Combined income 350k. Property portfolio at 2.6m. 300k in savings. What is best way to invest further?

OliverKlozoff on 09/07/2017 - 23:45
Last edited 10/07/2017 - 08:27

Hi there,

My wife and I been very blessed and live in our own house (still paying off mortgage) and currently have all our investments in property only.

I am (obviously) by no means a guru/even moderately clued in when it comes to how to invest money and have heard lots of arguments going both ways for diversifying or keeping on with property.

Personally, I'd prefer to diversify into some sort of fund (that someone else can manage for me cause I'd just do the equivalent of 'putting it all on black'), but part of the reason we are entertaining the idea of buying another house is to get into a good public school zone for our kids to come as my wife is currently pregnant.

Would love to get some opinions from the more investment savvy people on this forum.

Edit: Important information I've forgotten to state, properties are all still being paid off at 20:80 LVR, so a large amount of liability.
Rental income covers a large proportion of interest (whilst the interest rate stays put) but there is some negative gearing going on.
Savings are in offset for home mortgage

Financial

Comments

  • subywagon on 09/07/2017 - 23:56
    +14

    Bikies.

    Invest in Bikies.

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:00
      +14

      let's call that plan B

      • MrFrugalSpend on 10/11/2017 - 21:03

        I don't think you should do anything until you sort out why you would still have a mortgage but have "savings"? Comsidering you pay tax on the dismal amount of interest you would be getting on savings, pay off your mortgage!

    • ireadtermsofuse on 10/07/2017 - 10:29
      +5

      I was thinking more put it all on red

      • Munki on 10/07/2017 - 23:11

        For the blood of those that have wronged OP?

  • lakes_8 on 09/07/2017 - 23:58
    +3

    read some finance books

    EFT's for a diversified share portfolio, or wholesale vanguard fund

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:00

      any particular book you'd recommend?

      • gimli on 10/07/2017 - 06:40

        How much time per day are you willing to spend managing your investment

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 08:12

          To be honest, I'd rather it be relatively minimal. But I could probably find a few hours every week

        • gimli on 10/07/2017 - 08:18
          +3

          @OliverKlozoff:
          In that case if you want to get into stocks an exchange traded fund might be the best option.

          Could I suggest you read 4 pillars of investment by Bernstein

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 08:23

          @Gimli: thanks Gimli. Will look into that :)

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 10:53
          +1

          @Gimli:

          Bernstein is great. Needs to be adapted to Australian conditions, and from memory he is quite prescriptive of how you should structure your investment portfolio, but the principles are great.

        • Kangal on 10/07/2017 - 11:16
          +8

          @OliverKlozoff:

          If I had money like that, I would start investing in physical wealth.
          Silver is probably your best bet, its very stable, almost always goes up in price nicely, and a little concentration of it can hold a decent investment. Much better than antiques or art, which is a volatile market.

          On top of that, you're looking into property.
          Well, I would be looking into buying a decent plot of land… and build a "safe house".
          I'd probably go crazy with like Zombie/Apocalypse proofing and also get a 4WD that could be emergency vehicle.

          You'll thank me later ; )

        • timps on 11/07/2017 - 12:04
          +5

          @Kangal: Never listen to anyone who says "X always goes up in price".

          Nothing is always going up. Every investment comes with risk.

        • Kangal on 11/07/2017 - 12:50

          @timps:
          "Nothing is 100% certain, including what I've said."

          If you check the history of Silver, you'll see I was right. In fact, certain countries place their currency's value on the Silver Market because it's so progressive and stable.

          Besides I said "almost".

        • Almost Banned on 11/07/2017 - 18:30
          +1

          @timps: Bernie Madoff always went up - until he didn't.

        • buckster on 11/07/2017 - 21:37

          @blaircam: Viagra helps with that

      • CLoSeR on 10/07/2017 - 08:36
        +4

        This book; and consider joining as a blueprint member if you like it.

        http://www.booktopia.com.au/the-barefoot-investor-scott-pape…

        • Singu1arity on 10/07/2017 - 21:22
          +9

          Lots of Barefoot's strategies are basic and targeted at people who have spending/savings issues. I think OP is a little above that…

      • Bunnyburger on 10/07/2017 - 21:29
        +6

        The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham, A Random Walk on Walk Street by Burt Malkiel, One Up on Wall Street by Peter Lynch. These are the classics.

        Long story short passive investing beats active investing. Emphasis on less messing around and more diversification to ensure safe modest returns over a long period of time as opposed to increased volatility.

    • BigBirdy on 10/07/2017 - 08:24

      Could even try an ETF - Exchange Traded Fund. Index funds are probably a good start. If you're looking long-term, then superannuation

  • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:00
    +8

    Buy a crap load of crypto currencies

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:01
      +3

      too volatile and unpredictable - also i'm at work too often to properly do day trading

      • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:06
        +3

        Don't day trade, you'll just blow all your money that way.

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:06

          :S so just buy blue chip and hold?

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:09
          +3

          @OliverKlozoff:

          Buy a few hundred bucks of a few coins that are a fraction of a cent, or a few cents per coin.
          Put in a sell order at say 200x what you bought them for, and just wait for the order to be filed.
          If the coin flops, you've lost $200, if the sell order is filled then you make some money.

          All in all, this year I've lost a few grand, and made many many many times what I've put in after the flops. I've made more money from crypto than my job, which pays very well.

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:11
          +5

          @Drew22: How do I get started with that? Do i need to convert to USD to buy in? In your reply please speak to me like i'm an 8 yr old so I don't get confused

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:14
          +11

          @OliverKlozoff:

          I use bittrex.com as the exchange.
          Coinbase.com and coinjar.io to buy the Bitcoin.
          Use the Bitcoin on Bittrex to buy whatever crypto coin I want.
          Convert back to Bitcoin and use Coinjar to get AUD back.

          Start with like $20, and do a bunch of small transactions to figure out how to move and exchange the coins.
          Once you've figured it out, start upping the numbers.

          Don't day trade. Don't sell if it drops 80%. Just sell when its like 100x what you bought it for.

          Plenty of YouTube videos on this.

          An 8 year old would have this down in like 6 minutes.

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:15

          @Drew22: youre a champ. will definitely give this a go.
          last thing if you dont mind: is it safe? The replies in threads like this worry me:

          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/239679

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:17
          +3

          @OliverKlozoff:

          Define safe.
          Cash isn't safe.
          Your bank isn't safe.

          Is anything safe?

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:19

          @Drew22: Fair point but when I get cash i know exactly what I own, is there a chance you pay someone for bitcoin or another crypto and… you don't actually get it?

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:23

          @OliverKlozoff:

          Use a reputable place.

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:27

          @Drew22: cheers drew.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 00:31
          +4

          @OliverKlozoff:

          Remember me when you're power sliding in your new lambo

        • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:32
          +20

          @Drew22: If my crypto account hits it big I'll buy you some eneloops ;)

        • gimli on 10/07/2017 - 06:43

          @Drew22:

          Do you recommend any videos or books which guide you about this

        • BartholemewH on 10/07/2017 - 08:28

          @Gimli:
          Drew22 does the open sell order mean your coins are held by the market the whole time?

        • TightAl on 10/07/2017 - 09:57

          @Drew22: Which coins would you recommend currently?

        • brendongl on 10/07/2017 - 12:04

          @TightAl:

          antshares are terribly undervalued right now, and going thru a re-branding and the end of this month…once they are available on more exchanges than just the one western exchange, the price will boom.

          HODL is the meme in the crypto world, look up what it means, and life will be easier :)

        • thord on 10/07/2017 - 13:09
          +2

          @Drew22:

          There's a big fat * that you should put at the end of this advice.

          This years crazy gains have been highly unusual.

          A lot of people have gotten lucky this year. It's hard to say that it'd be repeated.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 13:22
          +2

          @thord:

          Unless you have a crystal ball or a time machine, the same could be said about any kind of investment.

        • gromit on 10/07/2017 - 13:36
          +2

          @Drew22: You may as well just go down to your local bookmaker, all you are really suggesting is he gambles, may as well tell him to buy lotto tickets or take a punt on a horse race.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 13:46

          @gromit:

          That is pretty much what investing is though.

        • gromit on 10/07/2017 - 18:56
          +1

          @Drew22: only bad investors follow that approach and yes they could be considered little better than gamblers too, yes there are a lot out their that have that approach, doesn't make it smart thing to do though. Good investors do their research and make their investments on information on best returns vs manged risk etc, not simply throwing money at something and hope it makes a 200 fold return.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 18:58
          +1

          @gromit:
          What approach?
          Investment is pure speculation, there is never a guarantee that you're money is safe anywhere

        • gromit on 10/07/2017 - 20:32
          +3

          @Drew22: If you truly believe that then why bother with something with so little a return as 200x, why not go down and put your couple of hundred on lotto tickets, much better returns. Obviously all the successful investors are just lucky gamblers and their is no method to their madness.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 21:18
          -3

          @gromit:
          What are you even talking about? You're making no sense mate.

        • SaberX on 11/07/2017 - 21:07
          +7

          @Drew22:

          Rubbish. OP don't follow this post. Investments and markets are always the same - there is no new 'paradigm' shift. Easy money, $200 becoming $200,000 in cryptocurrency - it's all unsustainable bs.

          Yeah, sure, if you got in lucky at the right time you're laughing to the bank. But for many who get in late to the party it is like any specualtive gamble - it will eventually blow up. Only those less experienced hands are touting cryptocurrency as the unstoppable investment. You know when something is an 'investment fad' when every man, cat and his dog is touting it. WHen the taxi driver talks bitcoin and ethereum you know there is a speculation problem.

          Gromit is correct - only bad investors i.e. specualtors, gamble money away. There is a sure true and tried way to great investing. Solid, great companies where there is a high conviction that good old business principles will see you make multiples. Anyone calling it a bookmakers market is just clueless . It's like anything: real estate included - educate yourself and you'll soon see the same successful people int he same corner, and the rest of the speculators prettying up speculation as 'investment'.

          The returns from cryptocurrency are unsustainable for any modern , long term investment strategy. It is pure speculation. And unless you realise it is just that, and are willing to roll the dice - OP stay away. You have decent money and income, set yourself up with a much better asset portfolio in terms of your property and equities.

        • SaberX on 11/07/2017 - 21:10
          +2

          @SaberX:

          this is not to confuse in any way the great technological abilities of cryptocurrency. It is great, and the idea of blockchain great, but a sound investment it is not. Pure specualtion it is. No proper investment jumps and moves in such wild flashes as etherum, bitcoin etc. They are speculation and that's all they are. Plain and simple.

          OP - go and buy the Richest Man in Babylon by George Clason , apply the principles ironclad when you read it. Then re-read it again. As it states - chasing returns beyond your wildest dream will ensure a fool is soon parted with his money.

        • User102430 on 11/07/2017 - 21:29

          @TightAl:
          None, the correction began. Better wait…

        • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2017 - 10:10

          @thord: The same thing could have been said of the sydney house prices in 2013 and 2014. Look what is happening now. They've been going on about the bubble bursting for how long now? (Not saying if it is or is not a bubble, good thing I don't live there).

        • [Deactivated] on 14/07/2017 - 11:02

          @lolbbq:

          Doom and gloom sells ad space in newspapers.
          Are crypro a good long term investment? Absolutely! Which crypto thought? I have no idea.
          Am I a capitalist and cashing in while I can? ABSOLUTELY!
          Will the insane gains last forever? No. Does anything last forever? No.

          Housing and cash/bank aren't always safe either, just look at America during the GFC. Many other places had it tough too, we didn't have a recession in Australia so people haven't felt that pain.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 14:19

          @Drew22: Its hard to say if anything would last forever. That is such a long time. However, Lloyd's of London and the Berenberg bank would have been pretty good investments in the 16/1700s.

          I would hazard to say that in the this generation, land would be an okay investment (not just any land though) as the world adds another 3 billion people in the next 30-40 years. After that who knows what will happen? Personal air travel, teleportation, finding another nice planet and cheap space travel. However, until they solve those issues, land on earth and especially land near infrastructure is always going to be less than demand.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 19:32

          @lolbbq:

          An investment made in the 16th and 17th century finally paying off!

        • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 21:08

          @Drew22: i believe they've been paying off for a fair while now. Not sure since when though!

        • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2017 - 13:19

          @lolbbq:

          So long as you didn't buy your shares anytime between 2001 and 2015

          http://imgur.com/6tacw7t

        • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2017 - 15:22

          @Drew22: Oh wow. Didnt know it was like that (just old companies off the top of my head). I suppose they would have been good investments 200 years ago.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2017 - 15:29

          @lolbbq:

          So lets agree that you don't know what you're talking about.

          I'm sure a lot of things were great investments 200 years ago when I wasn't alive.

      • bitambitious on 11/07/2017 - 21:03

        When Cloakcoin released early 2014, I purchased around 10,000 coins at around AU $0.5-$0.10 late 2014 with roughly $900 to $1000~ 3 years later - it peaked at $17 AUD :)
        However I cashed out at $7 AUD - $10 too soon =( under $70k - converted cloakcoin to bitcoin on bittrex, bittrex to coinjar to AUD in your bank.
        My BTC to AUD exchange on Coinjar is $10k daily, however you can increase your limit etc.

        You don't have to throw all your money into it. $1k AUD for long term is always good and never sell just cause it dropped 80% like Drew22 mentioned.

    • Wystri Warrick on 10/07/2017 - 00:19
      +4

      Yup, a mega crap load, cause the price to spike people think it's booming they buy you sell $😁$ :P

    • naritas on 10/07/2017 - 13:47
      +6

      The percentage of clients that we have seen make a success of day trading or trading crypto currencies is under 5%.
      This observation comes from our capacity as credit advisers where it is mandatory for us to see a person's financials (typically the past 2 to 3 years) as a part of the finance approval process and having been observed over nearly 15 years.

      Furthermore, the backgrounds of these clients are diverse - some have come from investment banking, the finance sector and professions that require a generally high level of mental acuity (medicine, law, etc).

      The simple fact is that there is no easy way to make money and if you intend upon beating some of the smartest minds on the planet at their own game (yes, there are professional traders in this space) - you really MUST know precisely what you are doing if you want the gains you make to be anything more than blind luck.

      Hope this helps.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/07/2017 - 15:50
        -1

        95% of your clients are impatient, buy high and sell low.

    • magnacartic on 10/07/2017 - 22:57

      Or trade BTC-based CFDs at 1Broker if you're a degenerate gambler like me. Referral

      You can trade Forex, Stock, Indices or Commodities up to a maximum leverage of 100. High risks, high losses/gains; vice versa. I only do 100. Lost 80% last week on Silver longs, but made everything back by shorting AUD-USD. Only risk money you can afford to lose. Buy low, sell high. :D

    • devking on 13/07/2017 - 21:23

      Its the best investment strategy with high risks. If you know what to trade, you'll be rich. Don't day trade, its highly volatile.

      I have invested back in 2013 without researching alt coins. I lost around $5K initially. Now I'm a millionaire with just $5k capital. It took 1 year with my initial investment to become a millionaire. I have invested in Stratis last year Jul 2016 with 9 bitcoins(it was around $500 for bitcoin) and never sold. Better than property investment. All bitcoin money comes under capital gains. I'll continue to hold Stratis for another year.

      Few tips
      1) Research and pick a good alt coin with promising tech.
      2) Hold and don't day trade even if its dropping.
      3) Sell some when your investment is in range of 5-10% of total value to get back initial money. Just to be safe.
      4) Don't sell in losses.

  • mskeggs on 10/07/2017 - 00:01
    +56

    With your desperate economic situation you might consider begging door to door to help get your future child into school…

    By any measure property is very high in Sydney and Melbourne. Since you have amassed extraordinary wealth from property, and have an extremely high income, perhaps consider moving into an investment that will retain some value if there is an unlikely property crash?
    It seems a bit silly that you are asking an internet forum when you can readily afford top level financial advice. So my suggestion is to start by asking your accountant to recommend a couple of conservative fee-for-service financial advisors. Pay them the couple of thousand each will ask to draw up a plan for you, then evaluate.

    Based on my experience, the plan will say:
    - you need lots of income insurance (I dispute this, but it seems to be a given)
    - you need tax effective investment vehicles so expect to be urged to borrow for investing (I dispute this too!)
    - you are likely to benefit from more complex structures like companies and trusts to hold your assets so you can vary how income and capital gains are recognised. E.g. assuming your partner wants to take some time off after your child is born you can get some tax benefits from directing income an capital gains to her while she isn't working. (I think this is a good idea)
    - at your level of assets you must diversify, both in asset classes and internationally. I would suggest a prudent plan would include cash, precious metals, AU equities, international equities and international property. ( I think this is necessary)

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:06
      +3

      You're right it does seem a bit silly but when I speak to financial advisors they often give me the feeling they want to talk me into the fund that allows them to charge me the most (I've literally had another financial advisor say to me "nah they just want your money, you should do this…") which I found worrisome, but perhaps I'm overthinking it.

      That said, thanks for the genuine advice and opinions!

      on your last point re assets classes and internationally - that is something I can have someone buy and trade for me? unfortunately I work 6 days a week and usually between 8-12 hours a day

      • mskeggs on 10/07/2017 - 08:25
        +16

        that is something I can have someone buy and trade for me?

        That is what a managed fund (think Vanguard, BT, Platinum Asset, Blackrock, AMP, Perpetual) do for their main business. A managed fund is like a bank account where you send the company money and they invest it for you, delivering all the rewards or losses back to you minus a fee. There is a huge variation of fees and funds, with each company typically running multiple funds which specialise in things like international shares, or fixed interest or a mix of things aiming for growth(more risk) or income (more dividends) or stable (low risk) or short (fund goes up when things go down).
        These days you can also buy equivalent products called ETFs on the ASX. These were a great leveller for investors with less money but time and knowledge as they typically charge lower fees and have fewer conditions on minimum investment etc. This isn't a big deal for you.

        The issue for you is that you can likely save a truckload of tax if you set up an SMSF for some of this investing, and a family trust and/or investment company to do the rest of it. This would allow you to pay less tax on the investments now and more later when your income (or your wife's or kids) is lower so the applicable rate is lower. This is literally what the wealthy people do when you read about the ATO targeting high rollers. Like with doing a tax return, it is illegal to do more than you should, but the difference between doing all you can to minimise tax and maximise returns, versus doing nothing, could be $50,000 a year in your case.

        This is why I suggest you ask your accountant to recommend fee-for-service financial advisers. They make no money from commissions for recommending different products, so will give you advice aimed at your best interests. Assuming you are a doctor, you might also ask for recommendations for people to talk to from your senior colleagues, as they will have faced similar financial issues.

        Your personal circumstances are complex and will require sophisticated solutions, not something that can easily be solved in an internet comment. You will need a good accountant and advisor, and likely a good solicitor too. The good news for you is that there have been many people in your position who need to outsource this to trustworthy helpers and there is a vast industry waiting to help.

        • khomeini on 11/07/2017 - 21:00
          +4

          From all of us at Ozbargain thank you mskeggs.

          Probably the most informative and insightful comment here for a while.

      • geoffs87 on 10/07/2017 - 08:31

        I'm with skeggs on this one, i think you need to find a financial advisor you can trust, but don't just assume you can trust them…

        I can't imagine different funds give them the ability to charge different fees, unless the wraps/funds etc themselves are charging higher fees to get into them.

        The adviser should only be charging you for his/her time - and there are plenty of them out there that are very good (and yes, there are plenty that aren't).

        Lets face it, their job is to help manage other peoples money, whether that's for safety or for income generation, or for profit. I have worked in finance/stockbroking - and have still learnt good strategies from planners that i wouldn't have otherwise clued onto!

        Best of luck!

      • abm77 on 12/07/2017 - 21:54

        Yeap, seek advise from professionals.
        My personal advise - start with these guys https://empowerwealth.com.au/services/money-management/

    • iforgotmysocks on 10/07/2017 - 08:39
      +27

      you need tax effective investment vehicles

      Would an 80k investment vehicle be sufficient for this?

      • tomsco on 10/07/2017 - 08:58
        +8

        Only if it's high yield.

        • redfox1200 on 10/07/2017 - 16:14
          +4

          the OP probably doesn't work at westpac so wouldn't be eligible for this high yielding vehicle

      • Jackson on 11/07/2017 - 16:33

        As long as it still has its bonut in place

  • PLA74 on 10/07/2017 - 00:04
    +1

    Curious - what industry do you and your wife work in with that sort of combined income?

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:07
      +6

      We're in the health care industry. Comes with a heap of stress and not much time off though

      • Kangal on 10/07/2017 - 10:56
        +28

        She's a doctor and you're the nurse?

      • virhlpool on 11/07/2017 - 21:31
        -1

        Regular GPs work for about 38 hrs (and don't have to work more unless they want to), typically seeing non-emergency patients within their cozy chambers of medical centres. I may be stupid or naive but I don't understand if life of these GPs can be much stressful at all. Most GPs don't even check BP, heart beats, weight, your tongue/throat or ears unless you ask them to - I thought these were medical basics. Most of the GPs that I have visited start prescribing tests right away without any basic physical checks. Sometimes I feel that our primary healthcare depends a lot more on path labs than doctors themselves. Not sure if that's the new norm.

        Don't take me wrong - I understand that emergency doctors or specialists is a different ball game all together though. Keen to understand this a bit more. Thanks.

        PS: I am not assuming that the OP is a GP. :-)

        • OzzyB on 11/07/2017 - 23:22
          +4

          I don't think you are stupid or naive, just not very imaginative or insightful.
          http://www.theage.com.au/comment/gp-rebate-what-i-do-for-the…

          GPs have a very short time in which to take a history, do a physical examination, and explain everything to the patient's satisfaction. Not only do they have to establish rapport, they need buy-in so that the patient is compliant with their advice.

          Is the chest pain just a muscle strain from coughing, a serious lung abscess, or a cancer? If it's just an infection, is it viral/bacterial/fungal?? Is there an underlying immunodeficiency like HIV, or any other predisposing factors (eg secondary infection of a congenital abnormality)? Is the cough non-infective, some manifestation of an interstitial lung disease, occupational exposure, connective tissue disease, related to medication, nocturnal gastro-oesophageal reflux? Just a simple scenario but so many different ways of unfolding.

          And don't forget the mental and emotional stress. GPs have to deal with so many doubts and anxieties, both within themselves, but also all the patients they see. Giving people bad news is never fun. Taking away someone's ability to drive ot operate machinery i always a difficult conversation. Having to bargain with people who want more drugs, more tests, more sick leave. I don't think that you understand how hard it is to provide good, evidence-based medicine when patients think that you're not doing it right.

          I am not a GP, but I have a great deal of admiration for them. I don't think they get paid enough for the work that they do, and the stress that they are under. They are pivotal in the healthcare system, and save hospitals and emergency departments a huge amount of money.

        • moonphase on 12/07/2017 - 11:02
          +1

          @OzzyB:
          Yes if everyone is like the one you have described and assume that they do the right job.

          However, I often come across with people complaining with their GP. What you could here is:

          • wrong diagnosis
          • wrong treatment (lead by above)
          • not looking through the case (the worst ever and may lead above)

          GP is human too so they could make mistakes but they are doctors too. Every words and action make impacts to the patients. Going for pathology is for diagnosis so that's fine. What they are usually lack at is "follow up" / explaining results that makes the patients worry.

          You mentioned the good point. They need to build rapport and trust. How is the key here. If they ever make you feel that you haven't treated as you would be, it's always lack of information provided.

          I have friends whom work in the healthcare industry and they often surprise what GP advised.

          I agree that GP is hard job and the one doing their job may have stress for it. But I don't see all GP is trying that hard to do their best.

        • virhlpool on 12/07/2017 - 21:05
          +1

          @OzzyB:

          I am not a GP, but I have a great deal of admiration for them. I don't think they get paid enough for the work that they do, and the stress that they are under.

          How much do you reckon they should be paid for the 'stress' they go through as you described? Don't you think many people in corporate positions undergo much more stress at much lesser salaries? Would you say the same for them as well? Bus drivers in peak hours are under stress too. Shouldn't they be paid more? So are finance execs and sales managers in large companies.

          The worst thing - is there any QA authority that keeps a watch on GPs' service and quality on a regular basis? I am not exaggerating, I have faced many sub-standard GPs and they still survive as patients often don't have many medical centres/options in their immediate neighbourhood or sometimes patients aren't smart enough to realise if the GPs added any real value to their case of illness or not (apart from the diagnosis outcome of 10's of path tests that they prescribed which any "GP" in the world could have done irrespective of quality of his/her education). I am not at all saying that GP is a useless profession but their knowledge and experience come into play when they add any value in terms of right diagnosis, quick judgement, and quality medication of course in addition to very good service to the patients which is must. Be honest and tell me how many GPs did you find that are really knowledgeable, highly experienced and smart who wouldn't rely on just tests?

          Specialists' care in our country is absurdly expensive for a reason and you are saying that the healthcare professionals aren't paid enough. Well, if that wasn't the case, our citizens wouldn't have to fly to Asian countries to get cheaper, faster and better care that isn't fully covered by our Medicare. We need to come out of our cocoon and see where the medical care in the world is and we are still paying $1000 for an MRI and $800 for an ambulance trip and we still say that our Medicare covers everything. Don't take me wrong - universal healthcare system is a necessity and we are lucky to have it (though many countries have it better) but that doesn't mean that above things can't be fixed.

        • drfuzzy on 13/07/2017 - 19:03
          +1

          @virhlpool:

          You OK buddy? I think you need a GP.

        • AusGP on 13/07/2017 - 20:37
          +1

          @virhlpool:

          As I mentioned in another reply, it is a sad state of affairs indeed when GPs are viewed with such disdain by the general population. I think all GPs know it and feel de-moralised by it. The only problem being probably the bad GPs aren't really fussed about it at all! It's no wonder a lot of good junior doctors never consider becoming a GP

          I suggest finding a new GP if you've never seen a good one! I might suggest going for a mixed billing GP to narrow the search. If they aren't any good generally they won't survive. They just might save your life when you don't expect it so is worth the money. If you want just bulk billing, the search is a bit harder but not impossible. Give a try to the younger GPs as they are either in training (and hence hopefully doing things the proper way), or just recently trained so know the latest and also haven't had a chance to be corrupted by bad medicine yet.

          There is no overall QA authority really unless something goes terribly wrong. So as a result, you can survive by being a just adequate GP as long as you send everyone to emergency or specialists so you avoid harming anyone (handball any difficult patients on). It is one huge issue with the current Medicare system - because you can bill Medicare for seeing patients, without there being any incentives to provide quality except the goodness of each individual doctors' heart.

        • virhlpool on 14/07/2017 - 04:53

          @maraco:

          Yeah, mate. Okay’ish as you.

  • Qroozn on 10/07/2017 - 00:23
    +9

    First error -a child is not a good investment

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:25
      +68

      Place i got it from has a no return or refund policy unfortunately

      • Wystri Warrick on 10/07/2017 - 05:07
        +3

        That doesn't sound right :/ have you tried contacting consumer affairs?

      • theStinge on 10/07/2017 - 21:57

        Especially not for 'change of mind' I would think!

    • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 08:26
      +5

      a child is not a good investment

      Depends … if the kid turns into a doctor, lawyer, <other high income earner> … then it's a pretty good investment.

      • westernculture on 10/07/2017 - 17:33
        +1

        Or might turn into bogans, which is fine as they live off taxpayers money via centrelink.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/07/2017 - 17:48
          +2

          which is fine as they live off taxpayers money via centrelink.

          But a terrible investment … I doubt one could collect enough from centerlink to cover the cost of their private school education, let alone the the food, clothes, holidays, etc.

        • secondstory on 10/07/2017 - 23:59
          +2

          @sp00ker:

          But if you're raising a bogan you only need enough money for one of those.

      • Doggiie on 10/07/2017 - 20:12
        +1

        There is a lot of non-systematic risk involved with a child's upbringing to get the said jobs. I suggest diversifying on many children if you would take on this investment choice to diversify out the risk.

    • MLeeder on 10/07/2017 - 17:33
      +5

      what about an 80k car?

  • AlienC on 10/07/2017 - 00:25
    -2

    Why not start a restaurant just be the financier and hire the cooks and workers. Plenty of opportunities and profit margins in the food business. Can be as simple as a taco stand to a full blown pizzeria Italian restaurant or Japanese if you prefer.

    • OliverKlozoff on 10/07/2017 - 00:26
      +1

      Requires too much time I don't currently have. Would love to do that someday…

      • AlienC on 10/07/2017 - 00:28
        -1

        Well I guess you could try Acorns investing. I have heard mostly good stuff about it and you could start small and work your way up.

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