Racist References/Remarks or Just Opinions?

[Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 08:29
Last edited 25/08/2017 - 08:55 by 1 other user

Hi all,

So I got this job at a concierge at one of the Government Departments. I have a manager along with two other staff working at the same place.

I am not an Australian but I am Muslim from a Muslim country, another workmate is an Indian. This lady at work, sits next to the manager who is also an Australian and is her friend too, discusses things with us and ends up with saying bad things about Asian countries, people, faiths and the cultures they follow. She also says she is not a racist but even during talks about travelling, cultures, work, education, health etc she says she brings up a negativity and tells us.

I agree that the country we are from are still struggling with basic necessities and people are not literate however, they those are educated they know office ethics very well, I have worked with both Christians and Hindus and we never made feel they are minority.

Education & Work

closed Comments

  • BertieBrown on 25/08/2017 - 08:37
    +35

    It's a bit hard to know without context and details, however I'd suggest that it sounds like she's making inappropriate remarks.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 09:35

      She makes these remarks in manager's presence and she pretends like she is not listening. does it make her a racist too?

      • BertieBrown on 25/08/2017 - 11:13
        +13

        I don't know, I'm not sure. Without specific context and details I wouldn't be inclined to paint someone as racist.

        They are making and/or tolerating denigrating, hurtful, regretful remarks. It's very disappointing and I'm sorry that you're witness to this.

        Please remember that many Australians are loving, tolerant and welcoming of all people.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 20:04

          True.

        • dealman on 27/08/2017 - 09:11
          -1

          @twoperspectives:

          Dude, another quick to temper migrant here. Learn the lesson from me that I lost a few opportunities to learn.

          You'll come across many such situations here. Learn to deal with them.

          There'll be places to swallow the bitter pill and move on. This is one of them.

          Practical decision.. you are a contractor, saying anything/ raising up the issue is Going to jeopardize your chances of contact renewal.

          Make a practical decision, take care of your family, earn your money and ignore these stupid comments from her.

          Also, this is akin to the online Hitler argument. If you bring up the R card first, you lose.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2017 - 09:14

          @dealman: thats true. Eventhough if you read thr topic tittle i have clearly asked not accused someone. But people here are talking about religion and the country i am from because i mentioned it here. My mistake, learnt my lesson and never disclose your faith and country in an online forum specially an aussie one.

        • dealhunting007 on 27/08/2017 - 11:23
          +1

          @twoperspectives: Learn to deal with it mate. You are Australian or not, there no reason to take shit from anyone just because you are on contract or something like that. Not saying to use "R" card. Majority of the Australians and even residents from different countries I have dealt with are very loving, friendly and respect others.

          Sometimes, people are sharing the info they have or perceive by what they hear from surroundings without realizing their impact on surroundings. In big organisations I worked in till date, had cultural awareness course which explains the difference between cultures and what's acceptable may not be same.

          I would suggest to talk to your colleague or manager in positive way about the communication you are hearing, if something they are saying is not accurate, share the truth with them.

          Most of the time it's just misunderstanding than anything else. Good Luck !!!!

        • frostman on 27/08/2017 - 12:21

          @dealman:

          There'll be places to swallow the bitter pill and move on. This is one of them.

          Oh really? does the same apply to making an anti-semitic comment about Jewish people? Do they swallow the pill?

      • bs0 on 25/08/2017 - 23:56
        +2

        Not necessarily a racist, but hard to say without knowing her personally. She could also be like you, unsure about speaking up about certain issues and causing further trouble. Or just not very good at being a manager.

      • Odin on 26/08/2017 - 12:26
        +12

        "does it make her a racist too?"

        Uh, major point here. Don't try and give it a label as a justification.

        If it makes you feel uncomfortable, or bothers you, say something.

        • bhm133 on 26/08/2017 - 14:46
          +4

          I actually really like this commment. It really resonates. Don't find a label for it. Sometimes we try too hard to justify. Rather just say something because you feel uncomfortable.

          Thanks Odin for the simplicity of your comment.

        • ozkiwi75 on 26/08/2017 - 23:27
          +1

          A good idea, but it's not that simple if the person you are complaining about is in a position of power. In this case the manager or the manager's friend. Without knowing their character and how they would react, I wouldn't risk burning any bridges for the sake of my job.

    • PcisT on 26/08/2017 - 20:44
      +4

      Racism unfortunately still occurs in 2017. I work in a professional environment (healthcare) and there's a particular practitioner who always makes racist comments or jokes. The ironic thing is he is a gay person, so you would think he would be less discriminatory. However, he is a rare case and overall, most people are good people.

      • bobbified on 26/08/2017 - 21:31
        -1

        always makes racist comments or jokes

        Gotta admit though.. they're the funniest jokes! haha
        Otherwise Russell Peters wouldn't be so popular!

      • demiurge on 26/08/2017 - 23:28
        -1

        Racist jokes are the best though.

  • ilsan0 on 25/08/2017 - 08:44
    -5

    The easiest way to get over this is to agree with everything they say inspite of these not your views.
    They they wont have anything else to say. They can see that you are uncomfortable with their comments. They push even further because they enjoy this.

    This is typical Bully mentality.

    However, if you were to just agree with them and say" Yes all asians, hindus, muslims etc are yucky and smell bad etc etc", suddenly they would not know how to react.

    Next time they might not even bring it up cause you will just agree with them…

    Try it and see how it goes:)

    • Slippery Fish on 25/08/2017 - 09:27
      +24

      I find bluntly pointing out how terrible they are being is enough to achieve that, never betray your morals, they are yours.

      • ilsan0 on 25/08/2017 - 09:38
        +31

        I used to be the same. As I grew older, I understood 90% of people around you are dumb and cannot think at the same level.
        Pointing out their incompetency's only seemed to aggravate the matter.

        • yupyup on 26/08/2017 - 16:25
          +1

          let the wookie win

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 09:37
      +1

      Lol. that sounds funny. I'll try.

      • Blunglefortness on 27/08/2017 - 10:28
        +1

        Don't. It's terrible advice. If this ever turned in to a HR or FairWork situation, you may find yourself having a very tough time trying to argue how "the people at work were racist or inappropriate", when they may turn around and say you were joining in.

    • smux on 26/08/2017 - 14:12
      -5

      Or say white people stink of cheese because they eat too much of it or something

    • scud70 on 26/08/2017 - 14:41
      +2

      This works in a lot of scenarios not just this specific one. I'm a firm follower of this without actually uttering that I agree or putting down a person's culture etc unless it's a joke and the person I'm mucking around with is present.. As mentioned in other comments a lot of "educated" people are actually life/experience dumb… Sheltered and can't cope or come to terms with such diversity around the world… Always best to go Hmmm Yeh ok… Smile n then forget they even opened their mouths… Works a treat… Loll btw I'm a migrant (Muslim background) but don't follow any religions or care for any doctrine that has been how you say formulated by humans… Hahaha no offense to religious people my best friends are all religious…

  • enzioFirenze on 25/08/2017 - 08:50
    +13

    I think we also try to shield ourselves from reality by hiding behind political correctness, I'm not saying that's the case here, just food for thought.

  • pjetson on 25/08/2017 - 09:03
    +1

    Hi, twoperspectives. I'm unclear as to what you're trying to say.

    You are apparently able to talk to this one person about "travelling, cultures, work, education, health, etc". Isn't that a good thing? That's the kind of things I'd like to talk to you about if I was working with you. I'm "an aussie", and I and my country don't have the depth of culture that you and yours have.

    Is your issue that this one person sometimes seems to want to shift the conversation to negative aspects? Some people are just like that. Others don't even realise that's how they're coming across to other people.

    It's hard to tell whether it's racist based just on what you've posted. I know it's likely to be tough for you, but perhaps you could just have a quiet gentle word to her about that aspect. Let her know that you like talking to her about your culture. I'm not sure about the best way to let her know that you don't appreciate her negativity is - let me think about it.

  • railspider on 25/08/2017 - 09:05
    +7

    Is you employer a State of Federal Government? They should have a People helpline you can call, or a HR team that can address your concerns. Government jobs all have a very strict code of conduct, and racial stereotypes like you've just listed would be very heavily frowned upon.

    You should report her. However if you do, she'll likely be 'counselled' before being sacked, so you will have to deal with a potentially awkward work environment. But if her racism is bothering you, definitely report it.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 10:29

      I am employed through a 3rd party contractor. I think I will not be comfortable in an awkward work environment.

      • YellowDieselGolf on 26/08/2017 - 09:51

        It sounds like you're uncomfortable now.

        She's reaching the APS code of conduct. Report her.

        • Untameable on 26/08/2017 - 15:00
          +5

          I don't know about governments but as a third party contractor you're pretty much in trouble if you complain about anything.

          You're meant to take it up with your boss. Your boss either tells you to harden up or replaces you with someone else. You don't have any protection - you're not even a real full time employee.

          That's IMHO.

        • YellowDieselGolf on 27/08/2017 - 09:48

          Apologies - typo. She's breaching the code of conduct.

          @DoctorOwl:

          I've worked in government departments as APS and for two different contractors for 15+ years and I'd still speak to the equity advisor.

          Maybe you could start by taking notes after the incidents and then complaining once you've got clear evidence.

          There's no place for racism.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 09:13
    +20

    I'm just thankful of the ANZAC alliance for bringing us the Flight of the Conchords' Australia vs NZ episode. In the US I was watching a National Geographic Antarctica documentary and several New Zealanders went for a skinny dip and yelled "last one in is an Aussie". It's funny, but applied to other cultures it's racism. It would be nice if the rest of the World had underarm cricket bowling as a major tension and apple importation wars like we do as neighbours.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2gii2nenUg

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 14:09
      +8

      got a dead brain after reading this.

      • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 16:24
        +7

        Before, during and after, I think.

        • pjetson on 25/08/2017 - 16:27

          Ouch

        • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 20:03

          Lmao.

  • Some Human on 25/08/2017 - 09:23
    +37

    Typical Australian, "I'm not racist, but…"

    • dogboy on 25/08/2017 - 09:29
      +11

      Unlike other non-multicultural countries that seem to be proud of how racist they are and never get called out on it.

    • Slippery Fish on 25/08/2017 - 09:32
      +14

      I am not racist, but….

      Anywho I believe people are abit over sensitive these days, aussy humor is to be a bit tounge in cheek which is sometimes racial but it's generally not malicious.

      If your looking to get offended you will, but I think you need to look at how its intended.

      • Some Human on 25/08/2017 - 09:41
        +3

        Yes, people are over sensitive. Like I was watching the footy the other week and one player (from I think crows) jumped excitedly on another player (from opposing team, whom he'd been friends with for years) after kicking a goal and there was some huge uproar at how disrespectful it was. And I'm just sitting there all……………..are they profanity serious???

        • airzone on 25/08/2017 - 09:46
          +5

          "I demand you to provide me a safe space with trigger warnings so that I can work out a new way to victimise myself." >_<;

      • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 11:36
        +3

        Humor is always good and fun but she doesn't seem to be in a funny mood when she brings up such things.

      • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2017 - 16:05

        It's racial but it's not malicious?
        From which end-the giver or the receiver?

        • Slippery Fish on 26/08/2017 - 16:20

          Malice must have intent, how can the listener have malice lol.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2017 - 07:58

          @Slippery Fish: Because we choose the words we use-or most of us do.

        • Slippery Fish on 27/08/2017 - 09:17

          @4sure: your reply doesn't apply to mine, a listener can not project their desire to hurt someone, though they might want to after the person says there bs lol.

          Anywho I got your meaning, but I still believe you must stop analyse and interpret the intent of what they said.

    • par3000 on 25/08/2017 - 12:12
      +9

      Nothing defines a racist faster than "I'm not racist, but…"

    • gravewax on 26/08/2017 - 14:39
      +1

      with due respect it isn't clear from the post whether there is any racism involved here at all as the post is extremely vague. having a negative view about a faith , country or culture isn't necessarily racism. I have seriously negative views about all religions, that doesn't make me racist and it doesn't mean I treat or speak with people that think differently negatively. Everyone has a right to their views and opinions. The poster really needs to provide some context before anyone can say whether what was said is an issue. Though if something is making you uncomfortable you should speak up.

  • dogboy on 25/08/2017 - 09:28
    +2

    Seems like a good opportunity to help correct some of her views if you disagree with them or feel she is being too generalist.

  • IPYF on 25/08/2017 - 09:32
    +5

    We're not on site, so our opinions on the matter of whether or not you're experiencing racist behaviour are irrelevant. If this is concerning you, then review your work documentation to see if the person in question seems to be in breach of your company's diversity policy and/or expected code of conduct for staff. If you feel strongly that they are, then take this matter to your manager or an HR representative, ensuring you can properly articulate the behaviours of concern, along with dates, times, and specific wording of the remarks if possible.

    You'll almost certainly be asked to discuss the matter informally with the person in question in order to reach a personal resolution off the record. Most HR departments will make you do this first because they do not want to engage in difficult conversations themselves, and as soon as a formal discipline process is commenced, there's a paper trail and the company is opened up to future legal action if it becomes nasty. It's in most HR department's KPIs to do everything they can to de-escalate interpersonal staffing issues before they become formalised. This might seem to be quite unhelpful, but in reality having a conversation with a person about something they're doing that is upsetting you, mistaken behaviour or intentional, is usually the best way of resolving a matter. However, be aware that if you are asked to try and deal with this yourself that you're usually entitled to ask your manager to sit in on the conversation.

    Everyone has the right to feel comfortable at work, so I hope you can sort this out.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 11:38

      thanks :)

  • airzone on 25/08/2017 - 09:44
    +1

    Just be careful calling that sort of thing racist. A common counter-argument from bigots is "I'm not racist, Islam isn't a race, go educate yourself".

    • Krizy on 26/08/2017 - 01:48
      +3

      When people talk about how they don't like muslims they're usually talking about middle easterners. There's a reason Islam gets a bad rap from even the most pious Christian. They aren't anti-religious or anti-Islam, they're racist.

      • airzone on 26/08/2017 - 10:26
        +2

        That's only partially current. But it's beside the point.

        I'm warning the op against making a half baked comment to his colleague because it'll backfire and the colleague will have a license in their own mind to be directly patronising.

    • NABit on 26/08/2017 - 11:54
      +3

      I can't believe people like that exist… What ever happened to tolerance?? Just because some people live differently and detest our way of life, doesn't mean we can't live together in a happy world. Just because they're fleeing their country, doesn't mean ours is necessarily better. I'm mean, so what if terrorist attacks happen, the likelyhood of you being killed is less than a cork from a champagne bottle popping out and killing you. And it's nothing compared to what they go through in their country… I'm honestly so mad right now

      • airzone on 26/08/2017 - 12:41
        +1

        want a hug?

  • suzley on 25/08/2017 - 09:47
    -7

    If you are not Australian, how can you be working for a government department? Are you not naturalised?

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 11:40
      -4

      I am not an Australian born but got a citizenship status.

      • H_J on 25/08/2017 - 20:18
        +21

        If you are citizen, then you are Australian. Or maybe you have some racism idea need to be rectified.

        • KMeister on 26/08/2017 - 05:50
          +1

          HJ is partly right. If you've got the citizenship, you're an Australian, but the idea of racism got nothing to do with it.

        • H_J on 26/08/2017 - 08:52
          +10

          @KMeister: obviously, OP is using race as a definition to judge who is Australian.

        • Deridas on 26/08/2017 - 12:57
          +1

          H_J, well said.

          I think OP also has underlying issues to think about.

          We are all Australians working towards improving the community.

        • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2017 - 16:07
          -1

          @Deridas: You don't seriously believe that do you?

      • bhm133 on 26/08/2017 - 14:52

        I don't know why twoperspectives is being negged for saying they are not australian born but have citizenship.

        Seriously. Either people are not reading the post right or I'm missing something.

  • ATD on 25/08/2017 - 09:50
    +1

    How about instead of playing the racism card every time you feel a little sensitive on something, maybe you should just treat her comments with a grain of salt and move on. My experience is people play this card when they either want to verbally attack someone or don't have the ability to enter into a civilised discussion about the issue with that person. Its a two way street to be tolerant of other people.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 11:43
      +5

      Alright. So me speaking against Australian culture and picking up the negativity in the society will be acceptable too? or How about if I bring how aboriginals were killed for the sake of claiming the land, all the time in my conversations, will it be acceptable too?

      • ATD on 25/08/2017 - 12:53
        +5

        Say what you want to say - its a free country and I wouldn't have any problem discussing such points with you - one of the benefits I'm sure you were aware of when you decided to come to this country and stay. This is what I'm saying, if you are intolerant of other people's views, opinions and beliefs, why should people be tolerant towards your views, opinions and beliefs - the racist card is so commonly used prematurely in most cases in my opinion. Being a minority in a society doesn't give you extra benefits or rights over the rest of society. I've been to countries where the general population are very xenophobic, its just hidden behind a thin facade that isn't hard to break and be confronted with what they really think of you with no problem escalating it to physical violence. I would guess you are either from Indonesia, Brunei or Malaysia.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 19:55
          +4

          Wrong on many grounds mate.

          Opinions are most welcomed and i don't mind jokes etc but seems like you didn't get the point. If I use my opinions on your face to make you feel like you belong to the shittest and dirtiest place in this world and the faith (if you have any) is wrong and causing trouble, in conversation that began with "how beautiful the kangaroos are" 5 mins ago, you would definitely get what i am saying.

        • ATD on 25/08/2017 - 20:07
          +1

          @twoperspectives:

          I've got no idea what you are on about now. If you can't walk away from the situation, then man up and say something to the person you obviously have the problem with instead of giving a limited version of a story on here where you have elected not to give the whole story so people have a better idea of context. Maybe the problem is with you, the supervisor doesn't have a problem with what was said - we should just believe what you say because you want to throw out the racist card. You never complain about anything or anyone? Anyway, that's the last I'll say on this thread.

        • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 20:13

          @ATD: man up and stand up… Lol dude, I don't want to end up being in an awkward position. Since manager sitting next to her is not giving a damn, i am sure, being someone who recently got the job and has a small family to support here, won't escalate things in such a stupid manner. You need to read the topic title 10x and then read what you are understanding and writing.

        • Wallyt99 on 26/08/2017 - 01:43
          +2

          I generally agreed - but why take a guess at his nationality? You fell into your own trap there. Anyway clearly South Asian based on his slang. Given he is Muslim more likely Pakistani.

      • timthetoolman on 25/08/2017 - 19:45
        +4

        How is being racist Australian culture now? Isn't that in itself a pretty racist comment?

      • gravewax on 26/08/2017 - 14:41

        both those topics are perfectly acceptable. Neither is racism, it is a free country for you to discuss whatever you like.

      • demiurge on 26/08/2017 - 23:32

        Of course it is acceptable.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/08/2017 - 16:09
      +1

      "How about instead of playing the racism card every time you feel a little sensitive on something….."
      Then you talk about the need to be "tolerant".
      Maybe you can see the double standard that you have just articulated?

  • mick123 on 25/08/2017 - 10:05
    +7

    "I am not an Australian but I am Muslim from a Muslim country"

    Are you here on a holiday or temp PR?
    If you have a permanent PR/citizenship, you are Australian, no matter what you look like.

    • MITM on 25/08/2017 - 10:35
      +2

      Wrong, a PR needs a re-entry visa if returning from overseas (eg visiting home)
      All foreigners need visas to enter Australia - even kiwis.

      A PR can't vote - so not a full Australian with full rights.
      A PR can become an Australian (citizen) after 10 continuous years of residence.

      But a PR should act and behave like an Australian, "no matter what they look like".

      • enzioFirenze on 25/08/2017 - 11:39
        +2

        wait what? the last time I checked, it's 4 continuous years

        • MITM on 25/08/2017 - 12:11

          You mean somebody actually checks these things ?

        • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 19:56

          Its 4 years. You are damn right about it.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 11:43
      -1

      I don't know why you got these negs mate.

  • Ryanek on 25/08/2017 - 10:07
    +1

    I would voice your concerns to your HR department.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 14:09

      thanks mate.

    • KMeister on 26/08/2017 - 05:54
      +2

      I'd rather talk to the person concerned at first if I can. Running to HR for every issue is not appropriate.
      It's just people need to realise you don't have to agree with everyone and everything, but you've gotta respect each other.

      • Rochie on 26/08/2017 - 10:30
        +2

        Agreed. It is hard to judge this case with the information provided, however, in many cases people don't realise how insensitive they are. The Australian culture typically includes a bit of banter and can be perceived differently to other cultures. I always find it is best to speak directly to the person directly if you are unsure of their intentions. Raising the matter to HR can sometimes cause more conflict in the workplace.

  • altomic on 25/08/2017 - 10:21
    +6

    yeah, they are just opinions….of a small minded and probably insecure person.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 19:57
      -1

      Yeah thats true.

      • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2017 - 09:27
        -1

        Someone is giving -ves on most of my comments for some strange reasons.

  • Islund on 25/08/2017 - 10:36
    +5

    I have been in AU now for 34 years - things are changing but mainly with the younger and educated generation.

    Having said that - racists (IMO) are bred that way and rarely does that change.

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2017 - 19:58

      I agree.

    • demiurge on 26/08/2017 - 23:36

      That's a very dangerous line to take. I would rather think that racists are blinded, a lot of them would reconsider their positions if they are really put into other's shoes.

  • Euphemistic on 25/08/2017 - 10:58
    +8

    If you find it offensive, you should do something about it. There is no need for it.
    Options:
    1. Tell the person you are offended by what they are saying immediately they say it. Simply stating "I find what you just said offensive" might be enough to get it to stop, no need to explain it. Don't wait until some time after when they may not remember what they said.
    2. Tell your manager you find it offensive.
    3. Tell your HR support person.
    4. Tell your employer (you mention being a contractor)
    5. Escalate to a higher manager or HR person as required.

    You might need to familiarise yourself with any anti-bullying/harassment policies in your organisation before going ahead with 2-5.

    • KMeister on 26/08/2017 - 05:56
      +1

      This is the exact order to escalate it! Good stuff!

  • jaybees on 25/08/2017 - 11:12
    +26

    I've been here over 10 years, so my advice is to just play it cool - unless comments are directed at you personally that you find offensive, then you should probably make a complaint. People will always have their opinions, which doesn't actually imply they are racist. I believe Chinese made goods are crap and cheaply made. It doesn't necessarily mean I hate Asain people, on the contrary, I find interacting with them far more pleasant and easier to deal with than with Anglos. Does that mean I hate Anglos? Of course not, many Anglos I know will give you the shirt off their back if needed. A thick skin will serve you far better then having a chip on your shoulder if you plan on staying here in the long term. Embrace the good, decent people here and simply ignore the rest.

    • dealman on 27/08/2017 - 09:15
      +1

      This dude, listen to him.. The only practical advice that'll keep you in the job Long term.

    • [Deactivated] on 27/08/2017 - 09:31

      That's the top comment. I got the same answer here from most professional people here while others are discussing islam and life in Pakistan.

  • Beanvee on 25/08/2017 - 11:32

    If it's a government department, they will be under a strict government corporate policy and any breach of it is considered a serious violation. Report them to HR.

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