Hi good day everyone! I have a bit of an issue with my manager in regards with taking photos of my timesheet. When my manager found out about it she was quite furious and told me not to do it because it is illegal. I Tried to reason out with her by saying im only taking photo of my timesheet for record keeping purposes but she goes on saying that it is not allowed as per company policy. My question is does a company really have the rights/discretion to implement the said policy? If not what should i tell my manager? Any advice you can give me will be much appreciated. Thanks.
Taking Photo of Timesheets Prohibited
Mstenchavez on 31/08/2017 - 21:14
Comments
Yeah wouldnt mind jotting down my daily hours. But the thing is they dont keep the paper timesheets paper for long. Afaik 6 months and they shred it down to save storage space. They only keep excel spreadsheet of timesheets for above 6 months. I prefer photo in event of a dispute in terms of actual no of hours work versus no hours credited to payslip. jotting it down might be questionable to them if i use it as evidence. So as much as possible id like to take a photo of it.
See what HR say, but if you're not allowed, in the case of a dispute, having your own version would definitely put you in a strong position should they not be able to display it (shredded) and They don't let you take a copy.
But I'd definitely try to get an actual copy.
If you can't take photos, just record your own daily. If there's issues, they'd have to dig up there copy any way and you'd have yours. You could also ask for a look at the policy and what else it relates to. Maybe have a chat with the grumpy manager about whyit's in place to begin with.
Yeah wouldnt mind jotting down my daily hours. But the thing is they dont keep the paper timesheets paper for long. Afaik 6 months and they shred it down to save storage space. They only keep excel spreadsheet of timesheets for above 6 months. I prefer photo in event of a dispute in terms of actual no of hours work versus no hours credited to payslip. jotting it down might be questionable to them if i use it as evidence. So as much as possible id like to take a photo of it. My manager did not elaborate further as to why it is prohibited. Ive checked my employee handboook and no mention of the said policy
My possible hypothesis as to why your manager is freaking out about employees taking photographs of internal documents:
Manager is guilty of something and wishes to hide it, and is afraid of whistleblowers
There have been past cases of corporate espionage, or whistle blowing, or both
I would probably ask higher level management as to why you can't obtain your own personal timesheet for recordkeeping purposes.
Yeah spot on. Ive got the same theory as well. for the past 3 months ive never had problems with my actual no of work hours vs. no of hours creditd in payslip. So far that is.
I'll probably give hr a call about it first and see what happens.
Is it something you can take a screenshot of instead?
No. Our timesheet process is a bit old school. We write it down on a timesheet form. After 2 weeks my Manager encodes it in spreadsheet then spreadsheet is sent to payroll department for processing.
Are you being paid cash in hand?
No. My salary is credit on my transaction account and I get payslip every fortnight.
Ask them for a photo copy then, you've right to a copy of your time sheet surely.
Thing is they only retain the timesheet for 6 months i think? Or could be less then after that they shred it down. They only keep copy on excel spreadsheet
Yep. Photocopy seems a good idea.
Your times shouldn't be a 'secret' as they are a record of your pay entitlement. Maybe keep a spreadsheet?
Ask to see the policy on paper or for her to direct you to the area online where it mentions taking photos is illegal for that type of thing. IF she can't provide it I don't see what you're doing wrong.
Yeah id do that.but not after i talk to hr about it first i want to know first if its actually a company policy or my manager is just making shit up.
Ask to see the policy on paper
They shredded it to save space.
Lol..Either way they'd have something.
My timesheet is computer software, I just do Print Screen on the PC and print out a copy for my own use.
Wish our timesheet system is same as yours but Our system is a bit old school. We write it down on a timesheet form. After 2 weeks my Manager encodes it in spreadsheet then spreadsheet is sent to payroll department for processing.
Hey mate - that's a rather cool story, bro. Dude.
Make a Simple excel form and email it to her / tell her it's a business improvement idea / "paperless office" and she can cut and paste the hours so she has less work to do and file the timesheet electronically
I don't know why she is being funny unless she cooks books it's not exactly IP
hidden camera pen These usually have poor quality video, but if you set it to photo it should be good enough.
Her odd reaction makes it very possible she's doing something illegal with regards to the rostering or payments - even if it hasn't happened to you yet it may be happening to someone else. I'd tell her to get bent.
I cannot think of any basis on which it might be illegal, nor can I think of any legitimate justification for it being against company policy.
I assume the timesheet only records your hours worked?
There is nothing confidential in that information.Shouldn't be a problem
She's probably being dodgy
I'd be strongly tempted to send her and HR + the board a letter requesting a reason why you cannot make a copy of your own timesheet….
Common problem is with companies short changing hours worked
Never had a 'mistake' made in my favor
Not illegal. I hate the use of the word "illegal." People use it at if the police are going to bust through the door and start arresting people. It's hardly a criminal matter.
I would ask the manager where it is written in the company rules and ask for a copy of that. Unless there is some ultra proprietary time sheet at play here, I would keep taking photos until such time as company policy is shown to you in written form stating that you can not copy your own timesheet.
I would simply state that you are well within your rights to maintain a digital copy of your own time sheet for your own personal accounting purposes. If they use the word "illegal" to describe what you are doing, hand them a phone and tell them to call the police. If they say it's against company policy, ask to see the written company policy.
As other users have said above, your boss is hiding something. I would start going over your pay slips and check with fair work Australia. If my boss told me I can not take a copy of my time sheet, that would only want to make me do it more and be a lot more suspicious of why they are saying don't. I would request a copy of all your time sheets from the last 7 years and start comparing to what you have saved on your phone. Any alterations or time sheets that are not the same need to be reported immediately.
From the Fairwork Australia website about time sheets.
- Employers have to keep time and wages records for 7 years.
- If an employee asks to see their records, an employer must make them available.
Whilst it is not illegal, you can be given a "reasonable management directive" to not take photos in a workplace.
Start a notebook in which you keep track of the hours you work - this will stand up as valid evidence in case of any disputes.
I would also add to this that it is not unlawful in Victoria to make covert recordings without the knowledge of other parties to the conversation.
This is the sort of manager that I would record every interaction with for your own legal protection.
Employers have to keep time and wages records for 7 years.
Does it go into format?
I would imagine the spreadsheet they are copied into would suffice, therefore I don't see any issue with them shredding the paper document.
OP, do you know if your organisation uses payroll software to generate your payslip/PAYG summary? Or is it more manual based (ie. done in Word/Excel)?
Can you scan your timesheet each week?
Yes scan and email it to yourself. Otherwise photocopy.
Nobody would know or can stop you.
perhaps it's the photo that is the issue.
i'd just start making your own copy in google sheets (which has edit tracking) as you fill out the real one, if anything were to happen, aka them dodgying up some hours, i'm pretty sure your 99.99% correct copies that haven't been edited in months would look pretty good against the conspicuously different ones provided by the company who specifically told you not to take photos of the paper copies.
also if you're that worried ask an actual lawyer, but at some point your either going to have to take the manager to HR which will make working for her afterwards fun, or quit
As pegaxs pointed out, Fairwork require an employer to provide you with access to your timesheet records if requested. I would suggest that most would interpret that as providing you a physical copy or an email copy.
As to not photographing them, I would not leap to conclusions about your boss - they may just be communicating the policy badly or not actually understand them themselves. Nearly every place I have done work for in the last 15 years has had a fairly rigorous "no photographs in the workplace" policy because it is too hard to police what is being photographed or copied. Some actually require me to deposit my phone in a safe box before going into the facility. If I have to do a paper timesheet I photocopy it on a company copier before handing it in. Some of these machines document who used it etc and I enter my code and what I copied, so the company has visibility of who copies things. Some companies actually go as far as auditing what was copied, but not many and mostly defence related. I've never had any complaints about my photocopying a timesheet, and if it is an online timesheet system I always end up with a softcopy.
It may not be sinister - ask if you can have a photocopy of each timesheet and see what the response is. If the answer to that is no, then I would escalate it or take notes by hand. You can also try not making your need for the timesheet about trust (using it in disputes etc) and tilt it that you like understanding how you spend your time so you understand productivity issues and it gives you a chance for self-improvement and building efficiency :)-
I am experimenting with a few smartphone apps at the moment to record my time with the intention of submitting them electronically or transposing the details for companies that use paper. Early days yet, but it might be a thought for you - you always then hold the source document.
Good luck!
I would suggest there is nothing woring with taking a copy of your timesheet. But its how you do it. Why not photocopy the time sheet? As long as you dont copy other employees time sheets.
On first glance it sounds like a silly rule but some businesses do not permit photography on their premises, except under supervision and in some cases not at all. Eg schools, hospitals, defence facilities including contractors, police, financial institutions etc
If it really bothers Mstenchavez I would advise him to get a paper diary using ink record his own hours and also save his payslips. Recordings in pencil and electronic diaries can't be verified when they were recorded and so do not carry the same integrity as ink on paper which can be forensically verified, if required.
Use the record my hours app on the fairwork.gov.au website. A digital record is much better than notes as it is timestamped. Other option is to write your actual hours in a diary and take a photo of it each week which again time stamps it. Tell your manager that you are doing the second option! Ask them for the company policy in writing.
Alternatively, you could copy the blank time sheets, make about 20 or so, then when you fill in your original for work, also do a copy for yourself to keep separately. Old school and more time consuming, but shouldn't ruffle any feathers I would think.
Does the timesheet list anything that could be commercially sensitive, eg names of clients or projects you're working on?
Am I correct in assuming that your daily timesheets are listed alongside other staff, and therefore possibly the reason why you cannot take a copy of it? You should not be privy to what hours other staff are being paid for.
I concur with most other posts. Write it down, if there's an issue with your pay, you'll clearly raise the issue BEFORE the originals are thrown out/disposed of. If you write it down, and they paid you the right amount, you'll have an actual payslip to reflect what you're seeking.
Even 2 months later is too long to raise an issue with a timesheet, and they'll still have the originals at that time.
Is there possibly another reason you're looking to keep the timesheets? As also mentioned above, companies can be sensitive with this type of information, especially in a labour intensive environment where rostering and the like are core to the business making money.
I don't know the legality of it, but if it's going to be an issue, maybe just keep a notepad to jot down your times.