What Does My Boss Want?

Hi guys,

My boss told me that I am not performing my job as he wanted.
Long story short: I asked him what I did wrong and how can I do better. He said that he wants me to do everything by myself without needing to ask question or confirming what he wants.

I said OK, however what if I gave you isn't what you expected, or what if I made a mistake because I didn't check on you first?
He said, well I absolutely don't want that. Then I said: ok, so how do I give you what you wanted, without asking what you want, and definitely without making a mistake? Then he said, well that's up to you to figure out, and apparently you didn't, that's why we are here…. Then he told me to find a new job because I'm no longer wanted.

I don't think I'm being treated quite fairly here. How do I make some sense to this guy?

For info I work at a bank as an analyst.

closed Comments

  • +8 votes

    Grad level?

    I don't know how long you've been there, but I would expect a fair degree of autonomy. Are there not processes, as well as drawing on your qualifications, that aid you to produce your work, which should than be satisfactory for your boss?

    • +9 votes

      I don't know how long you've been there, but I would expect a fair degree of autonomy.

      Your boss wants you to use your own brain.

      If they didn't, they'd employ an assistant, a labourer or an algorithm to do your job.

      • +12 votes

        Yes - but we need some context here.

        Is he asking the same questions all the time and not remembering stuff - or is he asking how new things are done and then able to apply them again and again?

        I mean - when I first start a job - all I do is ask questions. Questions that I haven't asked before or maybe asked once or twice because it's a task that doesn't get done for months.

  • +23 votes

    you might want to brush up on your grammar/English as well

    • +8 votes

      I understand what he said. If someone doesn't speak English well, it mean he/she know another language.

      • +8 votes

        If someone doesn't speak English well, it may mean he/she knows another language.

        Fixed that for you.

        • +16 votes

          It must be fun being a native speaker - showing learners of English just how good you are at your first language.

        • -4 votes

          @AddNinja:

          It's not about self-promotion, it's about correcting errors.

          In this case, the omission of the word "may", intentional or not, renders the clause factually inaccurate: Not nearly everyone who doesn't speak Enligsh well, knows another language, as highlighted by Ughhh below.

        • +12 votes

          @Scrooge McDuck:
          Why not challenge yourself. Take an hour or two and ask yourself: am I doing this to teach people standard English because of a love of teaching and my fellow man… or is my ego out of control? Face that darkness - what do you see there?

          After pondering this - if you still decide you're all about the teaching, ask yourself if perhaps there are better ways to do it. What were your favourite teachers like at school? What would be an appropriate way to instruct someone about English grammar when they haven't asked you for help?

          I'll leave you it to you. And thanks again for tea recommendation in the other thread.

        •  

          @AddNinja:

          Face that darkness - what do you see there?

          Father!?

          What were your favourite teachers like at school?

          Gamey, but with a sweet after-taste.

          What would be an appropriate way to instruct someone about English grammar when they haven't asked you for help?

          Public shaming!

          And thanks again for tea recommendation in the other thread.

          You're welcome. :)

        • +3 votes

          @Scrooge McDuck: you always do this! Annoy me with one comment and then crack me up with another :)

        • +1 vote

          @AddNinja: I'm not a native English speaker but I think using a language in the right manner is as important as learning It. The fact that you are able to convey messages and people could understand it might just do fine, but in a professional job that just doesn't cut it. So why not fret / point out the fun when someone points out a mistake, instead try to learn from it?

        •  

          See, Mcducky can fix things without asking questions ! Why can't everyone else ?

      • +3 votes

        Some people really can't speak/write English to save their life, despite growing up in an English speaking family and growing up in Aust.

        it mean he/she know another language.

        Like gibberish.

        •  

          So you can't understand it? Or do you mean that the minor difference between this and standard English offends you?

        •  

          @AddNinja:

          If you're taking about understanding the ops post, yes I understand it.

          But I'm taking about "some people", as in some other human beings in general, not specific to the op.

          Why offended? One can't be surprised?

          I hope this you don't misunderstand.

        •  

          Please learn about second language acquisition. It's not easy, and if a person started learning second language after puberty in most cases they will never be at the native level, no matter how hard they try. The level of errors and accent will still give away it's a second language.

          My understanding you can only have one first language, even if you're a bilingual one of the languages will be your first language and another second.

        •  

          @srr:

          Please learn to read.

          Some people really can't speak/write English to save their life, despite growing up in an English speaking family and growing up in Aust.

          My comment was not about English as second language people.

        •  

          @AddNinja: It certainly offends me. As a migrant myself I'm appalled at the extremely poor quality of communications we so often see in non native English speakers. Personally I think that it's more to do with laziness.

        • +1 vote

          @srr: If you learn two languages simultaneously then one won't necessarily be your second language. I know a few people from Quebec who learnt French and English at the same time and are equally fluent in both.

          Though this entire conversation is absurd. Correcting people's grammar is perfectly acceptable. If they already know it and get upset at corrections they should try harder. If they don't know it they should take the opportunity to improve.

    •  

      The buggers are here to fix the grammer mistakes.

    • +2 votes

      I understood it perfectly - the argument was very sound even though some grammar mistakes were made.

      •  

        Poor grammar generally isn't excused by the message being conveyed, especially not in a corporate environment.

    •  

      Can you correct his grammar so that he would realise his mistakes?

  • +29 votes

    boss seems like a (profanity)

  • +15 votes

    It absolutely depends on the level of your position. At grad/junior level I would not expect you to work autonomously but as you progress I would.

    • +2 votes

      It's mid-senior level, however I'm new to this job.

      • +35 votes

        Mid-senior? Then I would expect a high degree of autonomy, to the extent that you should be presenting results and possibly even a paper to your boss. I would expect you to have enough confidence in your work to defend it to me if I question it.

        • +1 vote

          Sorry I'm a bit confused, by mid-senior, I mean middle of Junior and Senior, is this what you meant too?

          Then, secondly, is this what manager would normally expect from a person from day one of the job?

        • +10 votes

          @fm: What is your title? Maybe that will help us determine your level.

          is this what manager would normally expect from a person from day one of the job

          Well to be fair, no not from day one. Day 30+… yes. But I suppose it depends on what the role description was and how you presented yourself in the interview. Did you come across as someone who was 100% capable and had performed similar tasks elsewhere?

        • +22 votes

          @fm:
          As a bank analyst, you'd be on at least 100k (closer to 140k on the eastern seaboard) … that comes with an expectation of autonomy

        •  

          @tomclancy: to be honest, I don't remember the interview anymore. All I remember was they didn't ask much question, and the interview was done deal from the start, which is a surprise to me.

          I always try to sell myself as capable. If asked if I had performed a certain task, I answered honestly and give example if I have or haven't, with reference to the person who I was doing it with.
          If I can't, then I said I haven't, then I give the closest example that might relate to that.

          Furthermore I always indicate what I don't like doing, or can't do, so that they know exactly what to expect.

        • +7 votes

          @tomclancy: This is true. The first few weeks should be spent understanding your boss's expectations and "getting your feet under the desk".

        •  

          @brazen00: I think based on your comments above, I may have made a mistake during the start of this job, which is maybe a little too late to be fixed now.

          For some context, I have been on this job for almost 9 months. Up to 6 months, they didn't tell me anything wrong with how I do my job. The only thing that change is the way they treated me. As in they stopped smiling or looking at me, stop talking to me, treat me as if I'm no longer wanted around. And for the life of me, I have no idea why. If I have to make some guesses, they are probably illegal but I have no proofs.

          Then recently as said above, my boss told me to find a new role.

        • +4 votes

          @fm: It's never too late.

          If you really want the job then show it. Maybe ask teammates/peers for their help in understanding the tasks, by the sounds of it I wouldn't go back asking your boss again. Try to get a genuine understanding of your duties so that in one month from now you are 100% autonomous. In 6 months when you are doing them blindfolded then approach your boss to take some of their duties away from them. Your boss will think you are a star performer.

          Alternatively, if you don't want the job then start looking elsewhere asap. There is no point in elongating the pain both yourself and your bosses are feeling

        •  

          @tomclancy: That's the plan, while trying to find a new job.
          I just feel gutted not knowing what happened. I posted this here to learn what I can do better next time.

        • +3 votes

          @fm:

          I just feel gutted not knowing what happened. I posted this here to learn what I can do better next time.

          Maybe it wasn't you. Maybe it was. You should be in the best position to know the answer. I've worked as a bank analyst and some people can be pr!cks, but not all. Maybe you got a dud boss. Doesn't really matter if you don't plan on staying there. Move on with your life and try to be happy elsewhere.

          Oh, and try to reduce your time spent on OzBargain during work hours :)

        • +3 votes

          @weezlebub:

          As a bank analyst, you'd be on at least 100k (closer to 140k on the eastern seaboard)

          Not really - they range from $60-$100K nowadays for a general analyst, unless there's a unique skill that's required for the role.

        •  

          @bobbified: I have to agree with weezlebub. $100k+ minimum for a mid-level bank analyst. $60k is grad level. Certainly at the bank I worked for.

        • +1 vote

          @tomclancy:

          The last bank I worked at (less than a year ago) was one of the big 4 - we had a range of "analysts" from admin-analysts to senior analysts.

          All the salary ranges were published on the intranet.

          Administration analysts were on the low end of the scale from $60-$75k. Mid-level business analysts were between $65-$95K and Senior analysts started at $90K and maxed out at $130K (these are packages, including super).

          The senior analyst salaries were meant to be tied to "market rates", but the internal band that the senior analyst falls into tops out at $130K. The next internal band after that was Manager-level.

          Being employed as a contractor obviously meant higher rates.

          Weird, because I've jumped from bank to bank and the highest I've had was ANZ (I don't mind naming them because it's not a bad thing) and as a senior analyst the pay was only 10% higher.

        • +1 vote

          @fm:

          Do you work for Westpac?

        • +2 votes

          @tomclancy:

          Oh, and try to reduce your time spent on OzBargain during work hours :)

          What else is there to do?

          We're professionals!

        • +5 votes

          @Scrooge McDuck: Did his boss buy a high yield investment around $80k?

        • +25 votes

          @fm:

          Mate - I'll be completely honest with you…

          I have been fired from 5 different jobs in my lifetime. Last year alone I had 7 different jobs.

          I have finally found a job in a large company with 10 HR people and no more BS that I love - and going through tough times and many many different jobs to get there was the best thing I did - and now I am highly valued team member and have the full backing of other people in the company and go out of my way to do some great work for them because they show their appreciation - I even won awards.

          It's all about the company attitude, atmosphere and management style. From company to company having my work questioned - to doing pretty much the same work and getting awards within my probation period.

          One thing I will say - you eventually learn to cover your arse in a lot of cases where the company is happy to dish out criticism to drive performance instead of maximising encouragement and appreciation - which actually work much better if performance drive is really in their interest.

          The biggest problem with your company is that they are actually not allowed to ask you to leave. They MUST under fair work discuss the issue at hand and provide you a chance to do better under a program.

          Just like you - when I have my performance questioned - I simply say "I fully take on board your criticism - however in order to get better you must give me precise examples of when this occurred - why it wasn't good enough and what I should have done better"

          If they can't give you examples (which happened to me many times) I simply say "It's very difficult to take on board such a criticism which I take very seriously when you can't give me precise examples or tell me what exactly was bad about it and what should have been done better"

          Companies like this have absolutely no backbone. I would start looking for a new job and cover your arse in every way possible and if they really want you to leave they will need to make you redundant and pay you out.

        • -2 votes

          @bobbified:
          Maybe OP is on a 457?

        • +3 votes

          @fm:

          The only thing that change is the way they treated me. As in they stopped smiling or looking at me, stop talking to me, treat me as if I'm no longer wanted around. And for the life of me, I have no idea why.

          sounds like it is not how you perform in your role. Its more about your personality and attitude towards others. You have pissed someone off and you are now on the outside especially if people are treating you differently, there is no coming back.

          If you dont know why, it could be simple as doing someone elses task for them and screwing it up, it could even be over wages disparity. You truly will not know and you have not been around long enough to build rapport with someone that may tell you

          Time to look for a new job mate

        • +2 votes

          @tomclancy: haha not at the one i work at! Everyone in back/middle office is an "analyst" and most wouldn't make over $70k.

        • +1 vote

          @fm:

          :( I feel like maybe your team has run out of budget?

          Is there enough work for you? If you are being proactive and staying past 5 to maybe 6 or 7 I don't see how there can be a problem. Do you click with the rest of your team? Regardless they would generally need to put you on a performance plan so that still gives you time.

          Banks are usually pretty stable unless there are budget shifts.

        • +1 vote

          @bobbified:
          Interesting thought …
          I'm currently f/t perm in Adelaide at 95k …
          Canberra and Newcastle were both ~160k as a contractor …

          I'd be looking at 160k + to go back to the eastern seaboard and they're still calling me for roles (being home and permanent is great though) … maybe that's more to do with the 10 years experience across IT & Finance though??

        •  

          @floppydesk:
          His boss bought a high yield investment based on OP's analysis. Suddenly no one in the office wants to know him. Strange.

        • +1 vote

          @tomclancy: 'Banking' is a pretty broad term… it could be commercial, private, retail… huge differences in salary for 'analyst' which is also vague.

      • +7 votes

        Mid-senior level in a bank? You really should be capable of working autonomously by now.

        At that level not only should you be doing your own work autonomously but if you want to progress then you need to start taking duties away from your boss as well.

      • +34 votes

        I'm new to this job.

        I have been on this job for almost 9 months.

        ¬_¬

        •  

          That's still pretty new. Still has the gift wrap on it
          Some jobs you're considered 'new' until you've done several years

        •  

          @Magpye:

          Knife goes in, guts come out…

        •  

          @Scrooge McDuck: I had no idea what the hell you were talking about until I googled it. Must've missed that episode

        •  

          @Magpye:

          Thanks Mr. Exposition!

        •  

          @Scrooge McDuck: My pleasure, DuckFace

        •  

          the alienating treatment happens from when I was 3 Months, I think that is fairly new. And since then job has become so damn hard.

          I asked why at 6 months, they tell me nothing, nothing personal, they fault my performance. But this is told at 6 months!! What happen at the past three months?? And then 2 months later I was told it's my fault, I shouldn't have asked so many questions.

        •  

          @Magpye:
          Nah, current job was sit in on half a day of call center induction (they had 2 weeks of induction) … end of first week, I was handing over my first deliverables

        •  

          @fm:

          This, from @Michegianni above - "when I have my performance questioned - I simply say ; I fully take on board your criticism - however in order to get better you must give me precise examples of when this occurred - why it wasn't good enough and what I should have done better"

          If they can't give you examples (which happened to me many times) I simply say "It's very difficult to take on board such a criticism which I take very seriously when you can't give me precise examples or tell me what exactly was bad about it and what should have been done better"

          Companies like this have absolutely no backbone. I would start looking for a new job and cover your arse in every way possible and if they really want you to leave they will need to make you redundant and pay you out."

          Your boss looks like an ass from here.

          If I were in your shoes I'd be recording my conversations with my boss.

  •  

    Is this the boss you report to directly?
    How long have you been in this role for? If you just started, did you over-sell yourself in an interview?

    Are you the analyst that has set day-to-day tasks or are you on different projects?

    You may need to speak to your peers who work in the same team to see what your boss actually expects.

    More importantly, I think you've got to work out whether it's actually your work that your boss doesn't like or whether it's really something else.

    Worst case, there's Human Resources or his boss that you might be able to speak to if you think you're being untreated fairly.

  • +10 votes

    A: Your boss wants you to leave.

    I can't judge as I haven't spoken to your boss yet.

  • +26 votes

    That is not satisfactory behaviour from a manager. He should be setting clear guidelines as to what he wants delivered, even if he doesn't tell you how to deliver it. Have you had a chat to your fellow employees to see if they have some ideas on this guys behaviour and how they deal with it; they may have some work arounds for you. He just might be trying to get rid of you because he doesn't like you. If he is already trying to sack you there probably isn't any downside to go to HR and see if you can get a hearing from them. (Make sure you take notes on every interaction you have with him to document the interaction. You are going to need to go in with a prepared case).

    I've worked for one of the big 4 in the past and this is not standard management behaviour in those organisations; he doesn't get to say you are no longer wanted that is the organisations decision. If this comes to light he might be the one that is in trouble for bullying behaviour. At the very least you can get this documented by HR for future reference. HR might also be able to help you with other opportunities in the organisation so you don't have to deal with this particular manager.

    Best of Luck.

    • +1 vote

      Thanks mate, this is the most helpful comment today.
      For the moment, while looking for opportunities, I just try to do my best at the job.

    • -6 votes

      This is some good advice re: HR, but never met someone who was being treated poorly at work because 'someone doesn't like them'. My experience is that it has always been a performance issue. And some people (sounds like @mx's boss), are bad performance managers and get frustrated - instead of trying to resolve the issue.

      • +2 votes

        You are lucky, I've seen this quite a bit; not against me but other people certainly. It just depends on how well they can canceal it and how powerless the person is they are picking on.

        •  

          Must have been - not saying that it doesn't happen! Amazing I get down voted by talking about my experience… Which I made pretty clear!

        •  

          @rallaghan: Wasn't me that downvoted you. However, I suspect, a number of us have seen the "petty manager syndrome" and there might be limited things you can do - particularly if the manager is being protected by someone higher in the organisation. You usually only get rid of that sort of manager when the person further up goes elsewhere or you find somewhere else to go yourself. I have been instrumental in hauling a few people out of bad situations by pleading their case to managers in another part of the company. Funnily enough when they aren't being beaten up all the time they flourish and become a great asset.

        • +1 vote

          @rallaghan: i would say you are getting down voted because half the managers out there aren't worth there salt and the fact that you gave gone through life so far without seeing this is a miracle

      • +3 votes

        I have seen it countless times.

        Workplaces can be just like school yards at times. I just got over it all and just do my job and be polite to everyone. Couldn't be arsed being social with anyone anymore. Everyone respects me and no more bullshit to deal with :)

  • +2 votes

    I think you need to provide the specific issue that he said you didn't do and could have done better. Hard to judge if he is just a ~!@#$ without any context.

  • +54 votes

    What Do My Boss Want?

    Your $80k High Yielding car.

  • +6 votes

    Have you been placed on a PIP (Performance Improvement Program)? Generally this is the first official action taken by a manager in a corporate when they are having issues with an employee's performance. Are your peers in the same boat? Is the quality of grammar in this post a reflection of the quality of your work?

    You should have an HR representative. Organise a meeting as soon as possible so that you can clear the air.

    •  

      Agreed that a proper 'performance MGMT' program needs to happen first. The manager is obviously just hoping that the OP moves on.

  • +13 votes

    How do I make some sense to this guy?

    By improving your communication skills. Your English/sentence structure is incoherent, I couldn't be surprised if your colleagues have trouble understanding what you are trying to say.

    • +1 vote

      I've seen senior managers with even worse English absolutely prosper. Communication might be part of his problem but we don't have enough to go on to work out whether it's something he has done/hasn't done or if it's the boss that's being the jerk or if the two just can't get along. We don't know the organisational politics. We don't know much at all.

      Speaking to HR, looking for a transfer, speaking to your boss' boss, looking for another job outside the company are all options OP should be examining.

      If your immediate boss is unwilling to be helpful in letting you know how you are failing to meet expectations the manager is also complicit and future doesn't look at all promising for the current role.

    •  

      You have a point but I think your interpretation of "incoherent" is extreme, if you are truly having that much of a problem understanding the posts then perhaps OP's writing style isn't the issue.

      If I were to take a guess, OP seems to have a non native English speaking background based on the writing style and there are far more constructive ways to suggest they could better their English skills without making them feel like they have no English ability.

      This springs to mind https://youtu.be/r35OsSLfy5o?t=14s

  • +3 votes

    This is why you shouldn't lie on your resume or in job interviews.

    "mid-senior level" that you can't do without hand holding, what a waste of your employers time.

    • +2 votes

      I'm sorry, but I do not lie in resume or job interview, everything is completely as is. Sometimes I even told them something that they do not ask.

      I agree with you that people should never lie in CV or interview, it will bite them back, hard!

      • -5 votes

        I'm sorry, but I do not lie in my resume nor job interviews, everything is completely as it is. Sometimes I even tell them something that they do not ask.

        I agree with you that people should never lie in their CVs or interviews, it will bite them back, hard!

        I've fixed your grammar, but your word choice and sentence structure are lacking too.

  1. Baysew on 20/03/2017 - 11:28
  2. brazen00 on 20/03/2017 - 11:27
  3. Scrooge McDuck on 20/03/2017 - 15:53
  4. mskeggs on 20/03/2017 - 11:49
  5. tuzii on 20/03/2017 - 11:08
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