Combined income 350k. Property portfolio at 2.6m. 300k in savings. What is best way to invest further?

Hi there,

My wife and I been very blessed and live in our own house (still paying off mortgage) and currently have all our investments in property only.

I am (obviously) by no means a guru/even moderately clued in when it comes to how to invest money and have heard lots of arguments going both ways for diversifying or keeping on with property.

Personally, I'd prefer to diversify into some sort of fund (that someone else can manage for me cause I'd just do the equivalent of 'putting it all on black'), but part of the reason we are entertaining the idea of buying another house is to get into a good public school zone for our kids to come as my wife is currently pregnant.

Would love to get some opinions from the more investment savvy people on this forum.

Edit: Important information I've forgotten to state, properties are all still being paid off at 20:80 LVR, so a large amount of liability.
Rental income covers a large proportion of interest (whilst the interest rate stays put) but there is some negative gearing going on.
Savings are in offset for home mortgage

Comments

  • Mate

    You are saying 3 investment properties plus a property you are living in and total is $2.6m - doesn't seem to adds up !!

    Where are these properties? And how much you thinking of spending on new property in the catchment for kids?

    • This adds up fine. Not everyone lives in Sydney cbd

      • Sydbey CBD probably 2. Bit of stretch for 4 in 2.6m

  • +1

    With your situation, I think mortgage offset is great. It's a guaranteed net return of ~4%(whatever your mortgage rate is) which grossed up to ~7% (with your tax bracket). Managed fund will return you probably higher but it has associated risks. Also on top of that, you have great access to the cash just in case you need something. Unless you have surplus (ie offset > home loan), i wouldn't think further

  • +4

    fact you are askng people on ozbargain,

    suggest you are too smart for the money you have in your pocket.

    or maybe just a troll who wants attention

  • These same old topics are made with the same old answers.
    Why don't people use the search function.

  • +2

    Hi Oliver , I think you are in quite solid financial ground at the moment.

    The main risk I see in your post so far is high income with low equity in a low interest environment.

    If:
    1) Your wife goes onto maternity leave for 1 year - your combined income will be halved and cash flow can be tightened up very quickly.
    2) Interest rate rises (which already increased by 0.70% this year for my Interest Only loans) , then you will see your cash flow tightened up very quickly too.

    The situation is not ideal if you ended up needing to sell up your property to free your cash flow.

    I would suggest first and foremost is to get income protection and landlord insurance for all the investment properties.
    Then just pay down your non deductible PPOR loan by depositing surplus into the relevant offset account.

    I actually don't think you should diversify your portfolio by investing elsewhere at the moment.
    It is nearly 10 years since GFC and seeing US equity market and global property breaking record each week should send shiver to all investor.
    A correction will come whether it's big or small.
    Sometimes not doing anything is the best move.

    PM me if keen for a chat!

  • Financial Adviser here. What do you expect to gain from posting here?

    We don't know anything about your tolerance towards risk, investment timeframes, superannuation etc.

    People in your position outsource the decision making to a professional and don't receive advice from online forums. There is good advice above (i.e. ETF's) but others are dubious at best, also some ETF's may be more suitable than others. Additionally don't ignore tax effective strategies which you simply can't get here.

    Or go invest in bikies.

    • Financial Adviser here

      What's your qualification?

      • Master of financial planning, B.com and DFP. Work on salary and no commissions.

        • Work on salary and no commissions.

          Does your company get a commission, based on what they sell?

  • +2

    // jelly. :(

  • +1

    invest in a holiday, stop worrying about wealth, you have enough.
    if i had your cash, i wouldn't be working, i would be wiping my but with golden dunny paper, on a flash cruise

    you could donate a bit to the salvo's

  • Would highly recommend salary sacrificing into super as you already have a large emergency fund.
    NOTHING will beat a 22%+ savings in tax based on your income. Also this will help you diversify into shares/ETFs.

  • +1

    Invest in an $80,000 car.

  • Why are people always asking for financial advice here ? Can't you afford a professional financial adviser instead you seek advice of the internet this baffle me seriously

  • +1

    Easy one. Pay off your mortgage. No brainer.

  • +5

    Another "Look, I'm rich, entertain me" post .. no offence intended, just jealous :P

    But in all seriousness OP, you're smarter & richer than probably 90% of the population, so you already have it in you to figure out, OzB hardly the best place for this kinda answer, especially what you're after ..

    Talk to a few financial advisors, usually first session free anyway. Usually from brief talks, you can tell what suit you best ..

    • But in all seriousness OP, you're smarter & richer than probably 90% of the population

      98%, mate. You didn't count dole-bludgers in.

  • Careful, anytime you mention anything above 5 cents, its going to piss off alot of people here and they will try to justify why their existence is better than yours.

  • +1

    Before leveraging yourself up the wazoo with more investments, think about why you're doing this.

    Is it so that you can enjoy life? Can you not already enjoy the finer things in life with a combined income of $350k?

    Is it so your children can be set up for life? Will they be able to appreciate the hard work you've put in for them without experiencing the same hardship? My in-laws' family came here as refugees with literally nothing. Through lots of hard work and life sacrifices they are now very wealthy. They sent their kids to private schools, tutoring and uni. None of them have the same work ethics as their parents and have become the ordinary wage slaves we all are. Every one of them take their status for granted, and some even expect the handout.

    Is it so you can show off and tell everyone you're wealthy? Well then you need the help of a psychiatrist, which you can afford quite easily.

    I'm sure you're doing this for a mix of the first 2 reasons, which I think you should spend more time enjoying life and spend whatever free time you have left with your future kids. They would appreciate the memories with you far more than the Lexus you can buy them for their birthday.

  • Hi,
    Not to sound creepy but like what state are your investment properties in. You would want properties in areas which have promise for the future. As in government investment, like roads, schools, transportation e.t.c. So in NSW, western suburbs. QLD more westerly areas like Morton Bay etc. If you don't want properties then stocks like vts.ax are really good as they are index funds and won't crash. Few bumps but no crash.

  • -4

    Have you considered gold, averages 12% return on your money every year.
    Recently learned paper money is just an currency, apparently all currency goes to zero over time.
    Pm me if you'd like more info.

  • +2

    You're doing very well for yourself. Your financial security is a forgone conclusion unless you monumentally stuff it up (and someone already so well off doesn't normally make that type of mistake).

    So, bearing that in mind… and knowing that finance is no longer a main concern in your life, your next concern should be TIME… and maximising time on this Earth as enjoyably as possible. As they say, you can't take it with you.

    However, from a financial point of view….

    Step 1) Get professional financial advice. Not from a financial planner/advisor who's done the appropriate TAFE course, a proper Accountant with real tertiary qualifications and knowledge.

    Step 2) When you do Step 1 (mandatory), and in careful consideration of what they have to say, consider the following. Whilst you've minimised your tax outgoings (very important with that amount of income!), you need to reconsider having all your investment dollars in a very limited pool. Property (and specifically large holdings in just a few local properties) is a much higher risk than needs to be.

    You can still invest in property, but diversifying that risk over many properties (just smaller chunks) is far less risky. I'm talking about units in property trusts. You purchase them like shares (in fact they are 'shares') but they are invested in property (not companies). Further to that, having some money in shares (both local and international) is also a good strategy.

    In a nutshell- spread the risk/reward portion over many smaller investments, so when your local market falls (and it will fall, just a matter of time), you don't get left high and dry. You've got a pretty high LVR to be honest, but there's no reason you can't move some of that risk into managed property trusts. You can still lend against their value just like you can in direct property, but the difference is you're letting someone who actually knows what they are doing manage it for you… and not just some two-bit rookie property manager who's collecting management fees from you for basically no work.

    Recap: Accountant, then lower your risk by diversifying your investments a lot more. No harm in high leverage you already have… just spread the risk around. All of your biscuits in just a few properties in the same market is how a lot of mum and dad 'investors' get unstuck. Invest in property by all means, but its not the end all be all, and it certainly shouldn't be your only investment vehicle.

  • CRAVE has just re-launched
    pls pump it to the moon
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1964765.0

  • :-(

  • One word ; hummus

  • +3

    Hello nice to meet you, I'm poor

    • +2

      Have a plus-vote.

  • Invest in a vending machine business or laundromat business. Requires very little effort and they're also low maintenance.

  • A GREAT SUCCESS STORY. you need to learn about risk and return and the various theories which exist and contradict each other. It may be useful to find some investments which will cushion you in case the property market is overvalued. some say it is due for a fall. for years. no one times the market perfectly though brokers have special interests to take your money from you. advisers also are conflicted with the models they use. they may be qualified after 5 days it seems! new standards are looming but ethics and morality are a practical issue.

    You have done very well. google the questions you have and try to find authritative resources which you can devote time to understanding.

    Once you learn and accept some theories you may wish to asset allocate to diversify risk away from your concentrated investments in property.
    Fixed interest [active] funds exist but you must reserch them to find the ONE in oz which will not make you lose money and give better than bank interest.

    risk management is the key.
    inflation, macro events and the very long term focus are useful to shift your risk return prespective.

    a small business may also be good.
    research everything and do not rely on conflicted 'experts' who only want your money.

    for the moment, it may be wise to sell in overvalued markets.
    and move funds to safer ones.

    currency and the AUD local economy may suffer compare to the world markets.
    local bias needs to be diversified away.

    all the best.
    my views are 'without prejudice' opinion only.

  • +2

    I haven't seen any responses here asking the obvious - why don't you reduce debt?

    From my experience, debt is the main thing that kills people financially. What if something happens to you or your wife and you don't have that kind of income anymore - how would you service the debt and pay for your child's upbringing?

    If you were to do so, paying off your mortgage on the home you live in first makes sense (as the interest is not tax deductible) and then start on the debt on the investment properties (while the debt is tax deductible, it is still an expense).

    This is the lowest risk option.

    You should really be seeking advice from a professional. Find an independent financial adviser - one who is not affiliated or licenced through AMP, CBA, NAB, ANZ, Westpac or Macquarie (otherwise you will just be getting sold their products). Also, do not seek advice through a broker as they will just want to sell you a portfolio of shares that they change regularly to get brokerage.

    • I remember a while back I read an article that mentioned that the number of 'truly' independent financial advisers in Australia was something like 5!!! Wish I could dig up the article.

      • Well, whether advisers can be called 'independent' all comes down to the meaning which can get complicated and is not relevant to this topic.

        When I say independent, I mean an adviser who isn't affiliated/licenced with any of the companies mentioned in my comment. This leaves about 25% of the financial advice industry which will give you unbiased advice.

  • +5

    You make heaps of money and you are on Ozbargain asking financial advice. Do you think that's smart? Really?

    Get your ass to a financial expert and make good use of this huge amount of money.

  • edit nvm reread your post.

    The quoted figures are misleading … you're not as 'rich' as the title may suggest. Although good for you.. you will be one day! (as long as property prices keep rising and interest rates remain low)

  • Have you considered paying down your debt? I personally wouldn't be running at 80/20 LVR in this property market is a bit risky. Especially if you're quite negatively geared.

  • +2

    Hello,

    Similar situation, but a few years down the road from you.

    When you have kids, things change.

    1. Talk to your mortgage broker check when happens when you are on reduced single income income. You might be closer to your borrowing limit then you think in a few months time.

    2. Get the 80% lvr to a 90% lvr - certain medical professions can do this. Have newly offset capital sitting in an offset or just pay off your principle residence.

    3. Enjoy your time with your new baby, time goes quickly and you'll have heaps of time to set up yourself for retirement once kids leave home.

    4. The negative gearing will not work in your favour long term - have a plan soon to go interest and principle or sell off (CGT implications here). If you get new properties make sure they can look after themselves (even if the interest rate goes up 1+% on P&I). It's better to pay tax on money you earn than save tax on lost money.

    5. Assume your a MD, complete your fellowship as a priority (assume you haven't done it yet as it doesn't reflect in your income). It pays better than most investments.

    Blessings.

    • If you can have another go, will you still have a baby?
      or the more the merrier ?

      • More the merrier!

  • I'd put 5-10% of your net wealth into precious metals and continue to lower your LVR in preparation for GFC 2.0. (which should hit in the next 5 years).

  • -1

    keep buying investment properties in sydney

  • -1

    So you make over $150k PA ? I should just quit my job and go on the dole.

  • +1

    Combined income 350k. Property portfolio at 2.6m. 300k in savings

    Yet you are here? I know it is pointless comment but still…

  • +1

    Most of the answers here are bad. You're on the right path by being aware you need to diversify your portfolio. I suggest reading the barefoot investor as a starter to getting an understanding of how to setup your life and account for a child.

    Low cost passively managed index funds e.g. Vanguard are a popular choice but note that you are already exposed to shares (aka equities) from your super i.e. if the market crashes (and doesn't recover till after your retirement) it will hurt twice as bad. Warren Buffet is a strong advocate for low cost index funds and believes most fund managers are a rip-off.

    If you're currently at 80% LVR for your house then you still have a while to go to pay off your house depending on whether or not you make prepayments. A lot of people fall in the trap of taking out equity (if the value of their house has increased) and using it to invest in another property without fully researching. You are increasing your debt by doing this. I find a lot of people are getting into the property market without fully understanding it. IMO the massive growth in property prices has lead a larger room for error such that if the same people were to invest in less booming times they would be making a loss.

    • Most of the answers are 'bad' is a bit harsh it is a community forum this isn't the Warren Buffet club.

      Regardless…

      I agree with your point barefoot investor is a quality book for 'safe' investing strategies and wealth creation.

  • +1

    sigh, more people who quote million dollar wealth purely based on property prices, paper wealth. Hey, doing better than me by any measure, but this sort of behaviour is exactly the issue that is "wrong" with society.

    If you have so many savings I really don't know why you don't just pay off your mortgage. Your portfolio value is fluid; the fact you owe money to the bank on your family home is not.

  • These threads make me feel bad, I really should stop reading them.

  • +1

    Is this for real? Or is it some kind of trolling to show off that I don't understand?

  • oh my god…… which company can able pay that salary???

    • I saw a Nissan dealer here in Adelaide advertise 80k salary, see random high paying jobs which you can get if your goodlooking and a good lier. Dont even need uni!

      • so good………

      • there are many professional, university based career paths paying well over 80k. personally well voer $120k further up the ladder. I can only imagine the real traditional heavy hitters like doctors, dentists etc would be well above 200-300k. it is actually more common than one thinks.

  • start spending!

  • You don't appear to have much equity in your asset base compared to your very high household income.
    What age are you both?

  • Try aligning some part of your portfolio towards what you believe the future world will look like. For example, defence if you think it's going to be war torn. Medical if you believe that's the driver of next wave of prosperity etc. Pick a few themes you believe is likely and go with it.

    You will have a diff opinion to everyone else and should invest accordingly.

    If you don't have a strong opinion then like many ppl said, ETF.

  • Sell everything you own when about to retire, and go retire in a third world country (nice house, in a secure area). You will live like a king, literally. No need to become a multimillionaire here, when you go there you will be it - immediately

    • Then email people from Nigeria to give away any excess wealth….

      • we all need a reputable, skilled, reliable scammer to bright up our days

  • Turn your rental properties into slum housing for international students. You're in the hottest area for that market right now.

    Exploit that crotchling you have coming into a life of servitude by starting a sweat shop and reap the gains. Then don't pay tax and whinge that your tax dollars shouldn't go to dole bludgers.

    Then trick your crotchling into gaining employment as a lawyer coz apparently the consensus here is they make a lot. It'll be prepared for the shitty work life balance because you trained said crotchling in that lifestyle in the sweatshop.

    Make sure your spoilt crotchling still gets Centrelink when it goes to university straight out of whatever prestigious private school it was in to help you save money

    Oh…and get a high interest bank account

  • Get a Range Rover and lower it

  • talk about blowing ur own horn, nice thread pffttttt

  • OP - use your significant income cashflow to pay off debt and reduce that 80% LVR on property. The sooner you build up that equity buffer the more real asset wealth you can boast. At the same time educate yourself. You mentioned you wanted to spend as little times as possible learning equities - well you get what you pay for. Would you spend minimal time learning about real estate and whatever it is you need in your capacity to work? YOu wouldn't - so make an effort to study the stock market like crazy and how to invest in great companies - if you want to get a proportional return. It's quite simple common sense in that regards.

    If you still have no issue giving away your financial potential for laziness or convenience, as some said - hop onto some ETFs or LICs or a combination. Provided you get great, well managed purchaes in, just accumultaing htis wealth will be blindly increasing your asset base over time.

    Still - unless it bugs you that much - put in some effort and read and educate yourself further. Unless money is not a consideration.

  • +1

    350k/year moving to send kids to a public school? Huh

    Are private schools that bad these days?

  • Invest in corporate bonds.
    Happy to discuss more offline.

  • +1

    Wow, I only earn slightly above minimum wage. When I see posts like this from OP I want to take a long walk off a short cliff because I'll be investing in a spot under a highway overpass when I'm ready to retire.

  • +3

    This is what my post would read: Combined income 84k. Property portfolio at nil. Combined HECS debt of 90k Less than 5k in savings. Changes to HECs repayment scheme mean we'll start paying $600 a year in repayments. What is best way to invest further?

    My partner and I spend a little over a 1/3 and rising of our income on renting in Sydney. The landlord likes to increase the rental price $20 per week annually while my salary doesn't increase $20 per week annually.

    My pay went up by $0.43 per hour last year. Have no guaranteed hours as job is casual and have gone for up to 3 months without work at a time.

    I've lost about 2k playing the cryptocurrency market in the hope of making it big like some lucky posters here.

    Don't own a motor vehicle due to associated costs and we have decided that having a child would cripple us financially so will never have one.

    Have considered euthenasia as a possible strategy to get ahead into heaven close to good schools and community.

    Thoughts?

    • my salary doesn't increase $20 per week annually.

      But it did go up… by $16.34/week

      My pay went up by $0.43 per hour last year.

      0.43 x 38 = 16.34

      • Casual: not guaranteed 38 hours a week my friend. My yearly income fluctuates. The rental increases exceed wage increases by a large margin for many Australian's as they set the increases in line with inflation but not wage inflation.

      • You have to look at percentages as he only spends 1/3 of his wage on rent. This would work out to $5.44. So his rent went up by nearly 4x his wage increase.

    • How do you amass 90k in HECS and not make decent money? Did you choose your uni course poorly?

      • 90k HECS - thats like 3 x degrees

  • +1

    I hate it when people come to OzBargain, the number one bargain site in Australia and then get treated like financial experts. makes me sick.

  • +5

    This is going to come across negative but I feel the OP has come to a website where a majority of people like myself, are thrifty out of necessity, who don't earn any where near the amount OP is claiming to earn has done so to "rub our noses" in their "success". This has actually put me in a foul mood. The gall of it …

    We have people talking about a buying a second home as I sit on the bus and pass by children playing on a tiny 10th floor apartment balcony (obviously no backyard) in an apartment building covered in combustible aluminium cladding. The landlord is collecting negative gearing and capital gains tax, thinking about purchasing another property while the tenants clean his toilets at his office and get not sick leave or other entitlements reserved to those with full-time employment. What kind of society have we created? Does anyone else think this is sick?

    Dark times are coming people. The unwashed, underpaid and abused mob with torches and pitch forks will be coming for your investment portfolio and 3rd home. Mark my words.

    • I think alot of people here aren't struggling. E.g. personally I hate how the frontpage gets cluttered wtih deals on 'potatos half price at Coles this week only' etc - much rather see more big ticket item deals. Tightness is a personality trait evenly distributed across socioeconomic situations.

  • With that much I would be a little hawkish buy 2 Antminer S9's and mine some bitcoins, maybe look at mining some litecoins too.

  • Increase the equity in your current properties.

  • @OliverKlozoff, have you thought about investing in real estate out of the country?

    If the idea does interest you, get in touch with me. My father is an Architect and Real Estate investor in India, he would be able to help you find a suitable property to invest in. ROI on real estate in India (if investing in the right property), could be way higher than in a market like Australia.

    Just a thought.

  • +1

    Hi there, I cannot see a case where you would invest if you still have non-deductible debt tied to your principal place of residence. Setting money against that loan is guaranteed return = interest rate. Yes, you could risk it in the markets but we are at all time highs for most developed market economies. Utilising equity in your home to gear in your personal name to offset your marginal tax rate rate would be a smarter option. Please pm for further info as I don't know your specific situation/risk profile etc. Yes, I work in the industry.

  • +1

    Seek a great financial adviser and accountant. Go through the process of determining your risk profile and they'll be able to provide options tailored to your appetite for risk.
    Obviously you are your partner have a good income, if finances are not your strength, seek advice from those that trained and have knowledge to help to achieve your goals. The obvious caveat is you have to be able to trust your adviser to make decisions that are in your best interests.
    All the best.

  • Barefoot has made me money regardless of how 'basic' people may or may not believe his strategies are. Investing doesn't have to be complex to work. I'd start looking at my net position. What you own minus what you owe. That is your real value, protect yourself against a worst case scenario, ie property crash, other personal scenarios Illness ect. In other words if the s hits the fan what will your outcome be?

    Too many eggs in one basket is never a good idea, of total I hold approx 25% cash, and split the rest between property and shares. Investment is a long game, generally if you make money quick you are just as likely to loose it quickly.
    Whilst it is not alway possible I always try to own things rather than carry debt. For example I drive a car I own when I could lease a newer flash car. Debt costs you not much now but it won't be long before interest rates rise, are you ready for that ?

    I hope it all works out for you! Listen to many opinions and act on few.

  • +1

    Do you qualify for Ozbargain?

    • Yeah I think this guy is on the wrong site.

  • +2

    I was going to say use your offset money and buy shares under your wife's name. This would give her some income during her break and also it will give you larger negative gearing.
    THEN
    I realised that your offset is against your HOME loan. Nothing can beat keeping your savings in that home loan's offset.
    1. You are GUARANTEED to earn the interest rate you are paying on your home mortgage.
    2. Your money is 100% liquid. You never know what emergency can arise.
    3. Your saving is in the safest place and there is no volatility.
    4. There is no work involved or there is no money lost in fees/paperwork
    5. SANF (Sleep at night factor)- Worth a lot.
    6. You don't pay tax on the benefits.

    Say your home interest rate is 4%. To earn the same through an investment, assuming the tax rate is 37%, your investment needs to produce about 5.5% before tax. Let's say 6% considering fees and other costs (eg: Tax agent will charge more). Add another 1% for your time & work.
    Now which stock/investment is going to give you 7% yield while your capital is protected? Most high yielding stocks actually eat into their capital (Eg: Telstra).

  • Buy AAPL. They ain't stopping anytime soon!

  • Eather minim using solar and wind farms.

  • Can we be friends?

  • With incomes like that all you need to do is be wary of shysters trying to rip you off by selling you "investments". Just keep your money safe and you can't go wrong.

    And you should invest in fresh water. It's gonna be EXPENSIVE in about 100 years.

  • +1

    f*** you're so rich. why worry about attaining more.

  • u work in healthcare and so does ur wife. r u a 40 year old doctor with a 20 year old nurse wife?

    • +2

      Did you know they have lady doctors too these days?

Login or Join to leave a comment