Just read an email from ING having following message. I am angry. Will need to find a new bank with lesser onerous conditions and move my business.
What do you guys think?
Get the highest variable rate
To earn our highest variable savings rate on your Savings Maximiser – currently 2.80% p.a. – every month you’ll need to deposit your pay of $1,000 or more and from March 2018 also make five or more card purchases each month. Available on one account on balances up to $100,000.
only annoying thing about MAC is that you can't deposit cash at post offices. FYI.
so how to deposit cash? they have no branch.
deposit into citibank plus at post office, then xfer away
you can also do it at a NAB branch. I saw a sign in Sydney branch on castlereigh they accept Macquarie bank deposits.
Also looking for alternatives - Not too impressed by this right now.
AMP Bett3r account for me.
Have been with ING S/M since year 2000.
After gradual erosion of all the benefits over the years, they have finally sent me the deal breaker with this 5 transactions/month nonsense.
Looking for alternatives post March 2018!
Do they have to be each week like ME Bank?
Not to play the devils advocate here but is it really that bad?
I would easily do over 5 card transactions each month with them just in grocery shopping.
I get that other people would have it setup for them differently and it sounds as though that the ones who will be most affected by this bank with another company and transfer to ING purely for savings? On a side note apparently Ubank is pretty equal to what ING were offering so maybe that is another option.
Side note: Not associated with ING other than a customer with 4 accounts
I think the issue is that serious OzBargainers will use a credit card with reward points for all purchases. So this affects people who use ING as their main savings account too. I personally would probably be happy using the ING card for all purchases under $10 and my credit card for everything else but that is a minor inconvenience I didn't have before. It does make me more willing to look at alternatives such as Macquarie.
It's a ridiculously minor inconvenience - buy coffee. At any place with a loyalty card, you can even track when you've hit 5x.
I sort of agree but I don't think that's the problem. I put everything on my credit card. I strongly prefer that - it keeps things simple and I want my banking to be simple. This is on the surface a small change - now I use the ING card for transactions under $10. Easy.
But from my experience with the ME Bank deal where you had to make one purchase per week on their card, it's actually a bit of a hassle. Pulling out my credit card is second nature. I'd often find myself walking away after a small transaction thinking, "Oh, this was one of those 1 in 20 occasions where I should have used the other card". It's a small thing to be sure but it requires me to stop and think about which card I'm going to use when I make a purchase. And for this minor extra cognitive load, what do I get? Free ATM withdrawals, just like I had last month without this (I don't need the international stuff). As I say, yes it's minor but when there's other options with similar benefits that let me use my cards how I want, what incentive is there to stay with ING? I was happy when they offered cashback and other incentives. Now there doesn't seem to be any reason to stay with them at all.
you had to make one purchase per week on their card
Yeah, I'd see that as being more hassle than 5x transactions per month too. About 4x more of a hassle because it's something you need to remember every week vs every month.
But everyone has their own threshold for how much BS they'd put up with to save some dough, and I think people on OzB probably have a higher one than most…
I use ING purely to park savings and don't bother using the credit card. I'll be moving money from ING because it no longer meets my needs.
I agree with your comment. I'm a "hybrid" in this conversation … I use my ING "cash" card for micro purchases, e.g. morning coffee, etc. I use my actual credit card with points earning for "larger" purchases, e.g. at the supermarket, etc.
You realise you're also losing the 45days interest free period by using ing cash! that's 45 days at whatever your mortgage offset would have saved you, PLUS the points on your credit card, PLUS having to carry an extra card
First and foremost, I don't have a mortgage so no interest savings there for me.
In terms of the points, I'd be lucky to rack up $10 a month in points for the amount I'm putting through. I can cop that opportunity loss.
My ING card is saved into my phone's payment system, so don't need to carry the extra card.
The same conditions also get you no foreign transaction fees on international purchases and refunds of international atm fees.
(From March until March you only need to deposit 1K)
Here’s how it works
Deposit your pay of $1,000 or more every month, and
From March 2018, also make 5+ card purchases every month using your Orange Everyday or Orange One (excluding ATM withdrawals, balance enquiries, cash advances, EFTPOS cash-out only transactions)
and receive the following in the next calendar month
No ING international transaction fees
When you travel or shop with overseas retailers.
ATMs worldwide
In addition to free ATMs in Australia, we’ll rebate the ATM fee within five business days at any ATM around the world (the Orange One cash advance fee still applies).
If you are living overseas and make 5 purchases are you still eligible for the rebate? Or do the transactions have to be done in Australia? Hope someone can answer 😊
As long as the transactions are done by your visa card not from the account, it will qualify the conditions, no matter where the transactions are.
As I'm easily confused by financial ambiguity I called them to confirm that the 5+ condition applied to Aus ATM rebate.
It does.
You will no longer get free ATM in Auz if you do not meet the 5+ condition. Interesting twist given there is this move for the big banks to give us free ATM at the moment. Also means if you want to get the international benefit and do not routinely do the 5+ you will need to plan ahead. As the benefit applies for the following month.
Or maybe just transfer the cash from your ING to Citibank.
I agree… ING is turning into a freakin power retailer… different tier of savings percentages.. too many rules to understand and digest…!
from March 2018 also make five or more card purchases each month.
How's this onerous? I mean, you surely get coffee more than 5x a month right?
Well it's onerous because I like using my cards the way I want. I always thought that ING's core business was mortgage and other types of lending. They are already earning money by using my deposit/savings to service there loan customers or earning on investments at a rate greater than 2.8%. I think they should not be screwing over customers who keep their savings with them.
Im with Ubank - get on it
Agreed. Easy - deposit $200 pcm 2.87%
I don't think this is actually that big a deal (at least in my circumstance), however I do note that ING seem to be slowly, but surely reducing the ease/value of their products.
More and more conditions seem to be getting layered up to access the best deal ING offer … and that best deal is not what it used to be.
That said, the assessment of whether or not to use ING (or anyone else) needs to be made on whether it is the best product for your circumstances, not just that the deal is a little worse than it used to be.
I think I might keep my ING Orange Every Day account active, just for the benefit of being able to deposit cash at our local post office, which I can then transfer to another bank. If I am forced to make a paywave transaction every week, ME Bank is a better option with a higher interest rate paid on a higher deposit. They also allow cash deposits at specific post offices. The only thing is, I'd be pretty pissed if I forgot to make a transaction one week and missed out on the bonus interest.
Macquarie Bank looks a reasonable option too, but they require you to keep a minimum $25K in the account to get the bonus interest. Their interest rate is also lower, but there are less hoops to jump through.
These are the pros and cons as I see them.
ING Savings Maximiser- Interest rate 1.35% plus 1.45% bonus = 2.8%
ME Bank - Interest rate 1.30% plus 1.65% bonus = 2.95%
Macquarie Bank - Interest rate 1.30% plus bonus 1.35% (first 4 months for new accounts) = 2.65% (dropping to 2.30% after 4 months)
UBank Usaver with Ultra - Interest rate 1.81% plus bonus 1.06% = 2.87%
I haven't jumped yet as I'm interested to see where this discussion goes and if there are better options.
Nice Summary
One more to add
Rams Saver - Interest rate 1.35% plus bonus 1.65% = 3.00%
- Minumim $200 - Maximum $500,000
- $200 monthly deposit required
- No withdrawals
Thanks. Unfortunately, the no withdrawals would count Rams out for me.
I am kind of leaning towards Rams too… It's just I would need to plan my deposits since withdrawals are not allowed… :$
- Minumim $200 - Maximum $500,000
Probably important to mention that Government Guaranteed Deposits are protected up to $250,000 only.
For anyone coming across this thread regarding alternative banks (haven't found a newer one), RAMS have since dropped their rate.
It's now 1.35% plus bonus 1.45% = 2.80%.
Conditions are still the same.
Good analysis.. most useful comment.. thanks…!
I'm with ME, and I'm reasonably happy with them. One tap and go per week and that's all I need to maintain the account/interest
Thanks for this! I was scrolling down hoping someone would write a summary :) Cheers
I'll add in another option, using Wombat format -
Don't forget AMP! Their at 3%
I need to start looking for a website that can charge my card 5x1cents every month.
They can keep the 5cents :D
Self serve checkouts at supermarkets with partial payments?
yeah, thats the only option I have at the moment. But it would be nice say if I can set an automatic card payment for tiny amounts.
Would be a good business idea. Automatically take payment every month.
Not sure what to say when the woolies/coles attendant comes and ask what am I doing when they see me taping the same card over and over…:)
They don't care and never ask, I did many times in front of them.
No website would do that because they're paying more in fees per transaction so would be making a loss.
True!
Need to look at what paypal charge. I'm sure I've paid sub dollar amounts for ebay products in the past.
You can use PayPal to pay your friends or family, 1 cent + 1 cent fee = 2 cents
So if I have two transactions accounts with ING, does that mean I have to do 5 card purchases on them… each?
If you want to earn bonus interest and all of the other benefits then yes you must do it for both.
This from the ING facebook page:
Wendy Murphy Just a quick question - we have 2 everyday accounts. Do I only need to make 5 card transactions from one of the accounts or both?
ING Australia Hi Wendy. Meeting the criteria on one account will cover both accounts for the benefits. Let us know if you have any further questions.^Corrinne
Oh phew, that's a relief. Thanks for that.
Also worth noting that you can't, for example, do 3 transactions on one card and 2 on the other.
ING Australia I can confirm that by making 5 card transactions on one of your Orange Everyday accounts, you will be eligible for the benefits on both of your Orange Everyday accounts. Please keep in mind the 5 transactions will need to be completed on the same debit card and cannot be split across the two accounts. ^Sophia
People complain that ING Requires five transactions a month to get bonus interest.
Offer suggestion that we switch to ME bank… which requires at least 4 and you have to remember to do one per week…. internet logic!
ME Bank has had that requirement for a long time. ING has just added this requirement after heaps people have been banking with them for a long time. It's different.
Another suggestion is Amp's Bett3r account, 3% interest with a monthly deposit of $2000 or more.
Does online payment using debit card count as a transaction for ING?
Not sure.. might have to ask reps.
Yes.
'Card purchases includes in store credit or EFTPOS purchases, online purchases, regular card payments, payWave, Apple Pay, and Android Pay transactions made with an Orange Everyday Visa card, Orange One or Orange One Platinum Visa card or Nil Interest Visa card provided with an eligible ING home loan. Card purchases made in store or online this current calendar month which settle next calendar month do not count towards the 5 card purchases needed this current calendar month.'
Does this include paypal purchases using the ING debit card?
I link my Acorns account to withdraw money from ING every day. Does this count?
I make 5 transactions with my ING card a day, let alone a month. No change to me.
Very annoyed by this. Im out. Bugger you ING, time to find a better alternative!!
Just keep adding more and more regulations to the account
Get stuffed ING.
Won't bother recommending it to anybody.
Might have to suss out Me Bank
My idea is this….
Set up a Square payment processing account to another transaction bank account (NAB for example with no account fees)
Set up 5 x recurring payments for $1 each per month.
Pay invoice (and save card) with ING Orange Visa debit card
Then we're only paying 2.2% in transaction fees = $0.11 per month
At the end of the year buy yourself something nice with the $58.68~ you've saved in your NAB account!
I'm not 100% sure if it would work but I think it could be plausible.
The most important thing is that to ING the payments would need to be viewed as standard online purchases, not direct deposits. According to the wording, I believe direct deposits would not count towards the 5 payments. For reference, the exact terms and conditions are as follows:
"Card purchases includes in store credit or EFTPOS purchases, online purchases, regular card payments, payWave, Apple Pay, and Android Pay transactions made with an Orange Everyday Visa card.. Card purchases made in store or online this current calendar month which settle next calendar month do not count towards the 5 card purchases needed this current calendar month."
https://www.ing.com.au/pdf/Orange_Everyday_Fees_and_Limits_S…
That's my thinking behind the use of Square.
It's a payment processor (you know those portable credit card readers to take payments) which allows you to automatically issue invoices and pay with a Visa, which should then display as a standard purchase using the card
As far as ING would be aware, you are just paying a subscription fee from a website (just like Netflix for example)
I've set it up, so I guess now I just wait and see if it pans out in March!
Edit: oh also when I say recurring payments, I mean Square issues a charge to the card 5 times every month, not a recurring deposit within ING
@Console:
I set it up a few days ago and no fees which is good. I'll let you know how it goes in March anyway
It also seems like they just take a percentage of payments and not the old "30c + 1.7%"!
Thanks for the idea! Spent 5-10 minutes trying to set up recurring PayPal payments before determining it's not easy if it's not actual commercial transactions/subscriptions. Square made it super-easy. Looks like they do per-transaction rounding, too, so it's only gonna cost $0.10 per month and not $0.11 ;-)
Oooooo! The plot thickens
Do you need to buy a Square reader in order to facilitate these transfers?
No reader required, recurring invoice ($1/month x 5 invoices) to your email address, type in your card number in browser and give it permission to save/rebill monthly.
@lachlanww: Did you have any luck getting the billing to recur? My invoices recurred, but even though I told Square to saved my cc info last month, I'm having to enter it again this month.
Still relatively satisfied with this method since at least it reminds me to make the 5x transactions and makes it easy.
@mjp80:Hey, would appreciate if you, or lachlanww, can confirm what you are using. Is it this service and is it indeed 2.2% as advertised? A bit confused by dfk367's comment, but he might be using something else. Thanks in advance.
@bluesky: Hey bluesky sorry I forgot to reply to your comment. Square deposited 98c into my account so indeed the fee is 2.2%. I am still concerned about the GST aspect though as it is up to vendors/businesses to collect GST on the government's behalf isn't it?
@dfk367: No worries .. Oh, then it is correct. As for GST, if you (the invoicer) are not registered for GST, you won't need to collect it from the "person invoiced" and pay it to ATO. So, it's fine.
I have just tested it by doing a $1 payment, GST for some reason is taken as 9c so the total amount received by the account linked to the Square account is 91c. Repeating this 5x per month will actually cost 9c x 5 = 45c
Are you using this and isn't it simply 2.2% as stated ?
Also, rather surprised that Square would concern itself with the GST of the invoice, or to deduct it. Any more details you can share about this? Thanks.
GST just shows on the invoice, they don't take it and remit it to the ATO. My invoices show $0.09 of GST on a $1 invoice but I am still getting $0.98 per invoice direct deposited.
Even if you were a proper business, I'm pretty sure if you're under $75,000/year of turnover then you don't have to remit GST.
Regarding the ATM rebates while overseas. It also applies that you need to make 5 purchases on the debit card. If you are living overseas and make 5 purchases are you still eligible for the rebate? Or do the transactions have to be done in Australia? Hope someone can answer 😊
The best people to answer would be people working at ING.
Heh, just got an email that they added a requirement of 5 visa card payments within Australia to get the Australian ATM rebate. Their costs for that must have plummeted already with banks cancelling the fee recently, but now they want to apply even more rules. I'm out.
I am looking for alternates as well.. Haven't found one without a withdrawal restriction. Found that it's easy to make 5 transactions though. Just do your weekly groceries once with their card. The no international transaction fee is also based on these conditions.
Yes, but I hate having to keep trivial info in my memory just to save $5 or $10 per month.
How about making 5 purchases on an Australian website while overseas? Would that qualify? Or could I order an extra card and get mum to do 5 shops in Australia and still qualify overseas?
I don't know.
I am looking for alternates as well.. Haven't found one without a withdrawal restriction. Found that it's easy to make 5 transactions though. Just do your weekly groceries once with their card. The no international transaction fee is also based on these conditions.
I've gone to uBank. Easy street again.
Does anyone know if we need to start doing 5 transactions in February or March (i.e. whether the March start date refers to when the 5 transactions requirement starts or when the qualification requirement is changed)?
Just my interpretation: it is March when you need to do the 5 transactions. And that would be to qualify for any bonuses in April.
thanks. that's the interpretation I'm leaning towards but it's not awfully clear from the way it's written
My notice of the change just came through today and I jumped on to ozb to see others having the same issue. That's it for me for ING, they've become too difficult to do business and WAY TOO GREEDY. That's my perception at least. Good bye and good riddance.
Bye bye ING
I have also received my notice of change. It includes the condition of using Card for 5 transactions per month. Although it shouldn't be much but I feel frustrated.
When we deposit funds in savings accounts, we're not expecting use of debit cards with 5 transactions as a condition to get the full interest! Bearing in mind that the banks are not simply doing us a favour - they are actually taking these funds that we place with them, and using them to generate a higher return through their lending arms which charge a higher interest!
ING have steadily become harder and harder to bank with. I'm going to tell everyone I know to stay away and suggest we all do. Bad behaviours like this shouldn't be encouraged. On a side note, who knows what the Royal Commission will dig up as that unfolds?
If I open an account today. Deposit $1k before the end of the month will I be able to redeem fee free withdrawals & rebated fees overseas in March? (given benefits take effect following month t&c)
Yeap. You don't need the 5x card transactions at this stage yet, only the $1K deposit. But if you want the benefits in April, in March, you also need the 5x card transactions.
perfect! thanks for the confirmation. mainly need it for japan in march
I'm looking at either ubank or Macquarie to migrate over from ING now