Hi All,
Just wondering what is your thought of BITCOIN which is well over $15000 USD.
I was monitoring that since it was $1100. Now its 14x and i was thinking $#/+ that is expensive a year ago and now i am thinking the same.
Any thought what do you think of it.
[edit]
Its hit today $19230+ USD.
It will crash eventually, but still early. I'm no risk taker, but I could afford to lose $100, so my $100 has become $1500usd. Alot of wall street investor says that there is nothing wrong with putting 1% of your portfolio on risky investment for the high risk high returns.
No one knows when it will dip but when it does allot of people are going to pull out at the same time.. should go back down as fast as it went up.
What happens once all 21,000,000 bit coins are mined…Will the network lose 100% of its miners (AKA Servers) and 100% of its security…
Here you go.
This design is intentional: the difficulty of mining is built in to limit the number of bitcoins found each day. In addition, there's a hard limit on the number of bitcoins that can be mined: 21 million coins, which is expected to be reached by 2140.
So the last bit coin will be the hardest one to get and is expected to be extracted by 2140 … hmm :)
So if we never see a mass exodus away from bitcoin. 1 BC could and probably will get to 1 Billion US dollars per coin in value by around the 2140 timeframe going by its current growth rate
Should be interesting to see.. wish i got 1 bit coin at the bargain basement price of $26,000 Aussie Dollars back in 2017 .. or even better 1 BC at 0.1c in 2009 :)
If 1 coin got tot he point of being worth 1Billion USD our economy is (profanity), imagine the market cap!
@gpmd2157:
your estimate is based on the assumption that computers will only stay as powerful as they are today
meanwhile quantum computers are 100000000 times faster than personal computers in everything, including bitcoin mining.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/18/d_wave_demystifies_…
so @vid_ghost has a valid hypothesis once everything is mined music can stop
and that will happen much much quicker than 2140
@evgpek:
I don't know where you got your 100000000 times faster than personal computers in everything figure, as quantum computers are highly specialised and don't do even close to everything, let alone fast or faster. The article says that figure on a specific optimisation problem and you then apply that performance to everything, which is nonsense. Even rewriting the well understood and simple gcd algorithm in QC is hard work. I'll nominate the simple sorting of a billion element array or inverting a huge matrix as obvious counter-examples to your statement, but only a fraction of general computing problems can even be tackled using quantum computing, so your statement is wrong for the vast majority of computer science. Try encoding a movie using a quantum computer and see if you can get 100 million times the speed over gigabytes of input data.
A quote from the article even says "These performance numbers I'm citing are from corner cases that hit right on the quantum sweet spot. General computing use performance still lags and programming one of these beasts is still more art than science."
@Frugal Rock:
My point was that computers will be faster therefore all of the bitcoin will be mined much sooner that anticipated.
AFAIK, as the cumulative computational power of the mining nodes increases, the difficulty in mining a block increases as a built-in regulation mechanism. Therefore, the yield per "unit time" reduces in a corresponding manner. This most likely means that in a graph where you have a mining yield (y) vs time (x), it will be asymptotic to the x axis; i.e. yield will diminish forever, yet not reach zero.
Re quantum computing, that is an interesting point and oft misunderstood by "normie" press. As Frugal Rock mentioned, there are very specific problem spaces where any headway has been made thus far. Relating to crypto, QC has made some very interesting progress in potentially breaking cryptosystems based on "IFP/DLP" (Integer factorisation Problem; Discrete Logarithmic Problem). This is due to the usage of Shor's algorithm that can be effectively utilised by the qubit (quantum unit of computing, akin to bits in conventional binary based computing) in QCs.
To combat the crypto-breaking potential of QC, there is substantial work involved among the cryptographers to create "Quantum-safe" algorithms. As an example, the Quantum Ledger guys are working on one such implementation for blockchain tech.
AFAIK = As far as I know.
Some others I've seen used a fair bit:
IANAL = I am not a lawyer.
IIRC = If I remember correctly.
IMHO = In my humble opinion.
@gearhead: oh… So I shouldn't be sending nudes of my bum to people who say IANAL…
That explains the police…
it will crash when hackers steal a lot of it or when all the main countries governments (USA. UK etc) regulate it. Dont see happening anytime soon unless it get trace back to either bank fraud, money laundering or terroism.
That McAfee guy said he'll eat his own d*ck if bitcoin doesn't go to a trillion dollar in 2020.
McAfee guy said he'll eat his own d*ck
Will make an interesting viewing.
Are you sure trillion dollars?
I thought he said million dollars.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/john-mcafees-1-million-bitco…
That'll take a million d*ck to finish.
Is USA printing more dollars? 😂
I'll send him some ketchup
Personally, I think at this stage of the game it's far too unpredictable. It's well past the point of it being an actual currency, as was it's intent. No one in their right mind is going to spend bitcoin to purchase something, lets say a coffee, when the next day that 'coffee' is worth twice as much. Buying bitcoin is essentially buying stock and is purely for investment at this stage to cash out into USD/AUD etc, you're not buying bitcoin to spend bitcoin.
Furthermore, it's become very mainstream. A year+ ago, if you asked a random person on the street chances are they wouldnt have heard of it. Now, most people have at least heard of bitcoin and heard of it's ridiculous exponential growth - they might not completely understand what bitcoins are, or cryptocurrencies in general but they have heard of it. My parents, who are in their 60s and almost illiterate when it comes to technology, have heard of bitcoin.
So essentially, you have all these people hearing of bitcoins success, wanting a piece of the pie and jumping on board - without really knowing much about investing or about cryptocurrencies. Which makes it far more unstable in my opinion. If the market is filled with people that don't really know what they're doing, it's not only unpredictable but much more likely to make kneejerk reactions.
Bitcoin right now is a big game of hotpotato for adults.
Bitcoin right now is a big game of hotpotato for adults.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
It'd be a complete lie to say I don't wish I'd bought some at the start of the year only to sell now.
But at the current state of things, I'm not sure I'm educated enough to jump in with my savings.
Also I can't help but think the absurd increase in price is mainly due to the media coverage coining it (lol, the pun) as the quickest way to your millionairhood.
(and the fact that every second post praising Bitcoin as the next best thing since sliced bread probably helps with introducing new players and thus increasing demand too)
Whether the increase is sustainable or not, only time will tell, me, personally I would hate to be the one with the potato when the music stops.
You pretty much put what I was thinking into words. Well done. Its super risky, and tbh I also don't see us using bitcoins to buy everyday items - I think it will eventually just be worth less and less and be gone one day. The people who actually control everything wouldn't let it happen.
Yes I think buffet said once the majority of shareholders don't know what the stock actually does..it's intrinsic value…it's time to get out. I doubt more than half of investors in bit coin fully comprehend what block chains do or there value. Of course he could be wrong…if he actually said that …come to think of it maybe it was someone else
The whole becoming mainstream is whats inflated the price so dramatically. The more people wanting invest in bitcoin assure it will only continue to rise in value for some time; how long that is no one knows. But once it eases and becomes less prevalent in media, is when it will decline.
If you read about the Bitcoin project, you will know that the people in it ruined the project. The whole idea was to create an alternative to the "money" but since now they managed to tie it to the usd, the old school, the freedom and purpose of the project is gone. Also, the higher bitcoin goes, the harder it gets for people to get in, and easier it gets to short it, another reason for a collapse. The media has been advertising a lot of forecasts, the other day, somebody was forecasting bitcoin at 500,000, now 1M using famous names.
There's supposedly $140 million worth buried in a Welsh landfill dump.
That was yesterday.
Now it's worth $200million.
Joking, not joking
gotta risk it for the biscuit
nothing ventured nothing gained
The early bird gets the worm
A fool and his money are soon parted (partying).
Second mouse gets the cheese
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
What comes up, must come down!
Man who goes to bed with itchy arse wakes up with smelly finger.
Waitwut
I could go for a biscuit
Butter my biscuit
would you like me to assign someone to butter your biscuit?
the housing market will crash 1st before bitcoin going down
Well, the obvious thing to do is SELL SELL SELL your house and BUY BUY BUY BitCoin.
Makes perfect sense really.
After all you can live in your bitcoin, but not in your house.
I dumped a not so negligible sum of money into it when it was sitting at 7200USD…a month ago I think. You say it like a joke but if I had dumped everything I could pull together into it I'd have more than doubled my money lol.
Problem is it's as good as gambling with such an unpredictable market.
If i had a dollar…
Unless you've cashed out you haven't made any money.
Which of course brings up the point, if BitCoin is actually useful then there's no need to 'cash out'.
At this point you could cash out half and have your money back, yet still stay in the game to see how high it goes.
And live in a virtual house to spend your virtual currency :)
I hope you're right.
I expect this comment to be a repository for boomer negs.
with $7.3 trillion worth of hot air in the ozzie housing market
it is as much as a ponzi scheme than anything else
let's see if the housing value will doubles to $14 trillion, or go halves.
Houses are a REAL thing.. land is a REAL thing both are things people need to support life.
Bitcoin is something we dont need to support life.. therefor its less valuable.
The real wealth in the future is going to be land we can grow food on…. unpolluted clean livable land and fresh air.. Bit coin wastes electricity.. its ledger, transactions and unbreakable security encryption can run off 0.001% of the computational power it currently has at its disposal.. the rest is wasted energy … Bitcoin is growing so fast that it has more processing power then every super computer put together and soon to be every server + super computer on earth .. all just wasting power on meaningless computational workloads.
The only way houses will ever go down is when our global population starts to reduce.
I dont see that happening anytime soon.. Stable, clean and safe western countries like Australia and Canada are a gold mine when compared to the unstable war torn impoverished, polluted, overpopulated, bankrupted and completely corrupt placed around the world.
indeed, US, Ireland, Iceland, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Italy,
they were all unstable war torn impoverished, polluted, overpopulated, bankrupted and completely corrupt placed
Australia is perfect to you.
@phunkydude: I'm taking about today and in the future.
Japan is at risk of being taken out by north Korea as well as being a semi radioactive fallout zone. Doesn't sound like a safe place to invest in real estate or live.
Ireland is corrupt and licking at the boot heals of its corporate overlords. Apple, Google tax haven.
Iceland's economy is still reeling from the GFC making it a risky investment (Failing banks)
The other 3 are Government debt basket cases. lol
Spain, (99.0% of GDP) Portugal (130.1% of GDP), Italy (132.0% of GDP)All corrupt and have a large Dept to GDP ratio leading to instability, no money for public wealthfare, health care ext.
As an example Australia's Government debt is (34.2% of GDP), Ireland is 72.8% of GDP, Canada's is 66% of GDP, Iceland is 98.8% of GDP and the GOOD old USA is 104% of GDP
Looking today & future, rightttt ….
History never repeats itself ?
Instead of government debt.
Try look at our household debt + $1 Trillion foreign debt that we owed to other countries.
This is where people get their money to outbid everyone in auction and the vicious cycle continues pushing up the value of housing market which made out of thin air (or call it debt).
@vid_ghost: I agree, this is so pointless. Furthermore, heaps of people are loving this kind of income because it's valuable and powerful at the moment, you can dodge all tax, pay for illegal things and the government has no control over it.
Once it becomes widespread enough, it will be regulated and controlled by the government which means it loses all it's benefits and it's just like our current online cashless system used everywhere already.
Or…if the government truly can't control it, it will be banned and then this currency will be completely and utterly worthless.
@vid_ghost: Pffft, baloney..
There is no housing shortage, period. There is an oversupply of housing in Australia.
It is not residential demand driving house prices, far from it.
@vid_ghost: I totally agree with you but currency also has worth i.e. AUD$ are worthless but they are the best system we have of exchanging goods/services. Some people think Bitcoin is better but ethereum has already proved to be a better system so the only point of it currently is speculative worth.
Not sure why you've been negged, but all it takes is another fool here, like Obama in the USA - to ruin manufacturing and kill off jobs, push interest rates so high many can't afford to repay their variable interest loans, making people go bankrupt to wipe their crushing debt. Banks foreclose flooding the market with property. Ample supply means little demand so prices start falling to attract buyers. But the sheep panic, stop buying, investors sell their properties before their suspected crash, flooding more property into the market until it actually causes a crash. Then banks start failing because their assets (loans and property) is now a fraction of its value.
Both labor and liberal have been killing off manufacturing and jobs for years. Only at a slower rate than Obama did, as well as artificially keeping unemployment figures down by creating more government jobs.
It may not happen here. But it sure could.
@m0tyrider: It's being used as a speculative investment vehicle.
If there was a supply/demand issue the data would show it.
The only thing there is a shortage of is housing that is affordable. There are vacant properties everywhere, occupation rates are low and there are no tent cities.
Where is the housing shortage?
@GregMonarch: It's a bit of a stretch to point fingers at government for not being proactive enough in curtailing basic concepts of [multi-national] capalism-what levels of tax cuts and other incentives could there possibly be to match saving up to 80% in labour and production costs by moving operations offshore? Capitalists are in the business of making money and if it's more financially efficient manufacturing a product overseas there's no way to stop them doing so.
@iDroid: umm a quick googles shows how fast we are growing in population.. Western Australia's population grew fastest (that is it had the strongest growth rate) in the ten years to 2016 (mainly due to strong growth between 2006 … Melbourne had the largest growth of all Greater Capital Cities in the ten years to 2016 (964,600), followed by Sydney (773,600), Brisbane (452,000)
SO this DOES factor in people who have died.. this is more people then the years before it.. so so long as there continues to be more people.. THEY ALL NEED TO LIVE SOMEWHERE
doesnt matter if its a rented out investment property or home owner! people are so dumb thinking its a bubble when people need these bubbles to sleep in its not really a bubble its just undersupply.. its more about infrastructure then available land. We have lots of land just no services connected to that land.
@vid_ghost: Undersupply? I don't believe so. All the evidence (except the house prices) indicate an over supply. Sure we've got population growth, but we also have supply increases. The occupancy rate is low, there are not homeless people everywhere in tent cities (ie, they're already living in a dwelling)..
Still not seeing any shortage.
When there's no more properties listed in your area on www.realestate.com.au then there's a real under-supply. ;-) (Or maybe it's more accurate to say, when there are no more properties listed in your state/country.) :-p
What is really meant is: "I can't/don't want to afford the properties that are available."
As to someone's question above, what then causes property to be so expensive… Lots of things 'affect' what is the real reason. They all come back the same root reason: sheeple; 'the market'; people's shift in opinion; how we 'view' the 'value' of property/shares/cars/boats/bitcoin.
i.e. If shares of a business today are worth $200 but tomorrow fall to $20, and the business still holds the same assets, handing out the same dividends, has the same customer base… Nothing has changed except the opinion of some sheeple. (One jumps over an imaginary stone, then so does every sheep that follows behind them.)
It just happened in the USA. Some dishonest lefty nitwit at CNN omitted key details and published the fake claim he had evidence of the Trump/Russia collusion delusion. The stock market instantly fell; the truth came out; and the stock market rallied again.
So if a 3 bedroom house on 400m2 of land in Liverpool is 'worth' $800,000 today, but next week something 'crashes' or 'inflates' - 'the market'… Nothing about that property has changed. So it's value only changed because more people's opinion changed, than the number of people whose opinion did not change. (And greedy real estate agents of course, who blame everything on 'the market' but who are the ones that jack up prices, guessing we'll grit our teeth and pay their new 'estimate', thus fobbing off responsibility on us that they caused. (So we pay tens of thousands more, so they can earn just a couple of thousand extra commission.)
What most people don't realise is, this puts the power in OUR hands - to not only affect - but DETERMINE the cost of property. How? By most people in Australia simply signing on to an agreement to refuse to purchase property for a year or two. Goodness knows government will certainly never do it for us. Except their token 'fixes' like the First Home Owner Grant to win a few votes, knowing if they give us $10,000, properties will quickly increase by $30,000 because more people are now buying (which again proves my point WE determine the price).
Government doesn't WANT us to have affordable housing. Never did, never will. They stea… um… collect - too much in taxes, plus their own property portfolios to consider, to derail that gravy train.
A government and bank controlled ponzi scheme can't crash. Keep immigration high and home/infrastructure building low. Demand will always push up prices.
With your logic, there shouldn't be any housing crash in the history then.
Demand vs Debt.
In the end, debt kills everything.
You can actually do both - invest in Housing via Bitcoin and Ethereum.
Crypto and Real Estate in One Token
https://www.caviar.io/
Just the thing for Ozbargain risk junkies!
What about.. bitcoin going down will cause the housing market to crash?
I'd love too see the overpriced shack in Sydney goes tumbling down. You could have bought a castle in Bali or Thailand with a million dollar.
If I could somehow tell my 10yr younger self one thing, it would buy all the bitcoin that you can!
If that was possible, you would be better off putting it all on a horse race for insta cash instead of waiting for BTC to rise :)
I don't think BitCoins were around in 2007.
Unless he means he was 10years old in 2013, then why is a minor doing here on a gambling thread?
Just giving myself a few years advanced warning ;)
I used to think the same but turning $67AUD to $240,000,000AUD would involve quite a few bets with and therefore could, get confusing and come undone, a simple buy the 10,000 bitcoin here and if you hold it for 7 years until December 2017 it will be worth $240mil then, would be easy.
It's like saying, I wish I could travel back in time and buy some Google shares. Or Apple shares. Or a winning lotto number. I wish I could travel back in time : (
But 10,000 Bt = AUD$100, still works out like 1c per Bitcoin.
Hell, even if you invested when it was $1 per Bitcoin.
Or even $100 per Bitcoin.
I mean the Winklevoss twins put USD$11 Million back in 2013, when it crashed. Yet, they are now Billionaires.
So its not too late, until it's too late :P
Username's backstory checks out.
You think you would have held onto a $1000 investment in bitcoin when the value of them jumped up to $50,000? What about $100,000?
I would have - it'd have to be a pretty life changing scenario for me to pull mine out now. In this game, I'm going by the whole don't put in more than you can afford to lose mantra. So If I can afford to lose it….I don't really need the 2.36x my initial investment.
For me to cash out I'd need to pay off my house, or at least put a significant enough amount of cash into it that it would give me a significant lifestyle change etc.
But how long would your 10yr old self have held onto them?
I had the opportunity to buy bitcoin in 2010, I decided not to. I'd be rich if I had them now, but chances are I'd have most likely sold them well before they even reached $500ea
was looking at it seriously when it hit 10k. unbelievable rise in the last month.
I was going to buy 1 at 10k aud a few weeks ago, but I just couldnt do it. I don't understand its value anymore, like I get how block chain works and decentralisation etc. but the whole basic principal of currency was versatility, Ive been told its too expensive to transact in bit coin now due to processing costs and initial buy in, so how different is it really to gold? Gold still has manufacturing qualities. I dont know but its becoming similar in its lack of versatility and purpose - "just a volatile money store". While, the gains and financial benefits of BC investing are undoubtable and highlighted by the charts, its just not my game. Id feel like Im just gambling, and Im much better at blackjack or poker than predicting a rise/fall in BC or cryptos.
BTC is heaps more useful for shifting money out of China to avoid currency controls.
BTC will crash the day the CCP makes owning BTC a capital offence.
I predict it won't be that long until this happens.
Its VERY versatile for shifting money. When I got taught about wallets etc. I was so surprised.
China banned BitCoin in September this year, and it caused a slump in its value.
However, it didn't crash.
And the fact that it didn't crash, and held most of its price put some "proof" in its value, and confidence rose.
So since then, its just gone up up and up.
The fear of China is/has subsided. Now its only a fear that it will get killed by other countries, or someone huge, like the Winklevoss brothers might suddenly sell which could cause a (small) crash, and that might turn into an avalanche and have more people/investors selling leading to an actual crash.
Despite all this, BitCoin is still the "safe bet" when it compares to other cryptocurrencies, even Ethereum, simply because its the largest, oldest, well-known.
@T1OOO: Which makes sense given the majority of BTC is now mined in China. They have massive farms there dedicated to getting them. The size is obscene.
Well I've been in the "It's gonna crash tomorrow" camp for the longest time.
Not too sure anymore.
Still won't buy any though.