • +12

    With respect for the grief this story has caused the OP; this kind of story really just demonstrates how broken the Australian model of real estate "investment" really is.

    You story illustrates a heady mix of an unsophisticated investor buying a single asset (concentrating risk), failing to understand the risks ahead of time, being unqualified to select appropriate financial services (insurance, for example), unable to negotiate (or indeed comprehend) an appropriate contract with other necessary service providers (in this case real estate agents).

    Additionally, said agency appears little more qualified at risk and relationship management than your average hair dresser - seemingly also a very common theme in the Australian R.E industry.

    All this for (presumably) a negative net yield in order to grab some tax credits and (fingers crossed!) a quick capital gain.

    Anyone wonder why this rubbish doesn't happen in Germany or Finland?

    • +6

      This is the most salient response yet.

      There is a belief, an expectation, pervading Australian society, that even with a lack of knowledge and/or high degree of ignorance, there is an entitlement to seemingly limitless growth and profit.

      Greed exists at every level of this story: property owner having huge expectations, but no obligations to due diligence; middle-man agents/insurance, etc doing as little as possible for as much as possible; tenants taking advantage of well-intentioned tenancy laws and avoiding payments (and common decency).

      And then this system is bolstered by deliberate government schemes (negative gearing, tax concessions, home buyer's grants) to enhance and multiply the level of greed and expectation.

      It is surprising that examples like the OPs are not even more common. And certainly plenty of other posters here have indicated their similar negative experiences.

      Anyone wonder why this rubbish doesn't happen in Germany or Finland?

      Because the Australian 'culture of greed' is not as pervasive in those countries? Because the acquisition of property for usurious profit is not the primary goal of a large percentage of the population? Because 'housing' is not viewed as necessarily solely a profit-making venture? (Hence the prevalence of very long-term leases in many parts of Europe.) Because European experiences of war (and differing cultural standards) have provided a different focus to some of life's priorities? And many other reasons…

  • +2

    A lot of unexpected things can and do happen to investment properties. I won't bore you with the stories (mine and my mate's). I personally made the same mistake as the OP: use the agent who sold me the house for investment property management. It is common to think you can use just any property manager, but that's actually a mistake. The investment manager is quite important and it is definitely worthwhile paying more for a good one.

    I've been screwed over by insurance companies (CommInsure being the nastiest of all, avoid CommInsure - you might as well throw the money in the toilet, rather than insuring with them), real estate agents (dishonest / wrong statements, not paying fees on time - so I had to pay all the late fees, and worst of all, bad tenant selection (basically, the agent just want to get someone to sign it - even though that ended up hurting both the agent and me)) and obviously the tenants, quite a number of them don't give a damn about your property.

    It's part of life unfortunately. OP might feel he is very unlucky, but the truth is, what OP described wasn't that uncommon. My friends and I had gone through things which were far worse.

    Suggestion to OP: move on, nothing you can do… but change agent asap (if OP hasn't done so). One thing to remember, do not give real estate agent a second chance. Once they've made a mistake, no matter how small or how minor, it is a big warning sign. Lazy property manager is bad and can (and often will) cause you problems later on (unless they happened to find you good tenants - unlikely though).

  • +1

    Sorry to hear about your story.

    I guess you have only two options:

    1. Think of it as lesson learnt. Sell the property. Move on with life and little one.
    2. Fight till the end, get lawyer or something or knock government offices and insurance companies.

    I recommend make a decision and just stick with it. There is no turning back

    Best of luck !!!

  • Speak to a lawyer. You may have avenue to go after the agent who, based on your post, likely didn't perform their duties with sufficient diligence.

    In future, as the owner, I would insist on approving applicants yourself so that you know the type of people you are letting live there.

  • +1

    My suggestion to OP is just move on. I know it won't be easy. All the things OP mentioned happened to me and/or my mate too. We both changed our agent too late (for me, it was really too late, one of my tenants did something far worse than OP's terrible tenants. Believe me, there are worse things tenants can do to your property. My mate also experienced things which I reckon are worse than OP too. A few pointers for people:

    • Don't try to save money on agent commission or insurance (i.e. don't go for the cheapest). It will come back and bite you big time.
    • Your property manager plays a big role (from tenant screening, how fast you can get the next tenant, prompt repairs, regular inspections). There are so many things the good agents do so much better (and those things make your life easier).
    • After I realised my mistakes, I actually screened/checked all the agents in my area before deciding on which one (I called all of them, talked to them and also attended their open of inspections for other rental properties (without them knowing) - to check out how they do those). You want to have people you can trust to manage your property.
    • Be prepared for the worst. When the tenant decided to break the lease (or they failed to pay rent and you want to evict them), they simply stop paying immediately - because there is no incentive for them to pay any more and they know you have their bond and they will have it fully depleted. Your agent will take their cut first on the bond before you get to deduct your expenses. So when that happens, be prepared for bad things to come. Also, it is quite common the tenant will trash your property even more (very common, one of my tenants trashed my property too after they could no longer afford to pay rent).

    Don't ignore the warning signs when your agent is not doing his/her job. Be prepared to switch agent when yours is not doing his/her job.

  • +2

    Hi OP,

    I had a similar tenant, I heard they got raided by the police and busted for firearms because there was a story in the local paper and the tenant was sent to jail. Missing rent for a few months. I know drug users were in the property because it had a sharps box, box of 100+ syringes and heaps the clean needle boxes that drug users can get from pharamcies in NSW. The whole back yard was a dump, the inside was a dump, animal crap on the carpet. just cleaning cost of removing all the rubbish was around 3k. All bedrooms had a wall smashed and even the ceiling had hole in it like someone fell through the ceiling, entire dbl garage ceiling torn down.
    Repairs were around 20K.
    Lost rent payout was like +5k.

    Anyway what sort of insurance did you have? Landlord insurance should cover your repairs? The damage should be able to be covered under malicious damage by tenant.
    If you have inspection reports from agent you can use those to prove what condition the building was in before the tenant moved in, to prove it was the tenant that caused the damage.
    Also I'm not sure why you would have to pay the water usage charge as this should be under the tenant or previous tenant name. Sydney water and other utilities will chase whoever the bills name is under for payment not the owner of the property. The owner only pays for the water service costs.

  • +1

    You could sell up (reduce selling costs however you can, there's a good thread on selling property in the forum) and buy a global REIT ETF?

    Not investment advice, just personal opinion.

    All the best.

  • +1

    On the bright side of things - you have an awesome tax deduction for repairs/depreciation now! Gotta love negative gearing.

    I never understood why property investors get so worked up over dodgy agents/bad tenants, yet they happily lose thousands of dollars every year on negative gearing to the banks and call it an "investment strategy".

    • If you have an interest only loan , then you are just renting from the bank…with a 30% discount from the ATO.

      • How do you come up with this shit? No one actually has a marginal tax rate of 30%.

        You're still spending several thousands of dollars on everything else - rates, water, maintenance, agents … list keeps going.

        • Middle figure from here:

          https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/

          and yes, yes. But then you get your depreciables back, and interest deductions and maybe some capital growth, maybe a loss, may need to pay capital gains, maybe not..etc etc.

          My point was that people sometimes forget that by buying a house, they don't instantly own a house. Especially if going interest only. You are just renting from a bank, and as you point out plus a few extras and minus a few extras.

        • @tunzafun001:

          Middle figure from here

          Middle of what?

  • From personal experience, you will not see any recourse - basically with the amount of time and money you spend suing everyone (tenant, agent etc), you will not get the benefit.

    Similar thing happened to us with our house trashed by druggies and agent didn't do anything properly. We elected to move on. Tenants left behind their crap and the legal system is rigged to their benefit - i.e. we have to store their crap for 3 months at our cost (and recoup this cost from them.. yeah like they will pay).

    Get proper insurance, get proper agents (even if you have to pay a little more); and ask for pictures of property every six / twelve months when an inspection is carried out so you know what is happening.

    Just like us, you've learnt the hard way. Good luck.

  • +1

    Lets create a list of Agents / Insurance companies that aren't up to scratch.

    I'll start,

    Raine and Horne Whyalla (this also includes the head office not following up in any way, contrary to phone conversations).

    Issue - Allowed the tenant to create an absolute mess, didn't perform inspections as per SACAT requirements, refunded the bond 3 days prior to the tenant exiting and no cleaning done. When questioned, the agent themselves returned and wiped the toilet over with a sponge on the kitchen sink (and then returned it to the sink). Attempted to fill holes/ groove in backyard where a lawn used to be, did a terrible wall patch up. Wiped over a wall, but only as high as they could reach leaving a nice scum line, said a mouldy bathroom floor and broken tile is acceptable (bathroom was brand new and only a 6 month tenancy!), left mouse droppings in pantry, had no idea where the curtains had gone. In summary, all the jobs a bond is for and wouldn't have been an issue if they followed process. Arrogant, stubborn and basically filthy refusing to take any responsibility.

    Terry Sheer Insurance- Assessors act quickly, but be careful as they charge an excess between $450 to $500 for every act. So if 3 doors are broken, that is a $1500 excess. The only items worth claiming for me were the carpet, oven and benchtop.

  • Lesson learnt.
    Best way to rent, it's rent it yourself. Unless you earn over 150k per year.

  • -

  • My parents went through something similar and had to go to a local court in order to get money back from the renters when huge amounts were missing.

    As for repairs and insurance, definitely scrub through the contracts to see what they're missing out on and consider contacting the ombudsman. There's not really much you can do about it other than repair, replace or demolish.

    Not too sure what to do regarding the property manager, but it seems like others have better advice on that regard.

    All the best.

    ps. Once it's all done and dusted, name and shame that mofo.

  • It infuriates me that so many people like this exist, because it makes it impossible for me to rent a place as a young single male. I don't get the motivation to trash a place. How messed up can someone be in the head?

    • If you're a young single male offering 3 or 6 months rent up front it's yours.

  • Really should have followed up on this earlier. My mother is like a hawk with rental properties, she had some dodgy tenants some years ago but the agents wouldn't try to pull any of this with her. Feel sorry for you, OP, the guy obviously wasn't doing his job if he let feral after feral treat the place like this.

  • -1

    Sorry to hear this, I can only empathise with you and with the fact that your apartment would have been better off rented to a family of 10 rats.

    Australian tenancy law is rubbish, simply put.

    We have an issue with the builder here, Built this apartment of 50 units in 2009. he's still holding onto 25 units which he rents though a company he created whilst the other 25 units were sold off the plan back in 2009.

    Since 2009, we've uncovered 4 major defects:

    • Leaking garage
    • Leaking roof
    • Cracked wall
    • Blocked balcony drains.

    Do you think we tenants have anything against him? nope, he tells us to fk off.
    We've raised $60,000 between 25 units to fix 25% of these issues.

    Moral of the story….current tenancy laws here are crap.

    Hope you can get them by raising (what we have here in NSW) is a case via NCAT!

    • paaj on 06/12/2016 - 16:54:

      Similar thing happened to us with our house trashed by druggies and agent didn't do anything properly. We elected to move on.
      Tenants left behind their crap and the legal system is rigged to their benefit

      frostman on 07/12/2016 - 20:53:

      Do you think we tenants have anything against him? nope, he tells us to fk off.
      We've raised $60,000 between 25 units to fix 25% of these issues.

      Moral of the story….current tenancy laws here are crap.

      So…. the system is rigged for the benefit of tenants, while at the same time it is also rigged against tenants?

      I'm beginning to think how one views tenancy in general may depend on which side of the fence one is standing. In other words, self-interest overrides objectivity.

      Well, duh. Nothing new to see here. Move along.

      • -3

        You must have comprehension issues, so yes, please DO move along.

        My issue was that the developer/builder owned 50% of the units in an apartment block. He's not keen to spend $1 to fix building defects because of the legal system here which protects builders/developers for being chased up. Worst case scenario he can claim bankruptcy and no one can chase him up for a door knob.

        Op's issue was about his/her property being trashed by bad tenants.

        I was just reading an article about the education system in Australia falling behind and kids scoring way below average in general, you certainly fit that criteria.

        • +1

          Thank you for your creative insult. My first for the day.

          If you had read the context of my comment I was sarcastically highlighting two contradictory opinions. And then I opined that perhaps one's own self-interest may help determine one's view on the matter. My 'duh' comment referred to the fact that this is bleedingly obvious! And further, that it was more self-deprecating than directed externally.

          It is possible I may fit the criteria for being below average regarding my… education. That has never been an accusation which has stuck in the past; but in our new world of 'truth = opinion' (especially cf, Trump's America) I acknowledge that other's low opinion of me may well be (their) reality.

        • -2

          @Roman Sandstorm: OK Shakespeare

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