Beware of 28 Degrees Credit Card

BluBoy on 02/01/2017 - 01:43
Last edited 02/01/2017 - 01:44

This pains me a little to post, I've been a big fan of this card and have recommended it several times on here and to family/friends IRL.

However, this is no longer the best international fee free card to use. A change in ownership (GE sold it to Latitude Financial Services) earlier this year has only now introduced a few sneaky (predatory?) tricks to weasel fees from users.

28 Degrees card is usually combined with a a range of insurances ('shoppers protection' and 'travel insurance').
To avoid paying fees, you must pay your card off in full before the statement date, otherwise you'll be charged for the insurances.

Changes introduced by Latitude Financial Services (so far).

  • As some of you noticed, Latitude has introduced a fee for paying by bpay recently. Infact, the only way you can avoid fees, is by paying by their 'preferred method' of using the online portal.
  • The online portal has a hidden caveat, that you can not pay more than your account balance.
  • Policies and procedures have changed (more on this later).

While annoying, none of these seemed like that big of a deal.

Where it all goes wrong

Allow me to walk you through my experience over the last statement period.

A few days before the statement period, I noticed my balance was $2000. I also know that I have a regular bill of $20 due on the statement date, which I should account for.
I want to avoid fees, and use their preferred method of payment, so dutifully log into their online portal to manually make the payment that way.

About a week later I receive a letter advising me that my payment had been rejected. Strange. But I log back into the online portal, quadruple check my details, and make the payment again.

About a week later I receive a letter advising me that my payment had been rejected again. Very strange. I log back in and find approximately $100 in fees and interest charges (5 (FIVE!) seperate items!) on my account for the non-payment. This has gone from strange to annoying at this point.

I phone 28 degrees, 45 minutes and 4 transfers later, they tell me it is a problem with my bank and I should call them.
Phoned my bank, they can't see any payment requests, and confirm the money was available the whole time.
Back to 28 degrees. Another lengthy wait, but this time I google around while I'm on hold. That's when I see other people posting about the same issue. Their conclusion… Any payments made on their online portal that were more than the balance outstanding, were being rejected by 28 degrees system.

I double check my account, and yup. That $20 bill on the way was rounded down to $19.95 this month. I had been overpaying my account by $0.05 and the online payment system was silently rejecting the payment.

I bring this up with the next agent (supervisor) I am transferred to. He has an 'ah huh' moment and says yes, this was an issue on their site.

Fantastic, we had solved the issue, and it was not my fault. It was a known issue that was not mentioned on their website at all…

(A side note, just to compound this issue… As I had an additional card holder, we both make seperate payments to cover our individual spend. Last month we discovered that multiple payments can not be made within 3 days of each other. So when my additional card holder made a small payment to cover her charges that month, it rejected my attempt to pay the remaining large amount until 3 days had passed. As we make our payment just before the statement date, I incurred fees and charges for that month too!)

Where it goes REALLY wrong.

The supervisor advised me that despite all of this, he could only offer me 0% refund on some of the fees and 50% on others (a total of ~$25 off the $100 in fees).
I kindly reminded him what we had discussed, they confirmed that my payment had been attempted before the due date, it was for the entire amount (and 5c) and that there was a known issue with their payment system that silently rejected this payment… He then went to a script, pretty much saying that it was the policy of the company to not offer full refunds for these types of charges.

I want to stress here, that the supervisor was definitely on my side, and was speaking as though the company had a gun to his head.

Summary

28 Degrees have a very laggy timeframe for charges to reach the account.
If using insurance with 28 Degrees, you must pay your account BEFORE the statement date to avoid fees.
28 Degrees have recently introduced payment fees to all methods except if paying via their online portal system
The 28 Degrees online portal payment system, has a known (but not disclosed) bug which will silently reject any payments which are greater than the outstanding amount).
Latitude are enforcing a policy of not refunding fees, even if they are demonstrably at fault.

Conclusion

Their are many things wrong with this, but allow me to focus on a few that really bug me.

28 Degrees appear to be attempting to prevent users from overpaying their account in order to extract additional fees from them.

  • Charges are laggy to appear on the account.
  • Users have to estimate the exact figure their statement will be, before the statement is generated (to avoid paying insurance fees).
  • If the estimate is a few cents off (overpaid!) the payment will be silently rejected by their defective system.
  • Communication from 28 degrees is delayed in order to apply additional fees.

Up until this month, I have over paid this (and my other) credit card. Sometimes it was just to round the figure, other times it was because I knew I'd have a large spend next month.

Options

While fee free foreign transactions was nice, at some point they intend to catch you out if you pay with their online system. A $2,000 debt incurs ~$100 worth of fees in a single statement period. This undoes any other savings almost instantly.
If you choose to continue paying by bPay, this card is no longer free fee, as it will be costing you ~$12 per year in fees. While this isn't terrible, it is no longer the best option for fee free banking!

Please have a look at other options before considering this card. Bankwest and Citibank products are also well regarded around here.

If you have been charged fees due to their faulty website as well, I'd suggest taking it to the Financial Ombudsman for review.

Financial

Related Stores

28 Degrees Card
28 Degrees Card

Comments

  • Starcraftmazter on 03/01/2017 - 17:57

    Australia has some pretty strict financial regulators, you should definitely hit up ASIC and see what they have to say about this.

    http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/contact-us/how-to-complain/

    Latitude is clearly creating a situation which makes it arguably difficult to avoid having to pay the price protection fee - despite them plainly advertising that the fee does not have to be paid if you meet the conditions they are now making it unnecessarily hard to meet.

    I am going to stop using the 28d mastercard now myself for everything except major electronic purchases, and strategically time them so that there is no chance of this happening (ie. more than a week out from end of period).

    If they want to screw customers over, then they will not have my business.

  • charlie123 on 03/01/2017 - 19:15
    +1

    Used price protection 3-4 times recently (after latitude tookover), mostly with The Good Guys. Got money back easily.

    Pay off card before the statement generates, otherwise a shopper's price protection fee is charged.

    Used the card to pay for meals, taxis, things, etc in Bali a few weeks ago. The exchange rate is very close to market rate. No deduction of 3% or any extra fees for using credit card overseas. For ATM withdrawals, used citibank debit card which gave a similar exchange rate.

  • Timfoo on 03/01/2017 - 19:29
    -4

    Don't be a tightass and slap your account in credit with. BPAY, then go overseas

    • SBOB on 03/01/2017 - 19:55
      +3

      that is no longer a valid option with 28deg cards

  • neonlight on 03/01/2017 - 20:01

    I pretty much cancelled 28 degrees last October. Thankfully I did that. 8 years of relationship gone. Bye bye. Get the alternatives Bankwest zero platinum or citibank

  • constipated on 03/01/2017 - 21:03

    I've just checked and I made 2 payments using the OSC system in the past 6 weeks. On the first occasion it let me put in $50 more than the outstanding balance. On the 2nd occasion, $60 more than the outstanding balance. Both times it went through. There were no rejected payments and my account is in surplus by more than $100.

    I'm not sure what happened to BluBoy.

    I agree the OSC system is a pain in the arse near the statement issue date if you are subscribed to price protection.

    • BluBoy on 03/01/2017 - 21:16

      The thread in Whirlpool indicates that it may account for your current statement period amount as well. Example (statement date on the 15th, payment due to 30th).

      • On the 15th, statement is generated for $1,000
      • On the 20th, you purchase a PS4 pro kit for $599
      • On the 29th, you use the OSC to pay $1,500.

      Even though you statement was $1,000, the amount outstanding on the account is $1,599.
      As you paid $1,500 this transaction will go through.

      So it's allowing up to your current account balance at the date you pay via OSC, not just the statement balance.

      I would be interested in hearing if this is what has occurred for you

      • constipated on 03/01/2017 - 22:03

        I've checked.

        My account was about $10 in surplus. I made a purchase near the billing date which in retrospect I think didn't get processed until the next billing cycle as I didn't get a bill as my account was in surplus.

        Anyway I paid about $50 more than this amount which tipped my account further into surplus as I wanted a buffer for any future purchases near the billing date.

        For my next purchase I was able to put in an extra $60.

        Both times I've had to wait for the charge to appear on my account. Prior to that it gave me the "cannot pay more than your outstanding balance" warning.

        Were you direct debiting for the first time from that account. I was doing it from an account where I have paid from many times and the details were saved into OSC.

        On a different topic, I'm interested now in this Coles Mastercard. Can anyone confirm that the price protection has no minimum price reduction limit. On the Account Cover Plus PDS dated 14/12/16 I can't find any mention of a limit. If this was so, the 2 year limit and an easier method of putting the account into credit would be a plus.

        • BluBoy on 03/01/2017 - 22:06

          Just confirming this was our first attempt at OSC.

          EDIT: Correction it was the second (kinda)…

          Myself and an additional card holder share this account. We both examine the current statement period and pay our share.
          The previous month, I used the OSC to make a small payment to cover my share that month. This is how we found out hat you can't make two payments within three days. The additional card holder attempted to make their payment and was rejected. Thus we copped the shoppers protection charges that month.

          The month in question, I transferred my share to the additional card holder, who then attempted the OSC transfer that is at the centre of this issue.

          TL;DR - We made a payment via the OSC from account #1 the previous month. For the current month, the failed attempts were from a different account.

        • constipated on 03/01/2017 - 22:32

          @BluBoy:

          I wondering whether there is an extra verification process with the first payment that failed in your case. As you stated it's unclear whether the fault lay with the bank or 28 degrees.

        • BluBoy on 03/01/2017 - 22:34

          @constipated:

          Bank confirmed no request had made it to them.

          The CS Supervisor also confirmed that when over paying, the system will fail. It was a known defect to them.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2017 - 09:07

          @BluBoy: its 5-7 days between payments now :(

  • anat on 03/01/2017 - 21:14

    Good post OP. Thanks.

  • kev98 on 03/01/2017 - 22:42

    Will go for BankWest card. Does anyone know if they usually require payslips? Payroll on holiday now so might need to wait to apply if they do

    • tight-ass on 04/01/2017 - 23:27
      +3

      Just signed up for the Bankwest Zero Platinum MasterCard online last night.

      The online application advised it didn't approve my application for the Zero Platinum and instead approved me for the Zero MasterCard with a $3500 credit limit - mostly due to the fact I simply don't have any banking history with them. I don't have any debts and a perfect credit history.

      They rang me today to get some further information on my current expenses and to confirm I have no debts. I also had to provide them with 2 of my most recent pay slips again as the one I provided through the online application couldn't be opened by them for some reason. I advised them I wanted a Platinum Zero with the 6k limit as I intended to use it purely for overseas travel - the lady said she'll pass this info onto the relevant person who approves/declines applications.

      Got an email from them this afternoon advising the new card is on the way already - Zero Platinum with 6k limit.

  • julesio on 04/01/2017 - 09:29

    Still happy with 28 Degrees. A $95c BPay charge is minimal and the card has worked seamlessly every time I have travelled overseas. I am always dillogent with paying off purchases every two weeks to avoid interest on all cards so this doesn't feel like a huge isssue for me. Then again, I do use the Citibank Plus card for 95% of transactions when travelling so perhaps I'm more liberal about this issue.

  • MeesusEff on 04/01/2017 - 11:34

    Yesterday I paid off a bit extra on my 28 degrees to see if what OP says about rejection will happen, but it went through and I have an extra $2 on my cc now. Maybe the rejection doesnt happen for everyone's accounts?

    • BluBoy on 04/01/2017 - 11:48

      Read my comment under 'constipated' (a few posts up)

      Can you confirm if you over paid your statement amount, or the account amount at the time of payment?

      • MeesusEff on 04/01/2017 - 12:00

        oh. my statement date is on the 9th. I had an amount owing of $13.09 (no pending transactions), and I put in $15 through OSC and it went through, if thats what you mean?

        • BluBoy on 04/01/2017 - 12:08

          Just to clarify…

          Pre-statement amount of $13.09
          Card hasn't been used anywhere else.
          If you do not use the card for the next 5 days, you are expecting a statement saying you are $1.91 in credit

          That is interesting. Based on my experience (and a few others on Whirlpool), I would have expected that to fail.

          One final question for you, is this the first time you've used OSC?

          —

          I'm now wondering if:
          * The issue has been fixed
          * There is a maximum amount you can be in credit (mine ended up being a little more than that)
          * Difference in first payment, additional payments and change of bank details payment (my situation).
          * Our accounts are marked 'different' (Depending on signup date, additional card holders, claims, credit limits, etc)

        • MeesusEff on 04/01/2017 - 12:13

          @BluBoy: I have a few statements with credits as balance before, so I thought when I read your post something changed but mine still went through. In Aug-Sept had $0.90 credit, Nov - Sept had $9 credit in the actual monthly statement.

          Have used the OSC since the bpay payment came out, no additional card holders, no change of banks, sometimes pay off more than once a month, make quite a few PP claims and $6000 credit limit .

  • Sydneyfishrocks on 04/01/2017 - 15:55
    +1

    Cannot believe so nasty they are now! Thanks for your detailed information. Going to cut my 28 card into pieces.

  • tanastra on 04/01/2017 - 18:40

    Master or visa DEBIT card would be better choice than 28 degrees card that really sucks your hard earned money out out you without you knowing it until you sit down and read your monthly statement closely . You only used for what you transferred into your DEBIT card . You are in total control of your own Money and spending .

    • eug on 04/01/2017 - 18:50
      +5

      You are in total control of your own Money and spending .

      You are in total control of your own money and spending with a credit card too. The banks don't force you to buy things or pay late just because you have a credit card.

    • Baysew on 04/01/2017 - 18:54
      +1

      Master or visa DEBIT card would be better choice

      That would be a very bad choice. The main reason for a 28 Degrees card is that there is no charge for international transactions.

      (The only exceptions are Citibank Plus & Macquarie Bank.)

      I don't see that I have any less control of my own money and spending by using credit cards. I also have the advantage of earning points and having up to 60 Days Interest Free period.

  • HeWhoKnows on 04/01/2017 - 21:10

    I always thought this card was CRAP! Everyone completely misunderstood how it operates. Wrongly assumed overseas withdrawals were free when they weren't!
    The BEST credit card for overseas BY FAR is the BANKWEST ZERO Platinum MasterCard if you can qualify for it. Zero for zero fees!

    • tight-ass on 04/01/2017 - 23:28

      Agreed - cancelled my 28 Degrees card last night and got approval for the Bankwest Zero Platinum MasterCard today.

    • eug on 05/01/2017 - 02:33
      +3

      Wrongly assumed overseas withdrawals were free when they weren't!

      Were you basing that on old information?
      It was definitely free in the past. But things change.

      The BEST credit card for overseas BY FAR is the BANKWEST ZERO Platinum MasterCard if you can qualify for it. Zero for zero fees!

      28 Degrees has zero fees if you're using it as a credit card overseas.
      It is not an ATM/bank card. It is a credit card.

  • lilkid28 on 04/01/2017 - 22:59
    +1

    TL:DR

    Cancel your 28 Degrees card ASAP

  • prinsenhof on 05/01/2017 - 09:48

    I have had different issues since latitude financial took over. Frequent websites crashes with the apologies, will be available later messages, my card has been stolen 3 times since they took over. Even im going wtf? when 99% of transactions are paypal, that means that 1 transaction i did was the cause or somethings very wrong. My main issue now is this:
    I caught 2 invalid transactions as they occured, "pending". I called up to report it, they said there was nothing they can do until the transactions appeared. I had to specifically ask them to cancel the card, otherwise they were happy to let it continually get ripped off. Called two days later after the transactions came up to dispute them, they said ok but actually didnt do anything. 3 weeks later i called again, when they finally disputed the transaction. Its now january 5th when the first report made was in november, charges are still on my bill. They told me it will take 3 weeks to resolve, rang yesterday and they said, no it takes 33 days and they are still trying to find out what happened.

    They just dont have training, everyone says something different and im left quite concerned im not getting my money back on the invalid transactions. One told me not to pay it as it and he interest will be refunded, now im not so sure

    • uggugg on 07/01/2017 - 14:50

      I reported fraudulent transaction on Dec 13. Still being "investigated". Was told it takes up to 45 calendar days for investigation to be completed. Slower than a bloody wet week

    • chichi on 30/01/2017 - 13:27

      Wow this worries me a bit. I caught $1500 worth of fraudulent transactions on Saturday that had been made that morning. We rang and they cancelled the card straight away. They did say it could take up to 45 days to investigate but I assumed it wouldn't take anywhere near that.
      It was my card that was used but my husband rang as he is the actual account holder (I just have an additional card). The guy starts reeling off all these charges and said are you sure your wife wasn't shopping online at 5.30 this morning?

      I checked the account just now and some of the purchases have gone through. I hate the thought of having to look at all these charges until it's sorted.

      • bluesky on 30/01/2017 - 15:47

        Thanks for sharing, and hope you get it sorted with minimal trouble.

        That is the other thing, unlike other cards (Amex, Citi), as soon as a transaction goes through, you can opt to receive an alert by SMS or email. That way, if you have not put through a transaction, you know immediately.

        28D has very little useful alert features. A fraudster can put through many transactions before the card holder even finds out it is happening. I have this card which is rarely used. And I do worry how am I going to know if this happens.

    • prinsenhof on 30/01/2017 - 20:17

      Just a follow up on this.

      End result was they charged $22 interest on a fraudulent amount totalling $286.10 over the 44 days they took to resolve it. They refunded $9.20 of the interest.

      To resolve, i need to call them between 8am and 4pm because the department that handles it isnt open any other time. They have a policy where they can only resolve things directly over the phone, so they cannot log a problem to have someone look into it, i need to be on the line.

      I have just stopped using the card.

      If you have an open dispute, pay the fraudulent amount in full or they will sting you for the interest and make you chase them.

      • chichi on 31/01/2017 - 08:51

        I read up a bit last night on what happens with interest and everything I've read says they refund you everything including the interest. The fact that they didn't refund you all of the interest concerns me as our total is much more than the $286.10 stolen from you. I really wouldn't want to be paying interest on $1500!

  • flyingtrapeze on 05/01/2017 - 09:48

    from Coles Mastercard website

    SHOPPING ONLINE AND TRAVELLING OVERSEAS
    If you have a Coles No Annual Fee or Coles Low Rate MasterCard remember there are fees charged when you with draw cash or make a purchase outside of Australia or in a foreign currency, even when you shop online. This may be in Australian dollars or any other currency where the Merchant is located outside Australia or the transaction is processed by an entity located outside Australia. If you are unsure if your online retailer is processing your transaction outside Australia please ask them to clarify this for you.

    If you have a Coles Rewards MasterCard there are No international Transaction Fees on purchases when using your card to shop online or when you’re overseas. However, there are fees charged when you withdraw cash from an automatic teller machine outside Australia or when you make a cash advance at international merchants in a currency other than Australian dollars.

    If you want more details on these fees please refer to your Financial Table or visit coles.com.au/creditcards

  • RocketSwitch on 05/01/2017 - 10:47
    +1

    Chiming in with my experience with 28 Degrees.

    No issues at all.

    Using it for years. I had price protection and used it several times online, no issues. I remove it because I found myself not really using it and sometimes forgot to pay off my account for the premium.

    Other than that, they have never added a fee or any odd activity on my account. Customer service has always been helpful.

    Every time there's a suspicious amount being deducted, they communicate via SMS to let you know if it was you that made that transaction.

    I don't use BPAY to make payments, I use their online portal.

    There's a lot of hate here, I think individuals' experiences matter, but it's a minority. Take caution just with every other bank.

    Other cards might be better, but it's nowhere near as bad as this thread has made it out to be.

    • BluBoy on 05/01/2017 - 11:47
      +1

      I should add that I had had no issue with 28 degrees until now. I had been with them for almost 10 years now. Used shoppers protecting a handful of times, but not in recent years. I kept it, as I understood their system and liked the idea of having it there just in case.

      I think understanding their system was the key. Being able to 'overload' the card before a holiday to get fee free ATM usage was handy. Knowing how and when to pay to avoid fees also helped.

      But obviously that has changed…
      - Fee free ATM withdrawals was stopped.
      - Fee free bPay was stopped (Serious question… Does anyone else charge you to pay them via bpay?)
      Now I fully get that no good banking products last forever, so I was happy to stay with them at this point.

      But then, it became clear that fees weren't the only thing the new owners were changing.
      - The decision to rush out a dreadful payment solution was terrible. But hey, this would mean that people would just pay the bpay fee to keep doing what they have always done.
      - The new policy to absolutely not issue refunds is atrocious. Even when they admit they were at fault, they are refusing to refund their own fees.

      Now, while shoppers protection is supplied by an external company, and I doubt that this will change to make claims difficult.
      I am expecting the new owners to be doing everything possible to extricate CC fees from users at this point.

      This is not where it will stop either. The new owners are already running surveys indicating they are considering introducing new fees and making this more of a rewards card.

      The 28 degrees card that you knew is slowly, but surely changing under the new ownership. For some users the changes haven't hit them yet (don't withdraw money overseas, don't pay early by bpay). At some point though the changes will hit. Maybe when you need customer service to fix their own fault (my point), or maybe when they introduce a rewards system with fees.

      • retiredfeline on 05/01/2017 - 12:28

        At the moment I'll just wait and see if there are any adverse changes. I use it for overseas CC payments to avoid transaction fees, pay by DD rather than BPay, and don't use shopper protection so I'm not affected yet. I switched to Citibank Plus for ATM withdrawals when they they started charging withdrawal fees. I did get charged 95¢ once when I paid by BPay because the amount owing was > $1000, and my DD limit is $1000.

        Maybe they're already doing a good job of scaring off customers and we can just sit back with popcorn.

        BTW:

        doing everything possible to extricate CC fees from users

        The word you want is just extract. Extricate means to get out of something unpleasant, like he extricated himself from committee duties. Maybe your phone's autocorrect did this.

      • eug on 05/01/2017 - 12:37
        +4

        Not everything stays the same forever. I've had a great run with 28 Degrees - saved hundreds if not thousands of dollars easily - so if they decide it's not financially viable or profitable enough for them and change things for the worse, I'll just be glad they've given me so much over the years and part ways with a smile.

        There's an amazing amount of hate here just because they decided to change some things. Everyone needs to remember nobody is forcing them to use the card, and it's not all about them and their needs only. Businesses need to make money too. With the amount of money I've saved by using the card, I'm more than happy to pay fees occasionally. If people aren't saving money with this card, they aren't using it right and would probably be better suited to a different card anyway.

  • giventofly on 05/01/2017 - 13:58

    I'm so confused.

    I tried to pay off the balance on my card which was $14.99, I did and got charged the BPAY fee of $0.95.

    Account balance was now $0.95

    So I went to the Pay My Account option and provided the BSB and Account number that they could get the $0.95

    I can see that $0.95 has been credited onto the account, but my balance is still $14.99 (with $3484 available)

    And I can see that $0.95 hasn't been debited from my savings account that I tried to pay the 28 Degrees fee with.

    And now when I go to Pay My Account to pay the $14.99, it says I am ineligible as I've used that facility in the last 5 days.

    Pain!

    • Carbon Door on 05/01/2017 - 14:38
      +1

      gotta wait a few business days for the funds to clear and then the charge(s) will disappear as long as you don't make further purchases!

      • giventofly on 05/01/2017 - 15:16

        Thanks, Micoa. Will give it till Tuesday.

  • gimme on 05/01/2017 - 16:03
    +1

    Got rid of 28D Mcard the when they started charging for ATM withdrawals. Citi debit + Bwest ZERO Plat Mcard is the way to go.

    • Colombian on 05/01/2017 - 16:08

      And what difference did it make?

  • Schpeltor on 05/01/2017 - 17:25
    +1

    I have cancelled my card 2 months ago. They were great, but a few sneaky tricks without additional benefits has put me off.

  • azz on 05/01/2017 - 19:27

    Cancelled my 28 degrees card the moment Latitude introduced this stupid payment system. Not worth the effort dealing with it especially when the Coles Mastercard exists

    Already had the following cards so the 28 degrees was pretty much obsolete anyway:
    Bankwest Zero Platinum - for fee free foreign currency transactions, complementary travel insurance
    Coles Mastercard - for price protection, also offered by GE but gives you a 12 month window instead of 6 months
    Citibank Plus - for free ATM withdrawals overseas, but soon to be useless in March as well

    28 degrees card was a great product but became an average product once they introduced the cash advance fee. Charging you to pay your bill is bloody ridiculous, so I've closed it and never looked back

    • eug on 05/01/2017 - 19:40

      Cancelled my 28 degrees card the moment Latitude introduced this stupid payment system. Not worth the effort dealing with it especially when the Coles Mastercard exists

      But Coles MC uses the same payment system. Latitude took over Coles MC as well.

      Charging you to pay your bill is bloody ridiculous

      Surely you've tried to pay a utility bill with a credit card before? :)

      • azz on 05/01/2017 - 21:21
        +1

        Latitude does indeed look after the Coles MC as well but I'm not aware that they charge a fee to use BPAY yet?
        When I log into the 28 Degrees website and go to Pay My Account there is the option of "BPAY (fees apply)". The Coles MC website is nearly exactly the same except it justs says "BPAY". Same thing with my last 28 degrees statement, while my Coles MC is free of the "*fees apply". I'm sure it's only a matter of time but for now I don't think there is a fee?

        Haven't actually tried to pay a utility bill by credit card before, but at least with those you have the option of BPAY, not some broken system that rejects payments!

    • Colombian on 05/01/2017 - 20:52
      +1

      Citibank Plus will continue as usual, you are mistaken.

      • azz on 05/01/2017 - 21:27
        +1

        I stand corrected. Was worried what I was going to do about travelling after March.
        Seems I wasn't the only one confused about the Citibank Plus changes in March though? - https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/281210

        • BargainShopaholic on 11/01/2017 - 18:47

          You will see in the terms and conditions that the Citibank Plus is excluded from the changes.

    • sky blu on 06/01/2017 - 17:21
      +2

      Only the Coles Rewards Mastercard ($89 premium p.a.) effectively renders 28 Degrees obsolete.

      28 Degrees does have its perks and one should not consider getting rid of it based on the fact there is an imposed fee on the (most widely used) payment option. Paying through their Online Service Centre literally takes seconds. It only gets cumbersome when insurance/shopper's protection comes into play and it takes a few tries to get the payment timing right. The people that have good practice on nailing $0 fees on this card don't go and write essay-long positive reviews. Only the ones that unfortunately get hit with a bit of fees are more likely to vent their spleen.

      IMHO since there are currently (3) Coles Mastercards being offered there is minimal likelihood that they will start charging fees like 28 Degrees. They are "vendors" whose financial products are supplied and handled by the "supplier" (Latitude Finance), and so while what they have on offer are similar, they don't necessarily have the same structure and operation. Think of energy supply, there is only a single supplier in your region but you can go with any energy company (vendors) with attractive offered rates.

  • sepa on 06/01/2017 - 08:03
    -1

    Yeah, that bpay fee annoys the hell out of me, but not enough to ditch the card. I don't pay on the 28 degrees website and instead transfer payment directly from my bank account to avoid the fee - same amount of effort as bpay but you need a few more business days before the due date to ensure you make the deadline. Siĺly policy though. It just means I use the card less. Overseas purchases only now.

    I applied for a Westbank card a while back but they wanted a copy of my tax return - to hell with that.

    I stopped using 28 degrees for cash withdrawals through atms a couple of years back when they started charging 3% on overseas cash advances, so new atm fees are not an issue for me. I use Citibank Plus for cash now.

    • sepa on 06/01/2017 - 11:23
      +1

      I take back what I said above. I must have paid on the 28 degrees website, there's no way to do it directly from my banking portal. My bad (memory) but I don't use it much now.

  • twig on 06/01/2017 - 09:35
    +2

    You also can't use the bank payment option more than once every 5 days.

    I almost got stung with some fees when I paid a big one-off purchase 5-6 days before my regular balance was due.

  • aedeau on 06/01/2017 - 11:15
    +3

    I cancelled my 28 degrees as soon as they introduced the fee to pay via bpay. I now use bankwest which worked out fine for us when we went to japan in Oct 2016.

  • Daniel Plainview on 06/01/2017 - 15:49
    +1

    Dunno if I'm missing something but I've always used an authorised direct debit for 28Deg to take the full outstanding balance amount from me as a payment - doesn't seem to be any fees for that (based on checking last several months statements) and on the statements it doesn't have an asterix next to this where the payment options are listed - those with asterixes are subject to fees.

    • SBOB on 06/01/2017 - 15:57
      +1

      that works fine, except for those using price protection who would be paying 1% on each months outstanding balance

  • prozerran on 06/01/2017 - 18:08
    -2

    ****If you are using it as a overseas credit card - then this card is one of the best ***
    Honestly, need to change title of this thread to - 28 Degrees Card not good if you try to dodge buyers insurance fee!!

    1) The card itself is good for international transactions used as a credit card (fee free transactions).
    2) Payment of the debt - there are several fee free ways to do this without any issues (direct debit or online service centre). Bpay is $0.95.

    If you use it for buyers protection, this is a good card - but hey that's why it charges 0.5% for buyers protection on statement balance. But that is how is it suppose to be used by paying 0.5% for this feature ($0.50 per $100 balance). OP is just trying to use a 'loophole' to avoid paying the buyers protection insurance, by prepaying the amount prior to the statement generation, which does not really seem fair to me - to get something for free. 28 Degrees is just making the prepayment of the statement harder to close this 'loophole'. I am all for it. If you use the buyers protection - just pay for it!!

    Don't forget for the number of interest free day you get probably around 25 days from statement generation if your money was say in your offset account for every $100 you save about $0.35 to $0.50 extra interest (4.2-6% pa). About the same cost as buyers insurance anyway!!

    Good alternative options for travel:
    -Bankwest platinum credit card - No international fees, travel insurance if you sped $500+ (I don't find the exchange rate as good as 28 degrees in the past, same day same card - even though it should use mastercard rates)
    -Citibank plus - it is a debit card that uses money from your Citibank plus account.

    • Colombian on 06/01/2017 - 22:02

      Why I'm going to pay for buyer's protection when the company allows you to pay before the statement to avoid that fee? This is not a loophole, they make it clear in the conditions.

      I see nothing wrong with that.

    • BluBoy on 07/01/2017 - 00:25
      -2

      ****If you are using it as a overseas credit card - then this card is one of the best ***

      'One of the best' arguable, but sure, there are only a handful of cards in this niche, so why not.
      But to be clear, it is not the best. Not by far. And your suggested title is just ridiculous.

      For the group who use Shoppers Protection:

      • This is the most arsed about way to pay it off. Needing to manually log into a known faulty OSC to make precise payments every month (despite the lag in charges appearing on the card).
      • At best, this is no longer a fee free card. It's either $11.40pa to pay by bPay, or shoppers protection 0.5% of your statement amount (even if you pay it off in full by the statement due date).

      For all users:

      • They have already introduced foreign ATM fees.
      • They are refusing a refund of their own fees, even when they admit they were applied due to a fault of their own system. This is the new policy being drilled into the CS reps. Do not expect much assistance from them should you ever run into any sort of issue on your own account.
      • The are already investigating introducing additional fees and charges to the card.

      Once upon a time, this was the card to have. However, in the last 12 months since they positioned for a sale, then actual sold to Latitude Financial Services, this card has moved to the bottom of the pile of the niche group it once led.

      Now, I have no problem with them charging fees to maintain a great product. But that is not what is happening here. The card is being monitised by Latitude Financial Services. The service provided is being reduced. The fees being charged are being increased every few months.

      FWIW, on the few occasions I have tested it, I have found the VISA (Citibank) forex rates better than Mastercard. And have never noticed a difference in forex rates between my old 28 degrees card, and a friends Bankwest.

      • prozerran on 07/01/2017 - 01:10

        In terms of international fee free cards there are only 3 I am aware of 28 degrees, bankwest platinum and Citibank plus (debit) cards.

        I don't see the other 2 cards being any better than this one, and Citibank plus is a debit card.

        • BluBoy on 07/01/2017 - 02:42
          +4

          … I just showed you the issues the 28 degrees had above (and all throughout this thread).
          Why don't you prove that this is 'the best' card?

          There is also the Coles CC, offering zero fee, zero international transaction fee (but also owned by LFS), plus other specialised products available.
          But, let's just look at 28 Degrees vs Bankwest Zero Platinum

          Bankwest 28 Degrees
          No Annual fee No Annual fee
          Forex @ Mastercard rate Forex @ Mastercard rate
          55 Days interest free 55 Days interest free
          17.99% Interest Rate 21.99% Interest Rate
          2% Foreign ATM fee 3% Foreign ATM Fee
          $0 bPay fee $0.95 bPay fee
          Shoppers protection fee calculated on statement due date Shoppers protection fee calculated on statement generation date
          Price guarantee of up to $1,000 per claim Price guarantee of up to $600 per claim
          Price guarantee applies to other local shops Price guarantee only applies to same store
          Price guarantee within 21 days Price guarantee within 182 days
          Travel Insurance included Travel insurance not included
          3 Month Purchase Security Warranty (accidental breakage) 6 Month Extended Warranty (accidental breakage)
          No Limit on lost/stolen/broken items (max $125,000pa) $1,000 Limit per object on lost/stolen/broken items (max $4,000 per event or $8,000pa)
          ~12 month Extended Warranty 6 Month Extended Warranty
          Decent customer service policies Customer service under strict policies to reject customer claims

          So… Lower fees, better insurance and decent customer service.
          Now before you nit pick any of the above, make sure you let me know how in full, the 28 degrees card is not just better at one or two items, but the 'best overall'.

          Data taken from their respective websites and PDS documents
          http://www.bankwest.com.au/personal/credit-cards/compare-cre…
          https://www.28degreescard.com.au/credit-card-features/

        • prozerran on 07/01/2017 - 10:38
          -1

          @BluBoy:

          I a not nit picking on the card features, but you seem to be.

          The main reason people have gotten the 28 Degrees card in the past is because of the first 2 lines, namely No annual fee and No international currency exchange rate charged by the card.

          The other features yes they are a bonus. The inability to draw out from ATMS has been changed around the start of 2014 - so it has been like that for ages, and they are a credit card not a debit card.

          If you extend to the other features then yes BankWest card looks better, but it is only a SMALL percentage of card holders that use the 'other' features. And yes I have heard it is easier to claim price guarantee via 28 Degrees. I don't use any of the below features (I have travel insurance on another card - and that is probably one reason I might choose BankWest one).

        • eug on 07/01/2017 - 12:58
          +2

          @BluBoy:

          There is also the Coles CC, offering zero fee, zero international transaction fee (but also owned by LFS),

          No - the fee-free Coles CC charges an international transaction fee.

          There is no one card that suits everybody. What does not suit your needs might suit other people's needs perfectly. The 28 degrees card is clearly not for you now, but it might be perfectly suitable to other people. No need to be so vehement with your vendetta against 28 Degrees.

  • outlander on 07/01/2017 - 00:35
    +2

    This post reminded me to pay my bill. Log into the account, and see this:

    This feature is currently unavailable.

    Please try again later or refer to the alternative payment methods to make a payment to your account.

    • BluBoy on 07/01/2017 - 00:38

      Just logged in to see the same error. Fantastic.

      In all seriousness, I hope this is a planned outage, as they upgrade their system to something resembling a professional banking system.

      • lancedefrance on 07/03/2017 - 01:49

        Was this resolved? I am trying to pay mine for this month and seeing the same error. I have a feeling that this feature doesnt actually work.

        • BluBoy on 07/03/2017 - 15:13
          +1

          FIO is still investigating.

          Apparently LFS told them it was outside of the scope of the FIO (LFS tried to pass it off as a fee amount disagreement… Which is outside of the FIO scope).
          FIO disagreed with this assessment (on their own, they didn't even push it back to me…I think they realise that it isn't just a disagreement about fee amounts, but something more sinister by LFS).

          FIO have requested additional time to investigate further, so no update from me yet.
          The fact that it wasn't just rejected back to me when LFS said 'no', makes me think that something may actually happen from this.

  • Autonomic on 07/01/2017 - 06:20

    Maquaries Platinum Transaction Account offers a debit mastercard that doesn't charge you to use it overseas as well. Unfortunately they will charge for foreign ATM withdrawals.

  • Polak on 07/01/2017 - 11:29

    Which of these card's gives hassle free Travel Insurance?.

  • Munnie on 07/01/2017 - 20:51
    +1

    Adding my experience… I had similar experience with OP but I got a refund of my $20 'late fee'

    I tried to avoid the Bpay fee and paid online. The payment was rejected and I didn't know. The letter notifying the rejection came 2.5 weeks after it was rejected and by then my statement was overdue.

    First phone call (right before Xmas) - operator checked my account. He can see that MY BANK rejected the payment. I said I did try to pay quite early on and wasn't notified of the rejection of funds. He talked to his supervisor and confirmed that they will waive the $20 'late fee' and half of the "finance charges" and "deferred interest" associated with the late payment.

    Checked my account a few days later. They refunded me half the charges/interests, but they only refunded me $10 of the late fee instead of $20

    Second phone call (New Years) - told the operator the first operator said I'll be refunded the full $20 but only $10 was credited. He had a chat with this supervisor and processed the $10 credit during the call.

    So in my attempt to avoid $0.95, I paid a lot more (half the late charges/interests) and a lot of time (wasted on phone calls) that I'll never get back.

    Even tho I am disgruntled, I am still happy with the card overall for overseas purchases… but I'll be paying off my balance via bpay from now on (the $11.40 a year is less that what I lost from the late charges/interests)

  • Givemethemoney on 08/01/2017 - 18:54
    +2

    Thanks this was the final straw for me that made me cancel my 28 degrees card.

  • Macgyver on 10/01/2017 - 19:59

    With out reading all of this thread, what is the best credit card for overseas use now at the moment?
    I am considering to cancel this card as well.

    • BluBoy on 10/01/2017 - 20:16

      If you use the absolute basic features of this card, and are aware of the 'gotchas' (and can avoid the crappy customer service)… This card is OK…

      Otherwise, checkout the table a few posts up… The Bankwest card is great, plus includes travel insurance for you.
      The only gotcha with that card, is the 2% ATM fee if you withdraw cash overseas (still better than the 28 Degrees)

      If you don't intend to use all of the credit card features, but do intend to withdraw a lot of cash overseas, look at the citibank plus debit card.

      • Macgyver on 26/01/2017 - 23:30

        What about debit cards? I know the Citibank is the best card for overseas but what is the 2nd best to that?

    • Polak on 16/01/2017 - 11:07

      citibank plus debit card appears to have problems with compatible atm's overseas, they are changing from visa to MasterCard in march this year so not sure If that will Improve it's relations.

      • retiredfeline on 16/01/2017 - 11:11

        What problems have you encountered? Haven't had problems using it in a range of ATMs though in some countries some banks charge an ATM fee.

  • BluBoy on 12/01/2017 - 19:55
    +1

    Part two - The Saga Continues…

    Two weeks ago, this all came to a head after the Customer Service Supervisor announced that it was their companies policy to never refund a fee in full.
    While on the phone to them, I asked for an exact dollar figure that needed to be paid and requested the card be closed immediately. I made this payment immediately and hoped to move on from this.

    Today I received an SMS saying that the account couldn't be closed as there was a balance outstanding.

    I logged on to the account, and once again, I found that my payment had been rejected (and another flurry of fees applied of course). This means I have to call them again :(
    Phoned them up, they again tried to blame the issue on my bank. I stood my ground this time and told them it was not an issue with my bank.
    They double checked everything and discovered that the payout figure the previous agent had provided me was incorrect. And yes, THEIR SYSTEM would reject any payment larger than the outstanding balance.

    This is now beyond a joke. I paid the exact dollar figure provided (while still on the phone with him) and once again the payment was rejected and I am left with fees that they won't refund.
    I asked for another payout figure from this CS agent. I have once again attempted to make the payment and will wait to see what reasons they intend to come up with to add on additional fees to the account.

    To make this even better, the OSC was stating that payment couldn't be made at this time… The CS agent suggested logging out, and then back in until it was available. Not just once. But to continually do it until the stars aligned and I had access to make a payment… Yup, this sure sounds like a competent and professional outfit. It would put the Centrelink, ATO and Census systems to shame!

    Now - I'm sure people will suggest just paying the $0.95 bPay fee… This fee is no longer my concern. My concern with LFS, is that they are pushing their 'preferred payment method' when they know it is faulty. They are doing this in order to collect exuberant fees from us. This is the reason they have introduced the 'no full refund' policy and have continued to push the faulty OSC on to us.

    Hopefully this is the last time you hear from me, my card might finally be closed and I can move on from this pathetic company.

    • angelfromhell on 16/01/2017 - 14:25
      +1

      Dude, with the time you have spent on this, contact the financial ombudsman and put everything in detail and in writing.
      Seek damages, not only the additional fees charged what shouldn't be, but also your time spent in it.

      • BluBoy on 16/01/2017 - 20:19

        Oh, that was already done on day 1.

        … And LFS has about 2 months to respond. I'm expecting them to use all of the time they are permitted to drag this out even further.

  • angelfromhell on 16/01/2017 - 14:21

    Sorry for your experience, this is absolutely horrible,
    for your information, you should really contact Financial Ombudsman Services to lodge a formal complaint,
    the financial institutions usually takes those complaints seriously.

  • Black Hole on 11/03/2017 - 19:50
    +2

    I was on the phone on 3 occasions and on each occasion that claims to have resolved the issue of using another bank to transfer fun for the balance owing.
    It did not work for me and had resulted in bpay fees as a result. I end up cancelling my card. Bye bye 28 degrees.

  • HeWhoKnows on 12/03/2017 - 15:51

    28 degrees has always been crap. I looked into this one and people always seemed to get it all wrong. Hence all the complaints which were unwarranted because people didn't study the rules and conditions properly, rather just accepting someone elses take on it.
    Best free credit card with all the works thrown in is the Bankwest Zero Platinum Mastercard as long as you can qualify and pay the balance off in full each month.
    If not go the the Gold one instead

    • Macgyver on 12/03/2017 - 16:31

      How do you apply for the Platinum card? I can't see where to apply for the Zero Platinum card only the normal Bankwest Zero card on their site.

      • bluesky on 12/03/2017 - 19:33

        They lump the Zero Mastercards (Platinum and Classic) together.
        Application is at this link under the How To Apply tab.

        The specific wordings, when you apply:

        Online application takes minutes to complete, get an instant online response. If successful, you will be offered a Classic or Platinum card, depending on your approved limit.

        The free foreign fees and travel insurance is only with the Platinum card. Hope this helps.

        • Macgyver on 12/03/2017 - 22:59

          I see. So if I want the Platinum card(the classic is useless for me to be honest) then how do I get that if they end up giving me the classic card?

        • bluesky on 12/03/2017 - 23:13

          @Macgyver: I suppose you have to chance it, and then cancel if you get the Classic card. Or try to persuade them to upgrade it(?) It is kind of a hassle; but don't know what else you can do if you wish to apply for the card.

  • noshopping on 17/03/2017 - 02:30

    Has 28 degrees recently changed their international transaction fees? I use to buy and the price would always track with xe.com. I spent $2k recently and the difference was over $50!! I have a feeling they might be adding a tiny little % buffer in their favor recently??

    • bluesky on 17/03/2017 - 05:17
      +1

      Not aware of this, but does not surprise me one bit if this is happening.

    • tomsco on 25/03/2017 - 22:49

      They use the MasterCard rate, which should be close, but not the same, as the XE rate.

      Maybe check that, comparing against the posting date, not the transaction date.

  • starbearer on 20/03/2017 - 18:13

    Is anyone aware of how to enable SMS/text alerts on all transactions? I've scoured through the Online Service Center but didn't find it anywhere.

    I'm afraid if some dodgy restaurant used a hacked POS device to copy my card number and used it to perform transactions, ages would pass before I log in through the OSC and see them. I can even make do with an automated email.

    • bluesky on 20/03/2017 - 19:37

      Have checked on multiple occasions, to see if they have finally added this useful feature - alerts on transactions. But seems like they still haven't done it. With all the fraud on credit cards, one would think this is a must-have feature for credit cards. Could potentially save the institution money if card-holders notice fraud quickly, and inform them asap. So not sure why its not there.

  • Hogg on 25/03/2017 - 10:24

    I appreciate all the comments in this thread and others re 28degrees. It helped me choose the Bankwest card and I've been very happy with the card and Bankwest's excellent customer service.

    Thanks ozb for saving me money as always.

    PS is that why 28degrees is now watchnerd?

  • ryhawk on 15/05/2017 - 14:06

    So advice on which card to go for to handle online console game purchases?

  • HeWhoKnows on 16/05/2017 - 12:00
    +1

    Crap card now. Time to get rid of it

    • eug on 16/05/2017 - 14:33

      It's crap just because of the bpay fee?

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