Parking Fine by Private Company

Hi all, parked in a empty private parking lot at around 6pm,as no street parking available. Just went away 15 min for a takeaway, and come back to a bloody $80 fine! Surely..

Now, I'm not gonna dispute I tried my luck there, and got done. It's honestly in the middle of residential area with no cars parked there. I notice the ticket says "this is not a fine,but a breach of contract etc" . The private parking company operator is called pesau in WA. What are odd they will go after me if I don't pay the fine? Will they approach DOT for my details? I honestly not sure how they can police it?

Go easy on me.. I'll admit I'm broke (especially after Xmas) , but let's be fair, I'm only there for 15 min after business hours.. Surely the parking operator must be parked somewhere eagle eye me from far.

Here's the pic to the t&c

Related Stores

pesau.com.au
pesau.com.au

Comments

      •  

        They can’t clamp a car after the fact. Cars are not people and cars can’t enter into contracts. It’s merely a threat. Oh the trouble this would get them into.

        For example:

        • Licence plates are traded?
        • New owner of “clamp listed” car?
        • Or even a different driver!
        • Rental car

        A car can’t owe them money.

        •  

          Have a read of this. They might not be able to do it in Sydney, but Western Australian laws allow the private operators to clamp vehicles with outstanding "fines". I completely get what you're saying, but it's different over here.

          The points you've mentioned are completely valid and I assume would need to be queried with the private parking operator on appeal, eg. "I just bought this car last week". It's probably something they hear all the time, so you'd have to show the vehicle transfer papers in order to get the clamps removed - or pay the 'fine" up front and then chase your refund later.

          This is worth a read too

        •  

          @bonezAU: I suggest you carefully read both of those links. They cannot clamp cars after the fact. Yes they threaten to, they can threaten what they like.

          A car isn’t a person and can’t enter into a contract.

  • +6 votes

    This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer, don't complain if any advice given in an online forum by randoms gets you in trouble. Laws are different from state to state and you should consider the current law and any case law relevant to your state. With that said…

    My advice is tuck the 'fine' away in a drawer somewhere and ignore it. If you don't live in QLD there is only a very small chance you will hear anything further on the matter as other states in general won't pass on your private details of the owner of that license plate to random companies with no proof. In my experience, QLD does. Even still, if you do get some angry letters from them demanding payment, ignore them until they stop coming. Don't ever respond to them in any way. DO NOT ADMIT FAULT, your presence, or the presence of your car there in anyway if for some silly reason you do contact them.

    You may get threats of debt collectors, you may get threats from lawyers. The 'fine' will increase over time. But eventually they will just give up with their harassment. They won't ever take you to court or take any action beyond sending some letters (if they bother to do that).

    Their argument is that you made a 'contract' with them by parking the car there, as per the terms on their usually inconveniently placed signs. However a contract can not be made by a vehicle it is made by the person who was driving that vehicle. What proof do they have that you were driving the car? This isn't a fine, this isn't from the police or council. You have no obligation to provide them with details of who was driving on that night. You aren't responsible for contracts that people make with others while driving your vehicle.

    I got one parking in a free parking display a ticket area for a similar <10minute period, to pop into the shop for a click/collect that the parking was for. It wanted $66. I live in QLD so they got my address. The letter wanted $88. The next letter mentions debt collectors and wants $100something. Never got another letter. When I got the 'ticket' I saw the lady ticketing a car which did display its ticket. They'd been in the papers for doing that a few times. They're scum bags.

    TL:DR - ignore it. Its a 'legal' scam.

  • +2 votes

    Please update the post with your decision to ignore so we can move on. Sound advice has been provided. The lynch mob comes next.

  •  

    I love it trying to wrestle out of it.

  • +1 vote

    Thanks all, I decided to ignore the ticket until they chase me up one day (if they do). I never park in Wilson anyway, so I should be good.

    •  

      They can't chase you up because all they have is your number plate. They shouldn't have any of your contact details to chase you up unless they know you somehow. That's why this fine is not legit because they can't fine you. Fines in car parks are usually issued by the parking rangers working for the local council in which the State Revenue is involved.

  • -2 votes

    This has been discussed so much before, please use the search function

  •  

    You were fined but this fine is not legit so you will be fine.

    Unless your car was wheel clamped/blocked from exit you can just ignore the fine. Just don't return to the car park.

  • +1 vote

    TLDR I didn't circle the street and park where I am suppose to and now I got it trouble.

  •  

    To the people saying they won’t know your contact details: in WA they can obtain your details regardless of if you reply (forgot how but you can source it out) including your name etc and you WILL get a ton of mail.

    •  

      yes

      but they cant fine Registered Owner of vehicle.
      They can legally fine (breach of contract) to ** driver**.

  •  

    This happened to me about 2 years ago. I received a "breach of contract demand for payment" from ACE parking in Melbourne. It tried to look and feel physically like a genuine legal fine (from the police or council). I ignored it based on google advice/research. No repercussions so far.

  • +3 votes
    1. DO NOT CONTACT the parking company
    2. The parking company only has the car registration details - absolutely nothing else - they don't even have your name (unless you tell them if you ignore Step 1).
    3. The Police will not give them your name, nor will the relevant government department. They are absolutely stuck at this point.
    4. Without your name, they can't even prepare court documents to sue you (for breach of contract).
    5. As they can't prepare documents, they can't even file those documents on Court.
    6. Assuming they have your name, they need to personally "serve" you the court documents - which means they will then need your address OR at least a way to find you (maybe stalk you on Facebook and see which is your favourite cafe and how you look like) so they can give you the court documents in person. Again, if you don't engage with them - they don't know.

    Remember, DO NOT CONTACT them.

  • +1 vote

    Just some examples

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/pert...

    If you receive a private parking ticket for an unfair amount that is more than what the car park operator would lose when you haven’t paid for your parking fee, then this ticket could be illegal.

    https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/private-car-park-fines-kn...

    Best advise:

    1. Do Nothing
      The Consumer Action Law Centre has confirmed that if you receive a private parking ticket that you think is excessive, then you do have the option to do nothing at all. The reason is because the car park company will need to apply to the Magistrates Court to obtain your details. Also, the car park company is only allowed to chase after the driver who’s responsible for the debt, not the registered owner of the vehicle. So the company needs to prove you were the driver, and this can be difficult. If you receive a private parking ticket and you do nothing, then it will be hard for the car park operator to get your contact details and to prove that you are the driver who owes them the money.

    ** Whirlpool Discussion thread **
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1512784

  • +1 vote

    Just went away 15 min for a

    How much does it cost to park for 15 min?

    • +1 vote

      Well, actually it's just private parking spot for office.

      • +1 vote

        so there is no fees for parking there?

        • +1 vote

          nope, if you're visitor during business hours

  •  

    Ignore, unenforceable!

    Liquidated damages are only for an actual loss they have suffered. Have they suffered an $80 loss from you being there for 15mins too long? Nope. Therefore it's unenforceable, they know it and it's all one big (profanity) bluff to get some easy cash.

    I'm not sure if WA is the same as Qld but here they can get ur info so beware and expect a lot of unsolicited spam from these nasty vultures.

  •  

    If that "Private Company" had balls, they would have clamped your wheels.
    I wouldn't worry about it.

  •  

    Send them trump dollars of 4 billion for shits and giggles… https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iboAAOSwo4pYZGpC/s-l300.jpg

  •  

    "this is not a fine,but a breach of contract etc"

    This bit was rich.

  •  

    I got a 'parking fine' from carEpark even though I had a valid ticket at the time. Luckily I did my research and just ignored it. I kept a copy of their 'fine' and my parking ticket for the day they take me to court and I produce the evidence to laugh in their face.

    That day still hasn't come.

    Contacting them would have just put my details into their database.

    •  

      How long now?

      •  

        2.5 years

        • +1 vote

          Ok good to know…guess that's long enough.. in WA though?

  • +1 vote

    I wonder if you could escape parking fine from CPP in Perth CBD then? Gonna be a big big headache for parking operators if everyone know this little loophole. lol

    •  

      You could only escape from private car parks. Council run car parks can fine you. Public car parks can report it to the Police and press charges against you for fare evasion which could be a criminal offence.

      • -1 vote

        yea didn't think so too..

  • +1 vote

    Sell your car, the next person can deal with it. If that doesn’t work, move interstate, then change your name

    •  

      Moving overseas would make it even harder for them. If possible, a remote island with no extradition laws.

  •  

    The companies who do this will move onto clamping next which they can legally do even towing your vehicle away

    •  

      They can only clamp in WA. But they can tow in QLD at least. Usually in QLD they tow first time, because they can (and the 'fines' aren't enforceable), and they'll charge you hundreds just to get your car off the truck before they've moved it anywhere. Wild west in QLD.

      •  

        Jokes on them- you can't fit a tow truck in my local Secure park

  •  

    Be aware that though the liquidated damages clause may be construed as a penalty for want of being 'extravagant and unconscionable' (as opposed to a genuine pre-estimate of loss), the operator may still be able to enforce the stipulation to the extent of its actual loss. Unfortunately for them, that figure is so low that it is not worth anyone's time or money to launch an action to recover the supposed debt you owe them.

    See also unfair contract terms under the Australian Consumer Law, see specifically s 25(1)(c). Page 15 of this guide explains it in plain language: http://consumerlaw.gov.au/files/2015/09/Unfair_Contract_Term...

    Terms imposing penalties for trivial breaches of a contract by consumers may be unfair. A term may also be considered unfair if it threatens sanctions over and above those that can be imposed by law. A penalty imposed by a contract should bear a reasonable relationship to the loss likely to be suffered by the business as a result of the breach or early termination, and should not be an arbitrary sum.

  • -3 votes

    This isn't a fine, it's a payment demand. If you don't pay it they will get your details from motor reg and put it as a bad mark against your credit.

    Your best way out of this is to appeal the expiation, advising that you were not the driver, it was a friend of a friend visiting from overseas, now they've gone back. Give them that "friends" name and address, sorry don't have any other info than that.. expiation is out of your name and no longer your problem, they can chase up the "friend" for the money.

    •  

      Is that you Marcus Einfeld?

      •  

        lol — This is a private company we're dealing with, not a court of law :)

  • +1 vote

    Everyone's saying to ignore it being it's not enforceable.

    I'd be pissed if I owned a car park and can't fine people not playing by the rules, if it's private land and you parked you should have paid for a ticket.

    • +2 votes

      Just put up a boomgate and fence, then people can't leave until they pay their parking fees.

      And the breach notices are enforceable as long as it is in-line with the damage suffered (although likely not worth to time/effort to do so).

    •  

      Can't really get shitty at people for being dishonest if [you] the carpark owner is claiming unspecified damages and therefore also being dishonest.

      Even though it is private land, there are rules about when it is publicly accessible. Thats how cops can fine you for traffic offenses on private property. Same applies to tresspassing

    •  

      Apparently this is not a car park that requires (or offers) ticketing services. And it was outside business hours, so the loss to you the owner is $0. Agree that private land should be available only to people allowed to park there, but if it's open to the public and the businesses are closed, and it's nearly empty…… Small businesses in my area are nice and let people park there outside business hours, and even use their car parks for other community activities (I'm sure they get some rental kick backs from the odd food truck also). But I guess that's because they realise that people using the car parks out of hours might also be customers when they're open, and pissing off potential customers isn't great for their business.

  • -1 vote

    I did this in Queenstown with a rental car, one winter. Stopped in this carpark which had a sign "no parking, penalties apply" for 10mins to drop off the rental snowboarding gear. God back and some joker had clamped my car and was demanding $250 cash to unclamp. Tried negotiating, said i had no cash - end story i had to go get cash from an ATM and he unclamped my car. This guy sits outside the carpark, saw him do this a couple more times to people over the week.

    Not sure what his rights are, and i get its private property, but theres nothing i could do to get the car out without cash!

    •  

      You didn't think to call the local police for advice?

      •  

        i didn't, i was pretty young at the time, 22 i'd say - and was mostly shocked by the situation i was in! In hindsight i would have…

      •  

        The police have more serious things to deal with and besides he was at fault anyway. It’s private property with clear signs.

  •  

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/people.versus.australian.nat...

    facebook group for ppl who get fine from private car park :)

    solution: ignore them!

  •  

    Ignorance is bliss

  •  

    Very useful website full of information!
    https://sites.google.com/site/unfairfines/

    Pesau (a division of Wilson Parking, probably Parking Enforcement Services Australia?)
    https://sites.google.com/site/unfairfines/companies/parking-...

  •  

    UPDATE:

    In regards to the initial ticket mentioned in this thread, I just received a letter from Parking Enforcement Services after almost 6 months! Scared & surpised me little bit! Did they get my details from DoT?

    Would I be wise to ignore the letter still? It did threaten to clam my wheel in the future, but I never park in Wilson parking anyway, so I'm not too worried. It's still the original amount of $65 though. You think I could get away for not paying? Thanks

  •  
    Merged from Parking Fine by Private Company PART 2

    Continue from this previous thread https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/354505

    UPDATE:

    Contrary to popular belief, I just received a letter from Parking Enforcement Services after almost 6 months! Scared & surprised me a little bit! Did they get my details from DoT?!

    It still asks for the original amount of $65 though. You think I could get away for not paying still? It did threaten to clam my wheel if I'm found to park in Wilson carpark, but I never park at Wilson anyway (freaking rip off). So continue to ignore as advised before? Anyone else in the same boat in WA?

    P/S Mod, you may merge my threads if needed.

    • +1 vote

      Ignore ignore ignore.

      Or if you have balls, write them a nasty letter back (there are templates on the net) denying liability for the debt and send it registered post.

      •  

        Would that affect my credit rating though now that they got my home address and name?

        •  

          There is a minimum amount for a debt to be reported to a credit agency (I think $120 but you should check - n.b. eventually the parking company may assert that with interest etc the debt exceeds this amount, but that could take a long time).

          Also, the amount must actually be a debt owed (which it isn't, unless the fine amount was displayed when you entered the carpark, or the company actually sues you and wins this amount) in order to be reported, and not everyone is linked in with credit reporting agencies to report amounts like this.

    •  

      Just write them a letter telling them 'see u next Tuesday'.

      •  

        Don't get it, why Tues?

    • -1 vote
    •  

      Ignore it.

    •  

      You will find that you will be fine not paying this fine.

      They threatened to clam your car if you ever park in their car park again means they are powerless to enforce this fine.

    •  

      I'd love some armchair lawyers to input here. From the PESAU website FAQ:

      Q. ARE PRIVATE PARKING BREACH NOTICES ENFORCEABLE?

      A. Yes, private parking breach notices are enforceable under laws relating to contract and informed consent.

      Now, when I did contract law (a long time ago) three things were required for a contract to be in place… an offer, an acceptance and consideration (usually the money).

      I would say clear signage at the entrance to the car park could be considered an offer, and your parking and leaving your car could be considered acceptance, but I don't see there is any consideration, so I don't see that there is an enforceable contract in place.

      Anyone done first year contract law recently? Might be a good one to take to a tute and see what they think?

      As to how they got your details;

      Q. HOW DID YOU OBTAIN MY NAME AND ADDRESS?

      A. In some cases you may have provided your details in a previous appeal to Parking Enforcement Services, we also may have obtained the details by order of the applicable court in your state.

      Q. I HAVE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM MY STATE TRANSPORT AUTHORITY ADVISING THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED MY DETAILS. WHY HAVE YOU REQUESTED MY DETAILS?

      A. In most cases it will be because you have an outstanding parking breach notice, please contact us for further details or we will be in contact with you to advise when and where the breach notice was issued and the amount that is outstanding.

      It's hard to imagine an $80 fine is worth chasing up, but may be worth looking at the on-site signage to see how that may escalate if unpaid. You hear anecdotes of people who don't pay a few Transurban road tolls, next minute they have a bil for thousands…

      • +1 vote

        Another thing to have a valid contract is the identity of the two parties.

        Now, not saying people should abuse privately owned parking lots, but in regards to the company chasing the car owner for the debt, the owner may not have been the driver. And as it's just a contractual matter, the car owner has no obligation to identify the drive, such as they would if it was a council fine.

  •  

    Meh, bit confusing and worried still, but I still ain't willing to pay the fine when I only park for couple mins to pick up a takeaway on an empty car park. So I'll just continue to ignore then, will be interesting to see how far they will go to recover $65 lol.. My company even cbb to chase up $100 sometimes,they just be desperate.

  •  

    Any update on this?

    •  

      So far so good mate.. No more letters for almost 6 months now

      •  

        Thank you very much for the response. Yesterday receive a demand for payment from ACE parking. The funny stuff I actually had a ticket it just was placed incorrectly. Don't want to engage with this mob in any way.

  •  

    Hi All,

    Just got one of these letters, but can't recall ever parking in any areas on that day, as well as I would have needed to be in at work. I also don't have the ticket (never got one on the car), just a letter they sent saying overdue.

    They have all my name, address etc due to this loophole in QLD I guess…

    What to do, can't even contact them to find out what carpark it was from…

    •  

      Don't do anything. They will go away in a year or two.