Neighbour Complaining about Noise. Strata Living

Feel like theres no route to go from here besides being compelled to give in and move away.

Been renting an apartment for the past 3 years and the neighbour in the level below us just moved in and recently has been comming up to our doors every single day for the past month and sometimes multiple times a day telling us he can hear noise generated by our heavy footed walking. Obviously after a first few times of his complaint, we try to accomodate. But even then, he still complain when we did absolutely nothing.

We have 2 small chihuahuas living in our apartment which was allowed in by our agent at the time we moved in. Now after 6 months of him comming to our doors every day, sometimes 11pm at night when we were sleeping, we decided to ignore him. But in doing so, he turned furious and began threatening us to open doors by saying "you better watch your back" (in chinese) and "when you come out, i'm gona bash you" (in chinese).

Obviously the police were called and they told the neighbour he is not allowed to come up here to harass anymore otherwise he'll get charged. So that stopped him.

However, we just received a message from our agent who got a letter sent to them by strata saying there will be a new no-dog policy and a letter from the neighbour informing us that we need to get rid of the dogs by 15/6 otherwise he will call tribunal and police to witness that we violate this new no-dog policy.

Is there any thing we can do there? Seems like theres no path to go but to move. Can strata suddenly make a policy like that? Our agent is in discussion with strata at the moment. Please help fellow ozbargainer.


UPDATE:
Thought I might give an update. Well not really of an update because things have stagnated. Not getting any responses back from owners corp or agent. And still waiting.

The guy downstairs after receiving a warning from the police to not come up again to harass us, just started banging on walls every now and then. He would bang walls and ceiling @ 11pm every time some sort of noise were created. Worse is, he would bang when my same-level-neighbour would make some noise. We asked the people 2 levels below us to report them to owners corp, but everythings moving so slow. Its just unbearable and fighting a pointless battle. Considering to move. Once we found a place to move, ahhhhh helllll nawwwww mayne all hell will break lose on the floor.

Comments

  • +15

    Damn, thats some shithouse luck. The guy downstairs sounds like a real piece of work. Sadly moving is probably the only real option here. Make someone else deal with the neighbour from hell and move on with your life.

    • +1

      :/

    • Just ignore, seems to be the tenant loves attention. Must be a real mums boy. Maybe seek legal advice. Possibly mentally ill.

    • Sadly I agree, just moved because of awful neighbours myself.

  • +31

    They cant enforce a 5 day no dog policy so even if the terms changed it would take months to kick in

    the tribunal will take another 3-6 months if not longer and depending on the state you are in you might be protected - you should speak to tenants association and a lawyer first instead of ozbargain

    • +1

      NSW state. legalaid?

      • http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/About_us/Contact_us.pa…?

        i think legalaid with free legal representation only works in criminal cases they can offer advice

        • +1

          I don't know about legal representation but you can definitely get free legal advice from legal aid. Give them a call and book an appointment. But maybe better first to see what fair trading says as they may resolve this issue for you.

      • +4

        Just a thought, is it possible the douche bag neighbour wrote that letter?
        Again they cant just make a new policy up and enforce immediately

  • +1

    I don't know the legalities, but I'd hope the pet rule wouldn't be retrospective.

    I guess weigh up how much you like the place/willing to fight it, versus moving out to avoid the headache.

    • i'm willing to fight it. But im lost to what can be done.

      • Hopefully some of the ideas posted here help. All the best!

  • +26

    1) Log everything the new ass of a neighbour does.

    2) Contact (or get your agent to) strata company and ask for proof that the strata council of owners have indeed held an EGM or some sort of meeting where this new by-law has been agreed upon and passed. If no moved motion exists. Continue to live where you are.

    3) Police do not get involved with by-law breaches. That is an empty threat.

    • I have a question for (2), do owners corp need to hold an EGM to have this new policy or is it the case that owners corp can impose initially only to be refused when >25% object to it.

      • +5

        Bylaw change needs special resolution, special resolution needs to be passed by a 75% majority at a properly convened general meeting.

      • +6

        To change a bylaw they would need to hold an EGM, they can't enforce any bylaw before it's been passed.

        Is it possible that the bylaw has always been there but they haven't been enforcing it? You should have been given a copy of the bylaws when you first moved in.

        If they did pass a new bylaw it probably couldn't be retrospective, so if you had permission to keep your dogs they couldn't make you remove them but they could stop you getting a new dog.

        • +13

          Is that you, Louis Litt?

        • 99% sure the no pets bylaw didnt exist 3 years ago when we moved in.

        • -2

          @Thenarrator:

          And the 1% is?

  • Seems harsh but I don't think it will stand.

  • +18

    Are you sure the letter about the new no-dog policy is actually from the strata? Seems interesting the neighbour also sent you a letter about it so quickly.

    Also the tribunal and police will laugh in his face if he calls them to try and enforce strata rules.

    • +1

      The letter is from strata that was sent to our agent who sent it to us. Most likely neighbour complained to strata who gave in to the complaint and decided to make this new bylaw. The neighbour knew the new bylaw and probably send us a letter telling us to enforce it or else…

      • +4

        So you're saying the new by-law is legit?

        Best course of Action:
        Grab a folder, a paper Pad, and a Pen.

        Go door to door to all your neighbours except him. Tell them about the situation, and ask them if you having a dog is a problem to them, and if so; why?

        You'll probably find that majority neighbours won't care, so they will be happy to sign their Unit Number, Name, and Signature on the pad stating they aren't affected by your dogs.

        Do the neighbours close to the annoying one last so they don't come out and sabotage your signature collection.

        Then question the Strata, they probably included the new by-laws without proper protocol (+50% or +75% majority rule). So then you can give a COPY of the signature collection. Tell them the new by-law is incorrect, and they Strata will have to embarrassingly Apologize to all the tenants and issue a Redaction Notice. Just have some bollocks, don't falter, don't whimper when you are talking. Stand your ground, if need, have someone else with you for support.

        Worse comes to worse, you can move out after 2 months, as that is "fair" time to relocate.

        • +1

          And in the meantime, personally, would love to try and exercising skipping rope at your place for the next two months. What's your address OP?

  • +2

    I'd be worried, he might have your dogs for dinner j.k.
    Move away and rent a house

    • +1

      This ^ month's most controversial comment.

  • +3

    Bikies

    • Armed with eneloops!

    • beat me to it…

  • +32

    I would buy a drum set.

    • -3

      Chinese New Year in June :)

      Year of the Dogs ….. nah,that was last year.

    • +1

      Yeah, kick it up a notch and get HIM to move out…

      • Yeah, throw a leaving party or 10 before you leave ;)

  • +1

    If the strata approved you having the dogs (And that is a big IF) then it is hard to see that it will be able to ban them retrospectively. It should only be for future approvals. The letting agent can only approve it 'as far as the owner is concerned'. He cannot approve it on behalf of the Strata, unless he is managing the whole strata.
    I had a neighbour who tried to bully me similarly for many things. They were above my apartment, and complained on an ongoing basis including of me running a bath at night. - psychological warfare.

    • yeah i see. It seems to be the case that the agent said yes but hadnt got actual written permission from strata. And now strata says no pets suddenly. Can strata make new bylaws out of thin air? or does it need to be agreed by majority each time?

      • +2

        I think that most things are automatically not allowed 'without permission'. However they can create bylaws 'to allow' something, eg 'keeping of dog' but following the creation of this bylaw each individual case still must be approved. But if there is a bylaw allowing it, then approval is a simple process. Stratas work slowly, and so, if dogs are prohibited and you are in contravention of this, then I would tell them that you are in the process of moving. And then I would move within, say, about 6 months. How can anyone get rid of a beloved member of their family? It is not up to the letting agent to get permission from the body corporate. That obligation falls to the occupier.

        • so the renter should contact strata and apply directly?

        • @Thenarrator: Correct. You need 2 permissions - 1 from the owner, and 1 from the strata.

        • +1

          @Peck: Are you sure?

          Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the agent arranges everything.

          The tenancy contract is with the agent/owner. If the owner mistakenly granted permission contrary to strata, they'd still be liable to the contract (so the problem the owner-strata). Tenant should be given more than sufficient time to vacate.

        • @lolbbq: Just my opinion - I'm no expert. But I have trouble conceiving that an owner would ever go through all of the hassle of seeking Body Corporate permission for a tenant to have dogs.

        • @Peck:
          Same, I'm not too sure either. What you said makes sense but its probably the owner's responsibility to ensure that the property is advertised and contracted to the tenant correctly.

          Its kind of like saying "lawn maintenance included" but for some reason (beyond the owner's control), lawn maintenance cannot be included. Interesting case on how it it would be enforced (if lawn maintenance is for some reason physically impossible for the owner to organize the lawn mowing). It would be up to negotiation then. I suppose it depends who has more to lose here, which in this case, is the tenant.

          Which is probably another reason why there are so little pet friendly places around.

        • @Peck: It happened in my strata for a prospective tenant. They were interested in adopting a puppy and needed certainty that they could have it before signing a lease. The owner applied to have a dog on their lot.

  • +6

    If the strata has in fact changed the rules you can use all sorts of legal methods to delay it's implementation - this is a civil matter the police will not become involved.

    Most lawyers give a free first consult where you can learn what your options are - the more you are willing to pay, the more options you have. As an example taking out an AVO will set you back $6-8000.

    Personally I think life is way to short and you need to pick your battles. Ask the agent to help you look for a new place and make the idiot neighbours life hell in the mean time. Put death metal on a loop, face the speakers down and go out - have it loud enough to hear but not loud enough for the cops to take action.

    It is not unlawful in NSW to covertly record someone if you are using it to get an AVO - speak to your lawyer about this.

    • +1 for death metal.

      • +6

        I used death metal to stop neighbours that used to love having a violent domestic every second night. It was like training a dog every time they'd start up, within seconds, I had deafening amounts of guttural German and Norwegian metal blasting through their house.

        They weren't going to call the cops as they were just as likely to talk themselves into the watch house. Within a couple of weeks they started going out to have their domestics and in two months they were gone.

        It helps that I'm into Prog Metal myself.

        • +1

          Hahah that's awesome. Black metal for me but same effect nonetheless.

  • +9

    I hope you informed the strata of the previous history of harrassment leading to police attendance by this neighbour.

    • Yeah i'd be following the harassment line of thinking. From what you wrote in the OP, you'd almost get a restraining order….

  • might be time to put some speakers face down on the floor and play a bad CD song on repeat every time ur not home so it doesn't drive u crazy.

    • +25

      if im forced to move out, i plan to stomp the ground every hr im home and do all sorts of star jumps as much as i can before i leave.

      • +10

        Pick up and drop something heavy a few times a day.
        I had trouble with downstairs neighbour some years ago. Every noise in the 6 apartment building was blamed on me. I was moving at the end of the lease so when I got home from work early in the morning, I would pick up and drop a lounge chair around 1am :)

        • +3

          Jar of marbles on a tiled floor…

          Edit: beaten by quite a bit…

        • I don't know why but I think I wouldn't mind living under you haha

        • +1

          Pick up and drop something heavy a few times a day.

          Get in touch with your local Olympic weightlifting club and volunteer to host their next meet(s) in your apartment.

        • @Martijn:

          I'd probably do a sealed soft bag of marbles.

          You can repeat it a lot quicker and don't have to pick them up.

      • +5

        If your house is tiled. Walk around in a pair of high heeled shoes with preferably steel heel tips. The noise beneath from these are incredible.

        • +7

          Do you want him to dress in 'drag' too :))

        • +3

          dropping marbles might be an easier option….

        • Take up tap dancing.

      • +11

        I once was in an apartment block and the guy next door went away for two weeks and his alarm clock went off at 430am (to get him up for the flight) everyday. For 30 mins. For 2 weeks.

      • +2

        I have been through this and in hindsight I thought that I reacted to their email or letters which made it more nuisance for me as some people on strata have nothing to do and any activity of such sort brings a motive in their mundane life.

        So consider if you can just forget about replying for few weeks and c how it goes !

    • might be time to put some speakers face down on the floor and play a bad CD song on repeat every time ur not home so it doesn't drive u crazy.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0Sd86VC7fw&t=7

  • +4

    Perhaps the agent is now breaching the original contract with you regarding the dogs. You could try getting the agent to find a new place for you at no cost? (Then you will be also away from the neighbour).

  • +4

    I would contact the tenants union and see what you can do.

    https://tenants.org.au/?gclid=CNnQ7L_ktNQCFRAKKgodv8gGRw

    I would also be explaining to both the tenants union and the strata title people the history of harrassment and threats the buy below you has subjected you to. This may give you something you can use against both the strata title guys and the guy below.

  • +1

    Feel sorry for you but I guess Sydney market is a bit different from Brisbane. Here's my two-cents.
    1) When you moved in 3-years ago, dogs were allowed, now they have a new rule/by-law or something. First check the legality of this piece of "law". If indeed it is true, you might be able to get out of the lease without breaking-lease. Once you start this, hope your PM/Owner will wake-up a bit.
    2) The neighbour downstairs: are they Owners or Tenants? Either way, speak with the Onsite Manager or Strata Manager. Your previous neighbours never complained and they will be your witness/support.
    3) Coming to you a few times a day is certainly a harassment. Do not be afraid to report formally about you being harassed/bullied. If they are Owners, the Onsite Manager and/or Strata Manager can handle this. If they are Tenants, then their PM and the Owner need to be notified.

    • +3

      I think that the op is saying that the Owner's letting Agent gave them permission. This is a bit different from having permission from the body corporate.

  • Nek minute vermain in the ceiling void

  • +5

    It's time for you to take up tap dancing.

    • Or new Rock Band drum set.

  • Before doing anything else, contact the previous tenant that lived in the apartment under the one you are renting to see if their complaint is genuine.

    Maybe, the new tenant is exaggerating or even lying or the apartment complex is simply poorly constructed.

  • -4

    Sounds like your neighbour should bugger off back to where he originally came from!

    • +3

      His mum?

    • +3

      No need to be a racist to solve strata matters

  • +2

    1) Buy a used washing machine. Run it off-balance
    2) Start a new fitness regime. Buy weights. Include lots of jump jacks and running on the spot
    3) House parties
    4) Practice basketball at home
    5) Parade boots or soccer boots with metal cleats
    6) Get a used speakers and your choice of media player (there are some usb-mp3 stereo sets), point speakers to the floor, play whatever you feel like (drop dat bass)

    • Deadlifts?

      • I see your deadlift and raise you clean and jerk.

    • I must say, basketball is the way to go. So f'in annoying and theres really stuff all you can do about it.

  • +1

    If basic walking is enough to make noise below then tough luck, he brought/rented a shit apartment.

    • +1

      Exactly this. I was renting an apartment in an older block with wooden floors and had the people below us come up to complain regularly. They once called in a noise complaint to the police over music being played from two dinky logitech PC speakers at 8pm. Quiet apartment / Cheap rent - pick one.

  • +1

    The letter from the real estate company who manages the apartment on behalf of the owner and the one that you've rented - should have bee in contact with the Body Corporate to have the authority to send out the letter about no dogs. AND the Body Corporate is the only one that has the right to set the date for such a new by-law to come into place. So the date isn't something that you neighbour beneath you informs you about.

    One suspects that the neighbour from below is the agitator here and perhaps might have the same property management company as you (you referred to them as 'Strata") and so if he has made a complaint through the Strata company - then they are the middle man responding to him. They have no power unless instructed by the owner or the Body Corporate. You need to ask for evidence of such a new by law as if effects you and your pets - and particularly if you have a lease that has states agreement (and I hope that you do have) to pets being kept in your apartment.

    It costs additional funds for a body corporate to call a snap Extra Ordinary Meeting - so it needs to be a pretty important issue. Unless of course all this coincides with their normal meeting schedule - often quarterly if it is a body corporate for a large apartment complex, there is a certain amount of avoidance to run an EMG.

    I'd get in first to the RTA in NSW seeking advice from them and let him know in writing that you have sought legal advice, RTA consultation, and any other numbers of organisations - as he is just using fear tactics to break you down.

    Ummm - you were there first and you haven't had a single complaint against you in the past 3 years. Let him know this in your letter as well.

    • Um.. I think youre confusing me. I got a letter from the leasing agent aka property manager which is also the same letter from the bodycorporate (strata) to the property manager. So i think this is proof of the new bylaw in itself? since the letter came directly from the body corporate.

      • As many has mentioned, the body corp has to meet to make a new by law. If due process has been skipped, call them out on it. Any further changes to the bylaw against your favour can be scrutinised.

        As for the neighbour, you can set up a recording camera in your doorbell/door peep, then continue living your life pre new neighbours. Any further confrontation will probably land your neighbour in very hot water.

        Excersicing an eviction notice in 3 days? You don't need a lawyer to tell you how funny this is. Keep a copy for future laughter. You may very well never receive such absurdity in your lifetime.

  • -1

    Downstairs neighbours are the worst. We wanted to replace our carpet with floorboards (incl. all necessary sound proofing), because my flatmate's wife is highly allergic to carpet, but the bitter old hags vetoed it anyway.

    They also complained about a neighbour's kids and also vetoed their pet guinea pigs being kept within the property grounds. So instead they have to leave the guinea pigs enclosure on the nature strip.

    Some people just complain for the sake of complaining, they have nothing better to do with their time.

    • They may be habitual complainers but I am afraid that allergies or no allergies you cannot just change the flooring of your apartment in a way that makes it noisier without getting it approved and that is basically the case across Australia. That is not an unwarranted complaint.

  • +3

    Firstly ignore the letter from your neighbour.
    Secondly talk to strata about your options re having pets. If the by-laws have been changed then apply to see if they can allow your pet.
    If the cannot allow pet as mentioned above talk to agent to see if they can help find you a new place.

    I know alot of the playing loud music/basket ball to make noise is mentioned in jest but refrain from antagonising your downstairs neighbour as it will give him real reasons to complain about you. If he physically or verbally threatens you again just report him to the police again and hopefully he gets charged.

    Good luck

  • +1

    Be sure to leave some parting 'gifts' from your chihuahuas on their door handles and in their mailbox if you decide to move out.

  • Do you even have a copy of the bylaws?!
    Get a copy and read first.

    • I will get a copy. My next question would be if the bylaw I have in my hand doesnt mention anything about pets, can strata just whip up a new one on the spot and add to it to the list ?

      • +3

        A by-law can't be amended on the spot, no. By-laws can be amended by special resolution passed at a duly convened general meeting of the owners corporation and then any changes must be lodged with the Registrar General within 6 months, so it is unlikely by-laws will be changed on a whim of any one owner.

        There should be a noticeboard somewhere on the property that all strata notices are put on. Also, if more than half the properties in the strata are tenanted then you should be invited to elect a tenant representative to the strata committee. Even if the by-laws disallows pets and you are in breach then the strata must contact you to notify you of the breach (which they appear to have done) if the breach continues then the strata can then serve a 'Notice to Comply with a By-Law' however this notice can't be given without a majority vote at a meeting of the owners and this notice must be issued before any further action can be taken (so your neighbour is full of it)

        It could be that the By-law of no pets was always there and your neighbour just put in a complaint, however if this is the case and your tenancy agreement states that you can have pets then I would hit the owner of your home for the full cost of moving.

        I can certainly understand all the revenge suggestions but they won't help your cause and could antagonise other owners/tenants.

        Good luck. Sometimes people just suck.

      • +2

        They didn't give you copy? That sounds dodgy.
        I'm pretty sure, if they are changing by-laws, they have to give a copy to every single owner and inhabitant.

        Can't just make new rules and not tell anyone. How are people supposed to stick to them otherwise?
        Quite possible that the agent is just making it up to get rid of you.

        Also, do you have anything in writing about you being allowed to have dogs?

        Read what it says, read what exactly the by-law says and see how they work together.

  • Buy a drum set or indoor basketball hoop……..
    Then prepare to arrange for moving out.

  • +1

    Don't overthink the issue. You are dealing with a bully, which in the real world have minimal rights.

    He may have gone out of his way to make your life difficult with some pieces of paper, but it's not the be all and end all.

    You need to do a bit more work getting to know your other neighbours and understanding how the building works including the strata. Stand up for yourself when needed, but don't complain too much about him, more importantly i would demonstrate to other neighbours and strata that you and your pets are great residents for the building (assuming you all are!).

    There are people that result to bullying and they think they have the upper hand because it may have worked for them before. Just ignore it, who is going to enforce a no dog policy if there hadn't been one before (I can assure you not the police). If he's a jerk, eventually everyone including strata will realise this and he'll end up moving on because no one but his mum will listen to his cries.

  • +1

    I note that you are from NSW, however there was a ruling in VCAT in 2016 where the member decided that a blanket ban on pets by body corporate is discriminatory and unenforceable: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-06/tenants-union-welcomes…

    In NSW, the tribunal has power to order removal of a pet if it is causing nuisance to another occupier (regardless of whatever rules your body corporate has). So if your dog has been barking for prolonged periods of time, or at odd hours of the night, that might be enough for the tribunal to order removal of the pet on application by your neighbour.

    However I am not from NSW, so definitely get legal advice from Legal Aid or your local community legal centre.

  • +1

    Make sure you speak in English only and tell them to speak English and not Chinese. Man they always get pissed off at that lol

  • +1

    .However, we just received a message from our agent who got a letter sent to them by strata saying there will be a new no-dog policy and a letter from the neighbour informing us that we need to get rid of the dogs by 15/6 otherwise he will call tribunal and police to witness that we violate this new no-dog policy.

    "there will be a new" = not actually created?

    Ultimately, if this law does come into effect, you should be moving out with the dog as that was part of the lease and they've now breached it.

  • From my understanding of noise laws, then can only complain if noises above talking volume are made over a sustained period of time before 7am and after 9pm on weekdays and before 9am and after 12am on weekends. Footsteps are not problematic, they are going to experience that regardless of who lives there.

    Do you have a copy of your contract? Unless you sign a new contract, your current contract still stands. They can't do anything until the end of your lease, at which point they may choose not to renew your lease. They can't overwrite your existing contract and they can't evict you for having a pet if it wasn't stated on the contract you signed. Talk to a lawyer and they will say the same thing.

    • my contract is with owners property management agent consenting to pets within property. Was I suppose to get separate consent from body corporate allowing pets?

      • +3

        If your contract is with the property management agent then they will have to impose an addition/alteration to your contract. They cannot alter an existing contract as you have signed off that for the given period of time, you are abiding by a contract that allows pets. There is usually an exemptions section of the contract, have a read through that.

        My current property management group is lazy. They spelled my name and my partner's name incorrectly on the contract and copied and pasted it throughout. When I asked them to correct the names, they said that they don't need to. I told them that technically if they don't correct the names, they will have issues if we don't pay rent and they go to debt collectors as there is an issue with the accuracy of their paperwork. After I said that they corrected our details quite quickly.

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