Advice Needed with a PayPal Case

optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 11:48
Last edited 18/05/2018 - 16:57 by 1 other user

Hi Ozbargainers,
Note the scammer is from QLD, I'm from NSW. Also, I sent the money on 28th of March. (yeah that's how slow PayPal are)
Note- If you ever want to call PayPal don't call the +61 2 8223 9500 number Call the one that starts with 1800.. I waited two hours for a ghost to pick up the phone.

I recently purchased 3 computer parts of a FB group.

A cooler, a GTX 1060, and a power supply totalling $600 shipped.
Instead, I received an AMD graphics card from 2010($5), a DVD reader ($5) and a hard drive($10).

So I went through the PayPal's process.
Long story short, they finally provided me with a shipping address to return the goods.

I shipped AMD card, dvd reader and hard drive back to the address PayPal provided.
Provided them with a digital receipt.
2 weeks later. There is no reply from PayPal.
It turns out the address was wrong. (I know that I got scammed but the shitty thing is PayPal are not doing anything about it) It cause the scammer provided them with a fake address.

So today, I received an email stating,

I realise that you're not satisfied with the outcome of this dispute. Our claims process is an arbitration service we offer to help resolve disagreements between buyers and sellers, but as you can imagine, it's extremely difficult for us to reach a decision that satisfies all parties.

We deal with all cases objectively and with the intention of making a fair decision based on verifiable information which is available at the time.

Ultimately this isn't an adequate substitute for a constructive dialogue between you and the other party involved. I would suggest this remains your best option for a satisfactory outcome.

PayPal is saying it not our fault that the address they sent was wrong even though.
If the scammer sent his real address, I would have not my money back.
What I am salty about it the fact that, they provided me with the wrong address and they are saying it's my problem now, go talk to the scammer and work it out.

I've already made two reports: (PayPal would accept only accept a report by The Internet Crime Complaint Center (www.ic3.gov))

NSW police (They have better things to do)
Scamwatchasutralia (I'm sure they won't do anything)

Is this a court matter? (if so, where do I start?)

Thanks :)

Note to anyone doing online transactions.

Ask for a photo of their id or some sort.
Get them to take a photo of the actual package and items inside. Most importantly a photo where the items are being shipped.
Screenshot all conversations with the buyer.
Get a copy of the digital receipt. If not tracking number will do.
If scammed and you're protected via PayPal
Be patient with PayPal, if you have any questions call them. they take ages to reply via email
When shipping the items back take many photos of the package and the details (this is for, if they provided PayPal with a wrong address)
Get the post office to send you a digital receipt. (note on the digital receipt with Post Australia, they only provide the postcode of where the items going)
Best wishes

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ShannonN on 18/05/2018 - 12:01

+4

Your post is really hard to read and way to long and doesn't quite make sense.

I take it rather than being scammed by seller you were sent the wrong order and had to chase paypal for a return address etc and now wish to claim return postage on items that wern't yours?

"I’m going to have to pick it up from the post office".

Pick up what precisely? Your original order?

Please do a shorter post a TL;DR would be best
- D C on 18/05/2018 - 14:02
  
  +3
  
  I take it rather than being scammed by seller
  
  Don't fret, he's been scammed.
  
  Found bargain on FB.
  FB scammer sent junk.
  Junk returned to fake address.
  OP's junk returned but he'd prefer the cash.
  Paypal says eh, shit happens.
  - [Deactivated] on 18/05/2018 - 19:19
    
    Mmmmmm. That haiku.
    - D C on 18/05/2018 - 23:52
      
      +10
      
      That haiku
      
      Ooh, there's a thought. We could have a contest, prize is OP's new junk (he pays shipping).
      
      Many parts so cheap found
      The Facebook seller not sound
      Oh no it's a scam!
      
      I prefer limericks because even if there aren't any people expect rude words:
      
      There was a young man who tried,
      "I've saved a few quid", he cried,
      The scammer sent junk,
      And then did a bunk,
      PayPal refund denied.
      
      (Sorry OP.)
    - [Deactivated] on 19/05/2018 - 00:00
      
      +6
      
      @D C:
      Paid for ten sixty
      Instead got an A M D
      Sad face, not happy
      
      Gaming card he bargained for
      Bought online instead of gaming store
      Some crap he got
      The rest are shot
      Will he learn or go back for more?
    - D C on 19/05/2018 - 01:34
      
      +4
      
      @tshow: And I see you've added the limerick.
      
      I don't care for 'The rest are shot' line, it's a repeat of the above one. How about 'Happy he was not' instead?
      
      Well done, we shall await the judges decision.
    - optionalpotato101 on 19/05/2018 - 01:53
      
      +2
      
      @D C: ya’ll savages
    - Quantumcat on 19/05/2018 - 18:00
      
      +2
      
      @D C: Can I have a go?
      
      A guy buys from Facebook
      It's junk when he takes a look
      His method of pay
      Gave the scammer a way
      To keep his money just like a crook
      
      Although this would be more appropriate if he'd used a bank transfer
    - [Deactivated] on 19/05/2018 - 21:19
      
      @D C:
      Was going for 4 syllables.
    - D C on 20/05/2018 - 21:29
      
      @tshow:
      
      'Happy he's not' ?
    - [Deactivated] on 20/05/2018 - 22:01
      
      @D C:
      :( You're obviously more lyrically inclined than I am.
Yummy on 18/05/2018 - 12:10

+3

You got scammed OP. They dupe you with wrong items & wrong return address.

Always face to face when buying stuff from FB/Gumtree. Not sure why Paypal gives you US site, maybe you bought it from oversea seller?
- optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 12:54
  
  Nope, he's from QLD. The Facebook page was PC Parts sell/buy/trade. One of my biggest mistakes ever.
PissLUR on 18/05/2018 - 12:14

+6

100% scammed.

shouldnt have transacted. paypal outside ebay/established businesses is useless.
- optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 12:56
  
  When I was on phone with Paypal. They're like "Don't worry, we cover transactions over facebook"
  - Hybroid on 18/05/2018 - 13:37
    
    +1
    
    ONLY if it was purchased via the Goods/Services payment option apparently. If it's not, you're out of luck and Paypal don't need to do anything.
hashtagbargain on 18/05/2018 - 12:30

+1

Try a charge back through your credit card (even if you used paypal)
- vinni9284 on 18/05/2018 - 12:46
  
  +1
  
  I don't thank Banks will intervene if a PayPal has been involved/case has been opened. RE: PayPal terms and conditions.
  - optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 12:50
    
    +1
    
    Yes, that's true. Worth the shot though.
    - vinni9284 on 18/05/2018 - 12:55
      
      Totally agree. Exhaust every avenue!
    - Kangal on 18/05/2018 - 17:14
      
      +1
      
      @vinni9284:
      I'm waiting for further development, the people have a right to know!
  - ozzpete on 18/05/2018 - 13:03
    
    +5
    
    Banks can still intervene. I have essentially won a paypal case, and still had chargeback forced against me (for goods I delivered already) . I was 100% in the right, and could prove it beyond reasonable doubt, but still buyer was able to force cashback, and then paypal took the funds from me (and others that got scammed by the buyer) .
    There were a few of us all got scammed by the same buyer, later doing chargeback, and we had very good history of honest transactions through paypal, yet buyer was still able to force chargeback.
    Some of us closed paypal account, to avoid illegitimate chargeback.
    So banks can definitely force chargeback regardless of what PayPal decides or choose to do, or not do
    - vinni9284 on 18/05/2018 - 13:05
      
      +1
      
      Thanks for your info.
      I'm glad that honest people have prevailed.
      Too many scammers out there!
    - Kangal on 18/05/2018 - 17:16
      
      @vinni9284:
      
      No, the honest people failed.
      Even though the buyer was a scammer and tried to PayPal Scam them, the buyer failed the dispute on PayPal but still managed to get his money back via ChargeBack. Essentially stealing the sellers items, or getting them for free.
    - vinni9284 on 18/05/2018 - 18:02
      
      @Kangal:
      
      Thanks Kangal,
      
      My bad, I didn't read that correctly.
      
      Well, I am in a similar dilemma however the seller may be honest but purchased using eBay.
      I will try to be succinct
      
      1 - Purchased an amp for $2400 last Friday with immediate payment. He did sent me a laybuy slip/receipt noting the make and model from an Aussie AV joint. It seems to check out (same amp worth $4.5k RRP new ~ $3.8K possibly with haggling)
      2 - Seller said he will ship the following Monday.
      3 - Requested my number and called me on Monday and said that he shifted and all of his stuff was in a container. (To be fair, after purchase he did say he will go to the container to pick up) The container got flooded and apologized for the inconvenience. Sent a pic with the amp boxed on the back of his car. Box did look like it has been wet before. He did give me his mobile and contact him if there were issues.
      4 - Asked me to lodge a dispute with PayPal so I can get a refund. Well, obviously he spent the money and was relying on PayPal to overdraw his account. He said for me not to give him a negative feedback. I haven't done thus far. (He has 100% feedback score ~ 138ppl. One however has noted, no communication and hasn't received item however was positive. Possibly got refund from PayPal)
      6 - So far no money received yet .. a week later.
      7 - eBay will step in on the 21/05/18.
      8 - Hope I will get my money back considering PayPal boasts 100% money back guarantee from eBay transactions with an asterisk next to it.
      9 - Btw, I have not received anything hence the dispute is over nothing recieved.
      
      Even if I get my money back, I was just thinking to myself, was this guy legit or he just wanted a quick loan knowing that PayPal with thaw back the cash eventually.
      
      I am also imagining, if he just sent a box full of bricks (amp weight 40KGS) to my address with a tracking number. Would I have a leg to stand on if i made a dispute?
      
      I think lesson learnt.
      
      Anything over $500 buy from a reputable shop and not from a private seller via eBay. Even if that means I get thrashed the extra costs. At least I get the item with full warranty and no stressing over results from disputes where my money has been already spent by the seller hoping for PayPal to intervene for refund 2 weeks later.
      
      Your/any feedback is greatly appreciated.
      
      Cheers
    - ozzpete on 18/05/2018 - 20:09
      
      +1
      
      @vinni9284:
      
      3 - Requested my number and called me on Monday and said
      never communicate off the record when someone aaked to talk off ebay, just say politely. Please keep everything in ebay messages.
      Once you go off record, outside of ebay, you're really opening yourself up to a huge risk. ie. The other party can claim you sorted it all out offline after you gave your number to talk.
      Its up to you of course, but why would you give possitive feedback just because the person told you to ??
      If they are a scammer, you not reporting it and not leaving negative feedback means the next person will get duped, and the next person, and it just continues until someone speaks up and leaves honest feedback.
      get everything back to communicating on record, via ebay messages preferably, or it least in email, where what was said or promised cannot be disputed
    - vinni9284 on 19/05/2018 - 10:25
      
      @ozzpete:
      
      Thanks for your advice.
      
      Cheers
    - yvesmpicard on 19/05/2018 - 12:29
      
      @vinni9284: PayPal is Numba ONE (1) scammer !!!!
Dave Id on 18/05/2018 - 12:49

+3

https://www.fos.org.au/
- optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 13:30
  
  Will definitely consider calling them if PayPal doesn't do their job.
ozzpete on 18/05/2018 - 12:52

+2

Replied with Post Australia’s delivery status. “Attempted delivery - incorrect address”

This should be sufficient evidence to make PayPal side with you. Paypal/ebay can check online through australia post website, and they can bring up item number, and see that either seller gave incorrect address or sellee refused to accept when postman came (seller might have lied and said to postman, wrong address, to thwart return).

I believe, if you must, go through your bank for return of your money. If you have to do this (hopefully you wont have to) , then one somewhat guaranteed way to return, is bank can have you return the package directly to PayPal. Paypal will hate that you did this though, and may block your account or place restrictions. However, if you go through bank and do mastercard charge-back etc, then return the item directly to paypal office, paypal will accept it, they will not refuse delivery and say wrong address etc. Then you have proof to show your bank, that item has been returned, and charge-back through bank should go through just fine. Paypal cannot stop bank chargebacks, and they will chase the seller for the money paypal would now be out of pocket.
try to sort out with PayPal though amicably, with your argument (and evidence) showing that you returned item, and seller either gave wrong address, or refused return and told postman its the incorrect address .
If all negotiations with PayPal directly, fail… Then go to bank. Send item directly to PayPal for return.
You will not be covered for your postage costs, as that is an ebay guarantee thing, and PayPal aren't responsible for returning MORE money than what they took from you , you could only get back exactly what paypal took from you, and no more, and it should not be less.
Just hint for future, if it seems too good to be true… IT PROBABLY IS A SCAM, especially on facebook You can try to do research, such as google the company name and scam, but that won't always save you, but much of the time it will, because someone else has already been scammed, then posted online about it. Similarly if it isn't a scam, and the company has been around , there will most likely be info on Internet about it saying it can be trusted .
- optionalpotato101 on 18/05/2018 - 13:18
  
  +1
  
  I just hanged up the phone and recalled the 1800.. number and they picked up instantly. They said they will reopen the case. They also asked for a photo of the package and the shipping details on it. Luckily I did take a photo when I was shipping it back. If this doesn't work, I will for sure go to the Bank.
  - ozzpete on 18/05/2018 - 17:13
    
    +1
    
    If this doesn't work, I will for sure go to the Bank.
    
    If it comes to it, or if you can politely slip it in during convo with PayPal, you could mention I would prefer not to, but if I have to, I will open a chargeback case at my bank .
    They really don't want you opening a case with the bank, because this takes things out of PayPal's hands, they have no control then, if the bank orders the money back, the money gets returned… PayPal can question it and can argue it with the bank, however with the evidence you have, your bank will almost certainly take your side. So you will almosy definitely be fine either way.
    just the mention that you might go to bank for chargeback if you have to, might give PayPal a nudge to do the right thing without having to go that far
    - optionalpotato101 on 19/05/2018 - 12:10
      
      Update:
      I just went to the post office to collect the package. They said they don’t have it and only keep returned packages for two weeks max. They told me to call 13 post. I asked if it covered by insurance. She replied “did you buy insurance?” Which I didn’t not.
      
      Also PayPal replied with,
      We are unable to process your appeal for this case. The proof of shipment that you provided did not sufficiently follow our guidelines.
      
      To be considered valid, proof of shipment must be an official document from the shipping company or a copy of the actual shipping label on the package that shows the destination address and the shipping company's stamp to verify the shipment date.
      
      The digital recipet Post Australia provided, only had the post code. The photo, I sent to PayPal had my own shipping Label and even Post Australia was like we go off your shipping label(in regards to what PayPal said^)
    - ozzpete on 19/05/2018 - 19:45
      
      +1
      
      @optionalpotato101:
      
      They said they don’t have it and only keep returned packages for two weeks max.
      
      How long did you leave it at the post office for after returned ?
      Call up Australia Post and hopefully you can track it down. Then take photos, and send to PayPal.
      Contact PayPal and ask that they keep the case open while you provide further information.
      Also, have you sent all and any photos and any evidence you have to paypal. Even if your evidence does not exactly fit within their exact guidelines still email it to them nonetheless, to be considered in their decisions of the case.
      I usually sort such situations out via phone, which you could try my approach. I am very good at rational and logical argumentative, and explain my case in such a manner that a reasonable person would side with me, and use persuasive dialogue, you might have to try with more than 1 person, multiple phone calls, but once you have someone on the other end of the phone that believes you, empathizes with you, and wants to help, then they can make things happen, even if it is not exactly 'standard protocol'
Broke-Ken on 18/05/2018 - 14:14

+10

-Ask for a photo of their id or some sort.

In this day and age, with identity thief and all. Even as a legit seller, I wouldn't send photos of my ID to strangers.
srhardy on 19/05/2018 - 08:00

+2

do a chargeback through your credit card but if you used a bank account then your screwed i believe
the Unforgiven on 19/05/2018 - 15:16

+1

do you still have the original package? did it have an address on it from the seller? it would still have a postage stamp from the post office. ring that post office & see if they have surveillance? was the return address of the wrong products the same as the address where you sent the items back?
cansydint on 24/05/2018 - 13:44

+1

have you called paypal?

I've had an incident like this when i purchased my partner a handbag. Bag was fake, sent from china instead of New York, then the return address was fake.

I never posted the item back, i called paypal and explained everything. I got a refund immediately and got to keep the fake handbag lol

The online system was slow and time consuming and it appeared that they wanted me to post the item back to a strange address that did not turn up on google. Calling them had the ball rolling and i have a good history with using paypal so they had my back immediately.
optionalpotato101 on 06/06/2018 - 18:30

update:
Paypal replied with:
At the very least, your documentation must include:

The date the item was sent; and
An official acceptance by the shipper, such as a postmark or online status. (Status that shows the item was delivered is also acceptable.)
It must also include either:

The recipient's delivery address, showing at least the state, city and postcode (or international equivalent); or
A receipt from Australia Post showing at least the recipient's suburb, city or postcode (or international equivalent).

I ended up paying for return shipping for the items at the postoffice. I just needed a photo of the shipping label with the tracking number. Paypal declined the photo originally. Then I explained to them that Post Australia go off the shipping label I put. Also I got Post Australia to sent me an email stating the address was invalid which had a significant impact to the case. At first, they declined both forms of verification. Until, I called for like for the third time and explaining my situation once again. Now I'm lodging for shipping fees. Wondering if they cover for both shipping transactions?
Thank you, Fellow Ozbargainers

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