Don’t know if there is a law, but I reckon if not it should be 20km/hr
Should There Be Speed Limits for Bicycles in Parks?
teasatotalling on 10/12/2017 - 07:22
Comments
We should be able to rely on common sense, but probably can't,hence all the nanny laws in Australia
I would say that common sense is going pretty well ive never heard of anyone getting hit by a cyclist at high speed on a pedestrian foot path in australia,ive been hit once in ireland the guy was drunk and riding at night with no visability gear on. Not saying it doesnt happen but statitscally wise i would bet the chances are very low not enough to warrant policing and cost of implementation.
Unless you live in some sort of crazy area where noone has any though for anyone else.
Cyclist hitting pedestrian does happen, but it isn't very common. AFAIK there has been like 2 or 3 fatalities in the last 10 years or so. So, yes, courtesy/common sense seems to be going OK. Part of the reason for this is that a cyclist is at real risk of also getting a serious injury if they crash into something and unlike in a car, they are not isolated from others.
Good luck trying to enforce this.
That is a pretty good point. If we have a speed limit, there will be some expectation of enforcement and we don't have enough resources to manage policing on the roads, let alone in parks.
Education and coutersy will be enough.
If you are talking about teens…We need more Parenting than Law…
Seen so many parents just lay the eggs without teaching them how to behave.
Yea, will the police be handing out speeding fines for over/under limit?
Aren't cyclists suppose to signal with their bell when approaching pedestrians from behind? I've rarely seen this though, maybe 9 out of 10 times I just get bikes zooming past me without any signalling whatsoever in Sydney. Its pretty dangerous for kids and seniors…
Bike Riders generally don't ring the bell, as most people aren't aware or move to the right causing more problems.
Sure, but when you hear bells coming from behind, most people react by looking.. its about getting people's attention rather than zooming past in stealth - that's when accidents happen.
My closest calls have been after ringing a bell and having a pedestrian step into my path when if they hadn’t deviated there would have been no issue.
Same Here. If your bike is properly maintained, the noise you make riding is very low.
Multiple times clipping or almost hitting people after ringing my bell.
So I found much easier not ringing at all unless they are blocking the right hand side of the path.
M7 Shared path (cycle way) has a 30kph speed limit for bikes but never seen anyone enforce it. Often people with good bike ride faster than that speed especially going downhill.
no
No, expect for people that attach a motor to their bike.
Should be regulations for every move you make?
Should be regulations for asking for more regulations?
Should the government have its nose everywhere?
99% of the regulations should be abolished and replaced by education.
We don't worship the government. We were born free in a free country.
Cyclists shouldn't pass pedestrians within 1m.
Bicycle registration (cheap, free if possible) and identification plates should be mandatory.
Shared paths should definitely have overtake speeds.Rego for bikes would cost too much to the tax payer for very little benefit.
Lets be honest, it would cost next to nothing, but because governments are involved costs skyrocket. If people can submit footage of cars which end up being identified and investigated I think it's fair road users should be identifiable. For the majority of people it shouldn't be an issue. I like bikes and cars. I like helmet laws too.
No, it wouldn't cost next to nothing. There are millions of bikes out there and managing that system would be a nightmare. Do we need to register kids bikes? How much does car rego cost, 200? That is mostly the cost of administering the rego.
The how do you make a rego plate small enough to be legible and fit on a bicycle, I reckon you'd need at least 8 digits. Motorbike rego plates are hard enough to decipher at any distance or from camera footage as it is and popping a moto rego plate size on a bike is not going to work, they are too big.
I like bikes and cars too and abide by helmet laws, despite thinking they should be relaxed (not withdrawn).
For the record, I'd be happy to register some of my bikes (not all ride on the roads) to shut up the whiners that carry on about bike rego, but it's never going to happen.
You can make it as cheap or expensive as you want depending on what you intend on integrating it with. There is no way it costs $200 to register anything if it doesn't need to be. NSW fishing license $7 for three days, we'll get them to do a bike license too. Cost of a library card, free. We don't need to agree, I'm not trying to compel you or anyone, just sharing my opinion. I'm sure people can share differing opinions without whining.
@bxpressiv: Fair enough, apologies about insinuating you were a whiner, but many who regularly complain about cyclists call for rego are not much more than whiners.
If you want to use the bicycle rego system as a way of identifying a rider, you will need to keep track of an owner in some way, that will require a database and maintaining it, similar to what the RMS do with vehicle registrations. Sell your bike, you'll need to update the records etc, all for a fee. There is a reason the vehicle rego costs are what they are, mostly to pay for administering it.
A fishing licence is no more than more than handing over a slip of paper as you only need to show it on request, not be able to look up the person displaying it in any way. What is the point of a bike licence handed out like a fishing licence? It wont improve anyone's knowledge of the road rules, you get a basic education in schools/life, then most cyclists also have a car licence. A $7 fishing licence is a bit of a joke really. Noone is going to take the time to educate you properly for $7.
I know, I'm just pointing out a database can do next to nothing and be cheap. I think the root of my opinion is road users should be identifiable. The majority of people on the roads do the right thing, for those who aren't doing the right thing being identified is a deterrent.
@bxpressiv: Agree, the majority do the right thing - cyclists and pedestrians included.
Popping a rego plate on a car hasn't stopped idiots from doing the wrong thing, what makes you think it will make any difference for cyclists?
I just think logically if cars didn't have registration plates there would be more illegal behaviour because people can't be identified. So going the other way being identified on a bike would deter some people from doing the wrong thing. It's human nature isn't it, generally people will act differently depending on whether their actions can/can't be attributed to them.
@bxpressiv: I agree with this, but the risk of not identifying cyclists is fairly small. Mostly the infractions carried out by cyclists are minor traffic rules that in general do not cause any harm (but maybe some frustration). Sure, I've seen more than a few cyclists doing the wrong thing over the years, but none have caused any real harm.
As a community we'd be better off with identifying people who wear hoodies and dark glasses to prevent robberies and muggings.
I think it goes a bit of the way to establishing better equality on the roads though. It's not necessarily harm reduction more about accountability and responsibility. I'll take a stab and say that most cyclists have run red lights or gone through red lights at night when no ones around, cars would be far less likely to do that.
Poor behaviour for all road users should be held to account.
@bxpressiv: Elsewhere in the world there is a consideration that cyclists are allowed to treat a red light or stop sign as a give way (called the Idaho stop). It is a practical solution allowing a cyclist to continue riding along. It takes a decent effort to start off again from stopped on a bike compared to lightly pressing a pedal in a car. When no-one is around and there is no chance of a collision then we should allow a cycle to continue riding.
Yes, poor behaviour for all road users should be held to account, but rego plates doesn't seem to do that. Reporting a rego number for doing something dangerous/illegal doesn't get much in the way of results as many people (especially cyclists) have tried have found out.
I'm a firm believer in promoting the bicycle as a viable transport option, to cut down pollution and congestion and increase fitness. Adding registration and further rules will only put more obstacles in the way of increasing the number of bicycles in use. Reducing the need to wear helmets on paths and for streets less than 60km/h could also encourage some to cycle more.
Reality is that many countries have already tried your scheme. The only country that has stuck with it is Japan. Most ditched it because they found it made no difference to the things you are speculating on and the cost of administering it was prohibitive. Essentially to make it work would require an additional draw upon the treasury. Potentially other registration payers (drivers) would likely have to pay extra in their annual rego to pay for a bike rego scheme. the other option would be to ask cyclists to pay a large rego which many simply wouldnt. I expect that the enthusiast level folks like myself with expensive bikes that ride as a hobby would whinge but would probably pay, the incidental cyclists that use bikes as a cheap form of transport wouldnt pay and take a chance. Parents wouldn't want to pay for little Johnny's bike he rides to school. When confronted over a cycling infraction many would claim the bike was left at their share house, someone else borrowed it and it wasnt them riding when the incident occurred etc.
Keeping the database up to date to record the transfer of bikes would be a nightmare. Bike shops would get it right but having somebody off Gumtree send in their rego form with $200 for the transfer of the $50 Mountain Bike they paid cash to a bloke on the weekend for would be impossible. inevitably the new owner runs a red light, the old owner is still the registered owner, gets pinged, claims he sold it but the new owner didnt transfer the rego. Dramas, problems etc etc I know they manage all this already with cars but cars kill people, bikes dont.
Given it would be complicated and expensive and overseas experience shows that the only things it achieves is to appease a group of people that hold strong views regardless of contradicting evidence, most governments are against imposing an additional cost on the treasury to essentially just buy off the rego whingers. Add to this that by imposing this you will certainly see the rate of people riding instead of driving take a huge hit. Less people on bikes = more people in cars = more congestion in the cities, more pollution and less active people getting exercise. A lot of negatives and the only positive, born out of overseas experience is that it will keep happy the folks that normally write in to complain about bloody cyclists. All negatives, no positives.
All good points, you've obviously done some research. Out of interest have any countries done cyclist registration/licensing as opposed to bike registration?
I still have to go to the root of the whole point though, are cyclist against being identified?
@bxpressiv: Nope, most cyclists are not against being identified, just at the burden of registration and additional needs for special number plates that would be too small to read, or too big to manage on a bicycle.
Most riders recognise that putting a plate on not really change the way they ride, except maybe that they'll be more inclined to stay put in a lane because they'll become a 'legit road user'
It's a waste of money when it costs more than the fee would be, but plenty of riders would stump up $20 or so just to stop the whiners. The problem with putting a plate on to stop the whiners, is that they'll find something else to whine about and you've got rego for nothing.
Current laws allow a police officer to compel you to identify yourself. Don't need anything more, the current system works.
@bxpressiv: I am happy to be identified as i dont break the law. I ride my bike using the same laws as when i drive my car mostly. I am a MAMIL, I drive a european car to my office job in the city, i dont commute to work by bike nor do I use a bike as my incidental form of transport. I never cycle in the inner city, mostly because i dont want to get run over. The bike I ride would be considered by many to be a hyper expensive carbon fibre bike designed in a wind tunnel to reduce the amount of aerodynamic drag. Spending $7K+ on a bike largely for its aerodynamic properties and then slapping a non aerodynamic metal plate on it would be counter productive. I also spend stupid amounts of money on expensive cycling clothes. I know it is a wank but most of my MAMIL mates do the same. We ride out in the outer suburbs and on quiet country roads, it is far more common to see a cow or a sheep than it is to see traffic lights, most of the time it is rare to see a car. I would be upset about having spent a fortune on an expensive bike and high end aerodynamic clothes designed to wick away sweat etc and then be forced to wear a smock with a number on the back over the top.
Finally, in terms of reporting somebody you would have to have pretty compelling dashcam evidence. If you walked into a police station and announced you had seen cyclist ABC123 run a red light the police would send you away. Not because they are lazy but because without any evidence, when the other person says 'no I didnt' they dont have a leg to stand on. if you dobt me consider how you would go walking in and telling them you saw a P Plater in a Commodore rego ABC123 do a burnout and see how you go.
I dont care about being identified because I dont break the law but I would care about having additional costs and measures placed on me for no gain. I dont think numbers would make any difference but they would cost me money and impact upon my enjoyment of cycling. From my perspective all downside, no upside. I work in the CBD, I drive to and from the Melbourne CBD every day from Berwick, I drive up Commercial Road every day and i go home on Dandenong and I see plenty of cyclists. Perhaps I am sympathetic as i also ride a bike but, although i am sometimes frustrated by them I dont see the same amount of dangerous madness that seems to be quoted on these fora. I do see dangerous cyclists from time to time and i get frustrated sometimes but it is nothing I couldnt live with.
@bxpressiv: A very high number of cyclists already have drivers licences. This is one of the things that annoys me the most about this fracas. The group of MAMILS that i ride with has in it several Bus Drivers, several truck Drivers, a Crane Driver and a guy that owns his own removals company with several trucks. Everyone in the 50+ strong riding group I ride with every weekend drives a car far more often than they ride a bike. I am sure kids and some adults somewhere ride bikes even though they dont have a drivers licence but they would be in the vast minority. I drive a european sedan with roof racks and a bike carrier semi permanently attached to the roof so i can put my bike on and drive to the meetup point for the start of my bikeride!!! I always take my drivers licence with me in a pouch in case my body needs to be identified etc.
Most of the nasty comments on social media assume a specific stereotype for a 'cyclist' and they assume that anybody in their right mind would rather drive a car. I rode last weekend with a wealthy friend. He travels the world buying sports cars as a hobby. His palatial house has an underground garage where he keeps 5 or 6 of them at any one time. He owns a caryard in a neighbouring suburb (doesnt sell cars he just uses it for storage) where he rotates cars between his house and his yard. He has another setup at his other house in London. He has vintage cars, muscle cars, Ferraris, Lotuses, all kinds of cars, he is by any measure an extreme car nut!! He recently drove out to my house in a 1934 vintage car that looked like it should be on the set of Downton Abbey! Last Sunday I got up early, put my bike onto the roof of my car and drove across Melbourne to his house (in a suburb i could never afford to live in). When i got there I took my bike off the roof and both of us went for a ride down Beach Rd in Melbourne. 2 Middle aged guys getting some exercise on a Sunday morning. We rode 20 kms, stopped and had coffee and Breakfast at a cafe then rode back to his place.
We both have drivers licences, I'm not sure how many cars he owns, certainly more than 20 spread around the world, i own 3. Both of us have Drivers licences, i think he has a few for different countries. he certainly has some left hand drive cars that he has imported. My friend is clearly not an average cyclist but the whole point is that there is no average cyclist. There is no club we all belong to and no standard. Somewhere there's a kid riding to school, elsewhere I know retired guys that spend hours riding in the hills trying to keep fit in their old age. Elsewhere there are people training for races, others use commuting bikes as a cheap form of transport. Just as there is no typical 'Driver' there is no typical 'cyclist'.
Don't register the bike register the rider, compulsory safety vest with riders number. (safety vest should be compulsory anyhow)
No worries, my backpack full of work gear will cover that up just nicely.
Actually, we'd get more community benefit from getting all hoodies branded with an identifier, would cut down on servo robberies and mugging old ladies.
Most of us already have numbered drivers licences
Yes. Flying pass, ringing their bloody bells - acting like they own the footpaths.
Maybe I dont want to move out of the way every 10 seconds?
You don't need to move out of the way, just maintain your line and the bike can go around. They need to give way to pedestrians.
Not when theres someone walking adjacent the opposite direction and the bikes travelling the same way as you.
I notice it starts from a real young age. The kids, I can forgive.
I dont want to sound like a hippy but the bells break my immersion. Kinda like how youre walking at a park in outer city and have to constantly listen to the bikies with their loud ass harleys
Exactly. Bicyclists are every bit the bullies they make car drivers out to be. Hypocritical, arrogant, and dangerous to pedestrians.
** some of them.
Fine, some. Not to tar the decent folk with the same brush.
@matchabatcha: This doesn't give us any indication of why the cyclist overreacted. More than likely he felt as though his life had been in danger and after a confrontation didn't want the driver chasing him down.
I've had a 'lady' follow me up the road shouting at me and my sons cycling for her doing something stupid and endangering my kids. If she had stopped, she might have lost her keys too
I don't know why people struggle with this, but getting hit by something between 50kg and 100kg travelling at 35km/h, can cause serious injury or death.
I don't think bikes need speed limits in parks, but I think bicyclists should be charged with culpable driving when they hurt pedestrians.
Last week we had a post saying cyclists should be off the roads as they slow down traffic too much. Now cyclists are too fast. Post from last week had the average speed of a cyclist at 10 kph and now I'm seeing 40+ through parks.
Emotive opinion is pointless. The data is not there to support cyclists being dangerous to pedestrians. Your personal experience or dislike of cycling is an opinion, of which you are entitled to, but an opinion only.
I would be more worried about getting hit by a car in the carpark, or crossing the road getting to the park. That's where you will face the danger.
And yes there is data to back that up.
hahah I love the bell argument, you honestly cant win ring it and your a bully, don't ring it and you get abused.
I hope folks realise that cyclists usually are also pedestrians, car drivers, truck drivers, motorbike riders, have kids, go to parks, walk dogs etc etc etc etc and so on. And are not riding around in their Lycra trying to upset all non cyclists, and occasionally even upset other cyclists !
Be considerate of your fellow humans and the dogs. 90% of problems solved. It's not hard, try it.
-Why do we need data before a discourse can be established?
-A dog isn't constantly barking behind my ass
-How about you take your own advise and be considerate to others?
-Sounds like cyclists want their cake and eat it too
Last week we had a post saying cyclists should be off the roads as they slow down traffic too much. Now cyclists are too fast. Post from last week had the average speed of a cyclist at 10 kph and now I'm seeing 40+ through parks.
Emotive opinion is pointless. The data is not there to support cyclists being dangerous to pedestrians. Your personal experience or dislike of cycling is an opinion, of which you are entitled to, but an opinion only.
-How about you take your own advise and be considerate to others?
-Sounds like cyclists want their cake and eat it too
I've had enough of cyclist bashing in forums. For some reason there is a lot of cyclist hate in the media that ends up on social media in a 5#itstorm of some sort. There is very little EVIDENCE of cyclists being a major problem, any more than pedestrians using phones or wearing earbuds are, but the masses love to hate on cyclists.
I'm a cyclist, but I'm not a lycra wearing TDF wannabe. I ride to work, I also ride for exercise and I ride for recreation. On road, on path and in the bush. In years of commuting and riding I've barely had any bad interactions with pedestrians, some my fault, some the pedestrians - but sometimes humans make mistakes and I'll cop to mine, and cope with others. On the whole a greeting and a smile is the responses I get and being courteous gets the best responses.
MOST cyclists are considerate to others, it's just the inconsiderates that stand out and make a bad name (same for any stereotype)
Discourse without evidence is opinion, The OP is asking for legislation to be changed. Discourse does not make for good laws.
There are many small white fluffy numbers that are popular at the moment that would cause me to disagree, this however is purely my observation
I do
Sounds like you don't like cyclists
I like pedestrians and dogs. Because I am a pedestrian, and I have a dog. Kids too, even drive a car. Pay tax, Rego x3, private healthcare (not very Ozbargain of me), Rates, Dog registration etc etc and I have to have a bell on my bike because it's the LAW.
do you understand the purpose of a forum?
No. I don't like people that want to interject a their way above the freedom of others. I don't like hats that are also honk happy
Don't conflate my annoyance for a particular act to mean I hate a whole community.
I agree with you @hahuh more freedom/less rules.
i think its not the speed but not hearing one behind you until its too late or close to step away.
I’m not sure introducing speed limits is the answer. Based on the number of people using the bike track near me (cyclists, pedestrians, kids, people walking dogs, etc) plus some really dangerous blind corners where the bike track curves to go under a under bridge, I think it would be much safer to start having dedicated bike paths in some areas where possible.
I have heard of two bike incidents on bike paths in Qld recently.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/townsville/dog-att…
http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-traffic-…
Let's give speeding tickets to dogs. I've had one too many hoon border collies zip past me without ringing their bells. Every time I get very VERY slightly startled.
And should there also be a speed limit for people running?
Just prosecute those who responsible for reckless endangerment when incident happens.The police are better policing and investigating muggings and robbery rather than enforcing speed limits. priorities..
Yeah should feature on a highway patrol episode. Cyclist doing 22km/hr gets a $1200 fine and jail for 2 years. Next segment, druggo whos wasted on a cocktail of drugs and alcohol steals a car, rams the police and crashes into 3 parked cars gets a $600 fine, community service and a stamp in his commit 10 crimes get 1 free card.
As a daily cyclist and as a dad, if we are talking about parks where paths are shared between cyclists and pedestrians then, yes, bicycles should absolutely have a speed limit, or be banned altogether.
In shared zones I try to cycle at roughly the same speed as pedestrians. I avoid overtaking pedestrians unless I can give them a wide berth. It's tedious, which is why 99.9% of my time spent cycling is in cycle-dedicated lanes or on the roads. Similarly, if I don't feel comfortable/safe riding on a particular road/route, I don't.
I love my bike and would ride it everywhere if I could. Reality is that at times it just isn't safe and/or practical. I am sure infrastructure will catch up one day, but for now and in those situations I'll resort to the next most practical mode of transportation, be it walking, tramming, or driving my hulking 4x4 diesel guzzler.
Peace out!
soo, you are saying you are against sharing paths and want biking banned, but you still do it? doesn't make sense.
too much rules mate, cant walk, cant eat, cant shit, we turning into a dictatorship. why don't we all put on training wheels while we are at it, put a speed limit on tour DE France. better yet…. why don't we all sit at home and never go out.I was only referring to shared zones in parks. And I don't think it would be necessary if common sense prevailed, but unfortunately these days common sense and courtesy are all too often inhibited by testosterone.
I'm all for people burning up excess testosterone by doing laps of Yarra Boulevard, or dicing it with the peak hour car/bike/e-bike/motorbike/scooter crush in Melbourne CBD. Go nuts! I'm a fixie rider and I do Melbourne CBD streets during peak hour every day, and I love it. Yes I've had a couple of sketchy calls, but I've never come off my bike and I don't blame anyone. Most people do the right thing, but it's busy and shit happens from time to time, and most of it really is within my own control. I control how fast I ride and the level of risk I'm willing to take.
But I draw the line in areas where I see parents with prams and/or young kids, or young couples/oldies holding hands and having a stroll. As a cyclist, I don't think I belong there. I want those people to enjoy themselves and those kids to feel free to run around without having to worry about bikes.
Cycling around kids and parents with prams can be perfectly safe, but it does require courtesy and respect, the common sense that seems not to be so common anymore.
I regularly ride a foreshore share path that travels through parkland sections for commuting and recreation. Weekday mornings it's easy, and can be plenty fast. Weekends or late afternoon can be very slow, but it's just what you deal with. Slow/cautious when there is vulnerable traffic, fast when there is none.
Maybe there should be a limit on how many stupid questions that can be posted on forums
should we impose a speed limit on running too? i'm sick of tired of people overtaking me on my 15kmph
Ban no, but instead impose a 2 metre buffer between each person to reduce the chance of collision or smell
What are you doing at 15km/h? That's a pretty fast runner to pass you at that pace, like top 20% of runners.
Ban the bicycle in public is the obvious solution
Yes, I agree we should ban pubic bicycles.
Or maybe instead we ban people that cant stick to the rules and share the road regardless of what form of transport they choose to use.
Of course there should! and i believe there already is in most major parks! I think is between 10=15 km/h
But this is just a guide, not an enforceable limit.
I believe that actually by law there is an official limit!
Don’t think so. Some parks have guidance signs, but speeds cannot be checked except on raids AFIAK
again…how fast do ppl go on their bikes!
I generally dont ride in parks, I avoid shared paths like the plague for all of the reasons mentioned above. I would rather take my chances on the roads but sometimes it is unavoidable. On a shared path i would ride slowly, perhaps 10 - 15 km/hr. I am most worried that a dog or kid will run out or that somebody acts unpredictably.
On the road i would go as fast as the conditions or my legs/lungs allowed. I have had my road bike over 85 km/hr (tailwind down a steep hill lying on the top tube Chris Froome style!!). On a road many enthusiast level riders are travelling around an average 25-30 ish km/hr, slower uphill and faster downhill.
Of course it depends on situations but, if u r riding with ur kids or whatever, park is the safest choice anyways, and i think it's best to be careful and know what u doing.
Should there be a speed limit for usain bolt in parks?
Don’t think so. Cars are significantly more powerful than bikes and much too easy to go too fast for conditions without realising your speed. There are many cars on the roads and capable of much more destruction than a bicycle and rider. Most riders are only capable of a reasonable speed for paths, not speeding without effort. On a bike you are connected with your fellow path users, not stuck in a big metal and glass box surrounded by the comforts of AC, music and comfy seats separated from the rear of humanity except for your Facebook updates.