What Has Happened to Desktop Computers? Literally Next to Nothing Worth Buying in The Shops?

Geekomatic on 18/01/2018 - 22:49
Last edited 19/01/2018 - 08:56 by 1 other user

True, I personally build all of ours, but worked in retail tech sales only a few years ago & we had plenty to choose from then, low-to-high end.

I've just had a client have me look at his old Core2 & it's finally cactus (either CPU or MB), so time to purchase new.

I give him a list of things to look for in a new PC (SSD & HDD, both if possible, 8GB RAM min, dedicated graphics card).

Good grief— he rings me to say he bought this piece of sh*te!

I opened the box & rang him to say, "no way". Not for nearly $1400, on CLEARANCE? Puleeze! Hardly's also told him it has SSD/HDD & I find nothing on the box nor website (nor HP's site) which states anything but one HDD of 2TB. It's also light as a frigging toaster & sports a PSU w/o a switch that looks like it came out of a gumball machine!

JB has one similar to this for $898— & I'm still reeling at THAT price. What the H is going on?

Does anyone know a decent place, near Mandurah, WA that still sells a worthwhile PC tower?

I'm gob-smacked, it's just so dismal. He's in a hurry, or I'd buy & build.

:(

Computing

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 23:07
    +6

    build one……

    or buy a laptop..

  • Randxyz123 on 18/01/2018 - 23:08
    +4

    He's in a hurry, or I'd buy & build.

    I'd just knock him out a decent build from whatever MSY or your local store has in stock. Shouldn't take long to put everything together. Longest part is installing windows and all the other sh**. Don't worry too much about getting him the cheapest possible price he's your client. Charge him a premium for a quick build.

    • montorola on 19/01/2018 - 09:13

      I'd just knock him out a decent build

      I'd just knock him out in general lol

  • Nutrino on 18/01/2018 - 23:11
    +4

    feel better that you got that off your chest?.

    cmon, there will always be people who pay full rrp.

    • montorola on 19/01/2018 - 08:31

      At least that keeps HN running so I can go in when they have absolute bargains lol

  • subywagon on 18/01/2018 - 23:30
    +1

    Has there ever been desktop deals? I would never consider buying one pre-made ever.

    • follow on 18/01/2018 - 23:33

      there's good ones on ebay currently

      • subywagon on 18/01/2018 - 23:34

        ah I should amend what I wrote, I meant pre-made new systems from Bricks and mortars lol

    • airal3rt on 18/01/2018 - 23:34

      Of course there has, it's just rare and never for prices approaching RRP. There have been certain prebuilts lately that are as cheap or cheaper than a roughly equivalent build due to GPU markup with crypto mining.

  • retiredfeline on 18/01/2018 - 23:33
    +2

    Harvey Moron

    That explains it.

  • follow on 18/01/2018 - 23:34

    what's ya budget?

  • p1 ama on 18/01/2018 - 23:36
    +1

    JB has one similar to this for $898— & I'm still reeling at THAT price. What the H is going on?

    Perhaps a bit unfair. I think $898 is actually a good price. Breaking it down will give something similar:

    • i5 7400 CPU - $240
    • ASUS B250M-K Motherboard - $105
    • 8GB DDR4 - $149
    • 2TB HDD - $80
    • El Cheapo Case and PSU - $70
    • Wireless Card - $25 (it has WLAN)
    • El Cheapo Wireless KB/Mouse - $30
    • Windows 10 - $125

    Total - $824

    An el-cheapo case and PSU will also look like crap compared to this and will have little warranty (i.e. if the HP PSU shits itself, then they will replace your PC, same can't be said about getting some cheapo PSU).

    I think $74 for labour + warranty is more than fair enough. Not sure why you think it's not a good deal at $898. I wouldn't pay $1400 for it, I wouldn't pay $898 for it either to be honest, but objectively, it's a decent deal at $898.

    • Geekomatic on 18/01/2018 - 23:42
      +2

      That's where I'm sending him, as I stated.

      And yes, I DO understand built is better— I've done so, but prefer not to. Every, little thing becomes a "warranty call". Small town bad-rep is deadly, so I try to steer-clear.

      What I'm whinging about is: wth happened in retail towers?

      AIO/NUC aren't a tower & there IS a place for towers to exist in retail. I'm honestly surprised!

      • p1 ama on 19/01/2018 - 00:03
        +3

        What I'm whinging about is: wth happened in retail towers?

        There's not a market for them.

        Limiting ourselves to end consumers (i.e. not businesses buying by the truckload), then there are really three types of people:

        1) The 80% who are served by ultrabooks, and mostly need things like SSDs to boost responsiveness over raw CPU/GPU power. For these people, a laptop makes more sense. They can also connect it to an external monitor when they need to.

        2) The 15% of people who need a higher performance system - i.e. they are fine with a performance notebook with something like a 7700HQ or some of the latest ultrabooks with quad core processors.

        3) The remaining 5% who actually need more performance than a laptop or NUC. Most of these people are fine with building their own machine anyway. So really, there just is no market for a mass-market tower.

        The thing is, I think that computers (in general) have reached their peak. They used to be something you would own only if you really needed one. Over time, they became something that you would find in every household. Then everyone got their own personal computers (i.e. mostly laptops) and you had multiple devices per household.

        Now I know of people who are giving up computers at home in general. They just use their smartphones and tablets for everything. I respect this greatly as I would never be able to give up my pride and joy rig at home, but that's just the way people are going now.

        • Geekomatic on 19/01/2018 - 02:30

          I hear that— but I still contend that tablets are an accessory to a PC. I recover data from tabs & phones a LOT— & I have to use a desktop to do it most of the time.

          Laptops are okay- but not great. Tablets are a created manipulation to sell touch screens which weren't selling until retailers killed netbook sales. Then, netbooks came back— as "ultrabooks" w/high specs/prices.

          Now, the race to the retail bottom is truly shite.

          Ugh

        • p1 ama on 19/01/2018 - 09:11

          @Geekomatic: Tablets are a created manipulation? I'm not sure about that - I have plenty of uses for a tablet where a notebook will be less ideal. E.g. when I'm just browsing the internet, a tablet is just easier to use.

          Netbooks and Ultrabooks are not the same idea. Netbooks were just cheap machines through and through. Ultrabooks focused on the things that most people actually need. They have SSDs to make them more responsive, better quality screens…etc.

          What's this race to the retail bottom? If you want a custom desktop and aren't keen to build, just pay MSY or some computer shop to do it for you. Like I said before, it's not detail's fault that the desktop is not generally wanted.

        • shuffle1 on 19/01/2018 - 11:34

          I think there's also a proportion who don't need a high performance system, but also don't need the portability of a laptop. They might place more importance on a bang-for-buck desktop build, which is more upgradeable in future and has more ports. A desktop also can sit out of the way on the floor, whereas a laptop connected to an external monitor would take up desk space.

        • p1 ama on 19/01/2018 - 11:38
          +1

          @shuffle1: You can pick out parts and any local computer store will build it and provide return to base warranty for around $70-80, so the service exists. I think what OP wants is to just be able to walk into HN or JB and pick up a desktop, but the market just isn't there for that.

        • Geekomatic on 20/01/2018 - 17:22

          @p1 ama:

          Even though we were still selling lots of netbooks— all of a sudden we were shipping in tablets & netbooks vanished. Personally, I believe a lot of it was that tablets just didn't look as good a bargain sitting next to a netbook. They were reborn later with better CPU's/more RAM & then priced at starting figures of $600 or so as "ultra-books".

          Touchscreen technology was there for a long time before it was heavily marketed. At the time, we were selling those nice little netbooks @ roughly $2-300 with full MS OS & 250-320GB HDD's. I remember when the tablets came in. A lot of people liked the "wow" factor of the touchscreen, but then I'd hear the negatives, "no keyboard", "sound worse than a netbook", "too little storage" (& expensive then). "Why would I buy the tablet over a full OS netbook"?

          To fix all of that, the entire "tablet accessory" realm was created. NO KB? Buy this. Bad sound? Buy this. Need storage? Buy this. So yeah, I do see it as a lot of manipulation.

          Obviously, it does depend on what your uses are. If you mainly "consume" info then you don't need much power. If you create content or need decent power, it makes a big difference.

          Imho- just one person's perspective.

        • p1 ama on 20/01/2018 - 21:55

          @Geekomatic:

          At the time, we were selling those nice little netbooks @ roughly $2-300 with full MS OS & 250-320GB HDD's.

          They were also generally pretty crap for most uses though. They were bad for consuming content as well as producing content. Sooner or later, that market was going to die out.

          To fix all of that, the entire "tablet accessory" realm was created. NO KB? Buy this. Bad sound? Buy this. Need storage? Buy this. So yeah, I do see it as a lot of manipulation.

          How is that manipulation? If you need those things, then a tablet isn't for you. Who's manipulating you?

          Obviously, it does depend on what your uses are. If you mainly "consume" info then you don't need much power. If you create content or need decent power, it makes a big difference.

          It's not about power - that's something that many PC guys still don't get - believe me, I'm a PC guy, but I've come to understand this now. Just because a machine is more powerful doesn't intuitively make it a better machine to use. There are many factors at play here - how portable it is, how responsive it is (which is not power, this is mostly software), how easy it is to pick up and use…etc. To just limit it to a power argument is like going back to the 1990s.

          These devices now cater to a very wide audience. I would go so far as to say that computer technology in the past 10 years hasn't actually changed all that much. My i7 920 from that era is still "powerful" enough for the majority of users.

          Imho- just one person's perspective.

          You can't make wild claims, e.g. tablets are manipulation, and say that it is an opinion or perspective. There has to be some factual underpinning to that.

        • Geekomatic on 20/01/2018 - 23:20

          @p1 ama:

          I still use a netbook of that vintage, so that dispels your points there.

          The other bit is just how many 15+" laptops entered the shops afterwards sporting the under-powered & old Atom CPUs.

          Not only Atom, but the DVD drive was a fake. No drive installed.

          You absolutely have your opinion, I only worked in it, then & now.

          Ta

          PS: a whole lot of people don't understand manipulation. Like, MS foisting updates. Google, "frog in the pot".

          I also work every day in tech— so yeah, I have a bit of real-world insight, ta.

        • p1 ama on 20/01/2018 - 23:33

          @Geekomatic:

          Not only Atom, but the DVD drive was a fake. No drive installed.

          What are you even talking about?

          You absolutely have your opinion, I only worked in it, then & now.

          Nope, I have facts.

          PS: a whole lot of people don't understand manipulation. Like, MS foisting updates. Google, "frog in the pot".

          Just saying "other people don't understand" isn't really evidence.

          I also work every day in tech— so yeah, I have a bit of real-world insight, ta.

          Could also mean that you have a biased view, so horses for courses there.

        • Geekomatic on 21/01/2018 - 00:11

          @p1 ama:

          The very fact that you have no idea about the fake DVD slot is telling.

          I worked in retail tech sales, & still do. What facts are you presenting to dispute my opinion, then to now?

          "Frog in the pot" is a fairly well-known syndrome of people slowly accepting less & less. Google can explain.

          A biased view is not really what's happening here. I'm relating a factual, "real-life"/"real-time" set of events.

          Are you a Trump, "fake news" fan, by any chance?

        • p1 ama on 21/01/2018 - 00:39

          @Geekomatic:

          I worked in retail tech sales, & still do.

          Good for you, doesn't suddenly make you right. Plenty of people who work in some profession know jack about their work.

          "Frog in the pot" is a fairly well-known syndrome of people slowly accepting less & less. Google can explain.

          Irrelevant, what I see is a shift in what is provided to better match what consumers want. Your view is that tablets are somehow less featured than netbooks, but that is simply not in touch with reality. Yes, there are certain features that tablets lose (e.g. the keyboard), however, tablets have gained portability, better quality screens, better responsiveness and performance…etc.

          To say that you are getting less is simply factually wrong - you get a different set of features, I agree, it may suit your preferences less, fine. However, it's funny you're accusing others of manipulating when you seem to be at odds with what's happening.

          Are you a Trump, "fake news" fan, by any chance?

          Nope, I like facts, the guy doesn't.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/01/2018 - 06:53
    +2

    I appreciate that shops are closed but in the four hours you've been venting you could have driven to your nearest msy or equivalent, purchased components and assembled a great desktop pc for $1400.

    BTW, I agree with your initial post.

    • Geekomatic on 21/01/2018 - 00:13

      If it were me, I'd steer this person there— 100%.

      Thank you— and sometimes IT work can be stupidly maddening.

  • Peace Maker on 19/01/2018 - 08:22
    +1

    HN would have organised a sweet deal on some extra essentials like an ultra extended double platinum warranty that the sales person practically gave away for nothing and some premium anti virus like McAfee. Don’t forget MS Office at a ‘ive never sold it this cheap before’ price. /s.

  • montorola on 19/01/2018 - 08:33
    +1

    I'm tempted to go into HN myself, act dumb and be like "what's a RAM?"

  • smuggler on 19/01/2018 - 08:40

    What?

    Hp.com.au or dell.com.au

    Plenty of desktops there. Buy a business one.

    • Geekomatic on 20/01/2018 - 17:07

      I was speaking of desktop PC's on offer at the usual B&M's such as HN, JB, TGG, etc….

      Desktops have just about dropped out entirely. There used to be a lot more selection only a few years ago. True that there are laptops, but there were good-specced/priced laptops then, too— and there were still plenty of desktop towers.

      And while I can appreciate that mobile phones & tablets have snagged attention, you really can't compare the experience of those to a proper desktop. Likewise, the most powerful laptop will always be anemic in comparison to a desktop.

      It just seems very odd that as late as say, 2014, there was much more choice out there.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/01/2018 - 09:24
    +2

    "Mandurah, WA"

    Well there's your problem.

  • toomuchdogfur on 19/01/2018 - 09:59

    Most people don't game, and as such are served fine by basic laptops. Additionally more and more of us are getting crammed into apartments, where space is at a premium - so with no room for a study, a lot of people do that work on the couch on the living room, on their laptops.

    I'd wager the only groups that really need a desktop are gamers (who usually can build their own or knows someone who can) and work-from-home employees or business owners (which is still a relatively small group of the population).

  • Geekomatic on 20/01/2018 - 01:22

    Okay, just so you know the outcome:

    I had him return that super-light-weight piece of hp junk & he swapped for the Acer T-series. i5/8GB/GT730 Dedicated card/wifi-ac/bt/front usb w/usb3 & standard headset/mic.
    128GB + 2TB.

    $1349 VS. $1098.

  • tonyjzx on 20/01/2018 - 12:09

    even here there used to be a number of big name and white box pc deals… where did they all go?

    thing is people just dont want desktops

    i visit a lot of different business and many have moved to laptops and a LCD and kbd mouse instead

    for my purposes, i'm still using an old z87 and x79 system as there's no need to upgrade

    it used to be that many enthusiasts would get excited over each new generation of desktop PC hardware but thats not the case for quite a while

    • Geekomatic on 21/01/2018 - 00:14

      When your box is obsolete— what?

      Will you use a underpowered laptop?

      My point is that even if you're NOT a gamer
      , a desktop is simply superior.

      xx

  • shuffle1 on 30/01/2018 - 14:28

    Just noticed, ALDI's got a desktop coming up in special buys ;)

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/358386

  • Geekomatic on 31/01/2018 - 01:52

    I ended up recommending the Harvey Norman offering of the TC-780 @ $1098 (my clients bargained down a few more $). Our local shop only has the display left now ;)

    I had three clients grab one & it's been a joy to set-up. SSD is the Kingston SSD/128, but to anyone who has never had one, it's light-speed. Offload the user folders to the 2TB HDD & optimize the performance settings & it's a rocket. One fellow I spoke to (dead Win 7 laptop) was interested in Linux. I went through the Win 10 install, optimized, & created a system image. Blew it away & installed Mint 18. Then, Virtualbox where I installed & activated the Win 7 from the failed laptop. Happy camper.

    Just wanted to check back to say— if you or someone you know is looking for a nice desktop PC, this Acer at HN is pretty sweet.

    FYI

    PS: Acer's site doesn't state it & there's a lot of erroneous info out there: the unit has Wifi-A/C & BT, built-in + 2TB HDD, not 1TB as stated on some review sites for the same model.

  • wannagrababargain on 31/01/2018 - 10:37

    Component prices have been going up in recent years. The HP had a price premium because of the expensive Optane memory which would have been set up as a storage cache like a transparent (32GB) SSD that caches the most commonly used files - this is what the SSD/HDD comment would have been based on. IMO dedicated graphics is not a 'must have' in a desktop anymore unless the user is a heavy 3D gamer. These OEMs charge a huge premium for these lowest end dedicated card. In the case that the user was a heavy 3D gamer then they should actually steer away from the lowest end cards because they are considered the worst value for money from a 3D/gaming perspective.

    Agree that walking into a shop and trying to work out which PC to buy is (and probably always has been?) an abysmal experience. I use Lenovo and Dell websites as a general price reference for retail desktop configs. Not a bad experience to buy online from these big guys, you have the specs plainly listed in front of you, can customise the build and it's delivered in a couple days.

    • Geekomatic on 31/01/2018 - 14:33

      As I stated, I personally would have gone online to purchase, but the people had been without a computer, for days already, & wanted it "now".

      Optane or no, it was toaster-weight & felt like a tinfoil case/PSU— no thanks. The Acer is incredibly speedy & everything "just-right", imho.

      Cheers

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