Why Is Personal Finance Not Taught in High Schools

phocus on 14/03/2018 - 09:56

As I get older and talking to coworkers, friends and family about finances. It appears that there is a significant population that don't understand basic finances, like budgeting, investment, loans, super, etc.

This seems like a pretty basic life skill that all people will need to encounter in life in order to live in this day and age. Why is this not a subject in mandatory in most high schools?

It pains me to see people living above their means. Sure its intuitive not to do that, but some people don't understand even basic budgeting to make ends meet.

Financial

Comments

  • Donaldhump on 14/03/2018 - 10:01
    +62

    they want people to be financially illiterate imho, fat cats wouldnt make as much money if no one was in debt

    • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 11:26
      +11

      Banks and governments make a lot more money from people that invest wisely than those who can't make repayments.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:04
        +25

        But more still from all the people in between who live with debt for most of their lives.

        • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 15:19
          -6

          Nah, a lot of those smart rich investors in one single investment would be paying more in one capital gains tax than those inbetweeners pay in tax their whole life.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:21
          +15

          @c0balt:

          But there are umpteen inbetweeners for every smart rich investor.

        • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 15:28
          -5

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          Sorry I misread your above comment that I replied to.

          Yes, of course banks want people to repay the interest on the loan agreed to - and will get money from those who can repay and not really from those who can't. It's in the interest of the banks, government and businesses to keep people who have loans solvent (especially on a grand scale if there was to be an economic force that would result in a lot of people not able to repay their loans) to keep the system going.

          I'm just making the counter point to an argument that a lot of people have. Their argument being that banks, government and businesses want people to be in debt - rather than making money so that they can make more money. It's a destructive view to have and it justifies their world view that people are just 'wage slaves' in western capitalist democracies, when in reality we have more freedom to choose what we want to do and what our means of living are than any other system.

          Of course there's shady lending, and there's a lot of shady people who take out loans who would never be able to repay them. But the system as a whole promotes wealth all around if people are fiscally responsible.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/03/2018 - 17:24
          +20

          @c0balt:
          Whilst I share most of your views above, I believe that the government is in favour of a society in debt.

          The whole system of tax, registrations, permits, tariffs… essentially tax in all its creative synonyms lend itself to putting everyone in debt.

          If I chose not to work and live off the land, I still have to buy a hunting or fishing permit. GST has found it's way into practically every transaction. People need money just for the privilege of survival so they go to work.

          The tax free threshold, let's call it $18,000 (just an estimate since it is a distant memory) isn't enough for someone to survive on. If I want to work, I have to live somewhere where work is available, I can no longer be completely self reliant for food and probably have to pay for transport. $18,000 won't cut it, so I work more.

          The more I work the more tax I pay and the less self reliant I can afford to be. Soon I am dependant on society or have a family that doesn't want to go back and live off the land, so I buy a house. Now I have a mortgage.

          The government and corporations need workers and this is how they ensure that the majority of the population is "incentivised". It sounds insidious but it is necessary and it is the best system we have. Just because we have to be in debt to be kept working doesn't mean we are void of social economic mobility.

          I agree that just because money management, amongst other values, aren't tought in school doesn't mean the government is trying to create a class of wage slaves. People still have to take responsibility for their cultural values.

        • outlander on 14/03/2018 - 20:48
          +1

          @c0balt:

          People like easy money. Doesn't get much easier than credit cards. 18% + fees, for doing very little? Thats pretty easy money.

          They don't want you to default, of course, because then they can't get their money, but they are happy to push you as close to the line without going over.

        • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2018 - 19:24
          +1

          @outlander:
          Same can be said with people who take out loans they cannot afford.

          I'm not saying the banks aren't predatory but surely some blame has to fall on individuals who think they do not have to pay back what they've borrowed.

    • The Wololo Wombat on 14/03/2018 - 13:44
      +113

      I am a high school teacher. Heaps of the maths curriculum teaches skills useful financial skills - budgeting, investing, compound interest, debt, loans, percentages, even finding the better deal between two similar items. Many, many contextual examples are given.

      Students certainly encounter all the skills they need to be successful. There is no 'conspiracy'; just because you might not remember doing it in school, doesn't mean it doesn't happen today. What's more likely (imo) is that you care/didn't listen because it wasn't relevant to you back then.

      The Australian Curriculum is full of exactly what you are claiming is absent. In fact, in QLD, in Snr, it's compulsory to do maths, and students who struggle choose 'Maths A' or 'Prevocational Maths', which is (almost exclusively) in a context that applies to everyday life.

      My own anecdotal experience has found a peculiar correlation: those who didn't listen/care about maths in high-school are the same who complain about maths not being relevant and blame the teacher or blame the system… while those who DID listen, have the necessary skills and find questions like these peculiar….

      You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

      • MathNerd on 14/03/2018 - 14:27
        +23

        I'm a high school maths teacher, and can unequivocally vouch for what TWW has said above.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:06
          +16

          I paid attention in school and can unequivocally vouch for what TWW has said above.

        • MikeKingGT on 14/03/2018 - 16:44
          +29

          @Scrooge McDuck: I did not pay attention in maths and unequivocally vouch that 2+2=4-1=3 quick maths.

        • syousef on 14/03/2018 - 17:42
          +1

          I did mostly higher math and science courses but no economics, business or finance. I do remember doing probability and compound interest, but we only did the barest coverage of how to budget etc. My schooling was 80s and early 90s. To be fair that would have bored the crap out of me as a teen anyway.

        • HumbleCat on 14/03/2018 - 23:24
          +1

          I don't remember high school….actually I don't remember what I even did when I was young…

        • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2018 - 13:15

          @Scrooge McDuck:

          I went to school in the 80s and 90s, and even then, we had a huge proportion of the mandatory Maths and Commerce Curricula devoted to personal finance, double-entry bookkeeping, etc.

        • h4zey on 15/03/2018 - 17:07
          +3

          I paid attention in school and now I am buying AMG as my first high yield investment car straight out of uni!!

        • sohail11 on 16/03/2018 - 12:50

          @h4zey: Are you an analyst for one of the big banks by any chance? ;) ahahaha

      • outlander on 14/03/2018 - 14:45
        +12

        I've been out of school for more than a decade, but I can confirm they were teaching most of those things in further maths (the lowest math subject for those unfamiliar) back then.

        The problem most people have with it is that its taught abstractly, with unrelatable examples, so most people just gloss over and categorize it as useless information. I know that's what I did

        • kev98 on 14/03/2018 - 14:59

          While they definately teach it, I know ‘commerce’ wasn’t compulsory at my school. I got a lot out of it, and it goes into more detail about the fundamentals of personal finance than the maths course did. That said, maybe I only got something out of it because I was interested.

        • outlander on 14/03/2018 - 15:07

          @kev98:

          Maybe you were ahead of the curve :P

          What gets taught in commerce? I did an elective in business, which taught me precisely jack shit about business, but had a fun game about picking stocks. Is it like that?

        • kev98 on 14/03/2018 - 15:18

          @outlander: don’t think we did stock picks from memory, I think that was done in economics class. Some of the topics part of commerce… (http://www.skwirk.com/p-s_s-18/commerce/nsw)

          Consumer choice
          Topic 1: Decisions and consequences
          Topic 2: Consumer protection
          Topic 3: Payment and records

          Personal finance
          Topic 1: Income
          Topic 2: Borrowing
          Topic 3: Financial responsibility
          Topic 4: Finance and investing

          Pretty sure we covered more in Business Studies as well, though obviously related more to business finance.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:23
          +1

          @kev98:

          I wish I could redo highschool. 12 units of free education wasn't enough.

        • abuch47 on 14/03/2018 - 21:10

          This is me. Did hard maths all hichschool except final year, breezed through it doing loan shit and now can't remember a thing. We even did house loans and I bought a house 4 years after. Didn't sink in at all. and by breezed through it I got an A+ on the exam without a single moment of thought to revision. classic underacheiver.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:30
        +4

        You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

        But you can hook it up to an IV.

      • cashless on 14/03/2018 - 16:24
        +3

        High school maths is pretty good when it comes to teaching some aspects of personal finance (working out incomes, tax etc).
        But one of its failures is that credit card debt is at an obscene level in Australia and it's not only because of banks freely promoting debt.
        An area of potential improvement for teaching high school kids would be personal debt management.
        Could simply be a case of inviting an outsider (non-teacher, maybe a reformed c/card addict) into the school to give talks.

        Then there is also the banks to deal with - can't imagine them being too keen to teach young people about the evils of debt.

        • outlander on 14/03/2018 - 17:39
          +3

          I heard a maths teacher had a lot more attention payed when he told the class the information would be useful for dealing drugs, but that might have been a myth.

        • grr1701 on 15/03/2018 - 09:27
          +12

          @outlander: I heard that a maths teacher was arrested while boarding a plane because he had a ruler and protractor in his carry-on bag. He was charged with carrying weapons of maths instruction. But that might be a myth too. 😂

        • MathNerd on 15/03/2018 - 17:06

          @grr1701:

          He was charged with carrying weapons of maths instruction

          I recently got back to Australia from a trip to the US, and on the long 17 hour DFW-SYD leg, I got charged with using weapons of maths instruction.
          All I did was get out my laptop and start making interactive files on my CAS calculator application.

        • Roja on 17/03/2018 - 12:50

          @MathNerd:

          Username checks out

      • Illian on 14/03/2018 - 19:32
        +3

        The problem is that these things aren't presented in a context that leads to the students applying it to their own lives. It's presented as maths instead of a life skill. They're just things to remember for an exam and forget later, which is part of the problem with our educational system. I don't think it would be that difficult to make a few changes and spend just a couple more weeks each year to teach these skills in an applicable way which will stick with them when they actually get to the point in their lives where these things are relevant.

        • peacenik on 16/03/2018 - 13:06

          you probably can't help people who don't think that maths is a useful life skill.

        • lambsie on 16/03/2018 - 17:33

          This is where project based learning (PBL) and problem based learning may be more beneficial, especially in junior high school.

          The issue is that teachers are bounded by the constraints in the curriculum; you'd plan perhaps 2-3 periods on it before you need to move on. You also got to factor in the amount of time we spend on behaviour management. A PBL project generally needs time for students to plan, develop and work towards.

      • kingmw on 14/03/2018 - 19:54
        +3

        While high schools may teach it, parents need to reinforce and apply what is being taught to their kids. However the parents themselves may be bad with money/finances and therefore teach their kids bad habits.

        Your maths classes is only 3-4 times a week, but your parents are with you everyday. So you can see where children are likely going to learn their personal finance skills from…..

      • quanticism on 14/03/2018 - 20:43

        Most of the questions related to finance would have been in the junior high school years for a Maths course. Simply because the underlying mathematics is too conceptually basic compared to senior high school topics such as calculus and complex numbers. Budgeting, investing, debts, loans, percentages and the like just boil down to basic arithmetic. In fact, I only remember questions involving compound interest in Year 11 because that was related to the sum of a GP.

        Economics is supposed to come in here but that was full of dry Austrian economics theory. Given how everyone wants money, I wished they would have at least taught us what exactly "money" is. How it is produced. How the world's currencies are linked to the American dollar Why the American dollar moved from gold to oil, etc.

        I suppose if you wanted to make the course more relevant, we will have to move away from dry, structured textbook questions. Get the students to use stock simulators, play with leverage, understand basic charting terminologies (and watch them become gamblers). Give them yesterday's financial news and break down the financial terminology and what the implications of changing each financial variable is. Explain what some of the causes of the 2008 Financial Crisis are and what how the QE bandaids helped. Explain why they'll never be able to buy their own house when the prices rise faster than their income. This is of course all wishful thinking because at the end of the day, dry structured textbook questions is the safest way to make sure you cover all the topics.

      • kenunderscore on 14/03/2018 - 23:13
        +3

        I graduated from high school top of my class 3 years ago and can confirm that most of these financial skills were taught to us. However, the way it was taught in our school (and in many others according to friends) felt rather forced and for the sake of passing assessments rather than developing useful skills that can be used later on in life - so you could understand how for many the teachings could be lost in translation.

      • Blitzfx on 14/03/2018 - 23:43

        hey mate, just wanted to say that when I was going through highschool, they only taught this in our accounting class, not our math classes, although it was very easy to learn when needed. (I never took accounting)

      • peterw1 on 15/03/2018 - 15:37

        you can take figures to a politician but you can't make them think

      • [Deactivated] on 15/03/2018 - 17:55
        +1

        As someone who was very good at maths at school, I had no idea how to choose a superannuation provider or lodge an income tax return when I started working. I also wouldn't know where to start if I was in the market for a home loan, and only very recently have I learnt how to trade shares on the ASX.

        While I completely agree with what you have said, I think OP is more saying that these sort of practical skills are not taught at school.

        Maybe, as you have suggested, if you pay enough attention in class the idea is that you learn enough basic skills needed to work this stuff out when you hit the real world.

      • Oz80085 on 15/03/2018 - 19:18

        I'm also a Maths teacher and TWW is spot on. Some students just couldn't care less about learning about it and pay the price later in life. Also, it is hard for kids to understand because at their age they likely don't have any money. By the time they have a meaningful context (i.e money of their own), it's too late. I do think that it should be covered as a separate subject though and more of it done. The Mathematics curriculum doesn't give enough emphasis to finance IMHO.

        • lambsie on 16/03/2018 - 17:42

          Completely agree. We go through most of this in 'personal finance' within stage 5 commerce. It is a subject I feel should be compulsory for all students, or we perhaps could remove bits of geography that overlap (it would keep other faculties happy as well). We have the subject that already exist and teachers to teach it ready, its a matter of making it part of compulsory curriculum.

          Personally, I quite enjoy teaching the subject as well, and the amount the kids learn is amazing (Resume writing, mock interviews, I've had kids get back paid by their bosses after learning their minimum wages, knowing their rights, applying for TFNs, etc).

      • ColonialBoy on 15/03/2018 - 20:02
        +1

        As a maths teacher I agree 100%. Its there & I've taught it. An extract from the Maths A syllabus:

        https://www.qcaa.qld.edu.au/downloads/senior/snr_maths_a_08_…

        Students should be encouraged to develop a working knowledge of the mathematics involved in financial transactions and be aware of their underlying conditions to enable them to make informed decisions on credit and investments. Consumer and financial literacy is important for all
        students to empower them to make informed consumer decisions and to understand the financial consequences of observed increases in household spending. Students’ learning will be enhanced by the use and simple manipulation of associated financial formulas as required and the use of electronic technology.

        As for school being irrelevant I still have documentation from 1979 when I was in Grade 12, giving the formulae for amortization and annuities, because I knew it would be useful. And it has been.

      • slugsandsnails on 16/03/2018 - 06:21

        Yes I remember this being taught to me in high school maths in the 90s. Remember touching on this at primary school too. Eg. Shopping scenarios calculating the best deal - things like that.

    • jakeau on 14/03/2018 - 20:17

      Hahaha

    • dlakers3peat on 14/03/2018 - 20:37
      +1

      The world's economy is based on debt. Without it there is no economy.

    • icejester on 16/03/2018 - 11:18

      Financial literacy is just maths

      Aussie schooling says maths is not compulsory after year 10 so most people drop it and then become financially illiterate.

      Simple cause and effect relationship.

      Studies have shown people who are good at maths live happier lives.

  • Fergy1987 on 14/03/2018 - 10:06
    +20

    I don't think its a schools responsibility to tell you what you do with your money. If people are too stupid to not have a budget and take it upon themselves to manage their own finances then that's their problem.

    I sit there and look at people who have household incomes of 300K and are in massive amounts of debt and live pay cheque to pay cheque because they blow their money on ridiculous cr@p like $100,000 dollar cars they don't need etc. Having to listen to their "Money troubles" just irks me because its really not that hard to do.

    • mskeggs on 14/03/2018 - 10:11
      +14

      But I want it NOW!

    • phocus on 14/03/2018 - 10:13
      +8

      I'm not expecting the schools to tell people what to do with their finances. But at least be educating on different ways to manage finances.

      • ozhunter on 14/03/2018 - 10:23

        But once you're out of school, surely you would be smart enough to know things the basics of a credit card/loan and that if you spend all your money one week, that you won't have any savings and would need to wait for your next week's pay.

        • phocus on 14/03/2018 - 10:28
          +2

          You would think so.

          But it appears not so. I think some people can easily fall into the traps of credit and end up living week by week. Would this have happened if they were educated earlier? Finances can be more complicated, especially once mortgages and other stuff get involved. Don't get me started on the amount of people who dont ever understand what super is

        • Fergy1987 on 14/03/2018 - 10:42
          +2

          @phocus: I think people are going to do what they are going to do whether they are educated or not. I think some people are just dense. I know people working in the financial planning industry who get personal loans to buy handbags. I think no amount of education will stop peoples actions unfortunately.

        • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 10:59
          +3

          @phocus:

          The people I know that fell into the debt trap wouldn't have even paid attention in class to how to avoid debt and how to structure their finances if it was offered.

          You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. People are free to make horrible decisions if they choose, but they need to take responsibility of their stupidity and make an effort to turn it around. It's the only way a lot of people learn - from their mistakes.

          It's too easy to blame others, like in this case the schools, their parents, or even the banks for giving the loans rather than the person themselves.

        • dcep on 14/03/2018 - 11:17
          +5

          @phocus:

          smoking / booze / drugs / gambling , all same shit as bad debt

          ppl still doing it , when the damage is obvious / regardless of being educated

        • idonotknowwhy on 14/03/2018 - 13:42
          +1

          Contrary to the name, there's no such thing as "common sense".
          Talking to random peers, collegues, people both younger and much older than me, a lot of people are confused by these topics.
          (I've made a lot on ING referrals by getting people to move their savings over from 1%ish interest rates to 3%ish)

        • User102430 on 14/03/2018 - 23:56

          @idonotknowwhy:
          yes, it should be called "rare sense" if anything

        • idonotknowwhy on 15/03/2018 - 05:25

          @galileo77: I often call it "uncommon sense"

      • belongsinforums on 15/03/2018 - 00:00

        public schools teach percentage from year 5 in australia, and addition and subtraction from prep. there is certainly an expectation for year 10 students to be able to calculate percentages and complete basic operations.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/03/2018 - 15:52
      +2

      Realistically, if your household income is $300k, you can’t afford a $100k car. This doesn’t seem to matter to many people however. Where I work, I see $150k cars parked in front of $350k houses. Some people really have no idea. Where I live, I see people with $50k cars in front of their $3.5 million houses. That says a lot.

      • Exorcist on 16/03/2018 - 09:54

        I thought 300k a year is a lot? Could you elaborate on why people with 300k income cant afford 100k cars. It seems they could afford one in four months from a purely mathematical point of view

        • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2018 - 10:25

          $300k household income is decent, but it’s certainly not anywhere close to wealthy. With a $300k household income realistically you should have other priorities than $100k cars. It’s pretty unlikely that someone with a $300k household income would have enough liquid income to purchase a $100k car, and frankly, getting a car on finance is just dumb, unless your job allows salary sacrifice concessions. After mortgage, different types of insurance, school fees, investments and general living expenses, there isn’t a lot left over from a $300k family income.

        • stirlo on 16/03/2018 - 17:57

          You’ll lose close enough to 50% in tax so you’re now at 8 months…
          Then say you have a mortgage repayments of around 25% of income, this becomes 10 months…

          Then you have health insurance, bills, car rego etc of another 10K a year, that’s now 11 months…

          Don’t forget food, entertainment, a yearly holiday, let’s say another $25k per year, the cars now taking 13 months savings…

          You’re going to replace your car in 3 years when it’s old so it’s now costing you over a third of your earnings in that time….

          Then remember we haven’t considered any savings, investments, children, school fees, 2nd car for your partner in these calcs.

          You’ll be living a comfortable life but you’d probably have a much nicer one (especially in retirement) if you decided to buy a $50k car and invested an extra $50k instead

        • Exorcist on 16/03/2018 - 18:16

          @stirlo: Fair enough if we are talking about pretax income. It's hard for me to imagine families that take in 300k after tax are having a real hard time. Also I thought people on Ozbargain would think a nicer car is a much better (or less bad) investment than a kid?

    • fossilfuel on 14/03/2018 - 17:14

      If people are too stupid to not have a budget and take it upon themselves to manage their own finances then that's their problem. I sit there and look at people who have household incomes of 300K and are in massive amounts of debt and live pay cheque to pay cheque because they blow their money on ridiculous cr@p like $100,000 dollar cars they don't need etc.

      That sounds more like a lack of discipline/self-control. Pretty sure that people who make 300k+ are well aware of what a budget is but choose not. They probably believe that 300k won't disappear overnight but with poor financial literacy and skills, it'll definitely disappear overnight.

    • Milkywayss on 15/03/2018 - 17:19

      Although I agree with you otherwise, saying “if people are too stupid to not have a budget and take it upon themselves…that’s their problem” is arrogant. By that reason we shouldn’t teach mathematics or anything in school, because it would be “their problem” they can’t learn or work this out themselves.

    • Zondor on 16/03/2018 - 10:00

      They are kids, everyone has to learn from someone mate.

  • altomic on 14/03/2018 - 10:09
    +10

    Why isn't basic mechanics taught in school?

    • coxjon on 14/03/2018 - 11:05
      +1

      You should have to change a tyre to pass your driving test :p

      • D C on 14/03/2018 - 11:33
        +12

        change a tyre

        Welcome to Sweden or thereabouts, where you have to show you can maintain a car (air, oil, water, blinker fluid etc). Half of the people fail the first test.

        Meanwhile in Australia I've seen people happily driving down the freeway with flat tyres…

        • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 12:20
          +4

          I wonder if one of the reasons they fail the test because it's not super common knowledge that they have to ask really persistently and aggressively for the blinker fluid at the servo or parts shop, otherwise they won't give it to you?

        • D C on 14/03/2018 - 14:29

          @c0balt: I stocked up on blinker fluid years ago, I can't tell you where to get it. Maybe ask the Lucas blokes, they know where to get the obscure stuff: http://www.keithbloom.com/vgvanilla/discussion/4/lucas-repla….

          Blinker fluid is universal, unlike wiring smoke. Japanese cars need different stuff, and the 'magic smoke' that escapes from electronics when the fail is different again.

          On a side note, if you cause an accident in Sweden (and other places) and damage something like a sign or guard rail, they make you pay for it.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:41
          +5

          @D C:

          Thanks for that! I lost all my blinker fluid when my 710 cap popped off.

        • Save Medicare on 14/03/2018 - 18:59

          BMW runflats

        • D C on 14/03/2018 - 19:42

          @Save Medicare:

          BMW runflats

          I didn't realise all brands of car came with those. The things you learn.

          Anyway, are they supposed to make that much noise?

        • Save Medicare on 14/03/2018 - 20:00

          @D C:
          BMW is probably one of the only ones that do. You also save money when you buy BMW because you don't have to refill your blinker fluid as often so it's a win win

        • D C on 14/03/2018 - 22:40

          @Save Medicare:

          BMW is probably one of the only ones that do.

          So BMW are the only cars to have BMW run flats. Huh, how surprising.

        • Duram on 16/03/2018 - 08:02

          I have been one of those people with a flat tyre driving down the freeway lol.

        • buckster on 17/03/2018 - 20:44

          @Save Medicare: I think you're wrong, my understanding is that it is very important to change your BMW blinker fluid twice as regularly as other cars, because of the widespread problems with blinker function in BMWs.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:43
      +2

      Why isn't basic mechanics taught in school?

      Mechanics or motor mechanics?

    • OzzyOzbourne on 16/03/2018 - 17:27

      That's what men are for, we have to work it out ourselves or pay someone else to do it. As well as the equal share of household chores for the sake of equality.

  • altomic on 14/03/2018 - 10:09
    +14

    Why isn't basic housekeeping taught in school?

  • mskeggs on 14/03/2018 - 10:09
    +22

    Financial literacy is taught extensively in Australian schools.
    There are various parts of the curriculum that include it. Right now, my yr9 kid is learning how to do a tax return, and he just learnt about compound interest.
    I know the senior teachers use the example of calculating and comparing phone plans to outright purchases as an exercise, for example.
    The gov has an extensive site on financial literacy, including comprehensive teacher resources including lesson plans and classroom resources that ties in with the curriculum.
    https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/

    I think like a lot of things, if you doze through class you might miss bits, so I don't know how you can ensure that a significant part of the population doesn't remain ignorant.

    • phocus on 14/03/2018 - 10:14
      +8

      Is this all schools?

      Because I don't remember doing anything of the sort. Good to see some schools are taking it up

      • rompastompa on 14/03/2018 - 10:42
        +28

        Perhaps you didn't phocus? ;)

      • mskeggs on 14/03/2018 - 10:47
        +10

        Not trying to be rude, but whether your school failed to follow the published curriculum, or you yourself don't remember isn't good grounds to make the claim "why Is Personal Finance Not Taught in High Schools?".

        I went to school in NSW in the 1980s, and I have had 4 kids in school since 2005, so I claim some authority on what kids are actually taught.
        I can specifically remember learning:
        - in primary school, how to handle money, how to deposit and withdraw money from a bank, how simple interest works, why we have tax.
        - in junior secondary (I never studied Economics or Commerce, so this was via maths/science/english/social science), how compound interest works, how to calculate loan repayments, how progressive taxation works, how to fill in a tax return, how gambling works and how to calculate odds, how lay-by works(!), how to fill in a cheque(!!), how to draw up a budget, what the sharemarket is and a bit about foreign currencies.

        I haven't got access to historical curriculum documents to show where these things appeared in the syllabus in those days, but you can see modern docs here:
        https://syllabus.nesa.nsw.edu.au/
        You can also review the life skills outcomes by subject, I suggest 7-10 maths as a good start:
        https://syllabus.nesa.nsw.edu.au/mathematics/mathematics-k10…

        The Moneysmart site I linked to shows where the topics they cover appear in the different subject curriculums:
        Here by topic and by year:
        https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/teaching/teaching-resources#!y…
        And by life skills outcome in much more detail (e.g. here for budgeting in yr9&10: https://static.moneysmart.gov.au/teaching/resources/curricul…)

        I don't know about the 1960s or 1970s directly, but I have seen my Dad's maths book from QLD in the 1950s and it had a section on calculating interest, so I would suggest teaching some level of financial literacy has been a constant for many years.

        • phocus on 14/03/2018 - 11:00

          Not rude at all. You are probably right, it is getting taught but people choose not to take it in.

          But if there is a large population that don't understanding basic finances. Does that mean it needs to be taught in a more effective manner? Its not really teaching if the person doesnt learn right? Maybe people don't learn at that age because they don't find it applicable right then and there.

        • mskeggs on 14/03/2018 - 11:04
          +2

          @phocus:

          Maybe people don't learn at that age because they don't find it applicable right then and there.

          I think this is very true. My yr9 kid is bored out of his skull learning about tax.
          But how do you teach it between when people get an income but before they sign up for their first car loan? Even then, I would wager a majority aren't interested, it is only a few years later when they are paying $600 a month for a car now worth $2000 that they wake up to the need to understand this stuff (guess who I used as an example!)

        • knobbs on 14/03/2018 - 12:10

          I would have to agree with phocus here. My school didn't teach anything about tax or gambling or filling in cheques, let alone budgets. What we did get in maths B and C were how to calculate basic/compounding interest. That was the height of our 'financial learning'. I would have loved to actually learn about those things, albeit now not sure back then.

          It seems my school was too busy forcing religion down our throats.

          (This is a private school in Brisbane, graduated in 2008)

        • c0balt on 14/03/2018 - 12:30

          @knobbs:

          Did your school offer finance subjects? If so, why didn't you choose them if they were available and you loved the subject area so much?

        • knobbs on 14/03/2018 - 12:47

          @c0balt: Yes they have a business subject. I would have loved to do it, but as I wanted to do Engineering at university I had to pick the subjects that would meet all the eligibility criteria and give me the best chance to get in. I would have loved to do business, history, geo, PE, shop (wood working) but had to stick with what got me into the uni degree.

        • [Deactivated] on 14/03/2018 - 15:47
          -1

          This is right. If you can’t pick up the basics taught to you in high school, the only real excuse for not understanding basic day to day finance is that you are stupid. A lot of people are stupid, a specific class isn’t going to help them.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 14/03/2018 - 15:53
          +1

          @knobbs:

          forcing religion down our throats.

          Is that what they called it?

        • mskeggs on 14/03/2018 - 17:40
          +1

          @Scrooge McDuck:
          Username checked out.

        • kingmw on 14/03/2018 - 20:04

          @phocus: The problem is most people learn money management from their parents who as we know a large percentage will have poor understanding of basic finances. We can only educated the children (due to compulsory school attendance0 and hope that they will remember the basics for the future and when they teach their children. But we are a few generations from that ideal world…

        • kingmw on 14/03/2018 - 20:08

          @Burnertoasty: The reason most people don't understand is not because they are stupid but probably a combination of boredom, laziness (a lot of my smart friends are in this category), tiredness (working full time but I tell them that this is a poor excuse), FOMO culture or wanting instant gratification now, procrastination (this is massive) and availability to pay an accountant to do their taxes. This is just naming a few and I'm sure there is a lot more than that….

        • [Deactivated] on 14/03/2018 - 20:44

          @kingmw: So what you're saying is that your friends are stupid, and you're too stupid to realise it?

        • belongsinforums on 15/03/2018 - 00:03

          @knobbs: you did gambling in primary school when you learned about probability. just because you don't remember, it doesn't mean you didn't do it

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