Bitcoin is over $15000 USD - (07/12/2017)

Hi All,

Just wondering what is your thought of BITCOIN which is well over $15000 USD.

I was monitoring that since it was $1100. Now its 14x and i was thinking $#/+ that is expensive a year ago and now i am thinking the same.

Any thought what do you think of it.

Its hit today $19230+ USD.

Poll Options

  • 160
    I own it
  • 86
    I own it and buying more
  • 75
    I dont own it and want to buy it
  • 438
    I dont own it and dont want to take risk
  • 36
    Bitcoin is not for OZBARGAINERS.


  • +1

    All I want is a physical bitcoin which you can buy on eBay for $1.16

    • Will you still wait for a 20% off promo code?

  • Monday's gonna be fun, we'll see if there is any proper market manipulation

    • So what happened today (Monday) ?

  • I purchased $5 worth of bitcoin via Coinbase (yes, I know it was dumb) earlier this evening to try things out. Ended up with 0.00019 coins. Now it wants to charge me A$20.77 to withdraw my bitcoins. Is there any way to get even part of my money back from this, or am I screwed out of $5 basically?

    • I'm not familiar with Coinbase, but now Bitcoin is more a store of value, rather than a currency. If you transfer it to an offline wallet or other exchange, bitcoin transfer fees are now around $5-$10. So it's not worth transferring it anywhere. You would be best to forget about it and come back in a few years to see if its worth enough to withdraw.

      • Thanks, was afraid of that. Not much choice but to sit on it now I guess.

    • +3

      It seems you only got $2.85 of coins.

      I’ll take them off your hands; however the transaction fee will eat into any “sale”.

      $5 is cheap for a lesson about transaction costs and buy sell spreads :)

      • I got 0.00019523 BTC to be precise :) $1 was the transaction fee. So the spread wasn't too bad. I just wasn't expecting the withdraw fee to be so high. If Coinbase allowed Australian users to sell their bitcoins I'd be able to recoup a few dollars from my little experiment, but alas they don't even have that option. Lesson learnt indeed.

        • Can you trade it for another coin there with lower TX fees?

        • +1


          If he owned a bitcoin he could trade it elsewhere.

          What he has is a share of a bitcoin that is held by Coinbase so he can only go through coinbase.

          There's a couple of lessons here:

          One is to always be aware of transaction costs when trading in shares.
          The second is to understand how the market in which you are trading shares is regulated.
          Coinbase is not regulated like the ASX.

          Is based in Aus so can trade to aud and Aussie banks but as mentioned it will cost a fair bit to move it

    • The cost of transferring coins at the moment is high due to number of transactions. Wait, and it will eventually drop.

    • I didn't think you could sell on Coinbase? Australia isn't a supported country?

      • It's partially supported - you can buy coins via Coinbase using $AUD, but you can't sell coins for $AUD. You need to transfer to another local exchange if you want to do that. Frankly I don't trust exchanges anyhow, so after purchase at some point I'd suggest transferring the coins to a local (encrypted/secure) wallet.

    • Coinbase might be the easiest platform to buy bitcoin but they have crazy expensive fees. Try selling it via coinbase and transfer the AUD back to your bank account?

  • Is it true if most of us had bought bitcoins back in 2009 like we all wish, the price would never have gone up like this? Most of us would be losing money now or making insignificant profit.

    • +3

      If you mean "us" as in Ozbargainers, then no, we'd all be rich (we're a drop in the ocean).

      If most of "us" (people in the world) tried to buy them in 2009, then the price would have been like $1,000,000 per coin back then, some people would have become super rich, others would have lost money.

  • I know the feels, I was trading them when they were around $50. I also lost 1 or so on an old hard drive.

  • +3

    I've read various opinions. One comment I saw said the government has no way of knowing what you have in/transfer to bitcoin (and the like). But tax returns ask if you have bitcoin - so which is true - they do, or don't know you're using it and how much you have parked there?

    Personally, I think it stinks government sticks its hand out if bitcoin jumps in value, when they certainly won't give anything back if it crashes. Like the rare times I've dealt with Centrelink… It's none of their damn business if I sell something in a garage sale. I already 'paid' the government from wages before I bought it, paid GST again WHEN I bought it, the item was mine, so the cash is all mine too!

    Btw… WHERE can you learn about cryptocurrency? Concise and sensible learning I mean. Not some random from a search engine, and not a bunch of excess waffle just to fill a page?

    • +2
    • +2

      These lectures are pretty concise and helpful:

    • doesn't matter what they do or don't know anyway.. ATO has already declared their position - it's an asset that attracts capital gains tax when buying/selling the same as shares, property etc.. it's up to residents to record transactions for accounting purposes, self disclose at tax time like anything else they'll say ignorance is no excuse.. and knowing and not disclosing is fraud.

      • I get that. But there's like the Centrelink example above: I'm sure no-one tells Centrelink they made $xxx from their garage sale. Yet in one of my few dealings with them that's exactly what they told me with a straight face I had to do! Pay government three times on the same (and reduced because I'm selling secondhand possessions) money!? They can forget it.

        So I'm wondering two things: First, does government have access to bitcoin like they do with banks and can tell you haven't declared via data matching (can see what each person made)? Second, if government can't see that - aren't there bitcoin ATMs where you can swap bitcoin for cash?

        Because if government don't have that access, and you withdrew profits from a bitcoin ATM in cash…

        • +1

          yep there's likely ways to commit fraud, as there are with anything.. technically u could sell ur house for cash and not declare it if someone was buying houses with cash :) pretty much everything relies on us to self-disclose and comply with the law and keep records to prove our disclosures in case of an audit. if they wanted to do an investigation they could possibly ask you for your wallets and then trace all the transactions to/from it? again you would have to give them the wallets or (hinder an investigation?).. but they can't go do a database and lookup all wallets owned by Greg as they can a bank account.

          your centrelink example i agree you shouldn't pay tax multiple times on items.. but thats not what centrelink does? they're asking u to disclose income so they can possibly reduce government payouts (ie; free money).. they're not asking you to pay taxes on garage sale income. (i'd agree that majority of ppl likely don't disclose sale of possessions though :) just saying I don't think the centrelink example compares to declaring capital gains.. ones paying taxes.. ones getting free money.. I don't deal with centrelink much either but I don't know of any cases where they ask you to pay them a cut of anything.

        • +2

          @ozmian: I just look at the way 'the system' (taxation/government) is set up… In such a way to demotivate people.

          e.g. You get a job cleaning toilets, pay tax, pay to service your van, pay an accountant to get deductions because you don't have time to understand due to working, you get limited time with your family, ruin your hands and health, can't take time off, etc… Whereas someone else cons a doctor to sign off on a disability pension, they sit at home with their family relaxing. They have less money sure. But they find ways to get by, with all sorts of freebies/discounts/even incentives - that make it about even at the end of the day but without much real effort.

          Or to bring it back to investing… Say I become injured, have to inform Centrelink of my assets. I decide to buy $60,000 of bitcoin. It loses half it's value the first month. I update my 'assets' with Centrelink again. They don't give that person anything back for their loss. In fact they probably still owe because they worked x months that year - the ATO probably dock them at tax time.

          But next month bitcoin doubles - back to the same amount they originally put in. Centrelink probably now says, "You just earned $30,000 overnight! You'll get no more money from us for x months."

          I don't know the specific figures, but the person effectively earned nothing. Although they've come out even, they've lost Centrelink payments and now have to withdraw and live on that money, LOL!

          I'm sure this is why many people don't bother - don't work - don't learn - don't invest. Too scared of being penalised for it. Which creates unnecessary burden on the taxpayer because those people know it's safer to sit in a chair and have the 'security' of what/when your next payment will be.

          I know I've simplified this and there's 'deeming', etc. It just irritates me. For some reason I see tax from wages as one thing, but profiting from selling a car because I spent hours detailing and upgrading it, or from investing using my brain along with some luck, should be all mine. Just like I wouldn't tell the ATO if I found a $20 note blowing along a remote beach.

          Don't know why I see the two differently, but I do.

  • +1

    John McAfee‏
    Why the price of Bitcoin cannot be a bubble:

  • +2

    As of tomorrow with the advent of a USA exchange accepting Bitcoin derivatives, you'll no longer need an actual Bitcoin to join the ride IMHO

    To short or not to short will be the question! ;-)

  • Bitcoin poses a huge threat to the financial system as we know it and there are numerous people out to discredit it. Having worked in financial markets with major international banks for over a decade, I know that the people who want to discredit it will unfortunately win. I’m a huge fan of bitcoin and believe it is the best way forward for society and creating a more level playing field globally. The way the large players will discredit Bitcoin it is to manipulate the price (and yes, futures will assist in this process). Right now it is going through an accumulation stage to push prices higher, but we will see a major crash very soon. I really want Bitcoin to maintain credibility, but it is almost impossible for smaller interests to compete when the larger players set out to destroy credibility. If you need evidence of this, you only have to look at the attacks of currency traders on many national currencies resulting in rapid inflation and ultimately ruining local economies.

    • Um… But they do that to buy low and sell high. Doesn't that mean there's not much point in them destroying bitcoin, because either they get their timing wrong and lose out like everyone else, or, they can't make gains again by buying low and waiting because it's now wiped out!?

      • I believe the motivation is less about making gains and more about destroying the threat, although there is opportunity to make gains by drawing in interest during the price rise and exiting before those people exit. Bitcoin has the potential to remove the need for foreign currency markets (ie. one global currency), which are some of the most lucrative and highest volume markets in the world (more than $5 trillion USD per day). Contrast that to bitcoin, which only trades at around $4 billion USD per day, so even at the current prices, it is still a relatively small market and outside players easily have the resources and capability to enter and manipulate it.

        • Welcome to Ozbargain, thanks for joining to warn us.
          What your saying sort of makes sense to me, provided these people are forward-thinking enough (eg. more forward thinking than our federal government). I hope you're wrong :)
          I personally have not put in anything I can't afford to lose, so I'll hold out and see what happens.

  • The US FEd are saying they are not worried about Bitcoin as it is not a very big entity and the volumes of trads are not very large for them to worry…

    • Is the absolute number of generated whole Bitcoins limited to 21 or 23 million units!?

      • +1


      • yes 21 million .. and more then half of it has already been mined… now I'm telling you this.. how can 21 million of anything replace global currencies and be used for buying things like candy that costs around $0.20c

        Well sir for your candy purchase.. that will cost you. 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 bit coin.. thank you for your purchase. :)

        At the rate its going bit coin will be at 1 billion per coin by the time it runs out in 2140

        • Millibitcoins and satoshi

  • +2

    PSA for anyone dabbling in crypto (Slightly OT).

    If you've been trading crypto and have participated in ICOs and received airdropped alts, be prepared for an ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE when it comes to preparing your tax return. The guidance provided by ATO is muddy AT BEST, and patently unhelpful in certain scenarios.

    Be warned, for some inscruitable reason, crypto to crypto transactions are not considered like-for-like (based on my read of ATO literature on the matter) so at every point you may have capital gain events.

    • Not "inscruitable" (sic) at all. Capital gain events on Crypto to Crypto transactions are consistent with the tax treatment of selling shares to buy other shares.

      • Sorry for the typo. :) Didn't notice that.

        Capital gain events on Crypto to Crypto transactions are consistent with the tax treatment of selling shares to buy other shares.

        I was under the impression when shares are liquidated there is a intermediary state where it is in FIAT.

        Crypto-crypto trades would be on the pairings, e.g. ETH/XBT and trades would involve "swaps" where one crypto is directly traded for the other.

        I was not referring to trades of this nature: ETH > FIAT > BTC.

        • +1

          A capital gain event is triggered when you are no longer the owner of that asset.

          So when you sell shares, it is at that point the CGT event is triggered. It still happens if I say sell ANZ and swap to CBA a CGT event has occurred.

          So a swap from one cryto to another is the same sort of event.

        • @Baysew:

          Righto. As I said before, I thought there were CGT exemptions for like-like transfers.

          My understanding when it comes to CGT in share trading is fair enough because the trade is something like this: share > FIAT > share

          Which makes more sense to be taxed at CGT as a "monetary profit" is realised in the intermediary step. My previous share liquidations were fine and fairly straight-forward. Just struggling to see the applicability in the direct "shapeshift" type transfers between cryptos.

          In crypto-crypto pairings it didn't make sense (to me) because there is no intermediary FIAT involved. i.e. nothing is being cashed out. That said, I am beginning to understand why this has been structured the way it is.

          Either way, trading crypto is a minefield which has some very significant tax implications. Interesting thread on reddit:

        • +1

          @gearhead: I lost a few BTC when exchanges died / ran off with my funds. What does this mean in terms of tax?
          If I bought 6 BTC for AU$1000 each, and then lost 2 in exchange exits scams, and then I sold my 4 remaining BTC for AU$40,000 — does this mean I pay the capital gain tax as though I went from $6,000 -> $40,000? Or is it $4,000 -> 40,000?

          My accountant didn't really understand the question…

        • @gearhead: Seems I was on the right track

          Moving from one cryptocurrency to the other is a change of assets, hence a capital gains tax event. I do agree there can be very burdensome accounting and tax issues due to this.

          It's the volume of trading that quickly becomes overwhelming.

          Say if I buy one Bitcoin or Shares today and sell a year or so later pretty easy to figure out.

          If I buy and sell shares or Cyrptos once a week, I have 104 transactions to figure out

        • +2


          Seems I was on the right track

          Aye my friend. :)

          If I buy and sell shares or Cyrptos once a week, I have 104 transactions to figure out

          and to add some more turd to the punchbowl… imagine the taxation implications of:
          1. Market sell/buy orders on a crypto pairing. You could potentially have a large number of mini-trades at differing price points all along the order book which will truly be a pain in the bollocks to reconcile.

          1. Airdropped cryptos… akin to finding money on the sidewalk (and similar monetary valuation lol). Capital gain 100% of the sell price.

          2. Forks. E.g. ETC vs ETH, BTC vs BCH etc. Money out of thin air. This was quite confusing to explain to my accountant.

          3. Participation in ICOs. Sending ETH to a smart contract to receive DAO tokens. Buy a cryptokitty? Purchasing goods for a service?

          4. Every time you want to put money into the system, this would typically involve buying BTC and sending the BTC to exchange and then buying alts/whatever. Thats FIAT > BTC > ALT. That's a capital gain event right there. :D

          I dabbled in some trading very sporadically yet my logs were truly gigantic (especially since I used 3 different exchanges since not all of them list all popular tokens). It took me over 2 weeks to reconcile (~20+ hours).

          If I bought 6 BTC for AU$1000 each, and then lost 2 in exchange exits scams, and then I sold my 4 remaining BTC for AU$40,000 — does this mean I pay the capital gain tax as though I went from $6,000 -> $40,000? Or is it $4,000 -> 40,000?

          IMHO (I'm not an accountant as you can see from my clear as mud understanding above):

          You made 100% losses on 2 BTC. 2000 went to 0.
          You made a capital gain on 4 BTC. 4000 became 40000 so your CGT is applicable on the capital gain on 36,000.
          So I'm guessing net capital gain would be 34,000 (minus the loss from the 2 BTC). If I'm not wrong.

          Found a very good article on crypto-crypto transactions:

          I reckon I'm going with these guys as my accountants next time around (not spruiking their services, just seem pretty knowledgeable).

        • +1

          @Baysew: ..and if you opt in to a share buy in/ dividend re-investment plan.. how many shares you acquired and at what price. If you sold all after say 9 years, you may have 18 different buy in prices / CGT calculations for one sale.

          Good point above. If you have mined currency, your CGT base would be $0 I guess? Perhaps this makes you a primary producer!

        • +1

          @gearhead: Thanks. Good to see accountants actually blogging about crypto instead of me having to explain it.
          I might do the same thing.

        • @gearhead: If government doesn't have access… why would anyone tell them they swapped one crypto for another. Obviously when they want to withdraw it to real money again, they would have to because of ATO data matching. But in that case wouldn't you just swap from Bitcoin, to another crypto (or 10 others), make your profit, then swap it back to Bitcoin before finally withdrawing it - so it shows it came from the same place you deposited it from in the first place. Thus paying only once?

          Also, I was involved in a court case some years ago. Both parties were told to provide details of their income and assets to the judge. I soon realised there was no check in place if details of ALL accounts were provided. The judge only looked at the current balance. No check was made by him going through transactions to check if anyone had transferred a huge sum to another bank/account.

          MAYBE they can demand more info if he suspects you have other bank accounts. But they could just say, "No I don't." And if the other party seriously suspects that, that other party would have to increase their legal fees by hours/days of their lawyer sending a subpoena to every financial institution in the country to check.

          (No wonder government and banks hate crypto. They can't trace/control it without us handing the info over willingly.) You could turn $100K into $100M, then pay your bills/food/petrol/holidays/cars/rent in cash.

          I'm not saying to cheat, but gee… Until it turns into real cash again you can spend, you could lose, and lose, and lose, but be paying CGT each time. We should only have to pay it once, when the crypto comes back to your 'real world' account.

  • -3

    Bit Coin fluctuates much wider than normal currencies - from dizzy high to rock bottom.

    We are watching a bubble which has been created by speculators. The big central banks are planning to play the crypto currency game so they need to mess with the market to create some Chaos first.

    • The big central banks are planning to play the crypto currency game so they need to mess with the market to create some Chaos first.

      This contradicts your statement "Bit Coin fluctuates much wider than normal currencies - from dizzy high to rock bottom"

        • +5

          If cyrpto currencies are already wildly volatile, why would Big Central Banks (and now you have added IMF/big banks) even bother?

          Is it "planning to" or "recently"

          Your comments are all over the place.

          Have you got a source for your assertions?

  • +13

    Late 2013 I bought 1 BTC for about $1k and after a few weeks it dropped to about half. A few more weeks on, the price went back up so I promptly sold that 1 BTC and made about $10 profit. When the price dropped again and stayed low, I figured I made the right choice at the time.

    Over that same period I also bought twelve GPUs (and associated PC gear) and mined a few alt-coins, never cashing any out. A few months later when the price of the alts also dropped to practically nothing I stopped mining, turned them off and dismantled the computers. Sold off most of the GPUs/other gear and kept four of the GPUs for my personal computers.

    I had also bought seven USB BTC block erupters to try mining BTC with, but they never mined any significant amount of BTC. Definitely not enough to make a withdrawal from the mining site I was using before they shut down. I spent $120 on those USB things and they never mined me a profit. (Still got the ebay/paypal emails for their purchase - and looking at ebay now, recent completed sales of those USB block erupters have them sold for $80+ each! WTF?!)

    Anyway, all up I think I spent about $4k-$5k on computer hardware and recovered less than half when I sold the majority of GPUs.

    Earlier this year I noticed a number of forum postings about mining Ethereum which got me interested again, so dusting off those same old GPUs which were sitting unused I rebuilt a mining machine again. Couldn't mine ETH but I could mine ZCash and was earning about $2/day. A bit of research and calculations suggested that with new GPUs I could make my money back mining in about 100 days so back in I went and bought four new GPUs.

    A few weeks later I finally managed to make my first cash withdrawal ever from mining profits (which was about what I was expecting to make from the calculations).

    This was going into winter and I figured I'd keep mining and if the alt-coin prices crash again, at least my house will be warm. But my house isn't small so I'll need a few more miners, so I bought a lot more GPUs. (This was before that crazy spike in GPU prices). In total, I now have 25 GPUs mining away and spent about $7k setting it all up. My house was nice and warm this winter. At it's peak I was mining about $100/day but now it's dropped to about $35/day also now in summer I moved the miners out to the garage and shed.

    Learning from my earlier experience in mining, I've been cashing out those mining profits every so often and have more than doubled my initial spend.

    Had I just put that $7k into BTC, I'd be up maybe $50-$60k but who knew at the time that BTC would rise that much that quickly.

    And those alt-coins I mined in 2013/2014 that I never cashed out? I mined four different coins, one doesn't exist anymore and two are worth maybe $200 total combined now.

    The last coin I mined was Darkcoin and I managed to mine quite a few coins too. I've kept an eye on it over the years since I stopped mining, but watching the price rise over the last few months makes me a little nervous. It's now called Dash and the coins that I hold are worth close to a million dollars.

    I've been so tempted to sell many times and seriously considered cashing it all out when it was at $100k, but thankfully I didn't. I have sold a few to cover pretty much everything I ever spent getting into cryptocurrencies. I don't know how much it would have to be worth for me to cash it all out either. The greedy gambler in me keeps saying to let it ride. If the prices crash to nothing I won't be struggling as I don't have any debts.

    It would be really nice if it keeps going up like this though :)

    • +2

      If they are worth close to a million, surely you would cash out half at least in case they crash? Then no matter what happens, at least you've come out on top. If you lose it all it would be devastating.

      Or at last cash out that 100k that you were keen on.

      PS: I'm insanely jealous of these kind of stories, but unless I literally forgot about them, I wouldn't have the balls to make any significant profit regardless.

    • +2

      The last coin I mined was Darkcoin and I managed to mine quite a few coins too. I've kept an eye on it over the years since I stopped mining, but watching the price rise over the last few months makes me a little nervous. It's now called Dash and the coins that I hold are worth close to a million dollars.

      Id you have nearly $1,000,000 in DASH, you probably have 1000 coins.
      If that's the case, you should setup a masternode.
      Last time I checked, dividends would be about 10%, so you'd have a passive income of almost $100,000.
      You also get 1 vote for the projects the Distributed Autonomous Organisation (DAO) votes on.

      Dash generates several thousand coins per month to allocate to these projects. They're usually marketing, hiring developers to build wallets, etec.

      I was tempted to setup a masternode myself when it was only a few dollars per coin, but "Darkcoin" and the branding didn't sound very good at the time lol.

    • +2

      +1 for cashing out a portion. I remember back in 2008 I doubled my money in shares, only to watch it dwindle back down to 10% of what i invested.

      I cashed out a decent amount a few weeks ago, cleared out some debt. It was too early and i missed out on a lot of gains, but i know i'd regret it if crypto had finally tanked and i missed my chance to clear out the debt.

      I still have all the mining gear slowly earning back what i cashed out. Need to decide on a strategy of how to allocate the revenue, and how to cash out periodically. Eg, maybe every time the total value grows 10%, I cash out 1/10th of those gains.

      Money makes a huge difference when you have none. An extra million is a pittance when you already have a million. I wouldn't take such a huge risk hoping for the moon, maybe diversify somehow so you can never be put in the position of starting over?

  • over 9000?

    • -1

      There's an upper limit of about $1,000,000 per coin. I believe are about this time, all the world's money will be in bitcoin

      • +2

        Nice troll, everyone knows trump can print more money if needed

  • Why work for a living? Liquidate all of your assets, sink them into Bitcoins, sit back and watch your money double every month.

    • +2

      Yes, there are "stories" of people doing exactly this but I don't think there is any real chance to achieve this now, some people just have dumb luck but many more have bad luck!

    • back when it was $0.1c a coin or even $1000 a coin… but now.. not a good idea

  • It’s not too late. First futures listings just went live today on a major money market. Next week another listing. Prices will go up, and should gain more stability going forward. Once institutional investments enter the market, sky’s the limit.

  • +1

    Just saw the video on YouTube of that dude who had 111BTC stolen from his account…

    But all is good! Because he got a loan for $500KUS and is going to trade crypto until he has all the money back again 😳

  • +1

    Here is how to tell:
    Part A.
    I just bought $100.00 worth of Bitcoin.
    Part B.
    Answer honestly, Do you want it? ;).

    • This is exactly my question today.
      If all I can afford to lose is $100 then is it worth taking the risk for a minimal gain?
      I'm not sure it is whatever happens in the near future.

      The only purpose would be to feel a bit like I didn't totally miss out?
      I don't think that's enough reason to get involved?

      • -1

        And this is why lots of people are buying.. fear of missing out..which pushes up the price.

        • I guess that adds artificial value to the price, at least in the short term so you get a bit of a volatile price but then comes the true value in the medium to long term.

          What is the true value and how do you work it out.

          Obviously this is not the same as traditional stocks and we are getting into a brave new world with billions of dollars moving around and I guess the value in Bitcoin is it allows this movement of money in the electronic world?

          I've got no idea how to place a number on that?

        • @JTTheMan:

          If you could place a number on it then so could everybody else and that would impact the current value. If you were sure to return even 20% profit in 12 months then everyone would invest.

  • +2

    Is LiteCoin new Bitcoin?

    • +1

      Yep, I bought in at AUD$346 and it's up to $460 now. I also bought some Ripple with some leftover change and it's up 30% too :O

      Since bitcoin is so stagnant now, altcoins are the new gold rush!

      • +1

        Looks like LTC is new BTC…

      • hi where do you buy litecoin? and what wallet do you use to keep them? do you mind to share?

        • Coinbase or has it.

          In terms of wallet, Coinomi been doing alright for me. Until I get a hardware wallet

        • Yeah as Blackfyre says, I use because it's Australian-centric. They have Polipay and Bpay support so it's quite easy to get money from your bank account and start coin trading.

          I don't actually use a wallet yet (my coins are held in the website) but I should look into that.

        • @Lockiez: The CEO of litecoin mentioned that Litecoin is not a competitor to Bitcoin. It is more of a everyday coin similar to silver and Bitcoin is Gold which you hold onto.

  • Just a personal opinion. Cryptocurrency is still considered 'new' and i think there is potential. I started with Bitcoin and now into other crythocurrencies. Bitcoin market has been going crazy over the past few days (or weeks) given the media exposures and the introduction of Bitcoin Futures. But when there is volatility, there is often opportunity. Personally i bought a small amount of bitcoin on the weekend when it's around $17k (and when people predicted it's likely to crash when Bitcoin Future launches on Monday). I sold them on Monday when it's around $23k and that's 25% profit for me. I have been telling my friends to put $200 in another crythocurrency and just let it sits, who knows we can be millionaire in a few years time =P

    • +7

      Are crythocurrencies kept in freezers?

  • Alt coins should be an option.

  • Some simple questions:

    1. Cheapest way to buy Bitcoin?
    2. Cheapest way to sell/cash out Bitcoin?
    3. When I looked at Bitcoin ages ago, there was a Bitcoin ATM somewhere in Sydney. I'm guessing you enter some wallet code and can withdraw cash. Is there a fee to withdraw, and how much can you withdraw per day?
    • I used btcmarkets to buy and sell. Withdrawal fee depends on the platforms. Btcmarkets charge 0.0005 bitcoin to transfer bitcoin to other wallets each time which i think it's reasonable compare to some others that charge a percentage. If you simply buy/sell bitcoin within the platform, transfer AUD to your bank account is free.

      • Is Btcmarkets better than IndependentReserve? I am Searching for platform to invest in BTC. Was using coinbase but it does not support Australia account as yet.

        • I haven tried IR myself, keen to find out their fees. Have tried coinbase using credit card to buy bitcoin (not recommended due to high fees) and coinjar (seems to be on par with btcmarkets in term of fees).

        • @eatan2:

          0.5% good for small traders/holders, you got to move a lot before you see lower fees. Prices between the two fluctuate quite a bit I have to say. If you got a lot of cash to throw you could actually arbitrage between the two.
          Liquidity though IR has 2-3times the volume.

    • +1

      I'm also the same with Eatan2, 1). seesm like Btcmarkets are the cheapest in terms of bitcoin price (in Australia), trading fees and transfer fees. 2)Also sell at Btcmarkets and you can link up your bank with bsb and a/c no. 3) as for atm, you might find this useful

      Happy to answer any questions, sharing is caring, been helping out my friends with their crypto questions. They've called me Bitcoin Buddha coz i've "enlightened" them. lol. I've retired now thanks to crypto.

      • Mate, I'm about to invest into coins now. Couldn't find how to pm you. Could u please let me have yr contact details. Your help would be much appreciated

      • Hm… As I was viewing that site, one of the ATMs changed. Haymarket showed you could deposit and withdraw. Now it says deposit only. Anyway, that leaves only one ATM in Sydney that allows you to withdraw. You can withdraw a maximum of $10,000 per transaction, can make multiple withdrawals a day (until the ATM runs out of cash I guess), and they take 1.5% ($150) for every $10,000 withdrawal.

    • +1

      Indeed, BTC markets also has exceptional tools. Go to the website and you can see all the trades and graphs right now without even having an account. Warning - you will see massive gains and want to jump in immediately…lol

  • -3

    Rather invest in shares like Apple and Facebook, Apple shares has super spike due to iPhone release best investment opportunity,bitcoin 100% will crash when it comes don’t complain

  • IOTA!!!

  • +1

    Great article I came across about bitcoin (from 2016) from a non-technical perspective for us non-technical people.

    More of a accessible analysis of the nature of currency and where bitcoin fits in.

  • -1

    Well Litecoin is worth 330 USD and has seen a 7000% increase this year.

    If anyone can explain why a bitcoin clone is worth 7000% more than it was at the start of the year?

    It's a bubble. I just wish I didn't lose like 100 coins when btc-e got shut down lol. It's funny I kept them in the exchange because they were only worth like 100 bucks when I stopped paying attention to it. Now it would be worth near 50 grand.

    • -2

      "If anyone can explain why a bitcoin clone is worth 7000% more than it was at the start of the year?"

      It's worth more simply because people expect it to be worth more, which brings in more buyers. There is no logical reason for litecoin to increase in price so much. People throw around meaningless memes like 'bitcoin is gold, litecoin is silver' without stopping and thinking.

      Name one business (without using Google) that takes litecoins as a primary form of payment.

    • +1

      You know btc-e is now and the majority of your funds are there ready to be withdrawn?
      The rest is in a form of a debt token which is planned to be repaid over the next 2 years. You're welcome.

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